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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Taking a crack at Scout (ranger subclass) (PEACH)



RobD
2015-03-01, 12:23 PM
I've always been a fan of the idea of the highly mobile, stealthy, and magic-less view of the ranger, surviving on his wits and skills alone.
The goal of this design was to replace the ranger's spellcasting with a useful, flavorful abilities that tied in nicely with what the ranger already does, while still being distinct from the other two archetypes. Any advice offered would be welcome.

Unlike other ranger archetypes, the Scout is chosen at level one, as some of its abilities replace core Ranger features.

1st:Sneak Attack At first level, a scout gains the Sneak Attack ability. This ability functions like the Rogue's sneak attack, except that it only progresses every 5 levels (at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level), for a total of 5d6 extra damage. This ability replaces the Ranger's spell-casting ability.

2nd:Accelerated Movement The Scout's land speed increases by 10 feet.

3rd: Keen Mind The Scout gains “Keen Mind” as a bonus feat. This feat replaces the “Primeval Awareness” ability.

3rd: Trapmaker By Spending 5 minutes, a Scout can build a rudimentary trap. This trap targets a single character, and has no reset (the trap is destroyed when it goes off). The Scout chooses the location of the trap, as well as the trigger.
The DC to spot this trap using Wisdom (Perception) is equal to 8+the Scout's Proficiency bonus+ the Scout's Wisdom modifier. If the trap is triggered, the target must make a Dexterity save of a DC equal to 8+the scout's Proficiency bonus+the scout's intelligence modifier. A successful save avoids all of the traps effects.
On a failed save, the trap deals damage equal to 2d10+the Scout's Proficiency bonus. This damage is either piercing or bludgeoning (chosen at the time of construction). In addition, the trap imposes one of the following conditions on the target (also chosen at the time of construction): Poison, Prone, or Blind. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to half the Scout's Proficiency bonus (but can be ended early through spells, abilities, etc). A scout may construct one trap, after which he must take a short or a long rest before he can build another.

7th: Foe Hunter A scout has advantage on attacks made against his favored enemy, as well as to any Insight checks made against them.

11th: Improved trapmaker The damage done by a scout's trap increases to 4d10+the Scout's proficiency bonus. It may deal 'slashing' damage. The list of effects a trap can inflict now includes “restrained” and “unconscious.”

15th Combat Reflexes A scout gains a number of bonus reactions equal to his Dexterity modifier. These reactions can only be used to make opportunity attacks.

Leuku
2015-03-01, 07:12 PM
Unlike other ranger archetypes, the Scout is chosen at level one, as some of its abilities replace core Ranger features.

1st:Sneak Attack At first level, a scout gains the Sneak Attack ability. This ability functions like the Rogue's sneak attack, except that it only progresses every 5 levels (at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level), for a total of 5d6 extra damage. This ability replaces the Ranger's spell-casting ability.

Shouldn't it be 2nd level? Because a Ranger gains spellcasting at 2nd level.


2nd:Accelerated Movement The Scout's land speed increases by 10 feet.

Why does this come online so soon?


3rd: Keen Mind The Scout gains “Keen Mind” as a bonus feat. This feat replaces the “Primeval Awareness” ability.

Keen Mind is definitely better than Primeval Awareness. Not a fair trade.


3rd: Trapmaker By Spending 5 minutes, a Scout can build a rudimentary trap. This trap targets a single character, and has no reset (the trap is destroyed when it goes off). The Scout chooses the location of the trap, as well as the trigger.
The DC to spot this trap using Wisdom (Perception) is equal to 8+the Scout's Proficiency bonus+ the Scout's Wisdom modifier. If the trap is triggered, the target must make a Dexterity save of a DC equal to 8+the scout's Proficiency bonus+the scout's intelligence modifier. A successful save avoids all of the traps effects.
On a failed save, the trap deals damage equal to 2d10+the Scout's Proficiency bonus. This damage is either piercing or bludgeoning (chosen at the time of construction). In addition, the trap imposes one of the following conditions on the target (also chosen at the time of construction): Poison, Prone, or Blind. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to half the Scout's Proficiency bonus (but can be ended early through spells, abilities, etc). A scout may construct one trap, after which he must take a short or a long rest before he can build another.

What are the limits of the trigger? Also, Poison, Prone, and Blind are not sufficiently equal imposed conditions. Poisoned ranks first, Blind a close second, and Prone a far last. People can prone at-will. Blinding can be achieved through circumstantial creativity and spells, as well with poison. I don't have my book on me currently, so I'll make change recommendations later.


7th: Foe Hunter A scout has advantage on attacks made against his favored enemy, as well as to any Insight checks made against them.


That's a bit early for a permanent advantage feature. The only thing that comes close is the Barbarian's Advantage on Initiative feature, which isn't that big of a deal. But permanent advantage, even if it's only on one's favored enemy, is excessive.


11th: Improved trapmaker The damage done by a scout's trap increases to 4d10+the Scout's proficiency bonus. It may deal 'slashing' damage. The list of effects a trap can inflict now includes “restrained” and “unconscious.”

Obviously unconscious is the best. It virtually eliminates the target from the fight until he can save. Unconscious relatively combines the negative effects of all of the other types of conditions you can apply with this trap.


15th Combat Reflexes A scout gains a number of bonus reactions equal to his Dexterity modifier. These reactions can only be used to make opportunity attacks.

Heeeeell no. If an enemy triggers an opportunity attack from the scout, then this feature means the scout can make up to Six Opportunity Attacks immediately. Sure that would expend every reaction the scout has, but that's only until the start of his next turn, and that many attacks may probably outright kill most any enemy.

