Multiclass Bard

[F1zban]

Hi Forum,

Playing in a game with a valour bard. At level 6 I'm feeling like there isn't a lot beyond more spells. I'm loving the class and the character, but with two other primary casters in the group I'll just be spell backup. My current playstyle is to get into melee and buff/debuff. Thinking of adding more combat prowess to the mix. Without stepping on toes my options are fighter and monk. I can go ranger but what I'm after will be better provided by a fighter.

Advice would be welcome.

Thanks.

[jaydubs]

We could give better advice if we knew what you had to work with. What's your build so far? Race, stats, and did you take any feats?

Also, when you say you want more combat prowess, can you be more specific? Just any kind of combat prowess (aka buff, support, control, etc.)? Or are you looking to personally kill things? Are you attached to melee, or is it just how you've been playing so far?

My more generalized advice - I'd stick with bard at least until I got magical secrets at level 10. I'd also consider a feat at level 8. I'd use those two to get really good at my chosen form of combat. A paladin smite, or dissonant whispers with war caster, or if ranged sharpshooter and swift quiver.

[F1zban]

Human Bard 6

STR 10, DEX 16, CON 19 (Amulet of Health), INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 20 (+2 increase)

no feats.

1st turn - Sleep spell (Max level)

2nd turn - Draw main hand short sword, thunderwave.

3rd turn - Draw off-hand short sword, engage.

4th turn + - move to provide flanking, alternate between off hand attack and inspire courage.

Party - Wizard (Ranged), Barbarian (Melee), Rogue (Ranged, will engage for sneak attacks), Cleric (Melee, AOE spell damage).

Options:

Fighter
- +3 off hand damage

- Maneuvers
Commander's Strike
Maneuvering Attack
Pushing Attack
Trip Attack

- Will get 2nd attack at class level 5, character level 11. GM is generous, would like to see the mechanic in action, and would like a reason to bump up the CR (lol).

Going to use the additional fighter levels to provide personal survivability, and to provide warlord like functionality to the party.

Monk:
- Unarmoured Defence, removing a money sink for the party. We won't have to buy armour for me, it's getting to be expensive per character.

- KI, Flurry of Blows (More extra attacks), Step of the Wind (mobility for providing flank bonus)

- Shadow Step, more mobility (not to mention cool as hell).

Ok so there are my stats and options. Hope this helps.

Thanks again.

(Edit)

Actually, having put this into writing and seeing the above, kinda makes me think a fighter is the better option.

[jaydubs]

You should already have a second attack from valor bard 6. And extra attack from multiple classes usually doesn't stack. But if you're DM is allowing it, yeah. That's pretty generous. In that case, I'd ask if that applies to other classes as well. If so, you might also consider getting some mileage out of classes like the warlock or paladin, who also have ways of getting a second attack, and have better use for that charisma than fighters.

[F1zban]

Cool, I'll look into the warlock.

The GM will only allow stacking attacks with the fighter most likely. It's the only class that gets more than two.

Thanks again.

[Grand Warchief]

I personally think the Paladin goes well with the bard. Those smites go a long way for the extra damage and with 6 levels of bard already, when you hit 8 you'll be adding up to 5d8 damage on your attacks. Also, ask your dm if the variant rule Spell Points are ok. They effectively remove spell slots and replace them with mana (if you're familiar with that concept) which gives even more mileage to your Paladin bard combo. I have one of these in my campaign right now and it's silly fun :)

[F1zban]

Yeah, I was looking at the paladin, need 13 str though.

[Giant2005]

Actually, having put this into writing and seeing the above, kinda makes me think a fighter is the better option.
I'm not sure why that is.
Just looking at you list makes it faily obvious that the Monk is the superior option imo. The Monk's bonus action only inflicts 1 damage less than the fighter's off-hand shortsword attack on average and the Monk bonuses are far superior to Battlemaster Maneuvers. It will also make you combat ready as early as round 1 if you wished (Only need to draw a single weapon).

[Mandragola]

My suggestion would be to stick with bard if I'm honest. Pick spells that complement the other guys and probably go for a bow to hurt stuff. Take swift quiver at level 10 and become a machine gun.

A good alternative would be to multiclass as a warlock, if you could justify doing so in-game (since selling your soul is kind of more of a big deal than deciding to spend more time practising with a sword!). And then basically you're a machine gun from level 1, but you've also got the option of wearing medium armour and a shield - so you're kind of a machine gun that has its own sandbag emplacement. :smallbiggrin:

The great thing about warlock levels is you can just use it as a two-level dip if you want. Grab agonising blast and devil's sight if you want, then go back to bard levels.

It does slightly waste your martial stuff from the valour thing if you are killing people with eldritch blast though. An alternative to warlock levels would be to stay a bard and grab spell sniper at level 8. Take eldritch blast as your cantrip and you'd have quite a good ranged attack... just not loads better than shooting things with a bow I guess. I basically still think staying ranger gives you the best ranged killing ability.

Also, while obviously your DM is allowed to do anything they want, the book does explicitly state that getting multiple attacks from different sources doesn't stack. So stacking fighter levels on your existing character ends up basically wasting a few of the features you get from being a valour bard, like the proficiencies and attack. When you hit level 11 you'd basically just be worse than if you were a lore bard/fighter. In any case, I don't think fighter levels on a valour bard would create a better character than sticking with bard. Yes, you mainly get spells as you level - but those spells are really good!

[F1zban]

@Mandragola

Continuing as a bard was something I looked at. Being a 3rd primary caster in the group just seems bland to me. Again I am loving the class as it is, but I'm looking for more panache, not just more spells, complimentary though they may be.

Warlock is a no, I say to my GM that the king (Kingmaker Campaign) want's to sell his soul, he'll demand I change my character name to Frank Underwood.

Eldritch blast with a shield and medium armour.... not a bad idea. At level 10 I can use secret to get chill touch or something similar. That way I'm seamlessly switching between ranged and (almost) melee. This added with more combat assisting spells could do what I want. Granted it's not what I was looking for but this makes for an option I can be satisfied with.

Those combat maneuvers would be worth wasting proficiencies, the ability to help the barbarian and rogue get into more strategic locations will be valuable.

@Giant2005,

Fighter would be better for me as it better facilitates team play, the monk is cool sure, but the fighter can make my character more of a team player.

Thanks all again, this is all great!