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View Full Version : Roleplaying Amount of information given to players.



MrUberGr
2015-04-02, 04:36 PM
I've been thinking of various plot hoots and other interesting plot points that might change the course of the game, according to what the players know or not.

For example, suppose a players receives a magic item with the "Covetous" quirk (5e thingy, makes the player "obsessed with material wealth"). As a DM, what am I supposed to tell the player? You have a weapon with "these" properties, what's the point? IMO it would be more interesting if a session or two later, I'd just tell him "you're starting to become a greedy bastard, roleplay this way", and let him figure out what and why.

Also, I was thinking of a "trap" set by slaads where, if a player triggers it, they get the disease effect of the red slaad. An egg is implanted and three months later he dies, if it isn't "cure disease". What am I supposed to say: "you've contracted a slaad egg". That would end the entire thing within an hour or two. However not saying anything, would lead to him smacking me since I never gave him a clue. What sort of hint could I drop? Would "you're feeling chest pain", or "you're as green as a cucumber and start vomiting" be enough/too much?

Finally, having created my own setting, should I give them information about many thing or should I let them discover it slowly as they travel the world? I'm guessing everyone should know some bits of history, and how everything came to be but knowing stuff about a place they've never been seems a bit off.

Kane0
2015-04-02, 05:16 PM
1) Gradual effects are a good way to do it. Dont give away the items effect outright, just give them feelings. Something like "you dont feel like parting with your gold that much anymore" or "the party has definitely noticed that Jord has got a bit more greedy lately, especially with that new sword he got"

2) subtle hints like describing discomfort and an entry wound on thr skin should do it. If they forget or disregard just give them a little reminder later on, a little bit worse. Rule of three applies, three hints is a good number and three opportunities to look into it followed by three warnings before he ends up at serious risk at dying.

3) give them common knowledge to start with, then give them additional information when something specific comes up that they would know about. Make sure they have enough to work with, but not enough to know the nehind the scenes stuff.

TheIronGolem
2015-04-02, 06:23 PM
For example, suppose a players receives a magic item with the "Covetous" quirk (5e thingy, makes the player "obsessed with material wealth"). As a DM, what am I supposed to tell the player? You have a weapon with "these" properties, what's the point? IMO it would be more interesting if a session or two later, I'd just tell him "you're starting to become a greedy bastard, roleplay this way", and let him figure out what and why.


NEVER tell a player how to roleplay their own character. Ever. No, not even then.

Instead, tell them about something that's happening and let them decide how the character reacts to it.

To use your "covetous weapon" example, tell the player something like "You find that thoughts of wealth and material possessions are leaping unbidden into your mind, seemingly from nowhere" or "You start having inexplicable bouts of anxiety at the idea of parting with money, and it's slowly getting worse."

The player might decide that their character will roll with those thoughts and start acting greedy and miserly. Or they might decide their character freaks out and overcompensates by divesting him/herself of wealth in an effort to cure their new feelings of greed. Those are only two of many valid choices.

Keltest
2015-04-02, 06:29 PM
NEVER tell a player how to roleplay their own character. Ever. No, not even then.

Instead, tell them about something that's happening and let them decide how the character reacts to it.

To use your "covetous weapon" example, tell the player something like "You find that thoughts of wealth and material possessions are leaping unbidden into your mind, seemingly from nowhere" or "You start having inexplicable bouts of anxiety at the idea of parting with money, and it's slowly getting worse."

The player might decide that their character will roll with those thoughts and start acting greedy and miserly. Or they might decide their character freaks out and overcompensates by divesting him/herself of wealth in an effort to cure their new feelings of greed. Those are only two of many valid choices.

Indeed. You could go one step further and start going into great detail about how beautiful that jeweled scepter over there is. How it looks like it is just begging to be held...

But only to that player. If someone else asks what it looks like, its just kind of shiny, and it might be worth a bit at the local pawn shop.

Thrudd
2015-04-02, 06:42 PM
Players should ideally only know what their characters know about the world and the items they find.

In regards to history, remember that not all people are educated, and some societies don't know how the world came to be. They have stories and myths and legends, sure. Players should know common stories told in the part of the world they are from. This doesn't mean those stories are all true or completely accurate.

jaydubs
2015-04-02, 06:55 PM
For example, suppose a players receives a magic item with the "Covetous" quirk (5e thingy, makes the player "obsessed with material wealth"). As a DM, what am I supposed to tell the player? You have a weapon with "these" properties, what's the point? IMO it would be more interesting if a session or two later, I'd just tell him "you're starting to become a greedy bastard, roleplay this way", and let him figure out what and why.