Permanent advantage against your favored enemy would be a capstone feature, and you give it to the scout at 7th level. Combat Reflexes breaks a major component of the game: # of Reactions per round.

Argothair
2015-03-01, 07:44 PM
I've always been a fan of the idea of the highly mobile, stealthy, and magic-less view of the ranger, surviving on his wits and skills alone.
The goal of this design was to replace the ranger's spellcasting with a useful, flavorful abilities that tied in nicely with what the ranger already does, while still being distinct from the other two archetypes. Any advice offered would be welcome.

I like this project -- this is a good project and you should keep working on it!



Unlike other ranger archetypes, the Scout is chosen at level one, as some of its abilities replace core Ranger features.

1st:Sneak Attack At first level, a scout gains the Sneak Attack ability. This ability functions like the Rogue's sneak attack, except that it only progresses every 5 levels (at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level), for a total of 5d6 extra damage. This ability replaces the Ranger's spell-casting ability.


I'm not seeing the connection here to the fluff -- why are Scouts good at sneak attacking? Why can't they cast any spells? Having a few spells for moving rapidly through difficult terrain, concealing yourself in the underbrush, etc. could be a key part of a Scout's repertoire. And while there are some times when a Scout would want to try to ambush an enemy scout or lone enemy sentry, for the most part the Scout's job is to run ahead, gather information, and get that information back to the party without being detected. If the Scout has to be good at Sneak Attacking, I would rather that ability kick in at a later level, around Level 7 or Level 10, rather than kicking in at Level 1 and removing the Scout's ability to cast spells.




2nd:Accelerated Movement The Scout's land speed increases by 10 feet.



Love it. Good pick.




3rd: Keen Mind The Scout gains “Keen Mind” as a bonus feat. This feat replaces the “Primeval Awareness” ability.

3rd: Trapmaker By Spending 5 minutes, a Scout can build a rudimentary trap. This trap targets a single character, and has no reset (the trap is destroyed when it goes off). The Scout chooses the location of the trap, as well as the trigger.
The DC to spot this trap using Wisdom (Perception) is equal to 8+the Scout's Proficiency bonus+ the Scout's Wisdom modifier. If the trap is triggered, the target must make a Dexterity save of a DC equal to 8+the scout's Proficiency bonus+the scout's intelligence modifier. A successful save avoids all of the traps effects.
On a failed save, the trap deals damage equal to 2d10+the Scout's Proficiency bonus. This damage is either piercing or bludgeoning (chosen at the time of construction). In addition, the trap imposes one of the following conditions on the target (also chosen at the time of construction): Poison, Prone, or Blind. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to half the Scout's Proficiency bonus (but can be ended early through spells, abilities, etc). A scout may construct one trap, after which he must take a short or a long rest before he can build another.



The Trapmaker ability is well-written. I don't think Scouts should be forced to take "Keen Mind" -- many of them will certainly want to, but if someone wants to roleplay a Scout with a poor memory, that could be hilarious. I think you should try to write your own perception-style ability here, rather than just forcing the player to take one particular feat off of the standard list. If I really want Keen Mind, I can get it at Level 4, anyway.




7th: Foe Hunter A scout has advantage on attacks made against his favored enemy, as well as to any Insight checks made against them.




Again, not sure what the connection is to scouting on the 'advantage to attacks' part. I like the advantage on Insight checks against favored enemies. Maybe just give advantage on all attempts to track or predict the moves of any quarry, favored or otherwise? Or advantage to attack rolls against targets that have not yet seen you?



11th: Improved trapmaker The damage done by a scout's trap increases to 4d10+the Scout's proficiency bonus. It may deal 'slashing' damage. The list of effects a trap can inflict now includes “restrained” and “unconscious.”

15th Combat Reflexes A scout gains a number of bonus reactions equal to his Dexterity modifier. These reactions can only be used to make opportunity attacks.
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These are fine, although as the other commenter pointed out, "unconscious" is too strong, and 5-6 reactions is too many. Maybe instead of an unconscious trap, allow an anti-magic trap at Level 11, that prevents the victim from casting spells until she makes her save? Also, instead of bonus opportunity attacks, maybe the Scout gains immunity to being surprised, plus one extra action on a surprise round?

Yagyujubei
2015-03-02, 10:29 AM
i took a quick crack at this a while back trying to bring some of the flavor from the pathfinder class on the official forums for someone looking for ideas.

3-Skirmish Tactics: Each turn, if you move 15 feet or more you do an additional 1d6 damage per attack, and gain +2AC until the start of your next turn. In addition you gain 5 feet of movement speed, and an additional 5 feet at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.

7-Reconnaissance Expert: Gain expertise in the Perception and Investigation skills. additionally, you have advantage on rolls to detect and disarm traps.

11-Hard Target: You gain the Evasion skill and Opportunity Attacks from creatures you have attacked this turn are made at disadvantage.

15-Pathfinder: You gain the benefits of Natural Explorer in all terrains and cannot be tracked through mundane means. Additionally, Your attacks on surprised targets are automatic critical hits.

Argothair
2015-03-02, 10:40 AM
Sounds like fun! I would totally play a character in that subclass. :-)

Yagyujubei
2015-03-02, 10:55 AM
yeah I've actually run the numbers and while it's strong, it doesn't break the game or anything, while playing as a sort of cross between a ranger and a rogue that likes to move around alot and hit multiple targets per fight.