Nevermind

[KoDT69]

Removed post, apparently some people get offended too easily to discuss a D&D plotline closely related to ancient writings that never made it into any actual religious publications...

[Mewtarthio]

Wha? Did you recieve a whole bunch of nasty PMs or something? There aren't any replies; how can you be so sure?

[Innis Cabal]

its not allowed by the rules of posting, as is posting about most real life stuff that could get very ugly

[KoDT69]

Just trying to be safe. I don't want my account deleted or anything. I just had come cool thoughts based off of books that never became official religious dogma.

[sigurd]

Biblical References = Sensitive

I commend you on your sensitivity. (Personally, I wouldnt care but I understand respecting peoples beliefs.) Of course if you are doing this simply because you think you should it says nothing about the moderators or the site rules.


Still, I highly support being able to take down your own posts because you think you should :)..

Sigurd

[Indon]

So, what, spells and stuff based on apocrypha?

Why not simply say, "Hey, I was reading an apocryphal book and thought, what if I statted out this?"

Edit: Actually, KODT, feel free to PM me about it, I think I might know what book you're talking about.

[Legoman]

Apocryphal stuff makes for a good campaign setting - Titus Antiochus Euripides rampaging around the holy land, in a nation where the last prophet was 200 years ago, and he said he would be the last prophet before the messiah, eagerly anticipated to throw out the foreign oppressors...


Seriously, you can't write better fantasy plots than that.

[KoDT69]

Well I originally posted a spoiler of the "untold" story of King Solomon. It's actually kick-arse and I thought it would make for an off the scale plot-hook. If anyone is specifically interested, I can PM you if you promise it won't offend you somehow :smallamused:

[Legoman]

Well I originally posted a spoiler of the "untold" story of King Solomon. It's actually kick-arse and I thought it would make for an off the scale plot-hook. If anyone is specifically interested, I can PM you if you promise it won't offend you somehow :smallamused:

Zomg, PM.

I'm not too familiar with the Apocrypha, but I've been studying the bible for a whiles - there's so much history wrapped up in it that it does, indeed, make for great gaming. (Among other, more important things ;) )

[Jalathas]

Ooh, PM me, too, please. I've been thinking about running a campaign with some Judeo-Christian imagery, and this sounds like it might be useful in that.

[Tor the Fallen]

What would be the DC to knock a temple down with your bare hands?

[Fizban]

Heck, I'll take a PM. There's enough people interested, I'd at least send it to a mod and see if it's okay to post. After all, just about every great myth that DnD is based on originally came from religion, or has been inextricably tied to it by now.

[Reinboom]

I would like a copy of this as well if it's not a bother.
This seams like an interesting idea plot.

[LotharBot]

Religious references are dangerous, simply because people are sometimes emotional about religion (their own and other people's.)

That said, if you're looking at what amount to historical accounts, whether from the Bible or Koran or Apocryphal Jewish writings, I think it's safe to mention the source in passing and then rewrite the story using fantasy names and locations. Check with a mod to be sure, though.

[Edo]

I may as well hop on the PM request list...

[Bag_of_Holding]

I heartily agree with LotharBot's idea on passing quots et cetera. Playing D&D is not against Christianity neither is it against Buddhism and many other religions (as I recall). However, they do get offended if their religious materials become a matter of 'tweaked interpretation' because it can lead to some very nasty issues concerning the religion. So try to make it as inconspicuous as possible.

[Arlanthe]

There's "historical/story" religious text, and "orthodox/divine" religious text. The former should be safe to write about, I believe. I don't see how anyone can begrudge a GM if they stick to a parallel interpretation of Biblical themes.

So you are probably fine as long as you don't roll Moses as a Cleric and the Archangel Michael as a celestial, and use them as NPCs... but yeah, check with a mod.

Edit: Interestingly, I just got back from a trip to the Louvre where I saw some ancient Mesopotamian friezes, statues, and artifcats, and even the Code of Hammurabi. I think a pre-Mosaic Mesopotamian campaign would be awesome.

[KoDT69]

OK I think I got everyone that asked so far to this point. Not a lot of detail, just a few big ones that were excluded for obvious reasons. What did you all think? And should I go ahead and post it all? I'll copy a mod just incase :smallbiggrin:

[Raveler1]

*snip*

Edit: Interestingly, I just got back from a trip to the Louvre where I saw some ancient Mesopotamian friezes, statues, and artifcats, and even the Code of Hammurabi. I think a pre-Mosaic Mesopotamian campaign would be awesome.

As a matter of fact, I'm working on that very thing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33457) right now! Also, there are a really nice set of rules for Biblical adventures in the supplement Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era. And yes, they do stat out Cain, David, Solomon, and a few others, plus there are monsters appropriate for the area. It's been very useful for me in developing the Kudur world.

[Neko]

That area makes for some fun rps.. I'm making a desert campaign currently where the group will explore ancient tombs and fight things from that kind of mythos. Should be interesting..

[KoDT69]

Glad I got some supporters on this then!

[Zeta Kai]

I don't see what the big deal would be. The leviathan is a biblical critter. Some spells (mostly epic) emulate the biblical plague of Egypt. There are myriad references in D&D to any number of religions, Christianity included. To actively remove/ignore Christian homages would be the greater sin. Check with a mod & you should be fine, in most cases. PM me as well, please.

I am intrigued by your campaign concept, & see nothing wrong with it as a concept. With the right playing group, anything is possible (for good or ill).

[Piedmon_Sama]

I agree with all the above. I think Biblical themes--especially some of the weird stuff in Apocrypha like the Book of Enoch--make great source material and inspiration for gaming in any milleu. If you wouldn't mind, could you PM me your plot idea?

