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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Warriors of Renown: New options for fighters!



Kerleth
2015-04-20, 11:33 AM
I've always considered the fighter to be the sort of character that has a lot of room for customization. In 5E you can make a good fighter scout/trapfinder, party face, even a decent healer (An alternate human fighter can have a maxed strength/dexterity, 13+charisma, social skills, healer and inspiring leader feat as an example). But I want MOAR!!! The wizard gets 8 subclasses, and the fighter only 3! :smallfurious: THIS SHALL NOT STAND! :smallwink: Anyways, I think there is a lot of room here for customization, so here are a few homebrew ideas that I have come up with, including subclasses, fighting styles, and and a few feats that seem particularly appropriate to fighters. I plan on adding more as I go along. As a final note, I'm keeping my eye open for other homebrew that seems particularly cool and balanced (IMO, of course). I plan on linking this thread from a roll20 post for options in a campaign I am currently running, and using it as a sort of fighter database, if you will. So without further ado, distraction, or guilding of the lily, I give you

MY SUPER AWESOME FIGHTERY STUF OF COOLNESS

SUBCLASSES

Warrior Poet
From 3rd level onward, you may add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to any Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma check that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.

Combat Expertise
Starting at 7th level, you gain proficiency in athletics, and may add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks. If you are already proficient in athletics, you gain proficiency in a single skill of your choice, but still add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks.
Furthermore, you may attempt to escape a grapple or stand up from prone as a bonus action.

Tactical Mastery
At 10th level, you gain the following abilities:
Weave Through the Fray: Whenever you use your Action Surge to take the Dash action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for leaving an enemy's reach for the rest of your turn.
Cover: Whenever you use your Action Surge to take the Dodge action, attacks made against allies within 5 feet of you are made with disadvantage until the start of your next turn. Furthermore, dexterity saves made by allies within 5 feet of you are made with advantage until the start of your next turn.
Backup Plan: Whenever you use your Action Surge to Ready an action and the triggering event does not occur, you regain the use of your Action Surge at the beginning of your next turn.

Guardian
Beginning at 15th level, you may take one additional reaction each round. This additional reaction must be used to make an opportunity attack.
Additionally, opportunity attacks made against you or allies within 5 feet of you have disadvantage.

Iron Will
Upon reaching 18th level, you may add half your proficiency bonus to any saving throw that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus. Furthermore, whenever you use Indomitable you now automatically pass your saving throw, instead of rerolling.


The goal here was to make another mechanically simple fighter option, but not quite so distilled down as the champion. I wanted more tactical choices in play, but absolutely, 100% did not want any additional rescource tracking. Furthermore, this couldn't just be the Champion+. It had to have it's own unique identity. I've put a decent amount of work into this one, swapping out abilities, stealing some from other ideas I had, rewording, getting feedback from a friend. At the end of the day I'm pretty satisfied. He doesn't have any sheer power boosts, but the fighter chassis is pretty good at what it does there already. What this does do is give him more options and cover his weak spots, making him better equipped to deal with whatever he runs across, while also giving him a couple of abilities he can build around for the optimization inclined. To me, fighter is the place to showcase the smart, versatile combatant, and I think this does a decent job at that. The subclass should represent characters like Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly. Not the strongest, or smoothest, or smartest, but just the right mix with a couple of tricks up his sleeve. He gets beaten on, but with his friends at his back he always pulls it out at the end. Not gonna lie, I'm proud of this one.



The Hexblade focuses on using magic to weaken his enemies so that he can more easily overwhelm them with his martial skill. He's got access to a few trickery options, but not at the level of an arcane trickster rogue.
The Hexblade uses the spellcasting progression of the Eldritch Knight, and also has the same subclass abilities as that martial archetype. Where he differs is his unique spell list that combines spells from multiple classes, and it's associated ability score.

Spellcasting Score: Charisma

HEXBLADE SPELLS

Cantrips
Chill Touch
Dancing Lights
Friends
Light
Minor Illusion
Vicious Mockery

1st level spells
Bane
Charm Person
Color Spray
Disguise Self
Ray of Sickness
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

2nd level spells
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Crown of Madness
Darkness
Enthrall
Hold Person
Mirror Image
Phantasmal Force
Ray of Enfeeblement
Silence
Suggestion

3rd level spells
Bestow Curse
Fear
Hypnotic Pattern
Major Image
Nondetection
Phantom Steed
Slow

4th level spells
Compulsion
Confusion
Dominate Beast
Greater Invisibility
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
Phantasmal Killer


This one was the evolution of thinking about how swapping out the two schools of the eldritch knight would change it's flavor. At the end of the day, I realized that part of what makes the spellcasting of other partial casters like paladin and ranger cool is their access to a unique combination of spells. Though the Hexblade doesn't get any brand new spells, his spell list has a combination of spells that no other class completely shares. Notably, vicious mockery and bane are both on his spell list, giving him some interesting spell options that "feel" right for a charisma based debuffer.

