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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next A class much like the Warlord, but easier to accommodate



weaseldust
2015-04-15, 08:38 PM
PREAMBLE

There’s nothing wrong with the idea of a class that contributes to combat by assisting their allies as much as by attacking things with their own weapons. But the Warlord as traditionally conceived works by giving advice or instructions and inspiring their allies. That can tread on the toes of players whose character concept is inconsistent with being advised, ordered about or inspired by the Warlord. If I’m playing a chaotic, arrogant, cynical elf, presumably I think my character won’t stand for being bossed about by the lawful dwarf Warlord and won’t be inspired by anything they can do. (To a lesser extent, it treads on the toes of all other players who want to play reasonably competent characters, in that their characters suddenly become capable of much more when being advised by a Warlord, suggesting that they were significantly underachieving on their own.)

Another issue for the traditional Warlord is that their effectiveness depends on the number of allies they have. In particular, if they’re alone, e.g. because they become separated from the party, they are far less capable than a character of equal level of another class.

These problems don’t show that the Warlord is a bad class. They just make it harder to accommodate than other classes if your group doesn’t have the opportunity or desire to build a party around it. For that reason, I set out to create a Warlord-esque class that assists and enhances the actions of its allies but whose assistance can easily be fluffed in a way that doesn’t require that their allies respect them or need them to maximise their potential, and who can operate alone if need be. I’m happy if Warlord-lovers feel unable to call the result a true Warlord – I’m not trying to replace the original, just make a more convenient alternative - but I think it retains a lot of the flavour.

The three guiding ideas are the following: the Warlord makes opportunities for allies to do extra damage, as represented by ‘opportunity dice’, which they gain more of as they increase in level; the Warlord can assist individual allies using the Help action, as every character can, but is better at doing so than characters of other classes; the Warlord gains one of (at present) two ways of tactically interfering in combat via their choice of archetype.

weaseldust
2015-04-15, 08:41 PM
CLASS DETAILS


Hit dice: d8

Proficient saves: Intelligence and wisdom

Weapon/armour proficiencies: All weapons except those that require two hands, all armour, shields

Skills: Any three from: Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Investigation, Persuasion, Perception

Level-by-level Plan

(I know most people insert a table here, but I honestly never saw the point in 5th Edition where you don't have the various saves to keep track of. Also, they take forever and are hard to format. Let me know if I'm letting the side down by not adding one, though.)

Level 1:


Tactical Initiative
Quickness of mind serves you better than quickness of body

When you roll for initiative, you make an intelligence check rather than a dexterity check.

War Lore
Study and experience have left you familiar with various aspects of warfare

You may add your proficiency to an intelligence check to establish your knowledge about any of the following, whether or not you are proficient in the skill usually required: military history, weapons, fortifications, military strategy, or maps. This does not allow you to add your proficiency twice if you are already proficient in the relevant skill.

Opportunity Dice
You are adept at opening opportunities for your allies to exploit

You have access to one opportunity die per turn. This increases by one for every two levels you gain in this class (i.e. to 2 at level 3, 3 at level 5, etc.)
(Details on how these work later. Long story short: You basically attach Sneak Attack dice to creatures you hit, and your allies get to add the damage from the dice when they hit the same creature.)

Level 2:


Proactive Tactician
You skilfully manoeuvre through and direct combat

You may use your bonus action to take either the Disengage action or the Help action

Level 3:


You gain an archetype. (These are also detailed later)

You have 2 opportunity dice.

Level 4:


ASI

Level 5:


Cruel Opportunist
When you exploit your enemies’ vulnerabilities, you weaken their spirit, through inflicting pain, fear, or a proper sense of their inferiority

When you attach opportunity dice to a creature, you may take half of them (rounding down) and deal 1d6 psychic damage per die to it immediately; the remaining dice (half the usual number, rounding up) are attached to it normally.

You have 3 opportunity dice.

