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Aquillion
2007-04-10, 05:21 PM
Can't people ride a floating disk? It was forbidden in earlier editions, but seems to be allowed now. The spell description says that it maintains a set distance from you "if not otherwise directed", which certainly seems to say it can move at its caster's direction if they want it to. And looking at the rest of the desc, it's a good strategy:

A floating disk can hold up to 100 pounds per caster level. At level 2, it can hold most casters; at higher levels it can carry a bunch of extra gear and loot in the process.

It moves at "a rate of no more than your normal speed each round." So, while you're riding it, you can use the disk to move your normal speed instead of spending your move action.

The disk cannot "more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it." Note the wording there--it just needs a surface beneath it, not one anyone could walk on. A floating disk can carry you over the surface of water, over a field of lava, over caltrops and grease, etc. You won't trigger traps on the ground, either. If you want to get sneaky, you could put a weight on the end of a long roll of cloth, throw it across a gap, and use your disk to carry you over that 'surface.'

It lasts 1 hour / level. At higher levels you can easily keep it for most of the day.

Finally, if you are damaged, paralyzed, or otherwise incapacitated, your disk can still move, pulling you to safety or over to the cleric for healing. If someone else in your party is injured, you can switch places with them after the fight is over to transport them easily.

Granted, it's not a mount, and it's certainly not a fast flying mount, but it can go places mounts can't. It can navigate any surface short of a sheer vertical cliff with ease, at your full movement speed.

And there's another trick in here, too: You can cast it for other people. Now, in that case they have to stay in Close range of you (or at least leave their disk in close range), but there's still potental here. They use your normal speed, so if you have a higher movement speed than them (either because you're a fast race, or because they're a heavily-armored fighter), they're getting sped up for one hour / level by a 1st level spell, plus being able to float next to an enemy and make a full attack, plus all the bonuses mentioned above. That's a pretty good effect for 1st level.

Even if you say they have to make balance checks to stay standing on it when fighting (which is not at all obvious--it's three feet in diameter, after all), a fighter could still take a 5-foot step off of it and make a full attack, while a caster can just sit crosslegged on it and zoom around.

What do you think?

Stevenson
2007-04-10, 05:24 PM
Yeah. You'll need a balance check though, probably...eh....20 DC or so.

lacesmcawesome
2007-04-10, 05:27 PM
Seems reasonable, actually. though I wouldn't use it often, I think your idea on the water and lava makes total sense, I probably wouldn't have thought of that.

My DM would love you for that, if you pulled it off? Seriously, he loves inventive use of spells more than any person I've seen... not an exaggeration.

...I might possibly steal this strategy. Thank you.

Enzario
2007-04-10, 05:41 PM
There was something similar on the forums just a bit ago...

Found it. The Floating Hole!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35035&highlight=floating+disk)

Tellah
2007-04-10, 05:51 PM
There's a spell in the Spell Compendium called Floating Disk, Greater, that functions like Tenser's Floating Disk but allows you to ride it. It's level four. Given that WoTC put out a higher-level spell to do that specific thing, I'm guessing they don't intend Tenser's to allow you to ride it.

asqwasqw
2007-04-10, 05:52 PM
I think that other people can ride it, but the wizard can not.

Kel_Arath
2007-04-10, 06:47 PM
"it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet beetween itself and you" so other people could ride it, but not you.

Clementx
2007-04-10, 06:49 PM
You can't direct a disk to move. It can only accompany you as you move, or remain still. So no hovering around. Plus it stays within 3ft of the GROUND. Moving it further (like by forcing it to follow you over water) cancels it if your DM is nice, or it follows the bottom and dumps all your gear into the water, if he is mean. That being said, I have let casters pole themselves along the ground with their quarterstaves. More out of a desire to avoid stepping in dog crap than tactical maneuvering.

Ditto
2007-04-10, 07:28 PM
This debate has been done before...