I made a conscious decision to avoid multitarget damage spells. That is the Eldritch Knight's schtick, and I didn't want to make this into the Eldritch Knight+ (You may notice a recurring them here). His spells are almost all debuff effects. There are a few trickery and utility spells thrown in, such as disguise self and phantom steed. After all, even the eldritch knight gets to pick a couple of spells out of his Abjuration and Evocation straight jacket. Furhtermore, I did want to allow for a couple of options that didn't involve a hostile combatant failing a saving throw.

I originally had false life on the spell list, but removed it as well. The flagship spell of the Eldritch Knight is shield, and I wanted to veer away from that flavor. The hexblade is about weakening and disrupting his enemies, not strengthening himself. For that reason he has to wait till he gains access to the 2nd level spells blur and/or mirror image, which fit more with the underhanded, trickery theme of the spell list. To avoid to much overlap with stealth characters, I decided to leave invisibility off the spell list. He is a WARRIOR/spellcaster, not a stealth expert par excellence. He does get greater invisibility, as I wanted to give him a nice capstone spell to work towards. With it's much shorter duration, that is more of a combat buff, and the evolution of his blur and mirror image spells.

I'd also like to address the elephant in the room, the hex spell. I originally intended on putting this on him. I have fond memories of someone playing a 3.5 hexblade/warlock, and he is the HEXblade, after all. At the end of the day, I decided against it for a couple of reasons.
1) I wanted to limit his access to straight damage boosts to help differentiate him from the eldritch knight.
2) I didn't feel comfortable with the combination of fighter's extra attacks + action surge + hex.



Enlightened Warrior
Martial Archetype (fighter subclass)

Not all who seek to perfect the union of body and mind limit themselves to unarmed combat. The Enlightend Warrior is one such individual, fusing the discipline of the monk with the skill of a trained warrior.

Awakening the Spirit (3rd level)
You gain 2 ki points. You may spend these points to fuel various abilities. When you spend a ki point it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at which point you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of your rest meditating to regain these ki points. If you have ki points from multiple sources, add them together to determine your total number of ki points.

In addition, you gain the following abilities:
Snake Strike: You may spend 1 ki point to make a single weapon attack as a bonus action.
Cheetah Sprint: You may spend 1 ki point to dash as a bonus action.

Strengthening the Body (7th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following ability.

Refuse Harm: You may spend 2 ki points as a bonus action to gain all the benefits of your Second Wind, without requiring or expending a use of that ability.

Focusing the Mind (10th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following abilities.

Stone as Water: Whenever you use your Snake Strike, your weapon attacks ignore resistance until the beginning of your next turn.
Water as Stone: Whenever you use your Cheetah Sprint, you gain the effects of the "water walk" and "spider climb" spells until the beginning of your next turn.

Chasing Perfection (15th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following ability.

No Weakness: You may expend 4 ki points as a bonus action to treat one ability score of your choice as an 18 for the next hour. Furthermore, when making an ability check, attack roll, or saving throw for this score that doesn't already add your proficiency bonus, you may add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down. If your constitution is increased this way then your current and maximum hit points are increased accordingly. When this ability ends reduce both your maximum and current hit points accordingly.

Achieving the Impossible (18th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following abilities.

Eyes of the Spirit: You may spend 2 ki points as a bonus action to gain Truesight out to 60 feet for 1 minute. Truesight allows you to see in normal and magical darkness, see invisible creatures and objects, automatically detect and succeed on saving throws against visual illusions, perceive the original form of a shapechanger or creature changed by magic, and see onto the etheral plane.
Eschew Limitations: You may spend 1 ki point as a bonus action to immediately end any temporary effects applying the blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, or stunned condition, and remove those conditions. You may use this ability even if one of these conditions or the effect applying it would normally prevent you from doing so, as long as you are not incapacitated.


The idea here is this: What the Eldritch Knight is to the Wizard, the Enlightened Warrior is to the Monk. His abilities start out fairly mundane, using ki to boost his speed and toughness to their limits. Eventually he gains truly transcendent abilities, allowing him to reorient his life force to cover his weaknesses, or see through the illusions of the world.
Note that I balanced this vs the Battlemaster. At 3rd level, under optimal conditions, he can outdamage a battlemaster in a short fight. However, the battlemaster has more tactical options (as well as riders on his attacks) and is less likely to waste resources (using dice only on hits). Refuse harm can be quite potent. At 20th level this could be used to gain an average of 127.5 additional hp every short rest. Doing so burns up every single point of his, however. This compares to a battlemaster using parry to reduce 69 points of damage per short rest using parry. Still, I believe that it still doesn't exceed the survivability of a barbarian, and I feel that the battlemaster has a great deal more adaptability and tactical choice in combat at this level. The Enlightened warrior gets fewer, more potent options, whereas the battlemaster is more likely to have the right tool for the job.

