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TSGames
2007-04-09, 08:54 PM
I happened to have taken a slight interest in the Book of Exalted Deeds and was looking over the Exalted Feats. One of them, "Touch of Golden Ice," looked very nice at first, 1d6 DEX initial damage, 2d6 DEX secondary. I noticed, however, that the save DC was 14. After second or third level, I would imagine that this would effectively make it a rare occurrence that an opponent should fail a save against it, and around and after level ten I should think that only a role of 1 should make them fail.

This makes me raise the question, how high can you raise the DC of poisons(or ravages or whatever) in general? Optionally, I'd like to know how to do it to touch of golden ice, but any poison, ravage or affliction is quite welcome.

I am also aware that many classes allow for use of poisons specifically when coating weapons, and encourage this, I should think that they would be similarly affected by the static and low poison DC's.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-09, 09:18 PM
i seen an assassin poison boosting spell in PHB II. but if someone with exalted feats is ever around an assassin they're probably killing eavh other. in the MM the feat ability focus increases the DC of a special attack by 2, if you could finagle your dm into seeing this as a special attack.

Nebo_
2007-04-09, 09:35 PM
The Cityscape Web enhancement has a new weapon ability that increases save DCs on poison applied to that weapon by its bonus. It also adds +1d6 Sneak attack.

RandomNPC
2007-04-09, 09:41 PM
its some kind of special ability, maybe spell like ability i think, anyway, if it is a SLA then theres a feat that boosts them. other than that i duno, but i do think saves are low, every poison in my games gets a +2, but i don't use them often so it doesn't change much.

Takamari
2007-04-09, 09:53 PM
First, that feat is, IMHO, stupid. No Exhaulted character should be using ANY kind of poison.

That aside, it is a feat and therefore and ability, so Ability Focus from the MMI, I think, should work. I also allow the use of Craft: Alchemy or Craft: Poison to increase the DCs of poisons. You have to hit the brew DC and then for every 5-10 above the DC you roll/x time, you increase the DC by 2. A better way can be found in the L5R d20 Rokugan book, which I dont' have on me at the moment.

Jasdoif
2007-04-09, 09:55 PM
Remember that with a ravage, you add the victim's Charisma bonus to the ability damage dealt. On initial and secondary damage. As well as +1 to damage if the victim is an evil elemental or undead (+2 if an evil outsider or cleric of an evil deity). Many fiends and most dragons have excellent Charisma scores, that single failed save can weaken them a lot (or outright paralyze them).

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-10, 07:15 AM
Yah but those same fiends and dragons are NOT going to fail the save, is the problem. It doesn't matter if the ability would instantly win the fight, if it never works. Better to do a little damage, but more consistently.

Jasdoif
2007-04-10, 01:55 PM
Yah but those same fiends and dragons are NOT going to fail the save, is the problem. It doesn't matter if the ability would instantly win the fight, if it never works. Better to do a little damage, but more consistently.It could be argued that it's no different then getting a critical hit in this case (the natural 1 on the save being the same as a natural 20 on an attack roll, and the actual attack roll being the same as a threat roll).

But that's really not the point. The point here is that with all that damage potential, making it work consistently is simply too strong. Perhaps adding the bonus from Cha/type to the DC instead of the damage? 20% chance of a pit fiend taking the (base) damage then.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-10, 02:10 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't try to argue that it should do massive ability damage AND work all the time. My point is that it would be better to do less damage, and work consistently, than do amazing damage but never work. The former is useful, and a worthwhile choice for a PC. The latter basically sucks.

lord_khaine
2007-04-10, 02:29 PM
i disagree about that, touch of golden ice is a killer feat for a monk, who will be making 4-5 attacks each round at higher lvs, thats 4-5 saves each round, where the roll of 1 that comes up 5% of the time could spell doom for you if your dex score is low.

TSGames
2007-04-10, 05:16 PM
i disagree about that, touch of golden ice is a killer feat for a monk, who will be making 4-5 attacks each round at higher lvs, thats 4-5 saves each round, where the roll of 1 that comes up 5% of the time could spell doom for you if your dex score is low.
Just on that note...
Assuming a high level monk hits with 4 attacks, that requires 4 saves. Also assuming that the target needs a 1 to fail the save. The odds of him passing a save are (19/20)
Therefore the odds of him failing at least one of the saves is approximately 18.549%
I know that that's less than 1 in 5 chance, but it's not that bad. If the monk hits with 5 attacks the odds of his opponent failing the save increase to approximately 22.622%, nearly 1 in 4(or if you prefer 1:3) odds.

I don't thinks it's useless, granted it will(past midrange levels) work only about 1 in 5 times on a full attack. To me it seems that it is basically a less effective(in terms of how often it works) save or be screwed spell that the monk can do infinitely.

JaronK
2007-04-10, 09:52 PM
Yeah, the thing to remember is that a 1 always fails for saves... so you can sort of think of it as a critical hit that does that much damage.

Won't work all the time, but it's great when it does.

JaronK

Aximili
2007-04-10, 10:25 PM
Exactly. A monk with this feat should be worrying simply about hitting his attacks. (and getting as many attacks as possible. TWF and snapkick should be nice bets.)

With 3-5 saves per round, he's gonna fail one of them way before you kill him by regular damage.