The consensus is you *can* ride it, and the definition of 'ground' is negotiable with your DM. If you want to mince words, 'following you around' - you're sitting on the edge of the disk. Your but is 1 foot forward of the center of the disk. It's following your butt. Deal. :smalltongue:

I've used it to carry a party along a floating river, and to hover above 1 foot of watery ground. My gnome was *not* walking in that crap... especially after the paladin and the rogue were sucked under it by an unknown force...

Teloric
2007-04-10, 08:34 PM
I've heard of using the floating disc to carry a wounded party member around. My interpretation of its movement is that it follows the Wizard around. So, if the Wizard isn't leading the way, the disc can't move.

Enzario
2007-04-10, 08:44 PM
I quote the RAW


The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you.
(Emphasis mine)

There you go. You want to ride it, direct it.

DaMullet
2007-04-10, 08:50 PM
I'll quote the same RAW, with a different emphasis.


The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you. If I understand semantics correctly, and I believe I do, accompanying you cannot be done from underneath you.

Riding it is entirely different from it following you.

Aquillion
2007-04-11, 02:25 AM
Hmm. Easily solved. First, we'll construct a long wooden frame. It looks a bit like a flat, lightweight wagon bed, but with a roughly three-foot-diameter hole where you'd hitch the horse, as for a large, flat peg, and designed to support the whole weight on this area. Put it over the floating disk, with the floating disk securely in this hole. Now sit the wizard on the wagon bit behind it, five feet from the disk. The disk is now 'accompanying' them at the default distance. The rules plainly allow them to "otherwise direct" the disk, making it go more than five feet away from them, or less. So they direct it. It tries to move to its new relative position, causing the frame to move, causing the wizard to move. Presto! Free movement with a floating disk. Plus, once you're high enough level, the rest of your party can ride the frame, too. In fact, you could build a small lightweight house over the disk.

I'm not sure whether they could turn, like this--they might just be able to set the disk's target distance, which wouldn't let it make turns normally. So the frame needs to be set up so the wizard can turn it with some sort of steering wheel, using the disk as an axle. It can always move forward or back on the axis defined by the wizard's position, so this will allow free movement.

But we're not done yet. The disk can float; it just needs a 'surface' of some sort below it. So we add one more bit to the frame: A flat wooden surface, attached a foot beneath the disk. The disk can now fly at any height, since the surface beneath it will keep it from ever self-destructing.

Now we need a way to make it faster. Well, the disk moves at our normal speed, right? If something changes our normal speed, that's the disk's new speed. So, we bring a horse onto the frame with us, and put it under the wizard. The wizard's "normal" speed in this situation is their riding speed--the speed of the horse. Therefore, the disk instantly becomes as fast as a horse, but with no ride skill required, and capable of flying, floating, and carrying 100 pounds per level (minus weight of wizard, horse, and frame.) A well-trained horse would likely be necessary to take full advantage of this.

Now, instead of a horse, let's put a potential horse under the wizard. That is, we don't actually get a horse, but we consider the possibility. They could ride a horse everywhere, making that speed "normal" for them. The wizard's maximum normal movement is therefore now capped at their riding speed, since they could potentially hop onto a horse at any time and move the horse's distance. In fact, it's capped at the speed of the highest horse they could ride. The disk can move up to the limits of their 'normal' movement.

In fact, at any given time, the person riding the disk could cast Expeditious Retreat to raise their normal movement by 30. As long as they decide to only move while under expeditious retreat, the boosted movement it grants is plainly their 'normal' movement--it's the only movement they use. That means that however fast the disk is capable of moving them (which is their 'normal' movement now, since it's what they use everywhere), they could be moving 30 feet faster than that, and therefore the disk could be moving 30 feet faster than that. So the disk is moving at NI speed, and can arrive anywhere on the plane (or on any plane that can be reached via movement) in one round. Note that at no point do they actually cast expeditious retreat--the mere potential to do so is sufficient.

DaMullet
2007-04-11, 05:55 AM
You seem to be forgetting a few things: Firstly, like spells don't stack. You could only get one Expeditious retreat, and that's from a lenient DM.