Another concern someone else had was that the class gained to few ki points. I feel that gaining any more would be too powerful, as he already ends up with half of what a monk gets (as opposed to an eldritch knight, which ends up with about 1/3 of what a wizard gets). He is a FIGHTER/monk, if you will, and going over "half ki progression" would be a mistake I am firmly against. As it stands, he has to think about exactly how he wants to use his ki, but still has enough to vary his uses between short rests. That's just about exactly how I want it.




3rd level
Battle Ready
From 3rd level onward, whenever the d20 roll for an ability check to determine your initiative comes up a 9 or lower, it is a 10 instead.

3rd level
Timely Dodge
Also beginning at 3rd level, you may expend a use of action surge to take the dodge action at any time, as long as you are not surprised. You may use this ability in response to another action, such as an attack, and gain the benefits of the dodge action against that attack.

7th level
Read Body Language
An Acolyte of Himura of 7th level or higher has advantage on ability checks to determine any of the following while directly observing a creature:
-Whether or not a creature is lying.
-Whether or not a creature is real or an illusion.
-Whether or not a creature is in it's natural form.
-Whether or not a creature is charmed or otherwise mentally manipulated
-Whether or not a creature is frightened or otherwise suffering from terror.

10th level
Blinding Speed
Beginning at 10th level, when you use your action surge, timely dodge, or lightning skirmisher ability you become invisible until the beginning of your next turn.

15th level
Perfect Strike
At 15th level you gain the ability to make a supernally fast and precise attack. You may use an action to make a single weapon attack with the following effects:

-If the attack roll fails you hit the target. Instead of rolling damage, use the maximum possible result for all rolled damage dice.
-If the attack roll succeeds you hit the target. Instead of rolling damage, use the maximum possible result for all rolled damage dice, and the total damage of this attack is tripled.

You may use this ability safely once between each short or long rest. Using this ability 2 or more times between rests requires you to make a DC20 constitution save after each use of this ability until you complete a rest. On a failure you gain 2 levels of exhaustion.

18th level
Lightning Skirmisher
An 18th level Acolyte of Himura has reached the pinnacle of precision and speed. You may expend a use of action surge to move up to your speed at any time, as long as you are not surprised. You may use this ability in response to an action or event, such as an attack.
-If this ability is used in response to a targeted attack, spell, ability, or other effect, the attack or effect misses you completely and has no effect on you. An effect with multiple attack rolls, such as the searing ray spell, causes only a single attack roll to miss, and you may be targeted by the rest normally if you remain within range of the ability. A creature that may make multiple attacks with an action may make the remainder of their attacks against you normally, possibly moving between attacks as normal.
-If this ability is used in response to a spell, ability, or other effect with a defined area, such as a cave-in or the forcecage spell, then you completely avoid it's effects as long as you move out of that area.


This archetype was inspired by a certain reformed slayer of men. Still, it was designed first and foremost to be a good archetype, and second to draw inspiration from it's source. The martial archetype revolves around speed and reading your opponent. I wanted to highlight a warrior who predicts and avoids their enemies strikes, rather than just letting the armor absorb a hit.
I really like exploring the design space of using action surge for something other than basic attack. I think there's a whole lot of good design space there, as well as getting people in the habit of thinking what all they might be able to use their action surge for besides attacking.
The final ability, Lightning Skirmisher, was actually inspired by the final ability of the champion and complaints about the subclass in general (i.e. still loses to forcecage). I tried to come up with a a powerful defensive ability that would be something other than mounds of hit points, and flat out avoiding an effect seemed to be a good mix. Since it's so powerful I knew there had to be a limiting factor, and so tying it to action surge seemed natural. Furthermore it really showcases the reaction speed and timing that a high level warrior would possess.
The subclass was half put together from bits and pieces I had left over from working on other subclass. I just kind of realized I had most of the pieces I needed laying around, and I went for it.
FINALLY, the elephant in the room. DAMAGE ON A MISS, DUH DUH DUUUHHHH. I feel that since this is a single high level ability with limited uses it doesn't impose any at the narrative like it might if you had a rider on all of your attacks. This particular attack is just so swift and well aimed that you can only reduce it to a glancing blow, as opposed to avoiding it completely. Since it can't be used as a basic attack spamming lesser restoration, I don't see it causing any problem. In fact, I see it as a good way to make the fighter unique among martial characters.


SOULFORGE
The soulforge is able to manifest his fighting spirit as an actual weapon. In time this weapon grows to eclipse anything possible with mundane weaponry, rivaling that of famous magic weapons.