[Neko]

oooo lets fight the Behemoth!

[Ceres]

Freedom of speech!

[Neko]

oooo and while we're at it... the egyptian gods... snake like symbiots... using a hyperspace wormhole to travell... and the pyramids... landing points!

[Revlid]

I wouldn't find them offensive at all. Most (if not all) of modern fantasy is based off a religion of some kind, some of them still active.

Then again, I'm not the sort of person you finds making stats for Jesus offensive, so I'm probably not the best indicator.

[Neko]

Then again, I'm not the sort of person you finds making stats for Jesus offensive, so I'm probably not the best indicator.

has someone made those? I mean depending on faith.. its either deity or non deity stats..


I still love the Jesus Saves and Takes Half Damage shirts

[ArmorArmadillo]

Well, reference is a big big word. Texts like Genesis are often read not only as holy writ but as literature; depending on your group it can go very smoothly.

The best way to do this is probably to do a parallel metaphor or analogue, rather than a direct reference.

[Legoman]

Would anyone be interested in creating a campaign setting based on the Maccabean period?

I'm thinking wiki + Kod's idea of the temple as the basis for a 'holy land,' then you'd just elaborate on Greece, Persia, and Rome as various powers vying for control of 'Misrael.'

Bam. 4 nations + divine influence + drama = campaign setting.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Actually, just the other day I was talking to one of my best friends about the Testament supplement. (for the record, I am Christian and he is not, this is ok with both of us)
He asked if I considered it interesting, blasphemous or what. I replied that, while there are several mined camps right there, there are some interesting settings where to set a campaign upon.

For instance, something I would definitely never do, would be to use Jesus Christ or any of the major prophets as NPCs in a campaign, a la Caballo de Troya or Ben Hur. I find that approach cheap and disrespectful.

I also would not run a "kill the infidels and destroy their cities and temples" adventure (I don't even encourage my players to slaughter orc villages, why should I encourage them to slaughter canaanites?).

"Divine Magic", at least as understood in a D20 context, would also be mostly out of the picture, save for a few minor effects, or on a Deus Ex Machina cutscene (pun intended) in the epilogue of the adventure. Arcane magic would be completely removed.

However, there are several other ways where you can use a biblical setting for an interesting bronze/iron age campaign, like a political intrigue campaign in the time of Babylonian captivity (like in the book of Esther), or maybe a more adventurous "Find the missing child of the samaritan woman" thing.

[Legoman]

For instance, something I would definitely never do, would be to use Jesus Christ or any of the major prophets as NPCs in a campaign, a la Caballo de Troya or Ben Hur. I find that approach cheap and disrespectful.

Not only that, but it trivializes the player contribution to the world - that's whats so great about the Maccabean period - the last prophet came around 200 years ago, and the Messiah is supposed to be coming in another 200 - what goes in between is a period of massive political and religious strife, as the people indiginous to the holy land work fearfully to please their God so as not to be conquered again, and three or four nations look to pour into the fertile land and take it for themselves.

(Hell, why not make Carthage or Egypt still a power? Throw a giant whirlpool, or better yet, an island inhabited by extremely territorial and destructive dragons in the center of the 'Med, making sea travel impossible, and the three big nations have to go through the holy land to get at one another!)

If you wanted to nix divine casting, just replace the Cleric with Archivists. While you're at it, replace the Wizard with the Artificer, and strip away most of the Druid's casting, and you have yourself a good ol' time. The only really full arcane casters would be Sorcerers- those with latent magical ability - garnered from bloodlines.

Since the Druid is basically now just a ranger with wildshape, make the Ranger a
Scouter. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32772)

You now have a 'lower-magic' world, that doesn't have to muck with treasure or other concerns typically indicative of that sort of thing.

This is just too perfect - if I wasn't trying to twist my own arm into getting a novel written down, I'd totally do a write up on this thing.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Not only that, but it trivializes the player contribution to the world - that's whats so great about the Maccabean period - the last prophet came around 200 years ago, and the Messiah is supposed to be coming in another 200 - what goes in between is a period of massive political and religious strife, as the people indiginous to the holy land work fearfully to please their God so as not to be conquered again, and three or four nations look to pour into the fertile land and take it for themselves.

(Hell, why not make Carthage or Egypt still a power? Throw a giant whirlpool, or better yet, an island inhabited by extremely territorial and destructive dragons in the center of the 'Med, making sea travel impossible, and the three big nations have to go through the holy land to get at one another!)

If you wanted to nix divine casting, just replace the Cleric with Archivists. While you're at it, replace the Wizard with the Artificer, and strip away most of the Druid's casting, and you have yourself a good ol' time. The only really full arcane casters would be Sorcerers- those with latent magical ability - garnered from bloodlines.

Since the Druid is basically now just a ranger with wildshape, make the Ranger a
Scouter. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32772)

You now have a 'lower-magic' world, that doesn't have to muck with treasure or other concerns typically indicative of that sort of thing.

This is just too perfect - if I wasn't trying to twist my own arm into getting a novel written down, I'd totally do a write up on this thing.

Good ideas, all of those

[Piedmon_Sama]

Why not stat the Prophets? There was nothing special about them except for their faith. (Not even that in Jonah's case.) They'd probably be Commoners or Experts, of 2nd or 3rd level. It's just that if you mess with them, you have to answer to their boss. =p

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: My mind boggles. When someone tells you something is against the Rules of Posting, you'd be well advised to check said Rules. This is not a sensitive topic. It is a forbidden topic on these boards. This is not a freedom of speech issue. GitP is not a public or government forum. It is a private forum.


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