Rigeld2
2007-04-11, 06:11 AM
Note that at no point do they actually cast expeditious retreat--the mere potential to do so is sufficient.
I disagree with this... if the mere potential is sufficient, then there wouldnt be a limit on the things speed in the first place. Also, the spell doesnt say thier potential speed, it says thier normal speed.

Ashlan
2007-04-11, 10:36 AM
Straight from the Wizards website FAQ


"Can you ride your own Tenserís floating disk?
No. While you could command your Tenserís floating disk
to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to
move under its own power. It can follow you only at a
maximum rate equal to your normal speed."

Aquillion
2007-04-11, 12:14 PM
You seem to be forgetting a few things: Firstly, like spells don't stack. You could only get one Expeditious retreat, and that's from a lenient DM.Ack, I didn't state it right... I was tired. I'm not casting even one Expeditious Retreat. I'm not sure Expeditious Retreat is even necessary. It works like this:

The disk moves at your 'normal' movement speed -- the speed that is normal to you.

So, I decide that I will, from here on, only move while under expeditious retreat. That makes my 'normal' movement become 60. The disk's normal movement becomes 60. Then I decide that I will only move while under expeditious retreat and riding the cart attached to the disk. My 'normal' movement becomes 120. The disk's movement becomes 120. My normal movement becomes 180 (my 60 + the disk's new 120). The disk's movement becomes 180. And so on until the disk can reach any place on the plane in a single round.


"Can you ride your own Tenser’s floating disk?
No. While you could command your Tenser’s floating disk
to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to
move under its own power. It can follow you only at a
maximum rate equal to your normal speed."This confirms my plan above--you can order it close to you or far away from you. That's all you need to use it to power a cart or other contrivance.

Jayabalard
2007-04-11, 12:21 PM
The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you. The directing part only has to do with the fact that you can control the distance that it follows you.

So:

It can only follow you.
The default distance that it follows behind you is 5'
You can direct it to follow you at an interval closer than that.
You can sit on it and float, but it won't move.

Aquillion
2007-04-11, 01:18 PM
The directing part only has to do with the fact that you can control the distance that it follows you.

So:

It can only follow you.
The default distance that it follows behind you is 5'
You can direct it to follow you at an interval closer than that.
You can sit on it and float, but it won't move.
So, in other words, you agree that it will attempt to move closer to or further from you if ordered.

Now, what happens if you don't sit on it directly, but (for instance) attach a ten-foot-long board to it, and sit on this board, five feet from the disk--then order it to move to close to a distance of two feet from you, or six feet from you?

Also. Could you place a large amount of stuff on the disk and use it for moving cover that follows you everywhere?

Ditto
2007-04-11, 11:30 PM
^^ Exactly. Hitch it up.

Again, I don't understand why 'following you as directed is a problem.' I agree you cannot ride it, per se. You just constantly redirect it. Its directive is 'stay withing 1 foot of my nose.' Sit on it. Proceed to lean forward. Lo, it follows you! It's not your fault that it's under you, that's just a perk.

You wouldn't claim a familiar on your shoulder is not accompanying you. Above, below, in front, behind, if you're both going to the same place it's all the same.

@Aquillon: No, that's very silly. It moves at your speed. Your speed while riding the disk still equals your speed, so saying you can add your current speed with a potential speed (if the disk were moving) doesn't math out. I'd probably say you can move at Expeditious'd speed for the duration of that spell. 'Normal' would have to be a speed you can maintain.

BCOVertigo
2007-04-12, 01:32 PM
The horse added you to it's inventory and it is the one with the higher speed not you. It isn't a move speed buff like in wow. Look for boots of striding and springing and similar things. And as for your attempts to argue for potential speed, that's a lame route to take. You should be arguing how fast the planet is spinning or how fast said planet is orbiting the star. Abusing relativity, THAT'S how you argue that your character has an awesome movement speed.