Manifest Spirit
Beginning at 3rd level, you gain the ability to create armaments from nothing more than your concentrated will. On your turn before taking an action you may create one or two melee weapons, or one melee weapon and a shield. You must be proficient with and able to hold and wield anything created this way. The type of weapon(s) created may be changed each time this ability is used. In a similar fashion you may exchange any weapons or shields that you currently have manifested with any other combination of weapons and shields you could manifest. Any object created this way disappears if you are not holding it at the end of any turn. Objects created with this ability are considered magical.
This ability may also be used to create a copy of any magical melee weapon or shield that is currently on your person but not being wielded. The statistics of such a copy are identical to the original, except as modified by other abilities of this subclass. This ability may be used to create copies of two different weapons simultaneously, or of a weapon and a shield. You may also freely mix this ability with the previous ability to manifest weaponry, such as by creating a copy of a magical shortsword sheathed at your side while simultaneously manifesting a handaxe from nothing. If you are attuned to a magical item copied this way, the manifested copy gains all the normal benefits of attunement. Any abilities with a limited number of uses draw on the limited uses of the original.

Adaptable Creation
From 7th level onward, you have gained a much finer control of your ability to manifest objects.
Firstly, objects created by the abilities of this subclass do not automatically disappear at the end of a turn in which you are not holding them unless you choose for them too. (Though you may still have no more than two weapons or a weapon and a shield manifested at the same time).
Secondly, you may now create objects other than weapons and shields. Doing so does not require an action, but the item must be created before you take any actions on your turn. Items created this way are considered magical. The items you can create are bound by a few limitations.
-You must be able to hold the item, and it is manifested in your grasp.
-You may not have more than 5 items created by this ability in existance at a time. This number does not include any items created by other abilities, such as the weapons created by manifest spirit. One item with multiple parts, such as costume clothes, counts as a single item.
-The item you are emulating may not be magical.
-You may not create any item more mechanically complex than a lock, though you may create items with multiple parts, such as thieves' tools, a bag of caltrops, or clothes.
-You may not create any item with a dimension greater than 10 feet.
-You may not create any item with a weight greater than 25lbs.
-You may not create any item with a value greater than 50gp.
-You may not create potions of healing or any other item that restores hit points or removes levels of exhaustion.
-Food or water you create is clearly not natural and offers no sustenance.
-Items created this way may never be used as the material component for spells.
-Any residue left by items you create, such as a marking from chalk created by this ability, disappears when the item that created it is no longer manifested.

Penultimate Creation
At 10th level, you gain the ability to create tools of war with abilities far superior, or outright impossible, compared to mundane weaponry. Choose one ability from the following list.

-Titan's Blade: You may freely choose whether a weapon created with manifest spirit is one-handed or two-handed. The weapon's statistics and properties are otherwise unaffected.
-Supreme Flexiblility: You may choose to grant either the finesse or reach property to any weapon you create with manifest spirit. Whether or not you grant a property, and which one you grant, you be changed each time you create a weapon.
-Sky Splitter: You may grant the thrown property to any weapon you create with manifest spirit. These weapons have a normal range of 20 feet, and a long range of 60 feet. Immediately after a thrown attack misses or hits you may choose to return the manifested weapon to your grasp, allowing you to make multiple thrown weapon attacks using the attack action.
-Armor of the Gods: Whenever you manifest weapons with the manifest spirit ability, you may also gird yourself in magical armor. This armor has an AC of 18, is weightless, and does not inflict disadvantage on stealth checks. If you are already wearing armor with a lower AC, than your AC becomes 18. Furthermore, any armor you are wearing becomes weightless and does not inflict disadvantage on stealth checks when using this ability. Armor created this way disappears along when the weaponry is was created alongside does, or if it is removed.
-Shadowflame: You may imbue any weapon created by manifest spirit with the energies of creation. When you manifest a weapon you may choose to have any damage it deals be either radiant or necrotic damage, chosen at the time of manifestation. Damage dealt in this way is unaffected by any ability that would reduce weapon damage, and has an additional effect based on the type of damage dealt. A creature dealt necrotic damage this way may not regain hit points or gain temporary hit points until the start of your next turn. A fiend or undead dealt necrotic damage this way takes one additional die of damage.

Dispelling Stroke
Starting at 15th level, when you make a successful attack with your manifested weapon you may cast dispel magic as a 5th level spell against that creature or object without using an action. Your constitution is considered your spellcasting score for this ability. You may also use this ability to cast dispel magic against a magical effect, such as a wall of fire, but must "strike" the effect with an attack. Once you use this ability you may not do so again until you complete a short or long rest.

Transcendent Mastery
Upon reach 18th level, you gain true masery over your abilities. Choose a 2nd ability from the menu for penultimate creation. Furthermore, you may change these two choices whenever you complete a short or long rest.

This was inspired by a mix of soulknife, soul caliber, and kuwabara from yu yu hakusho. I should probably put something more detailed and informative here, but I'm getting tired, so, will you just tell everyone I was insightful and witty, please? Besides, I know there are only like two of you that read this anyways. Yeah, I know who you are. The clown behind you told me all about it.



Clever Ploy
Requirements: Intelligence 13+
You have learned how to manuever an opponent into an undefendable position that only the keenest of minds can predict and avoid. When you make an attack you may expend a superiority die and force the target to make an intelligence save instead of making an attack roll. On a failed save the attack hits and does normal damage plus your superiority die.