Level 6:


Coordinating Tactician
You are adept at the messy work of managing large groups of people

When you use the Help action to give a creature advantage on a task in which other creatures are assisting, every creature cooperating on that task who can hear you gains advantage on any ability checks required to complete it.
Further, you have advantage on insight, intimidation and persuasion checks that target crowds; you have a powerful speaking voice that can be heard over moderately noisy crowd, and a shout that can be heard over the noisiest of crowds.

Level 7:


You advance in your archetype.

You have 4 opportunity dice.

Level 8:


ASI

Level 9:


No-one’s Fool
You are quick to analyse and adapt to face dangers

You may add your intelligence bonus to any save made against an effect that you have already had to save against in the last minute.

You have 5 opportunity dice.

Level 10:


Coordinated Retreat
Any Warlord who has survived this long is well-accustomed to running away, which includes distracting enemies or keeping them off balance to allow allies to do the same

When you take the Disengage action, you may choose any number of creatures within 10’ to lose their ability to make attacks of opportunity until the end of their next turn.

Level 11:


You advance in your archetype.

You have 6 opportunity dice.

Level 12:


ASI

Level 13:


Adaptable Opportunist
Your alertness allows you to play on your allies’ successes

When you attach opportunity dice to a creature, record the amount and type of the damage dealt to the target by any attack made since the start of your previous turn. Until the end of your next turn, if an attack activates the opportunity dice on that creature, the creature who made the attack may choose to deal damage of that exact amount and type, rather than the usual d6 per die. Once they have replaced the damage from their attack, they may not add additional damage from any source or multiply the new damage (e.g. due to a critical hit).

You have 7 opportunity dice.

Level 14:


Supportive Tactician
You are swift to intervene when your allies are in danger

Whenever an adjacent creature is forced to make a save, you may use your reaction to take the Help action and give them advantage on that save; further, the creature may use your intelligence bonus instead of the bonus from their relevant stat, if they so choose.

Level 15:


You advance in your archetype.

You have 8 opportunity dice.

Level 16:


ASI

Level 17:


Ruthless Opportunist
You relentlessly press any advantage you spot against an enemy

Once per turn, when you make an attack, record the amount and type of the damage dealt to the target by any attack made since the start of your previous turn. If your attack hits and deals less damage than the amount recorded, you may replace all damage from your attack with the damage recorded, including the type. Once you have replaced the damage from your attack, you may not add additional damage from any source or multiply the new damage (e.g. due to a critical hit).

You have 9 opportunity dice.

Level 18:


Omnipresent Tactician
You are seemingly at the side of every one of your allies at once

Whenever any number of creatures within 10’ are forced to make a save, you may use your reaction to take the Help action and give them advantage on that save; further, the creatures may use your intelligence bonus instead of the bonus from their relevant stat, if they so choose.

Level 19:


ASI

You have 10 opportunity dice.

Level 20:


Far-seeing Opportunist
You have learned to anticipate and enable long chains of your allies’ actions

Whenever your opportunity dice on any creature would otherwise drop off, instead only d10 of them drop off.

weaseldust
2015-04-15, 08:52 PM
OTHER DETAILS

Opportunity dice:

Long story short: You basically attach Sneak Attack dice to creatures you hit, and your allies get to add the damage from the dice when they hit the same creature.

Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack, you may attach your opportunity dice to it. When you do so, name a damage type. If the creature is dealt damage of that type by an attack (or a spell that requires an attack roll; henceforth, ‘attack’ refers also to such spells), the creature that made the attack can choose to use the opportunity dice. When they do so, their attack deals an extra d6 damage of the same type for each opportunity die on the target. When the opportunity dice on a creature are used, they drop off and are no longer usable.
If the creature is dealt damage of another type by an attack, the creature that made the attack may choose to take an intelligence check with a DC equal to 10 or the CR of the target, whichever is higher. If they succeed, they may use the opportunity dice on the target to deal d6 damage per die of the same type as their attack.