And there is a much simpler way to ride it. Simply get a larger metal or wooden disk, whose radius is more than the distance the disk wants to maintain away from the caster, set it on top and use the other party members as a counterweight on the rear. As you move to the edge of the disk, just far enough to make it follow you, it scoots the party along at 30ft a round. Less cost and construction time than the cart idea.

Fhaolan
2007-04-12, 02:54 PM
Now, what happens if you don't sit on it directly, but (for instance) attach a ten-foot-long board to it, and sit on this board, five feet from the disk--then order it to move to close to a distance of two feet from you, or six feet from you?


In my opinion, the same thing that happens when you sit on that board and try to push the disk physically. Nothing. Not because of physics, because this is magic and has nothing to do with science, but because the spell description + the FAQ quote mentioned elsewhere make it sound like the disk only moves as directed when it is not physically tethered to you. The physical tethering (such as the board) causes a magic-based situation that makes it so that the disk doesn't move. I'd view it as a magical equivalent to electical grounding.

Flying Elephant
2007-04-12, 02:56 PM
This sounds like Yoda.

DaMullet
2007-04-12, 03:34 PM
Here's what I do when someone asks me if they can ride their disk: "No. Sit down."

It's worked so far.

BCOVertigo
2007-04-12, 03:55 PM
....the FAQ quote mentioned elsewhere make it sound like the disk only moves as directed when it is not physically tethered to you....

I don't see anything about indirect physical contact. Nowhere in that faq quote nor in the spell description does it say that anything other than direct contact with the caster or coming too close cancels the 'following mode' of the disk.

If you don't want to allow it in your game that's cool but by raw I don't see anything that makes attaching the disk to an object and indirectly propelling yourself fail to function so long as you don't allow the disk to come within the distance from you it is attempting to meet.

I'm thinking of this like holding a carrot in front of a pack mule; so long as he never catches it he'll keep walking(pretend he's mindless and not lazy).

Fhaolan
2007-04-12, 07:52 PM
I don't see anything about indirect physical contact. Nowhere in that faq quote nor in the spell description does it say that anything other than direct contact with the caster or coming too close cancels the 'following mode' of the disk.


I also don't see anything about not using the disk as a battering ram or for slicing people off at the knees by directing it to move through occupied spaces.

Enzario
2007-04-12, 08:51 PM
Personally, if I was DMing and one of my players brought this up, I would rule that WotC is wrong and that yes, you can indeed ride a floating disk. However, since it can only move your base speed per round, stuff such as expeditious retreat and other such things (including run actions) could not be undertaken by said disk. Therefore, it is *not* good in a battle situation, and only marginally better than a horse for long-distance travel.

Ditto
2007-04-12, 09:07 PM
Oh, that's just petty. Rams and weapons have stats for using them as such. These are their stated functions. The disk's purpose is a means of carrying things. It has stats for using it as such. It does not preclude carrying persons, or oneself. That's all that was said.

I'm sort of sad that I responded to that at length. Petty.

EDIT @Enzario: Agreed. It's not meant for a particular combat advantage, as I see it. It's just for when you really don't want to touch the ground. :smallsmile:

Grug
2007-04-12, 09:15 PM
My thoughts on this is that when the Disc follows you, you are "towing" it along. It's like an invisible leash that is attatched to you, and you can call the disk or make it stay, and that's about it. if you move too fast the "leash" stretches because the disc can't keep up until it goes out of range and spills your treasure. Even though you are towing it, the weight doesn't affrect you because the disc effectively negates gravity and friction.

Fhaolan
2007-04-13, 12:37 AM
Oh, that's just petty. Rams and weapons have stats for using them as such. These are their stated functions. The disk's purpose is a means of carrying things. It has stats for using it as such. It does not preclude carrying persons, or oneself. That's all that was said.


True, it was. And I apologize for that.