Just drop mentions of sudden, unexpected feelings that rush through the character, but leave the actual choices and reactions to the player in question.


Also, I was thinking of a "trap" set by slaads where, if a player triggers it, they get the disease effect of the red slaad. An egg is implanted and three months later he dies, if it isn't "cure disease". What am I supposed to say: "you've contracted a slaad egg". That would end the entire thing within an hour or two. However not saying anything, would lead to him smacking me since I never gave him a clue. What sort of hint could I drop? Would "you're feeling chest pain", or "you're as green as a cucumber and start vomiting" be enough/too much?

You should err on the side of giving more hints, rather than less. The downside of giving too many hints, is that the players cure it quickly and easily. Not super interesting, but no real negative consequences for the campaign. The downside of giving too few, is a seriously pissed off player or players.

Make sure the player gets a con save. And if he fails, he's infected. Then give a few perception checks (from the infected player) and a few heal checks from any proficient party members over the next 3 months. In the last 24 hours, he becomes extremely ill. Green as a cucumber, vomiting, feels like your stomach is trying to crawl itself up your throat. Half speed and disadvantage on everything is a serious illness. Maybe add a perception check to even see something moving around under his skin.


Finally, having created my own setting, should I give them information about many thing or should I let them discover it slowly as they travel the world? I'm guessing everyone should know some bits of history, and how everything came to be but knowing stuff about a place they've never been seems a bit off.

Give enough exposition or write-up for them to have a general feel for the world. Then, whenever it would matter in a given context, give them common information. Finally, ask for knowledge checks whenever a situation calls for more obscure information. That's exactly what knowledge skills are for - knowing obscure things outside the common knowledge.

Basically, you just want to avoid "my character totally would have known that" or "well in that case I would have done something different."

Pex
2015-04-02, 10:45 PM
Players should ideally only know what their characters know about the world and the items they find.

In regards to history, remember that not all people are educated, and some societies don't know how the world came to be. They have stories and myths and legends, sure. Players should know common stories told in the part of the world they are from. This doesn't mean those stories are all true or completely accurate.

Nor automatically false or misleading and could be very accurate. Characters can know stuff a player hasn't a clue his character should know nor even need to ask to know. How to handle it isn't defined. A barbarian proficient in Survival is going to know what to look for in swamps to avoid quicksand. He doesn't necessarily even need to roll. The player, meanwhile, may know nothing of the terrain geology of swamps. The party traveling in a swamp should not just blindly fall into quicksand because it would be "interesting" or "challenging" or "funny".

"Doesn't necessarily" does not equate to never. It can still be a fair call for the DM to ask the barbarian player to make a Survival check DC 10 perhaps taking into account the barbarian had never been in this particular swamp before so it's not automatic quicksand avoidance but he knows enough for a good chance. If the player is new to the game the DM asks for the roll and does not penalize the party falling into quicksand automatically because the player never asked for a check. However, it is prudent for the player to learn to ask for checks on his own as par for the course of playing the game. Still, even experienced players may forget to ask. That doesn't mean the barbarian character suddenly forgot his proficiency, needing the DM to prompt for the roll. Yes, this even holds true for rogues searching for traps but the player didn't say he searches for traps first on something. The rogue character knows to do so, though as well it is prudent for the player to learn to say he searches for traps. If players are experienced and should know better to mention using Survival, searching for traps, etc., for the one instance they don't and the DM prompts for a roll it could be fair for the DM to secretly increase the DC by 5 max DC 25 to reflect the character had a brain flatulence reflecting that DM prompt.

Thrudd
2015-04-02, 11:30 PM
Nor automatically false or misleading and could be very accurate. Characters can know stuff a player hasn't a clue his character should know nor even need to ask to know. How to handle it isn't defined. A barbarian proficient in Survival is going to know what to look for in swamps to avoid quicksand. He doesn't necessarily even need to roll. The player, meanwhile, may know nothing of the terrain geology of swamps. The party traveling in a swamp should not just blindly fall into quicksand because it would be "interesting" or "challenging" or "funny".

"Doesn't necessarily" does not equate to never. It can still be a fair call for the DM to ask the barbarian player to make a Survival check DC 10 perhaps taking into account the barbarian had never been in this particular swamp before so it's not automatic quicksand avoidance but he knows enough for a good chance. If the player is new to the game the DM asks for the roll and does not penalize the party falling into quicksand automatically because the player never asked for a check. However, it is prudent for the player to learn to ask for checks on his own as par for the course of playing the game. Still, even experienced players may forget to ask. That doesn't mean the barbarian character suddenly forgot his proficiency, needing the DM to prompt for the roll. Yes, this even holds true for rogues searching for traps but the player didn't say he searches for traps first on something. The rogue character knows to do so, though as well it is prudent for the player to learn to say he searches for traps. If players are experienced and should know better to mention using Survival, searching for traps, etc., for the one instance they don't and the DM prompts for a roll it could be fair for the DM to secretly increase the DC by 5 max DC 25 to reflect the character had a brain flatulence reflecting that DM prompt.

