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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Arcane Tradition: Universalist



DanyBallon
2015-03-27, 07:20 PM
Universalist
Instead of specializing in a school of magic, you decide to explore magic in itself.

Advanced Learning
Beginning when you select this tradition at 2nd level, you add one more wizard spell of your choice (for a total of 3) to your spellbook when you learn new spells every level.

Arcane Research
At 6th level, you create a new arcane spell of 3rd level or lower. The spell could replicate the effects of a spell of the same level from another class or be entirely new. Talk with you DM to determine what effect is of appropriate level.

Greater Arcane Recovery
Starting at 10th level, your arcane recovery is more potent and you can recover spell slots with a combined level equal to your wizard level.

Greater Arcane Research
At 14th level, you create a new arcane spell of 7th level or lower, or 2 spells of 3rd level or lower. The spell could replicate the effects of a spell of the same level from another class or be entirely new. Talk with you DM to determine what effect is of appropriate level.

PotatoGolem
2015-03-28, 12:57 AM
Is the 2nd level ability supposed to be that you gain an additional spell at every level, or just 2nd? Currently reads as just 2nd. If it's just 2nd, it's very weak. If it's every level, it's very strong.

As a whole, this subclass seems a touch too powerful for me. You're essentially getting Magical Secrets, one of the best bard abilities, plus more spells known, plus more spells per day. I'd tone it down some.

DanyBallon
2015-03-28, 06:47 AM
Thanks for your input,
Advanced Learning get you to learn one more spell per level. I'll edit my post so it's more clear.
As for Greater Arcane Recovery, would 3/4 your wizards level be better?

You see at first I tough it was to weak, as wizards can write down as many spell they want if they find a spellbook. Also, researching spells, in previous editions, always been available to wizards, I just created a mechanic that incite players to do so. I tough it compared well with the other Arcane Traditions, but I can be wrong. :smallbiggrin:

PotatoGolem
2015-03-28, 12:57 PM
Yeah, 3/4 wizard level is more balanced. I think that brings it more in line with the others. I agree with you that the whole spell-research thing was one of the coolest aspects of wizards, and it's a bummer that it's been mostly taken out. And I guess the greater number of spells isn't that big a boost in a campaign where scrolls and books are readily available.

zhdarkstar
2015-03-28, 04:22 PM
Instead of Advanced Learning, give them an extra wizard cantrip and the ability to change the damage/save type of a spell up to Int mod times per long rest.

As for Arcane Research, how about making it a Magical Secrets Lite for those who prefer not to deal with spell research rules? Gain 1-2 spells from any class list with a combined level of up to X, no cantrips allowed. Don't count as wizard spells for Spell Mastery/Signature Spells if not also found on the wizard list.

DanyBallon
2015-03-28, 05:23 PM
Instead of Advanced Learning, give them an extra wizard cantrip and the ability to change the damage/save type of a spell up to Int mod times per long rest.

As for Arcane Research, how about making it a Magical Secrets Lite for those who prefer not to deal with spell research rules? Gain 1-2 spells from any class list with a combined level of up to X, no cantrips allowed. Don't count as wizard spells for Spell Mastery/Signature Spells if not also found on the wizard list.

Wouldn't your modification to Advanced Learning be too powerful?

Arcane Research is already a variation of Magical Secret but that allow you to name your version of the spell, no need to create a spell from scratch :) The restriction for Spell Mastery and Signature Spells is an interesting addition.

zhdarkstar
2015-03-29, 11:28 AM
When I think of an universalist in terms of the 5e Wizard schools, I picture someone who is specialized in tweaking spells to fit the situation at hand. Since metamagic is the domain of the Sorcerer, something scaled down would be an acceptable substitute.

While my version may seem too powerful, it's still a limited resource that caps out at 5 and is tied to another limited resource, spell slots. Your version gives the universalist a lot of free wealth and downtime over 19 levels.

Flashy
2015-03-30, 02:51 AM
I'm uncertain how I feel about Arcane Research. Creating a homebrew class ability that relies on creating multiple additional homebrews for each individual character seems risky in terms of balance and potentially too time consuming. As suggested I think it would benefit from the removal of the custom spell option (though players should definitely feel free to rename them to their heart's content). I actually think this subclass just barely doesn't jive with the concept you're looking for. A universalist isn't a better wizard than any of the other subclasses, just one with a more academic approach to magic as a whole.