However, somewhere buried in that was a point. I honestly believe that the intent of the spell was to produce a magical pack-mule, not to be a method of transportation. Hooking a sled to a floating disk to my mind is no different than building a steam engine powered by burning hands. Yes, as DM you can allow it, but you don't have to and no amount of player 'but it's reasonable!' explanations can force you into doing it. It's all magic afterall, and I can come up with all sorts of magical explanations for those things not working.

I'm against it because it opens up cans of worms campaign-wise. As a player, and as a DM, I've been down this path before and neither time did it go good places. Allowing a floating disk/sled combination almost immediately led to two magic items with floating disk enchantments running off each other to create a rideable hovercraft. From there things went downhill fairly predictably.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-13, 01:23 AM
My thoughts on this is that when the Disc follows you, you are "towing" it along. It's like an invisible leash that is attatched to you, and you can call the disk or make it stay, and that's about it. if you move too fast the "leash" stretches because the disc can't keep up until it goes out of range and spills your treasure. Even though you are towing it, the weight doesn't affrect you because the disc effectively negates gravity and friction.

Exactly. Pretend you've got an invisible, incorporeal rope tethering the disc to you as you drag it along. You can pull the rope in, or you can let out more slack, but you can't ride the disc my manipulating the rope.

Ditto
2007-04-13, 08:13 AM
You're just using a very short rope...

What's wrong with making a hovercraft? It's perfectly legal to move people on a disk as a hovercraft, this we have all admitted. Is it a major difference whether or not the person is now you? The use is the same.

And you can still ride a pack mule. A load is a load. :smalltongue:

Fhaolan
2007-04-13, 08:38 AM
You're just using a very short rope...

What's wrong with making a hovercraft? It's perfectly legal to move people on a disk as a hovercraft, this we have all admitted. Is it a major difference whether or not the person is now you? The use is the same.

And you can still ride a pack mule. A load is a load. :smalltongue:

Unfortunately, it's more a case of players being unable to divorce their modern attitudes from the pseudo-medieval culture that is standard D&D.

Floating disk is a first level spell. As such, it's absurdly easy and cheap to make permanent hovercraft using it. Hovercraft that do not require food or rest. If you need a transport truck, just use more disks. They don't go quite as fast at any given moment as a horse, but they go continuously so for long-distance trips they're faster and they don't have any upkeep cost.

Now the players bring in their knowledge of assembly lines. Why not? They've already brought in their knowledge of hovercraft, so why deny this? We just skipped several steps towards an industrial revolution. Steam engines? That's obsolete before it's even invented, as we've got Disk Drive!

So the players are now running an automobile company, probably called Fnord Disks or something. Every overland merchant is running a hovercraft-based trucking company. The players start to investigate exactly how big of a hovercraft they can build, large hover-trains, how big of a ship can they stack on these things?

By this time, the players are bored and want to go back to adventuring. But they can't go back. Not really. The flavor of the campaign world is irrepearably damaged.

This whole thing is an exploit, a much lower-powered one than the madness with the kobold spellcaster, but still an exploit. Once you figure out this trick, there's nothing stopping all those 20+ Int NPC Wizards from doing the exact same thing. Unless you honestly think that your characters are smarter than everyone else in the campaign world...

thorgrim29
2007-04-13, 10:29 AM
Hum, couldnt you just have your raven familiar cast the spell, then ride on it?

Tellah
2007-04-13, 10:36 AM
What's wrong with making a hovercraft? It's perfectly legal to move people on a disk as a hovercraft, this we have all admitted.

I haven't admitted that at all. There is another spell in the Spell Compendium, called Floating Disk, Greater, that functions exactly like the standard Tenser's, except that you can ride it. Were it OGL, I would quote it for you. The Spell Compendium spell is fourth level, while Tenser's is first-level. Case closed; Wizards doesn't intend Tenser's to allow a rider.

Jayabalard
2007-04-13, 02:57 PM
So, in other words, you agree that it will attempt to move closer to or further from you if ordered.No, I agree that it will move closer or father from you, not attempt to to do so and fail because you've put it in a paradoxical situation where it "can't but keeps attempting".