You may attach opportunity dice to a creature that already has some opportunity dice attached, as long as the number of opportunity dice already attached is no higher than twice the number of opportunity dice you have available (i.e. 2 at level 1, 4 at level 3, etc.). If attaching all your opportunity dice would increase the number above that, you expend all your opportunity dice but increase the number attached only up to twice your number of opportunity dice.

When you score a critical hit against a creature, you may attach twice the usual amount of opportunity dice, so long as the above restrictions are observed.

On its turn, creature may choose to use its action to attempt to rid itself of any opportunity dice attached to it. They must make an intelligence save against a DC equal to 8 plus your proficiency bonus plus your intelligence. If multiple creatures have attached opportunity dice to it, the DC is calculated using the proficiency and intelligence bonuses of whichever creature would make the DC highest.


Archetype 1: Master of Improvisation

Level 3:


Tactical Improvisation
You are constantly on the lookout for ways to intervene in the events around you

As a bonus action, you may ready an action (state a trigger, which may not be one of your own actions, and an action to take if the trigger occurs). When you take your readied action, you may move up to 10’, plus any amount of movement you did not use during your turn, before and/or after the readied action. The actions you may ready are: the Disengage and Help actions; using or interacting with an object; or, with your DM’s consent, improvising an uncategorised action.

Level 7:


One Step Ahead
Your ability to read the cues in the behaviour of others allows you to keep ahead of the chaos around you

When the turn of the creature immediately before you in the initiative order comes around, if you can see that creature, you may use your reaction to move up the initiative order to take your turn immediately before theirs, both in the round you use your reaction and every subsequent round.
Further, you cannot be surprised so long as any ally you can see is not surprised.

Level 11:


At The Speed Of Thought
Your sharpness of mind allows you to anticipate threats or openings before they occur

When you ready an action with your bonus action, the readied action interrupts its trigger, being resolved first and potentially altering its consequences.

Level 15:


Disdainful Quickness
Your quick thinking keeps you and your allies beyond harm from those with more sluggish intellects

You have advantage on rolls for initiative; further, you may use your intelligence bonus instead of your dexterity bonus on dexterity saves against effects imposed on you by creatures (or events like lair actions) below you in the initiative order, and any creature you use the Help action on may, until the beginning of their next turn, use your intelligence bonus for those saves in the same way.


Archetype 2: Master of Preparation

Level 3:


Forward Planning
You never enter the fray without a plan to let you take control of the situation

Whenever you roll initiative and are not surprised, decide on a trigger as if readying an action and write it down (in secret, if you wish). The trigger must be an action taken by another creature or a significant change in an object or in the environment (e.g. a trap activating or rocks falling). If the trigger occurs, you may immediately take a full turn, i.e. an action, a potential bonus action, and a turn’s worth of movement. You do not gain an additional reaction. You may not activate this ability in the same round you gain an additional action by other means (e.g. Haste or Action Surge). You may choose not to activate the ability when the trigger occurs, but once you have done so you may not activate it again if the trigger occurs a second time.

Level 7:


Prepared Terrain
You are well aware of the importance of control over the field of battle

You may add your proficiency bonus twice to any ability check required for surveying and assessing terrain, identifying dangerous or difficult terrain and environmental hazards (e.g. loose rocks) or reading or writing maps. This does not allow you to add your proficiency bonus more than twice if you are already proficient in the relevant skills.
Further, you may add your proficiency bonus to any ability check required to locate, disarm, alter or construct traps or to alter an environmental hazard. This does not allow you to add your proficiency bonus more than once if you are already proficient in the relevant skills.

Level 11:


Look Before You Leap
Though you try to minimise the danger involved in your plans, when risks are necessary, you are always thoroughly ready for them

When a trigger you have written down occurs and you take an additional turn, you are resistant to damage taken from the triggering event and have advantage on any saves against its effects or checks made to interact with it.