Crushing Blow
Requirements: Strength 13+
You strike with a mighty blow that can pierce through the thickest of hides and armor. When you make an attack you may expend a superiority die and force the target to make a dexterity save instead of making an attack roll. On a failed save the attack hits and does normal damage plus your superiority die.

Unrelenting Assault
Requirements: Constitution 13+
Avoiding or blocking your attacks slowly wears your opponent down, softening them up for the kill. When you miss with an attack roll you may expend a superiority die to force the target to make a constitution save.On a failed save the target gains 1 level of exhaustion, and you may roll your superiority die and deal that much damage to the target.

Into the Fray
At the beginning of any combat in which you are not surprised you may expend a superiority die and add the rolled result to your initiative.

Hobbling Attack
When you hit with an attack you may expend one superiority die to slow that creature for a short time. Add the superiority die to your attack's damage roll, and the target's speed is reduced by 10 feet. The target may make a constitution saving throw at the end of each of it's turns to end this effect.

Bleeding Wound
When you hit with an attack you may expend one superiority die to inflict a bleeding wound on a creature. Add the superiority die to your attack's damage roll. At the end of each of the target's turns you may roll your superiority die and deal that much damage to the target. This damage is of the same type as the attack used to perform this manuever. That creature or another may take an action to attempt to staunch the wound. If they succeed at a wisdom medicine check against your battlemaster save dc this effect ends. This effect also ends if target regains more hit points than the maximum result of your superiority die in one turn. (d8 requires 9+, d10 requires 11+ d12 requires 13+).




Hand and a Half
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
As long as you are wielding a versatile melee weapon with two hands, you gain a +1 to attack and +1 to AC.

Avoidance
Fighter, Ranger
As long as you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, your base Armor Class is 13 + your dexterity modifier. As long as your are also wielding a single one-handed melee weapon, you gain an additional +3 bonus to AC against melee attacks.

Blitzkrieg
Fighter, Ranger
You gain a +2 bonus to ability checks made to determine initiative, and a +2 bonus to weapon damage rolls in the first round of combat.

Opportunist
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls on attacks of opportunity. In addition, whenever you make a successful attack of opportunity you may roll damage twice and take the higher of the two amounts.

Skirmish
Fighter, Ranger
Opportunity attacks made against you have disadvantage.



While I think the options in the player's handbook cover the most basic fighting styles, I also think there can be a lot more to a character's fighting style than the type of weapon these uses. As such, these fighting styles are designed to encourage and support specific approaches to combat, in addition to some more niche weapon and armor combinations.
The Avoidance fighting style was a particular pain to get just right. I wanted it to support a kenshin esque style of warrior without being too good for a ranged combatant. Right now it is comparable to a dexterity based sword and boarder. The base armor class granted is identical to that of studded leather with the defensive fighting style. The additional bonus for wielding a single one-handed melee weapon vs that of a sword and boarder is 2 lower against ranged attacks, but 3 higher against melee. I think this gives the fighting style a good niche and promotes the type of character I had in mind without being clearly superior or inferior to the core options. Incidentally, you can also choose to max out both strength and dexterity to wield a d10 weapon (versatile with two hands) while having AC18 against range and 21 against melee, and without disadvantage on stealth checks. This can make for a pretty awesome and versatile combatant, but maxing both strength and dexterity is a bit suboptimal, so I am of the opinion that it balances out nicely. I'm specifically imagining a champion with both this and the archery fighting style. Two character concepts with one style. Win!




Thrown Weapon Master
You specialize in confounding your opponents with a mix of ranged and melee attacks.
-Whenever you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon you may draw another weapon immediately after making that attack without using a seperate action.
-Whenever you make a ranged attack against a target at least 10 feet away, you gain advantage on your first melee weapon attack made against that enemy this turn.
-On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one ranged attack with a thrown weapon as a bonus action. This attack does not gain disadvantage from being within 5 feet of a hostile creature.

Versatile Combatant
You can transition smoothly between offense and defense in the heat of battle. You gain the following benefits.
-The bonus to AC from any buckler you wield increases by 1 point.
-When wielding a versatile weapon with one hand you may use it's higher versatile damage die as though you were wielding it with two hands.
-When you are wielding a versatile melee weapon with two hands and take the attack action, you may use a bonus action to strike with the haft or pommel of the weapon. The weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage.

Advanced Weapon Training
When you gain this feat choose one of the following benefits. Once the benefit is chosen, it may not be changed.
-You gain proficiency with all one handed simple and martial melee weapons. Furthermore, you gain your choice of either the dueling or two weapon fighting style.
-You gain proficiency with all two handed simple and martial melee weapons. Furthermore, you gain the great weapon fighting style.
-You gain proficiency with all simple and martial ranged weapons. Furthermore, you gain the archery fighting style.