Now, what happens if you don't sit on it directly, but (for instance) attach a ten-foot-long board to it, and sit on this board, five feet from the disk--then order it to move to close to a distance of two feet from you, or six feet from you?
it can't move closer to you, since you're connected, so either
1. it will ignore the fact that you "attached" the board to it and move closer, keeping the board and you in the same absolute position without moving either of them; tell it to move far enough and it will move out from under the board and you'll fall.
or
2. It won't move since it cannot actually get any closer to you.

Ditto
2007-04-13, 04:49 PM
It's meant to carry loads. Unconscious party mates usually don't 'ride' anything. I think most people think using the disk as a pack mule/sled is okay... In any event, I certainly wouldn't argue you can ride it in anyway useful in combat, say. It's riding insofar as you sit on something and it moves. I don't see why it couldn't drag a sled just as easily as drag or carry you directly.

Fnord would be limited by range, spells per day, and duration limits. Not really concerned there. It's not about forming an awesome new sort of transportation, it's just not touching the ground. Is it useful for getting over pressure plate and pit traps? Sure. You can cross them after using Enlarge Person and taking a boosted jump check, too. It's just a new solution to an old problem.

Cybren
2007-04-13, 05:18 PM
It's meant to carry loads. Unconscious party mates usually don't 'ride' anything. I think most people think using the disk as a pack mule/sled is okay... In any event, I certainly wouldn't argue you can ride it in anyway useful in combat, say. It's riding insofar as you sit on something and it moves. I don't see why it couldn't drag a sled just as easily as drag or carry you directly.

Fnord would be limited by range, spells per day, and duration limits. Not really concerned there. It's not about forming an awesome new sort of transportation, it's just not touching the ground. Is it useful for getting over pressure plate and pit traps? Sure. You can cross them after using Enlarge Person and taking a boosted jump check, too. It's just a new solution to an old problem.
Crap...they're in my brain...

Middle Snu
2007-04-13, 07:30 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this:

Suppose you have two wizards. They both cast floating disk, then get on the other guy's disk. Both are within five feet of each other.

W W

Both wizards command their disks (bearing the other wizard) forward. This would result in:

W
__W

Which is legal, since they would still be a mere 5 feet away. However, since both are moving, they simply move forward apace.

Add Houses/Tanks/Carts/Whatever and there you have it.

Variable Arcana
2007-04-14, 12:54 PM
There's a spell in the Spell Compendium called Floating Disk, Greater, that functions like Tenser's Floating Disk but allows you to ride it. It's level four. Given that WoTC put out a higher-level spell to do that specific thing, I'm guessing they don't intend Tenser's to allow you to ride it.
You are remembering incorrectly.

The first sentence of the spell description of Greater Floating Disk reads:
This spell functions like [name deleted]'s Floating Disk (PHB 294), except that the created disk does not need to stay within 3 feet of the surface beneath it.It goes on, later, to state explicitly that the caster can ride on the disk, but it neither states nor implies that this is a *difference* between the lesser and greater spells. The difference is that the lesser spell is useful for carrying things along the ground, while the greater one allows you to fly.



"Can you ride your own Tenserís floating disk?
No. While you could command your Tenserís floating disk
to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to
move under its own power. It can follow you only at a
maximum rate equal to your normal speed."
This is one of those quotes that makes you want to bash your head into a wall. The second sentence is self-contradictory. Does the disk move (e.g. closer to you when you command it to) or not (no ability to move under its own power)?


Re: economics of TFDs...

I'm not sure why anyone thinks this will put standard carters out of business.

A TFD travels about as quickly as a wagon (though, it's true it doesn't need a good road) at a cost of 10 gp/hour (10 gp * CL, and duration=CL hours). Hiring a carriage to carry you and your belongings the same three miles costs 9 copper pieces -- an enormous bargain, over a hundred times cheaper than the floating disk.

