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MeralFegera
2015-03-12, 10:30 PM
It seems like in D&D and other RPG's demons/devils/fiends follow a strict hierarcy of power, and I feel like I've seen reference to demons gaining power and becoming more powerful forms. Is there any precedence for this happening in an actual game? Like, if a low-level demon starts to gain power, it actually turns into one of the more powerful demons over the course of a campaign? And if so, are there rules for this?

Maglubiyet
2015-03-12, 10:38 PM
It seems like in D&D and other RPG's demons/devils/fiends follow a strict hierarcy of power, and I feel like I've seen reference to demons gaining power and becoming more powerful forms. Is there any precedence for this happening in an actual game? Like, if a low-level demon starts to gain power, it actually turns into one of the more powerful demons over the course of a campaign? And if so, are there rules for this?

Never seen any rules on this. From what I've read, the accumulation of enough fiendish brownie points to rise in rank takes place over the course of centuries or millennia. And then the few descriptions of the actual promotion, where the fiend transforms from its old form to the new, can also takes years or even centuries.

Battlebooze
2015-03-13, 12:29 AM
First you start out in the hell pits, grubbing around in the mud, getting stabbed by annoying demons who rank higher than you. Then, one day, one of the demon guards eats a bad hell sandwich and gets sick...

In his moment of weakness, you take him down. The Demonic supervisor laughs, kicking him into the pit while handing you his pitchfork. You watch the supervisor walk off, knowing he is next to go..

And so on.

Until you become head of the HR department. (Hellish Resources)

Then you have your succubus secretary spend all afternoon taking dictation.

It's a demon eat demon world down there.

Envyus
2015-03-13, 01:49 AM
In D&D it works like this.

Devils are a strict Hierarchy. For the most part Stronger and Smarter Devils are ranked higher. (In a few cases this is different. The Imp is Higher Ranked then the Bearded Devil in some editions despite being weaker.) At the Top of the Hierarchy is Asmodeus and the Dukes of Hell. Below them are the greater devils, below them are lesser devils, and lastly there are least devils.

Devils can promote each other by spending some of Hell's Divine Energy becoming gaining the appearance, powers and personalty traits that come with the new form. This is generally done as a reward for when a devil does it's jobs well. Devils can also punish their lessers by demoting them into a weaker form which gets some of hells divine energy back, Devils fear this more then death especially if they are demoted into a least devil form which erases their personality and memory. However Devils can't demote Devils that do not work under them, preventing them from demoting a rivals subordinates. A lesser Devil can promote least Devils they supervise in other types of Least Devils. Lesser Devils with the permission of a Greater Devil or a Greater Devil themselves can promote a least devil into a lesser devil. Lesser devils can be freely promoted by greater devils, but they need permission from a duke to promote a lesser devil into a greater devil or a duke needs to do the promotion themselves. A greater devil can only become a duke with the permission of Asmodeus.

Demons meanwhile don't have a true hierarchy other then weaker demons tend to get forced to serve stronger ones under fear of death. Demons that manage to gain power can mutate into stronger types of Demons. Or the Chaotic Whims of the Abyss will mutate a weaker demon into a stronger form. Most don't last too long and are killed by other demons however. Along with that, demons of all types and powers just randomly crawl out of holes in the abyss. Demon Lords who are powerful enough to extend their power over the abyss by expending effort on their part can mutate demons they forced into service into other types of demon. Unlike the Devils this is almost never based on how well a demon served them and instead is just based on what the Demon Lord wants at the time. It needs a spy so it turns a Manes into a Quasit, it needs a bunch of powerful soldiers it mutates a gang of dretch into Hezrou. Though they almost never mutate a demon into a very powerful form like a Balor in fear the demon could turn against them and become a powerful rival.

Battlebooze
2015-03-13, 01:58 AM
In D&D it works like this.

Devils are a strict Hierarchy. For the most part Stronger and Smarter Devils are ranked higher. (In a few cases this is different. The Imp is Higher Ranked then the Bearded Devil in some editions despite being weaker.) At the Top of the Hierarchy is Asmodeus and the Dukes of Hell. Below them are the greater devils, below them are lesser devils, and lastly there are least devils.

Devils can promote each other by spending some of Hell's Divine Energy becoming gaining the appearance, powers and personalty traits that come with the new form. This is generally done as a reward for when a devil does it's jobs well. Devils can also punish their lessers by demoting them into a weaker form which gets some of hells divine energy back, Devils fear this more then death especially if they are demoted into a least devil form which erases their personality and memory. However Devils can't demote Devils that do not work under them, preventing them from demoting a rivals subordinates. A lesser Devil can promote least Devils they supervise in other types of Least Devils. Lesser Devils with the permission of a Greater Devil or a Greater Devil themselves can promote a least devil into a lesser devil. Lesser devils can be freely promoted by greater devils, but they need permission from a duke to promote a lesser devil into a greater devil or a duke needs to do the promotion themselves. A greater devil can only become a duke with the permission of Asmodeus.

Short Version: Devils advance like IRS employees.



Demons meanwhile don't have a true hierarchy other then weaker demons tend to get forced to serve stronger ones under fear of death. Demons that manage to gain power can mutate into stronger types of Demons. Or the Chaotic Whims of the Abyss will mutate a weaker demon into a stronger form. Most don't last too long and are killed by other demons however. Along with that, demons of all types and powers just randomly crawl out of holes in the abyss. Demon Lords who are powerful enough to extend their power over the abyss by expending effort on their part can mutate demons they forced into service into other types of demon. Unlike the Devils this is almost never based on how well a demon served them and instead is just based on what the Demon Lord wants at the time. It needs a spy so it turns a Manes into a Quasit, it needs a bunch of powerful soldiers it mutates a gang of dretch into Hezrou. Though they almost never mutate a demon into a very powerful form like a Balor in fear the demon could turn against them and become a powerful rival.

Short Version: Demons advance like gangbangers in Detroit.

And he's right 100% (So am I )

Twice
2015-03-13, 03:49 AM
Short Version: Devils advance like IRS employees.

Short Version: Demons advance like gangbangers in Detroit.

I am immensely entertained and satisfied by this explanation and the last.