Armor Training
You have learned how to wear armor and maximize it's benefits. You gain the defensive fighting style and proficiency with light armor. If you have or later gain proficiency with light armor from another source, you gain proficiency with medium armor. If you have or later gain proficiency with both light and medium armor from another source, you gain proficiency with heavy armor.

Shield Bearer
You have trained to use a shield to defend yourself and your allies. You gain proficiency with shields, and the protection fighting style.

Dancing Blade
-You gain proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, and scimitar.
-You may treat the longsword as a finesse weapon.
-If you take the attack action while wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons or shields, you may make a single additional attack with that weapon as a bonus action. You may choose to make this attack while wielding a buckler, but do not benefit from it's bonus to AC until the beginning of your next turn after doing so.



The first two feats, Thrown Weapon Master and Versatile Combatant are designed to support to fighting styles that slipped between the gaps. Both of those are what I would consider "dynamic" fighting styles, in that they are based as much on the flow of combat as they are on equipment. Thrown Weapon Master is (put on your surprised faces) intended for specialists in thrown weapons. However, I wanted that to be distinct from a ranged weapon expert. It's designed to allow you to smoothly shift between melee and ranged. While designing the feat I had some distinct movie moments in my head. Hopefully you can make a rough guess what they were based on the feat. As far as versatile combatant goes, it grew from me trying to figure out whether versatile served any purpose other than when you got caught with your pants shield down. Thinking about that made me realize that there wasn't a whole lot of support for a an adaptable warrior. Since I'd already designed a feat for switching between melee and ranged, I figured I'd go ahead and design one for switching between offense and defense. That lead to the development of the buckler, below. So your AC is the same and your damage a touch higher than a sword and boarder without the feat. But you can drop your defense and pump your damage up at any point to finish an enemy. Your damage then is identical to a polearm master who missed out on his opportunity attack. Though weaker than a dedicated sword and boarder or polearm master at their own specialty, the ability to swap back and forth at need gives ( I Hope!) a comparable, distinct, and engaging benefit.

The "training" feats are really more designed with non-fighters or multiclass fighters in mind. I personally feel that the fighting styles are a pretty nice benefit, with the weakest of them being defensive. (Though it's arguably the one that you'll get the most use out of as well, so I think it's far from a trap option). I've seen other feats that granted a fighting style of your choice and a +1 to an ability score, but that seemed just a bit too much to me. These are focused more towards granting full training with a style of combat to a character. So a valor bard could pick up heavy armor proficiency and the defensive style, while an abjurer could pick up a shield and protection to become a mage tank. It also opens up some decent options, such as two weapon barbarians and the like. I know that these feats might not be all-stars, but I think they do the job admirably for the niche characters that would take them. But I MIIIGHT be biased just a little.

Dancing blade is something that just kind of popped in my head. Just to get it out of the way, I am aware that I have just opened up 1d10 finesse weapons to rogues. HOWEVER, it already was possible to get a 1d10 dexterity based weapon. A dip in any class that grants martial weapons or a feat gives proficiency with the heavy crossbow. Which is a 1d10 dexterity based weapon that you can sneak attack with. It could even be combined with crossbow expert to get used in both melee and ranged. As such I think rogues and fighters having a with a 1 point per attack higher damage option isn't going to break the world. I'm also aware that being able to attack twice is a very nice accuracy boost for a rogue to land sneak attack. But then they can't use cunning action, and they could already accomplish that with either crossbow expert or two weapon fighting. As such, I think that it is most definitely not broken, or even bent for that matter. But I'm certainly open to evidence to the contrary.



Buckler
Requires Shield Proficiency
The buckler is a small, light shield that grants a +1 bonus to AC. Instead of focusing on defense, you may use the arm wearing a buckler for another purpose such as drinking a potion or wielding a weapon. When you do so you no longer benefit from the buckler's bonus to AC until the beginning of your next turn.
I think the buckler concept pretty much speaks for itself, so uh, yeah. I'll place any unique weapons mundane or magical that I dream up here as time goes on.

Kerleth
2015-04-20, 11:34 AM
A link to Samhain's subclasses, including the Dragoon, a mounted warrior fighter subclass.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?410209-Homebrew-Archetypes-desperately-needing-some-feedback&p=19155727#post19155727

Samhaim
2015-04-21, 05:12 AM
I've always considered the fighter to be the sort of character that has a lot of room for customization. In 5E you can make a good fighter scout/trapfinder, party face, even a decent healer (An alternate human fighter can have a maxed strength/dexterity, 13+charisma, social skills, healer and inspiring leader feat as an example). But I want MOAR!!! The wizard gets 8 subclasses, and the fighter only 3! :smallfurious: THIS SHALL NOT STAND! :smallwink: Anyways, I think there is a lot of room here for customization, so here are a few homebrew ideas that I have come up with, including subclasses, fighting styles, and and a few feats that seem particularly appropriate to fighters. I plan on adding more as I go along. As a final note, I'm keeping my eye open for other homebrew that seems particularly cool and balanced (IMO, of course). I plan on linking this thread from a roll20 post for options in a campaign I am currently running, and using it as a sort of fighter database, if you will. So without further ado, distraction, or guilding of the lily, I give you
I agree that we need to give the fighter/warrior the love it deserves so it does not end up like it was in 3e and similia.