Purchasing a wagon (35 gp), a heavy horse (200 gp) and food for a year (18 gp) gives a huge overestimate of the cost of a year's wagon-pulling, since the horse is a good riding horse: 253 gp.

Hiring a wizard to provide a TFD for eight hours a day for that year costs: 28,800 gp. (Again, a hundred times more than the non-magical method.)

(Note that these costs don't include the 2,880 hours of the wizard's time, since he needs to travel with the disk.)

Buying wands lets you hire a low-level wizard to travel with your goods, but costs 15 gp/hour instead of 10 (a 750 gp wand used up in 2 hours more than six eight hour days...).

If you're crafting a custom item to cast a continuous TFD, with a really generous DM you can have it for 2,000 gp, with a CL:1 and a capacity of 100 lbs.

At that point, you have to ask yourself why you didn't spend 2,500 gp on a basic bag of holding, which keeps your goods safe from the elements, goes easily through doorways, and has a carrying capacity of 250 lbs.

And you're still not competitive with the nonmagical carter down the road -- unless you're travelling to somewhere that doesn't have roads, in which case you're not competetive with the guy down the road who has some bags of holding and hires a wizard to cast teleport.

Tellah
2007-04-14, 03:25 PM
It goes on, later, to state explicitly that the caster can ride on the disk, but it neither states nor implies that this is a *difference* between the lesser and greater spells. The difference is that the lesser spell is useful for carrying things along the ground, while the greater one allows you to fly.


After stating the ability to make it fly by concentrating, it says:


This allows you to sit on the disk and command it to carry you about.

"This," meaning the ability to make it fly by concentrating, "allows you to sit on the disk and command it to carry you about." That's pretty explicit. The standard version of floating disk (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsFtoG.html#floating-disk) does not share that property. If "this" means "this spell," then again it is an explicit statement of ability to carry a rider that floating disk lacks.

You cannot simply add abilities to spells because it suits you. "It doesn't say I can't" does not hold water here. Create Food and Water doesn't specifically forbid you from creating enough hay to feed one horse/level inside your enemy's lungs, either. As long as he's within 25 feet + 2/level, it's fair game, right?

Caledonian
2007-04-14, 03:47 PM
The RAW spell is badly worded, but it's clear that it's not intended to permit you to ride about on your own Disc. The spell effect can only follow the caster.

So make a second-level spell that will permit the caster to ride on it, but still can't move faster than 30ft/round or move higher than 3 ft from the ground. It's about as useful as Levitate, but lacks the special features that make that spell worthwhile, so you're not even trespassing on another's spell's territory.

It has great flavor, especially if you negate the "force disc" aspect and require a focus of a small carpet.

Ditto
2007-04-14, 06:55 PM
@Caledonian: If it were clear, there'd be no reason for this discussion. And no, I'm not inviting someone to say, "See! No reason!" :smalltongue:


After stating the ability to make it fly by concentrating, it says:
"This," meaning the ability to make it fly by concentrating, "allows you to sit on the disk and command it to carry you about."

You create a circular plane of force that follows you about carries loads for you
Emphasis mine. The difference is "about", clearly. It will carry a load (which in this case, they have explained is 'You') about. Here and there and about. The regular version will follow you about anywhere you'd like to go, so long as you obey the stated limitation of range and height. The gimmick of the Improved version of the spell is the ability to concentrate on its function and command it to do other things that move around - all you can do with the normal Disk is 'direct' it to follow you at some convenient distance. You can't command it to touch the ground or flip over or any such thing, an ability which the Improved version grants.

You cannot simply add abilities to spells because it suits you. "It doesn't say I can't" does not hold water here. Create Food and Water doesn't specifically forbid you from creating enough hay to feed one horse/level inside your enemy's lungs, either. As long as he's within 25 feet + 2/levels, it's fair game, right?
Again, petty. That spell is creating food and water to nourish people and/or mounts, and creating hay inside of people IS specifically prohibited - it says so under the 'Create Water' entry. ALL conjuration spells are barred from internal ickiness.
This is neither game-breaking nor an inconceivable use for the spell - it IS meant to carry things, including bodies. This is fine-tuning it.

daggaz
2007-04-14, 07:19 PM
Here's what I do when someone asks me if they can ride their disk: "No. Sit down."

