View Full Version : Underdark Knight help?

2007-04-09, 09:28 PM
Hi, I'm looking at making a PC (for when someone else is DMing) for our game and have this idea that I might want to try a Knight.

A dark Knight (sorry for the pun) in the evil bastard with honor mould.

I won't get to play the PC too often, so I'm not totally concerned with "Optimal" but I am finding myself a bit stuck on builds, so I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me. Here are the guidelines:

28 point buy,
Core races (and variants), plus Half-Drow and Orogs, and basic Humanoids,
Setting is Underdark (homebrew, more classic Underdark than FR version),
Flaw (1) permitting from the SRD collection.
Core books, PhB2, Dungeonscape, some Feats snipped from here and there, not many but the possibility of pleading with the co-DMs to allow new ones that aren't broken and fit the mood are possible.

I'm looking to do an interesting take on things, rather than just do the standard "spiked chain is über" approach.

Any help appreciated!

2007-04-09, 09:31 PM
If you go a Drow you've got some interesting mounted choices, Giant Spiders and Giant Lizards for example. Drow Society also is very TWF heavy thought which is an odd build at best. I'd be looking at someone like Ryld from R.A. Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen.

2007-04-09, 09:31 PM
I've always liked the idea of a whisper gnome riding on the back of a dire bat in the underdark with a lance.

2007-04-09, 09:34 PM
I'm not sure where Whisper Gnomes are from, but we don't use them to my knowledge.

I'm VERY tempted to go Drow, and maybe with an Elven Courtblade, I'm just a bit worried that I will be too squishy (being first level, due to ECL) to pull it off well.

On the other hand, the flavor and stat bonuses are yummy.

2007-04-09, 10:41 PM
Whisper Gnome is from Races of Stone, basically the same as a regular gnome only with a bonus to dex and con and negs to cha and str with medium size style movement (get that 20ft movement out of here!).

You can use a regular gnome just as well. As for drow, I generally dislike the +2 level adjustment (it's worth it for some races but drow are underpowered for a +2) and the drop in con sucks for a tank/knight build.

Conceptionally I like the idea of a drow on the back of a giant spider or some kind of lizard from the underdark, but when he's laying on his back peppered with arrows dying from his 2 missing hit dice I think of a gnome that would have had one last round to crawl into a hole the drow's large sized mount couldn't fit in or wheel around for a final attack due to the extra hit dice.

2007-04-09, 10:47 PM
mmm... elven double bow with rapid shot and improved rapid shot, then bust out the mounted archery on a spider from the ceiling... mmmmm...

2007-04-09, 11:34 PM
I don't think we use the Elven Double Bow (on account of them being silly), but the archer angle to a more traditional Knight has some definite appeal.

Gah! So many choices! All help appreciated. Or talking me off this ledge. I keep thinking "Yea, but by Level 3-4 he'll be REALLY cool!" but then realizing that this assumes he'll ever get that kinda XP.

(Have I mentioned our chat is looking for DMs? :) )

2007-04-10, 12:27 AM
Umm.. a dire bat is large size... its the size of a large horse...

I like the idea of a mounted archer, when your doing you research have a look at the Mongolian Horse archers they kind of epitomise that kind of swank. Its all about mobility, as a mounted archer in a group your more about trying to create confusion than killing. I'd consider a ranger using the no spells variant from complete warrior and the no animal companion variant from Players Hanbook Two that allows you to flank with ranged weapons.


2007-04-10, 02:01 AM
All good ideas. I made him tonight, and because I am a nerd I will post him here. He's surely not optimal, but he's neat, and that makes me all tingly inside.

Who is this Ceika? I'd love to beg them for an avatar based on my guy.

Magnificently sculpted with classically beautiful Dark Elven features, Evaspiir is an imposing presence, particularly when mounted. Wears the Eilserv colors proudly and looks disdainfully upon those born to lesser races. Keeps his ivory curls close-cropped, highlighting his patrician profile and moody amber eyes. [Strength 14/Charisma 16] Chain Shirt (MW), Buckler (MW), Elven Courtblade (MW).

Evaspiir Eilserv

Dark Elf (Drow) Knight 1

ECL +2, Experience: 3,000

Lawful Evil

Strength 14
Dexterity 18
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 8
Charisma 16

Hit Points: 13

Languages: Drow Sign, Elvish, Undercommon.