Warrior Poet
From 3rd level onward, you may add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to any Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma check that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.

Combat Expertise
Starting at 7th level, you gain proficiency in athletics, and may add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks. If you are already proficient in athletics, you gain proficiency in a single skill of your choice, but still add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks.
Furthermore, you may attempt to escape a grapple or stand up from prone as a bonus action.

Guardian
Beginning at 10th level, you may take one additional reaction each round. This additional reaction must be used to make an opportunity attack.
Additionally, opportunity attacks made against you or allies within 5 feet of you have disadvantage.

Shake If Off
At 15th level, you gain the ability to remove a number of conditions with your second wind. Whenever you use your second wind you may immediately end any temporary effects applying the blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, or stunned condition, and remove those conditions. You may use your second wind even if one of these conditions or the effect applying it would normally prevent you from doing so, as long as you are not incapacitated.

Iron Will
Upon reaching 18th level, you may add half your proficiency bonus to any saving throw that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus. Furthermore, whenever you use Indomitable you now automatically pass your saving throw, instead of rerolling.


The goal here was to make another mechanically simple fighter option, but not quite so distilled down as the champion. I wanted more tactical choices in play, but absolutely, 100% did not want any additional rescource tracking. Furthermore, this couldn't just be the Champion+. It had to have it's own unique identity. I've put a decent amount of work into this one, swapping out abilities, stealing some from other ideas I had, rewording, getting feedback from a friend. At the end of the day I'm pretty satisfied. He doesn't have any sheer power boosts, but the fighter chassis is pretty good at what it does there already. What this does do is give him more options and cover his weak spots, making him better equipped to deal with whatever he runs across, while also giving him a couple of abilities he can build around for the optimization inclined. To me, fighter is the place to showcase the smart, versatile combatant, and I think this does a decent job at that. The subclass should represent characters like Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly. Not the strongest, or smoothest, or smartest, but just the right mix with a couple of tricks up his sleeve. He gets beaten on, but with his friends at his back he always pulls it out at the end. Not gonna lie, I'm proud of this one.


I need to be honest, while I respect the effort you might have put here, it feels a little bland. The theme in itself is not overly interesting (for me at least) and it feels more like something the should be shown through RP rather than rules.




The Hexblade focuses on using magic to weaken his enemies so that he can more easily overwhelm them with his martial skill. He's got access to a few trickery options, but not at the level of an arcane trickster rogue.
The Hexblade uses the spellcasting progression of the Eldritch Knight, and also has the same subclass abilities as that martial archetype. Where he differs is his unique spell list that combines spells from multiple classes, and it's associated ability score.

Spellcasting Score: Charisma

HEXBLADE SPELLS

Cantrips
Chill Touch
Dancing Lights
Friends
Light
Minor Illusion
Vicious Mockery

1st level spells
Bane
Charm Person
Color Spray
Disguise Self
Ray of Sickness
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

2nd level spells
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Crown of Madness
Darkness
Enthrall
Hold Person
Mirror Image
Phantasmal Force
Ray of Enfeeblement
Silence
Suggestion

3rd level spells
Bestow Curse
Fear
Hypnotic Pattern
Major Image
Nondetection
Phantom Steed
Slow

4th level spells
Compulsion
Confusion
Dominate Beast
Greater Invisibility
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
Phantasmal Killer


This one was the evolution of thinking about how swapping out the two schools of the eldritch knight would change it's flavor. At the end of the day, I realized that part of what makes the spellcasting of other partial casters like paladin and ranger cool is their access to a unique combination of spells. Though the Hexblade doesn't get any brand new spells, his spell list has a combination of spells that no other class completely shares. Notably, vicious mockery and bane are both on his spell list, giving him some interesting spell options that "feel" right for a charisma based debuffer.

I made a conscious decision to avoid multitarget damage spells. That is the Eldritch Knight's schtick, and I didn't want to make this into the Eldritch Knight+ (You may notice a recurring them here). His spells are almost all debuff effects. There are a few trickery and utility spells thrown in, such as disguise self and phantom steed. After all, even the eldritch knight gets to pick a couple of spells out of his Abjuration and Evocation straight jacket. Furhtermore, I did want to allow for a couple of options that didn't involve a hostile combatant failing a saving throw.

I originally had false life on the spell list, but removed it as well. The flagship spell of the Eldritch Knight is shield, and I wanted to veer away from that flavor. The hexblade is about weakening and disrupting his enemies, not strengthening himself. For that reason he has to wait till he gains access to the 2nd level spells blur and/or mirror image, which fit more with the underhanded, trickery theme of the spell list. To avoid to much overlap with stealth characters, I decided to leave invisibility off the spell list. He is a WARRIOR/spellcaster, not a stealth expert par excellence. He does get greater invisibility, as I wanted to give him a nice capstone spell to work towards. With it's much shorter duration, that is more of a combat buff, and the evolution of his blur and mirror image spells.