It's worked so far.

Hahahhahahahaa! That is just exactly the best way to deal with this one.

Tellah
2007-04-14, 07:41 PM
Ditto, Floating Disk, Greater specifically allows you to ride the disk; the description for Floating Disk contains no such statement. Furthermore, the FAQ, available here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), categorically says you cannot ride your own Floating Disk. Ashlan pointed this out on page one, but I'll quote it again:



Can you ride your own Tenser's floating disk?
No. While you could command your Tenser's floating disk to move close enough for you to sit upon in, it has no ability to move under its own power. It can follow you only at a maximum rate equal to your normal speed.


You may disagree with it, but that is the official Wizards ruling, like it or not.

If you want to ride a Floating Disk, houserule it and enjoy your hovercraft--I promise I won't come to your table and stop you. Nonetheless, riding a Floating Disk is neither RAW nor RAI.

Collin152
2007-04-14, 08:00 PM
Provide any amount of evidence on either side, nobody will ever abandon their view on this one. Sorry, the only one with the answer is your DM, and nobody else.

Ditto
2007-04-14, 09:56 PM
I suppose this is the point where the thread moves toward that, Collin, yes...

RAW does not prohibit it. RAI, you can continue to mince words. Again, I wouldn't argue you can ride the disk in any strictly mechanical sense (as with Mounted Combat or such). I'm not riding it, it's carrying my load. The load is me. 'Follow my nose' is a wholly technically sound direction for the disk to follow. If you want to call that thing underneath of me that's moving me along 'riding', that's your prerogative.

Rigeld2
2007-04-14, 10:04 PM
RAW does not prohibit it.
Didnt someone post an FAQ quote that says you cant? FAQ==RAW.

MusScribe
2007-04-14, 10:24 PM
Very true.


And, although it's been said to be (and I'll admit that it's true) a very inappropriate use of the spell, using the assumption that if the floating disk hits something, it moves that something if it is within its weight limit-

Get a box to carry you and four hollow 3ft^3 boxes attached to it, each that can create a Floating Disk in it, at will if possible. One box on top and one on bottom, the other two on adjacent sides. Make sure the top box can be moved from inside the main box.

Start by triggering the top box's spell, then move the box up. This moves the top disk up, against the box, pulling the whole device up with it. Trigger the bottom disk and turn off the top disk and move the top box down. The device is being held up by the bottom disk. Repeat until you're up as high as you wish. The other two boxes will allow you to move left and right and forward and backward.
To go down (slowly), make sure the top box is down, turn on the top disk and turn off the other disks. Then put the top box up, and it will lower the whole device. (If you want to go down quickly, turn off all the disks. You will get down).

Something seems off about this vehicle, but I'm not quite sure what... (I could get it to work if I could get the materials...)

Tellah
2007-04-15, 01:46 AM
RAW does not prohibit it. RAI, you can continue to mince words.

"Mince words?" Did you miss the part where two people in this thread directly quoted the FAQ, which explicitly states that you cannot ride the disk?

Ditto
2007-04-15, 08:04 AM
MusScribe, that's exactly the thing I'm not trying to defend.

Nothing says you cannot be carried by your own disk. I maintain it's distinct from riding.

Rigeld2
2007-04-15, 10:28 AM
RAW does prohibit it - the FAQ is RAW. You cant ride it.
definition of ride: "be carried or travel on or in a vehicle" or "sit and travel on the back of animal, usually while controlling its motions".
If the TFD is carrying you, you are riding it, by definition. You can sit on it, but the TFD cant move. That is RAW.

Matthew
2007-04-15, 01:16 PM
Have to agree with Rigeld. That kind of semantic distinction is just silly.