Sneak attack on multiple rays (House Rule)

[Ionari]

According to RAW, a spell that produces multiple rays (e.g. scorching rays; I also include multiple orbs, unicorn arrows etc. in this, but I'll refer to them generally as "rays" because I'm primarily thinking of those), even if independently targettable and each subject to a different attack roll, only benefits from sneak attack damage once. This, by contrast to, say, arrows fired from a longbow.

I'm considering a houserule to allow the application of sneak attack damage to multiple rays, with certain adjustments, and would appreciate comments on whether that would be a good thing (primarily from a balance perspective).

I think the RAW is stated as such because multiple rays have a couple of advantages over a slew of arrows or melee attacks: the attack bonus for the rays doesn't erode cumulative -5 for each successive ray, and the whole thing takes a standard action (typically), and not a full round.

So, my houserule would permit the mage the option of casting multiple-ray spells as a full-round action, and perhaps (I'm not yet sure about this feature) apply the cumulative -5 penalty to each successive ray beyond the first. If this option is exercised, each ray will benefit from the sneak attack damage. I.e., if the mage is taking the time and trouble to aim properly at the target's vitals (and accepting the to-hit penalties for multiple aimed attacks as though they were melee attacks), he/she gets the benefit of applying sneak attack damage to each attack that hits.

What do you think - does this make sense? Also, what homebrew feats would be appropriate to mitigate the penalties (in terms of extra casting time and to-hit penalty)? I'm thinking something along the lines of the greater manyshot tree of feats.

[Tack122]

Not very sure about the rules for the use of multiple sneak attacks using arrows during one round.
But for some reason I get the impression that to do multiple sneak attacks you have to have feats. If this is true, make sure the same amount of feats is required for a caster to do the same thing with his rays.

Anything less would be overpowered.

Additionally make sure that all the same penalties are applied to using rays in this manner, not to mention that the stacking -5 for each successive ray should apply to non-sneaky rays.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not very sure about the rules for the use of multiple sneak attacks using arrows during one round.
But for some reason I get the impression that to do multiple sneak attacks you have to have feats. If this is true, make sure the same amount of feats is required for a caster to do the same thing with his rays.

Anything less would be overpowered.

Additionally make sure that all the same penalties are applied to using rays in this manner, not to mention that the stacking -5 for each successive ray should apply to non-sneaky rays.

By RAW, every individual attack you make gets sneak attack dice so long as you maintain all the prerequsites for sneak attacking. Mostly, this is done with TWF rogues who have a flanking tank.

Things like Multishot or Scorching Ray only apply sneak attack to the first attack, because you're launching a volley of projectiles rather than shooting or striking a bunch of times fast and accurately.

I would seriously warn you against allowing SA on iterative attacks with things like Scorching Ray. With a 4rog/6sorc/10arcane trickster, I can get 7d6 sneak attack. He then casts Improved Invisibility on himself during the surprise round, then on the first round of combat he uses Scorching Ray. He shoots three rays, each one for 4d6 + 7d6 sneak attack. This is a total of 11d6 per ray. From a 2nd level spell. Bro-ken. True Strike makes any to-hit penalties irrelevant.

[Baron Corm]

true strike only works for one attack, so if you use a true strike spell for every spell you're essentially halving your damage. i think that's fair.

and the character you've made there is a level 20 character. 33d6 damage from a single spell is fine with me, especially because it's easily resistable fire damage, it doesn't work against creatures immune to critical hits, and you're losing 4 caster levels to do this. using sorceror with that build makes you ineligible for 9th level spells, too, though wizard wouldn't if you dropped a rogue level. also, metamagic feats would only apply to the base 4d6 damage.

i don't see a problem with allowing sneak attacks with rays with the -5 iterative penalties. as far as mitigating the penalties, the caster can take weapon focus: ray. there's no feat for meleers that allows you to just ignore iterative attack penalties, so i don't see the need for one for casters. in fact, you should probably make the caster take a feat in order to sneak attack on all the attacks. perhaps make it a bonus feat of the arcane trickster class as well.

[Ionari]

there's no feat for meleers that allows you to just ignore iterative attack penalties, so i don't see the need for one for casters.

Well, there's Whirlwind Attack, which gives you extra attacks at full BaB; though that has a bunch of prerequisites. Not sure how I would translate that to ray-users.

There's Rapid Shot, that gives you an extra attack at full BaB but then adds a -2 penalty to all attacks (maybe allow a similar mechanic for anyone who applies Split Ray? i.e., instead of 3 rays at +0/-5/-10, you could do 4 rays at -2/-2/-7/-12, and get SA damage on any ray that hits).

There's TWF, which lets you make more SA-qualified attacks at full BaB (with TWF penalties, but the first offhand strike starts without the -5 iterative penalty).

[Baron Corm]

ahh... adding extra attacks is different. split ray is better than twin spell already, doing the same thing for two less spell levels in cost. i really don't think there's a need to improve it with additional rays.

when applied to spells with multiple rays it has less effect, true enough... but it's still powerful enough imo