Level 15:


Reader of People
Through a lifetime of observation, you are a quick and near-flawless judge of character and can use your ability to anticipate others’ behaviour to your advantage

You become proficient in the Insight skill if you are not already.
Whenever a creature you see attempts a save or check using a particular ability bonus, you may note the ability used and expend your reaction to make an Insight check. The DC of the check is 10 or the target’s CR, whichever is higher. If you succeed, roll 1d20. You may substitute the result (call it the ‘Insight Die’) for any d20 it rolls as part of a check or save using that noted ability to inflict an effect on you, or avoid an effect you wish to inflict on it. If a creature gains advantage or avoids having disadvantage on a skill check or save against the target as a result of your taking the Help action, it may substitute your Insight Die for the result in the same way. You may have at most one Insight Die active for any creature at any time. You lose your Insight Die when it is used or when you attempt to gain another Insight Die against the same creature.

weaseldust
2015-04-15, 09:00 PM
COMMENTARY


On opportunity dice:

Opportunity dice are intended to account for the aid the Warlord gives its allies in attacking creatures. They might represent creating a weakness, e.g. by damaging a knights armour, leaving a steel bolt in the dragons temple to be targeted by a lightning spell, positioning the ogre so its throat is exposed to blades, etc., or merely by pointing out weaknesses or opportunities for attack if the player thinks it appropriate. The player can fluff it however they like every time they attach opportunity dice.

The mechanics are intended to make using the dice require some display of competence on the part of the Warlord’s allies, and possibly some tactical thinking in getting the right ally to make the right attack. They also allow the Warlord to benefit from their own opportunity dice, which means they can be somewhat effective still if played solo or separated from their allies. The amount of damage added is obviously intended to increase at the same rate as Sneak Attack. I’d expect the opportunity dice to be successfully used roughly as often as a Sneak Attack is successfully pulled off.


On various details:

The hit dice and save proficiencies peg the Warlord as more of a thinker than a fighter, which is something I was aiming for. If anyone wants a more hands-on Warlord, there could be an archetype for that. Or there’s always multi-classing. I considered giving them access to all weapons and armour, but it would let them deal too much damage at low levels when you add their opportunity dice on top. I decided that if they’re going to be pointing, making gestures, or physically manipulating their enemies as part of adding opportunity dice then in makes sense they only use weapons that let them have a hand free. They’re still better off than Rogues in having access to d10 weapons and all armour, but the difference between d8 and d10 weapons isn’t that significant and Rogues don’t need or want heavy armour anyway because they have high dexterity and suffer more than usual from stealth penalties. They’re also better off than Monks, but the whole point of Monks is to not have much in the way of armour or weapons. They’re pretty much on a level with Clerics, equipment-wise, which I thought was appropriate.

They get three skills to be just that bit more skill-oriented than average without getting the expertise and so on that Rogues and Bards do. I considered putting more knowledge skills on the list, but it’s long enough already and if you want your Warlord to know lots about e.g. nature you can get that from your background.

The level 1 abilities are part fluff (which is extra important at early levels) but the initiative change lets them feel proactive in combat (which is important for the flavour of the class – see also the archetypes) without being tied to dexterity. They’re going to want high intelligence, have some interest in wisdom and constitution, and might also want decent charisma as part of their character concept. I didn’t tie any of their abilities to charisma so as not to spread them too thin, and because I like the idea of a quiet, or gruff, or introverted Warlord for whom high charisma might not be so appropriate, but there’s always room for an archetype that has abilities based on charisma.

The abilities gained at levels 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18 all relate to giving the Warlord something to do with their bonus action that will help to characterise their play-style in combat (and at level 6, outside combat). I really like the way that the roles of the Rogue and Monk are established by the bonus actions they can take. Of course, combining this with the opportunity dice makes the class progression look a lot like a Rogue’s at first, which wasn’t my initial intention, but once I had the idea for how opportunity dice should work, Sneak Attack was the obvious thing to balance it against, and in any case the Rogue seems to work pretty well as a class, so I’m not sorry. I briefly worried that being able to give someone advantage on an attack every turn at level 2 would amount to contributing a load more damage, but it turns out it’s not really that much and I expect you’ll mostly be using your bonus action for other things.

