Build Advice: The Battle Assassin

[Vichrae]

Looking for advice and suggestions on the following build. I should point out that our campaigns don't really go beyond 10th level, so it's important that characters blossom in the early-mid levels. What happens beyond that is likely never to matter.


The Battle Assassin

The idea behind this build is a character who is a stealthy rogue with a strong alpha strike and battlefield control options, with competent out of combat utility via skills.


Race:
Variant Human for +1/+1 and a feat (my table has a particular type of variant human that has Darkvision instead of a skill proficiency).

Background:
Spy (Proficiencies: Stealth, Deception, Gaming Set, Thieves’ Tools)

Stats:
8 STR, 14 CON, 16 DEX, 10 INT, 14 WIS, 12 CHA

Skills:
Stealth, Deception, Perception, Acrobatics, Investigation

Armor and Weapons:
Studded Leather, Rapier, Dagger, Longbow

Feats:
Sharpshooter

Level Progression:
1 Fighter 1 – Fighting Style (archery +2 hit), Second Wind, 2 Skills (Acrobatics, Perception)
2 Rogue 1 – Expertise (Stealth, Perception), 1 Skill (Investigation), Sneak Attack (1d6), Poisoner’s Kit
3 Rogue 2 – Cunning Action
4 Rogue 3 – Sneak Attack (2d6), Assassinate, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit
5 Fighter 2 – Action Surge
6 Fighter 3 – Battle Master (4d8 – Precision Attack, Menacing Attack, Maneuvering Attack), Smith Tools proficiency
7 Fighter 4 – DEX +2
8 Fighter 5 – Extra Attack
9 Rogue 4 – DEX +4
10 Rogue 5 – Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack (3d6)
11 Fighter 6 – ASI (Alert)
12 Rogue 6 – Expertise (Deception, Acrobatics)
13 Rogue 7 – Evasion, Sneak Attack (4d6)
14 Rogue 8 – ASI (Lucky)

Saves:
Constitution, Strength

Playstyle:
Stealth and snipe from long range when possible. Use combat superiority to help control battlefield). Outside of combat be a sneaky git (scouting, spying, deception).

[Person_Man]

Try to get Dex up another point or two if you can, even if it means dumping Int/Cha further. You'll want to get it to 20 ASAP. You might even be able to net a Feat that way.

If you play a lot of combats, then I personally prefer Champion Fighter to Battlemaster for multi-class Rogue builds. Improved Critical will be useful 5% of the time (including Opportunity Attacks), whereas maneuvers will be useful just a few times per Short Rest. Though obviously the reverse is true if you have fewer combats.

You might also want to consider Hunter Ranger instead of Fighter. That would give you Hoardbreaker or Colossus Slayer, Hunter's Mark, and Pass without Trace, plus Favored Enemy/Terrain, and an extra Skill Proficiency, and then your first level could be Rogue (instead of Fighter, which you presumably took first so you could avoid the Str requirement) which would give you another Skill proficiency.

Rogue Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395706-Person_Man%92s-5E-Rogue-Guide) you might want to look at.

[MrStabby]

I think you want riposte to get extra sneak attacks. It is pretty much the reason to go battlemaster if you are going for a dexterity build.

If you want to go Champion I would suggest going strength rather than dex.

[Kerleth]

Looks pretty good to me. Assassinate + Action Surge + Battlemaster dice are a scary, scary combination. One thing to point out though. Person Man's comment about multiclassing is just wrong.
1) Multiclassing requires you to meet BOTH classes ability score requirements.
2) The multiclass requirements for fighter are Str 13 OR Dex 13, so it doesn't really matter.
Going fighter first gets you heavy armor proficiency and a couple more hit points, as well as setting your saves to Strength and Constitution. Going rogue first gets you one more skill, and sets your saves to Dexterity and Intelligence. If I had to guess, going fighter first on this build would be to
1) set your saves to strength and constitution, giving you a better chance of not being swallowed, killed or debuffed, while depending on your good dexterity and eventually evasion to protect from common dexterity saves.
2) To allow the character to play as a tougher warrior type from level 1.

[Easy_Lee]

For a ranged build, I think that starting rogue would be better. I believe that dexterity and intellect saves will come up more often than strength and constitution at range, from people chucking fireballs and saves at you rather than trying to grapple or poison.

I don't think you need riposte because you're fighting at range. However, if you're going to go rapier + hand crossbow or something, then you want riposte.

I would consider picking up alert first and Sharpshooter second, before your dexterity bonuses. A big advantage of this character is pulling off a round of criticals at the start of combat. You want to win initiative as an assassin, so alert is important. Sharpshooter is also very strong early, when the +10 damage can be half of a target's health pool.

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. The assassin - fighter - archer builds remind me of the stealth archer builds from Skyrim; easy mode when done right.

[Vichrae]

Looks pretty good to me. Assassinate + Action Surge + Battlemaster dice are a scary, scary combination. One thing to point out though. Person Man's comment about multiclassing is just wrong.
1) Multiclassing requires you to meet BOTH classes ability score requirements.
2) The multiclass requirements for fighter are Str 13 OR Dex 13, so it doesn't really matter.
Going fighter first gets you heavy armor proficiency and a couple more hit points, as well as setting your saves to Strength and Constitution. Going rogue first gets you one more skill, and sets your saves to Dexterity and Intelligence. If I had to guess, going fighter first on this build would be to
1) set your saves to strength and constitution, giving you a better chance of not being swallowed, killed or debuffed, while depending on your good dexterity and eventually evasion to protect from common dexterity saves.
2) To allow the character to play as a tougher warrior type from level 1.

^^^ All of this is why I went fighter first

[Kane0]

So why smiths tools and not say bowyer/fletcher tools?

[Kerleth]

I agree with Easy Lee about prioritizing Alert over Sharpshooter. However, I disagree on the importance of the saves. Getting good strength and constitution will help you out immensely when things go wrong. You already do just fine when you are in your element. Covering your weakness to prevent crippling overspecialization would be more valuable, IMO.
As an anecdotal example, the most feared monster among my playgroup is a giant frog. I once had one swallow a pc and jump in a river. Last time they saw one they went nova on it, even though it was alone and it's cr was 1 lower than the party's (and they had a rough idea that it was weaker, just not the actual cr).

[Easy_Lee]

I agree with Easy Lee about prioritizing Alert over Sharpshooter. However, I disagree on the importance of the saves. Getting good strength and constitution will help you out immensely when things go wrong. You already do just fine when you are in your element. Covering your weakness to prevent crippling overspecialization would be more valuable, IMO.
As an anecdotal example, the most feared monster among my playgroup is a giant frog. I once had one swallow a pc and jump in a river. Last time they saw one they went nova on it, even though it was alone and it's cr was 1 lower than the party's (and they had a rough idea that it was weaker, just not the actual cr).

That's fair. It depends a lot on the campaign and how far back the rogue can stay. Certainly there's nothing wrong with having good STR and CON saves, while INT doesn't come up much and his DEX should be good enough for most saves as is.

[Vichrae]

Thanks for the helpful advice all!