Skills: Knowledge (Nobility) 4(+4), Listen 0(+1), Ride 4(+8), Search 0(+2), Spot 0(+1)

Feats: EWP (Elven Courtblade), Weapon Finesse.

Flaw: Meager Fortitude.

Racial Abilities: Darkvision 120', Spell Resistance 12, Immunity to Sleep spells and effects, +2 Saving Throw bonus against Enchantment spells or effects, +2 bonus on Will Saves against spells and spell-like abilities, Spell-Like Abilities (Dancing Lights, Darkness, Faerie Fire 1/day), +2 bonus on (Listen, Search and Spot) checks, Search roll to detect secret doors within 5', Light Blindness. Level Adjustment +2.

Class Abilities: Knight (Fighting Challenge +1, Knight's Challenge, Knight's Code)

Attacks: Base Attack Bonus +1, Melee +3 or +5, Ranged +5

Saves: Fortitude 0(-2), Reflex 0(+4), Will 2(+1)

Equipment: Chain Shirt (MW), Buckler (MW), Elven Courtblade (MW).

Mount: Riding Lizard (Bit and Bridle, Exotic Military Saddle, Saddlebags), Large Steel Shield, Lance, Composite Longbow (MW, +2 Strength).

Consumables: Arrows (20 Regular, 20 Serpentstongue).

Wealth: 10 platinum, 40 gold.

2007-04-10, 07:42 PM
Wouldn't have gone a longbow as you can't use them mounted.

Otherwise Well done, It looks awesome.

Ceika is a friend of mine, PM her with the details of your guy and she'll whip up an Avatar for you.

2007-04-10, 08:33 PM
have you thought of a backstory yet? i would be interested in seeing what you do with her.

2007-04-10, 09:05 PM
Weirdly, according to the rules you CAN use a Composite Longbow mounted, unless there's an Errata I missed. Not a regular Longbow.

And I'll be writing a background in the next day or two before I play him (I have female PCs, but he felt like a guy (see cross-dressing thread for my thoughts on playing cross gender).

Thanks for the people who helped and all! I'm kinda famous in our parts for being neurotic about getting PCs right, so I'll probably be back. :)

2007-04-11, 01:01 PM
Yeah, looks good. Consider carrying a Dagger, in case you get Grappled.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-11, 01:19 PM
You might also want to look into the Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) Prestige Class. If you're looking to Gish, it's a terrific simple option.

In fact, Knight 3/Sorceror 5/Knight Phantom 10/Whateveryouwant 2 is pretty sweet. You have Cha-synergy, decent backup spellage, terrific BAB, and some extra niftiness.

2007-04-11, 07:13 PM
Don't think we use Eberron stuff. Actually, I'm one of two admins on the chat, I'm sure we don't.

You wouldn't believe how much I had to beg my co-admin to allow Factotums. And Swashbucklers are right out. I sulk.

But, I got a nifty new avatar for him today! Thanks, Ceika!


2007-04-12, 01:01 AM
I'd have ruled against the composite longbow as a DM, as the longbow is out and they are treated as the same weapon in regards to feats and proficiencies.

2007-04-12, 01:03 AM
My bad on the Dire bat thing...I don't know why I thought they were medium. The build looks good and pretty fun (I am so very relieved that he's Evil and not CN or god forbid a CG drow fighting against the ways of his people).

2007-04-12, 05:05 AM
I read Tomb of Battle and it had Drow cavalry riding Driders. Heh. Looks like someone completely forgot the fluff.

Sword Spider would make an awesome mount. They're in Monsters of Faerun but sadly weren't updated in Lost Empires of Faerun (which for some reason updated half of Monsters of Faerun even when it was irrelevant, Helmed Horrors and Tomb Trappers I could understand but Baneguard aren't that old). Shouldn't be too out of line though.

Get an Elven Thinblade and a Lance. Repeating crossbow is always good if you're a drow.

Orog is an awesome race but it doesn't fit the Knight thing.

Miles Invictus
2007-04-12, 06:53 AM
Repeating crossbow is always good if you're a drow.

Rapid Reload is better. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27367)

2007-04-12, 02:39 PM
Stormcrow, this is true, but the Composite Longbow weapon description explicitly states it may be used mounted.

If the DMs rule otherwise, I'll switch to Composite Shortbow and not gripe.

2007-04-12, 06:15 PM
I read Tomb of Battle and it had Drow cavalry riding Driders. Heh. Looks like someone completely forgot the fluff.

Traditionally the Driders hate the Drow with a passion that borders on insanity.