The ability gained at level 5 is intended to allow the Warlord to work better alone – otherwise, they can’t deal much damage on the first round of a combat – and let them eliminate weak enemies in a single round so they can move on to others.

The level 9 ability just makes them that bit more resilient, because it’s awkward when the leader/coordinator type on your team is the one being mind-controlled by the evil sorcerer.

The level 13 and 17 abilities are to increase the sensation of working as part of a team and make sure they keep up damage-wise when things start to get crazy at high levels.

The capstone might end up adding a bit too much extra damage. But I find it hard to take level 20 seriously anyway, and it’s almost impossible to balance level 20 abilities given the diversity of the existing ones. This one will help wear down really tough enemies – ancient dragons and so on.

The two archetypes I actually created are basically centred around different ways of making the Warlord feel tactically-minded and as if they are always concentrating on how to shape combat around them. I worry that I made the Master of Improvisation a bit too hyperactive. If you had a whole party of them, combat would take forever. Of course, you probably won’t choose to play one unless you like that kind of combat, and you can keep other players involved by having your readied actions trigger off their characters’ choices. Besides, you have other things to do with your bonus action and reaction, so you won’t ready an action every turn.

The Master of Preparation’s level 15 ability might be too strong; I’m not sure without playing it how often you’d choose to use the ability and how often it would come in handy. It’s worth noting that it is, and is intended to be, useful out of combat too – you can use your judgement of character to help the Rogue successfully pick the Mayor’s pocket, or whatever. I had to edit it after posting because outside of combat it let you keep rolling until you got a 1 or 20 to really screw the target over. It technically still does, but you'd need to follow the target around making them take repeated ability checks before you could do that, which is inconvenient enough that I thought a 'once per target per day' limitation, or something similar, would make a difference too infrequently to justify how clunky and artificial it would be.

As far as I can see, this Warlord could be safely multi-classed with anything, except maybe an Assassin Rogue, because they’d then get loads of opportunity dice on surprised creatures. I don’t see that being a big problem because you don’t deal any more damage than an ordinary Assassin. The only exception is when the ally that uses your opportunity dice also scores a critical hit, because then your opportunity dice are basically doubled twice. If you have another Assassin with you, things might get messy. But then, they’d get messy if there were just two straight Assassins instead.


On what I left out:

Notably absent are any abilities related to healing allies. I had trouble both finding room for them and also allowing them to be fluffed in a way that didn’t require the Warlord’s allies to view them as inspiring in some sense. After all, the feat Inspiring Leader is basically a source of traditionally Warlord-like healing, so it would be hard to add healing without treading on the toes of the feat and also borrowing from its fluff, and that fluff is exactly what I didn’t want my Warlord to be like. Of course, a Warlord could always just be good at physically healing people. Or, if you don’t think of HP as physical damage, at giving them really good massages that relax them and let them recover HP. But I think those abilities are again better accounted for as part of an archetype rather than the main class.

Other archetypes that could exist are a Warlord who casts spells (most classes have a spell-casting version) and a Warlord who inflicts status conditions through opportunity dice, since picking the right condition to inflict could get suitably tactical.

eleazzaar
2015-04-15, 11:45 PM
Sounds like a fun class.

I don't have any feedback on the balance, but some o the sections are pretty wordy. Especially the section explaining opportunity dice is dense and confusing. Probably I could figure it out, but it looks like a lot more work than most 5e features.

weaseldust
2015-04-16, 03:43 AM
Thanks, and that's an excellent point - it grew much longer than I realised because I was trying to cover all eventualities. I cut it back a bit, and made two niche rules optional.