Nobody's talking about character skills. Nobody expects the players to actually know how to don and doff armor, fight with a sword, or cast magic spells either.

We're talking about information about the world and its history...like whether or not the gods are real and if dragons exist and how the world was formed. Also, what the properties of a given magic item might be, and if you need to tell the players things their characters don't know yet, such as when they have been infected by a disease.

Magic item properties are discovered through trial and error or identify spells, not automatically known by players. Diseases affect the character slowly over time, the effects should be described and let the players figure out something is wrong and deduce where it came from.

goto124
2015-04-03, 12:42 AM
Indeed. You could go one step further and start going into great detail about how beautiful that jeweled scepter over there is. How it looks like it is just begging to be held...

But only to that player. If someone else asks what it looks like, its just kind of shiny, and it might be worth a bit at the local pawn shop.

I was about to ask 'how do you do this without constantly taking the player out of the room/passing notes', then I thought that secrecy isn't so crucial, and things like this can be done in front of other players anyway.

I won't even wait for other players to ask. I'll say 'Player1, the scepter is made of the finest gold that shines as bright as the afternoon sun, and it's design is of a intricately carved dragon. You can make out the smallest of details, down to the scales and teeth, enough to give you a whoozy feeling....'

'GM? Are you done?'

'Everyone else just sees a boring old yellow scepter. Nothing special.'

veti
2015-04-03, 04:41 AM
Disease is the most straightforward answer. You tell the player "you're feeling ill". Probably starts off as something nonspecific, like headaches and lethargy, gradually developing through nausea, abdominal pains, chest pains...

At each stage there should be a corresponding stat penalty, starting at something like -1 INT (headache makes it hard to concentrate), escalating to something like -6 each to STR, DEX, INT and CHA by the time the character is ready to hatch. If that's not enough of a hint that a cure would be a good idea, then there's no helping them.

Of course, you should also be applying penalties at the light end of the scale routinely, to give players the feeling that diseases are a thing in this world. Most will simply clear up in a few days. Without these "regular" diseases, telling any player that their character is feeling poorly is as good as saying "you've got something nasty, get a cure ASAP".

For covetousness, I would start hinting to the player that all his teammates seem to have better stuff than he does, relatively speaking. Plant the suspicion that either he's not getting his fair share of the loot, or he's entitled to More for some reason.

Maglubiyet
2015-04-05, 12:33 PM
Mouthpiece NPC's can help. The PC's local contact in the city, a member of the same guild, the mayor, an innkeeper -- quest givers that add in details like: "Of course, as well all know, the great City of Mephibast was founded by Prince Gulvar after the Efreeti Wars. He used the captured genies to carve the royal palace out of solid basalt and imprisoned their caliph in the headpiece of his sceptre. We've all heard the stories."

Darth Ultron
2015-04-06, 01:26 AM
The Game Way Lots of people do it this way. Not me though. This is where the DM tells the player every game detail that in any way effects the character. So you'd just say ''your character has an slaad egg now''. Theoretically the player will have the character act like they don't know the information. Assuming you have players that want to play that way. A lot of player ''sort of'' pretend like the character does not know, and then do utter metagaming things like ''say my character goes to a temple and has a cure disease spell cast on him for no reason''

The Description Role Play Way This is for more storytelling players. This is where the DM just describes the effects, and the player is free to act on them. Though it only work with storytelling players that will ''play along''. Other types of player, at the first sign of anything, will just roll, roll and roll some more till they know what it is and cure/fix it.

Alternate Reality This is the way I do it...and it's great. However it only works with good, understanding players that want to role play and have the player experience things. It's not too popular, as the DM must basically lie to the player. And that drives lots of players crazy. But if you have the kind of players that don't feel that way, it's lots of fun.


The World Well the standard way is to just give the characters some basics, and maybe a bit of special knowledge to each character about something. This often makes players happy. Though, I like the Alternative Reality approach, where the characters and players must find out everything through game play. It's much more fun, engaging and immersive. But it's not for all player.

goto124
2015-04-06, 03:15 AM
I'm glad you adknowledge the existance of different gameplay styles, even if you don't personally like some of them.