Flashy's Suggestions
Advanced Learning: I'd suggest changing advanced learning to advantage on arcana checks. It's pretty useful and it gives the sense of a more broadly educated wizard rather than one who has specialized in a particular discipline. A universalist will have a much higher chance of passing standard arcana DCs, but won't be any more able to reach exceptional DCs than a specialist wizard.

Arcane Research: Keep the arcane secret refluffs with the homebrew spell options stripped out. That seems essentially fine.

Greater Arcane Recovery: Definitely drop the arcane recovery to 3/4 level, but it might also be fun to add the restriction that no more than half the spell levels recovered can be from any single school. A universalist should have class features that require them to cast a wide variety of spells.

Greater Arcane Research: As above.

DanyBallon
2015-03-30, 07:36 AM
I'm uncertain how I feel about Arcane Research. Creating a homebrew class ability that relies on creating multiple additional homebrews for each individual character seems risky in terms of balance and potentially too time consuming. As suggested I think it would benefit from the removal of the custom spell option (though players should definitely feel free to rename them to their heart's content). I actually think this subclass just barely doesn't jive with the concept you're looking for. A universalist isn't a better wizard than any of the other subclasses, just one with a more academic approach to magic as a whole.


Flashy's Suggestions
Advanced Learning: I'd suggest changing advanced learning to advantage on arcana checks. It's pretty useful and it gives the sense of a more broadly educated wizard rather than one who has specialized in a particular discipline. A universalist will have a much higher chance of passing standard arcana DCs, but won't be any more able to reach exceptional DCs than a specialist wizard.

Arcane Research: Keep the arcane secret refluffs with the homebrew spell options stripped out. That seems essentially fine.

Greater Arcane Recovery: Definitely drop the arcane recovery to 3/4 level, but it might also be fun to add the restriction that no more than half the spell levels recovered can be from any single school. A universalist should have class features that require them to cast a wide variety of spells.

Greater Arcane Research: As above.

My design philosophy behind the universalist was to recreate the feel that not all wizards are specialist. In fact in previous editions most wizards were universalit and being a specialised wizard meant that you were much more powerful in your field of expertise, but there was also a serious drawback as you were limited from (or when, depending on the edition) casting spells from opposing school. There's no such thing in 5e and I'm not trying to put them back in either, I just want to get a Universalist tradition that is appealing to wizards who don't whant to be specialised.

I like your idea to replace Advanced Learning with advantage on Arcana check.
On Arcane Research, I'm more inclined to leave it open ended as it is now. If a DM don't want to mess with creating new spell, he can just say so, the player will still be able to rebrand a spell from an other class.

I reconsider Greater Arcane Recovry and it is definatly too powerful, even with 3/4...
What if once per short rest, it allow to modify one parameter (range, damage type, shape) of a spell, kind of like metamagic, but more limited not to step on the sorcerer toes?

asorel
2015-04-02, 06:37 AM
I've been thinking of how to implement an Arcane Generalist myself. I was considering adding a variant of the [School] Savant feature that the other traditions have, such as paying only three quarters cost for all spell components and inscriptions. This wouldn't replace your current second level feature, as the other schools have both Savant and a different second level feature.

DanyBallon
2015-04-02, 08:24 AM
The way I see it, [school] Savant is an advantage due to their specialisation into their school. I'm not qite sure a generalist should benefit from it. That's why at first I thought about giving them 1 more spell when they learn new spell every level.

Flashy's idea to give them instead Advantage on Arcana checks, will be more useful and still be thematic for a wizard that has a wide variety of field of magical knowledge.

Otherwise, it could be Expertise to 2 int based skill?

asorel
2015-04-02, 03:13 PM
Although Expertise as a generalist ability seems oxymoronic, I prefer it to Advantage, primarily because it's always going to be useful. If you can reliably get Advantage from some other source, that class feature stops being relevant. On a related note, there are a lot of things that grant Advantage, but only a few that grant Expertise.

DanyBallon
2015-04-02, 03:53 PM
Although Expertise as a generalist ability seems oxymoronic, ...

Yeah you're right :smallbiggrin: But to be a real generalist, we should give him competence with more skills (all int based?) but I feel it's kinda boring...

asorel
2015-04-02, 04:01 PM
Yeah you're right :smallbiggrin: But to be a real generalist, we should give him competence with more skills (all int based?) but I feel it's kinda boring...

Don't get me wrong, I am receptive to the idea. Two INT-based skills is probably fine, though I feel that something representing magic itself should be included in the early features, rather than merely general knowledge. There's still a 2nd-level feature slot remaining, from the ___ Savant feature.