PotatoGolem
2015-04-16, 08:53 AM
This is awesome! Seems pretty balanced too- similar damage to a rogue, but depends on your allies and makes them feel more awesome. I'd allow it in my games.

weaseldust
2015-04-17, 08:50 AM
Thanks! That was exactly my intention. To a lesser extent, you could achieve the same thing just by taking a Rogue and giving it opportunity dice instead of Sneak Attack dice. Their damage should remain roughly the same, but it would give them and their allies a chance to fluff exactly how they are doing damage together every time they use the dice. (E.g. "Hey, what if I leave a dagger wedged between two of the dragon's scales, and you use it as a handhold to clamber up and poke it in the eye." That kind of thing.)

Tenmujiin
2015-04-23, 10:43 AM
The class seems awesome but your formatting makes it hard to read. Personally I'd format it more like this:

Level 1


Tactical Initiative
Quickness of mind serves you better than quickness of body

When you roll for initiative, you make an intelligence check rather than a dexterity check.

War Lore
Study and experience have left you familiar with various aspects of warfare

You may add your proficiency to an intelligence check to establish your knowledge about any of the following, whether or not you are proficient in the skill usually required: military history, weapons, fortifications, military strategy, or maps. This does not allow you to add your proficiency twice if you are already proficient in the relevant skill.

Opportunity Dice
You are adept at opening opportunities for your allies to exploit

You have access to one opportunity die per turn. This increases by one for every two levels you gain in this class (i.e. to 2 at level 3, 3 at level 5, etc.)
(Details on how these work later. Long story short: You basically attach Sneak Attack dice to creatures you hit, and your allies get to add the damage from the dice when they hit the same creature.)

Level 2


Proactive Tactician
You skilfully manoeuvre through and direct combat

You may use your bonus action to take either the Disengage action or the Help action

Level 1


Tactical Initiative
Quickness of mind serves you better than quickness of body

When you roll for initiative, you make an intelligence check rather than a dexterity check.

War Lore
Study and experience have left you familiar with various aspects of warfare

You may add your proficiency to an intelligence check to establish your knowledge about any of the following, whether or not you are proficient in the skill usually required: military history, weapons, fortifications, military strategy, or maps. This does not allow you to add your proficiency twice if you are already proficient in the relevant skill.

Opportunity Dice
You are adept at opening opportunities for your allies to exploit

You have access to one opportunity die per turn. This increases by one for every two levels you gain in this class (i.e. to 2 at level 3, 3 at level 5, etc.)
(Details on how these work later. Long story short: You basically attach Sneak Attack dice to creatures you hit, and your allies get to add the damage from the dice when they hit the same creature.)

Level 2


Proactive Tactician
You skilfully manoeuvre through and direct combat

You may use your bonus action to take either the Disengage action or the Help action

DracoKnight
2015-04-24, 05:30 PM
I didn't read through the entire thread, but I read your background for this and think it would be best reworked as a Fighter subclass.

weaseldust
2015-04-24, 06:28 PM
The class seems awesome but your formatting makes it hard to read. Personally I'd format it more like this:

I can see what you mean. I was having issues with being timed out, so the formatting was done in a bit of a hurry, but I should really go back and fix it. I need to spoilerify some commentary as well so it's not so long. I'm glad you liked in in any case.



I didn't read through the entire thread, but I read your background for this and think it would be best reworked as a Fighter subclass.

The trouble is, the main driving ideas were giving allies extra damage and using bonus actions to assist them. You can't add those to the fighter without massively increasing its total damage output. You could maybe just add the various bonus action abilities as subclass abilities, that would be OK, but it would play differently than a Warlord. Or you could have manoeuvre dice like the Battlemaster and add them to enemies for your allies to activate. But that probably wouldn't be worth doing very often. The point of opportunity dice scaling like Sneak Attack dice is that they provide a significant chunk of damage, and thus a significant incentive to cooperate, at every level.

The fundamental issue is that fighters are good at dishing out and taking vast amounts of damage on their own, so you can't really make them need to think tactically and cooperate in the way a Warlord should.

I understand the desire not to add a class where a sub-class would do, though. If it helps, think of this as an unusual Rogue variant instead of a new class. I don't think 5e needs radically expanding, so I tried to stick to using existing concepts in a slightly innovative way.