I'd also like to address the elephant in the room, the hex spell. I originally intended on putting this on him. I have fond memories of someone playing a 3.5 hexblade/warlock, and he is the HEXblade, after all. At the end of the day, I decided against it for a couple of reasons.
1) I wanted to limit his access to straight damage boosts to help differentiate him from the eldritch knight.
2) I didn't feel comfortable with the combination of fighter's extra attacks + action surge + hex.

You did a good job here with the theme and flavour of it all. I am not sure the Eldritch Knight's features would work with this selection of spells though. You should probably make some new ones that emphasize the crowd controlling and debuffing aspect of the archetype. That would also help to make this class stand on it's own and far a way from a blade'lock.




Enlightened Warrior
Martial Archetype (fighter subclass)

Not all who seek to perfect the union of body and mind limit themselves to unarmed combat. The Enlightend Warrior is one such individual, fusing the discipline of the monk with the skill of a trained warrior.

Awakening the Spirit (3rd level)
You gain 2 ki points. You may spend these points to fuel various abilities. When you spend a ki point it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at which point you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of your rest meditating to regain these ki points. If you have ki points from multiple sources, add them together to determine your total number of ki points.

In addition, you gain the following abilities:
Snake Strike: You may spend 1 ki point to make a single weapon attack as a bonus action.
Cheetah Sprint: You may spend 1 ki point to dash as a bonus action.

Strengthening the Body (7th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following ability.

Refuse Harm: You may spend 2 ki points as a bonus action to gain all the benefits of your Second Wind, without requiring or expending a use of that ability.

Focusing the Mind (10th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following abilities.

Stone as Water: Whenever you use your Snake Strike, your weapon attacks ignore resistance until the beginning of your next turn.
Water as Stone: Whenever you use your Cheetah Sprint, you gain the effects of the "water walk" and "spider climb" spells until the beginning of your next turn.

Chasing Perfection (15th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following ability.

No Weakness: You may expend 4 ki points as a bonus action to treat one ability score of your choice as an 18 for the next hour. Furthermore, when making an ability check, attack roll, or saving throw for this score that doesn't already add your proficiency bonus, you may add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down. If your constitution is increased this way then your current and maximum hit points are increased accordingly. When this ability ends reduce both your maximum and current hit points accordingly.

Achieving the Impossible (18th level)
You gain 2 additional ki points, and the following abilities.

Eyes of the Spirit: You may spend 2 ki points as a bonus action to gain Truesight out to 60 feet for 1 minute. Truesight allows you to see in normal and magical darkness, see invisible creatures and objects, automatically detect and succeed on saving throws against visual illusions, perceive the original form of a shapechanger or creature changed by magic, and see onto the etheral plane.
Eschew Limitations: Whenever you Refuse Harm you may also remove the following conditions; blinded, charmed, deafend, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, and stunned. You may use this ability even if the condition or effect applying it would normally prevent you from doing so.


The idea here is this: What the Eldritch Knight is to the Wizard, the Enlightened Warrior is to the Monk. His abilities start out fairly mundane, using ki to boost his speed and toughness to their limits. Eventually he gains truly transcendent abilities, allowing him to reorient his life force to cover his weaknesses, or see through the illusions of the world.
Note that I balanced this vs the Battlemaster. At 3rd level, under optimal conditions, he can outdamage a battlemaster in a short fight. However, the battlemaster has more tactical options (as well as riders on his attacks) and is less likely to waste resources (using dice only on hits). Refuse harm can be quite potent. At 20th level this could be used to gain an average of 127.5 additional hp every short rest. Doing so burns up every single point of his, however. This compares to a battlemaster using parry to reduce 69 points of damage per short rest using parry. Still, I believe that it still doesn't exceed the survivability of a barbarian, and I feel that the battlemaster has a great deal more adaptability and tactical choice in combat at this level. The Enlightened warrior gets fewer, more potent options, whereas the battlemaster is more likely to have the right tool for the job.

Another concern someone else had was that the class gained to few ki points. I feel that gaining any more would be too powerful, as he already ends up with half of what a monk gets (as opposed to an eldritch knight, which ends up with about 1/3 of what a wizard gets). He is a FIGHTER/monk, if you will, and going over "half ki progression" would be a mistake I am firmly against. As it stands, he has to think about exactly how he wants to use his ki, but still has enough to vary his uses between short rests. That's just about exactly how I want it.



This Archetype seems extremely strong to me. Aside suggesting to group up the ki points gain in a single feature that scale with fighter levels, some abilities work too well for a fighter. Snake Strike gives a class, that is a veritable whirlwind of attacks, one more to dish out destruction. I might be exaggerating here, but I feel like it's a very dangerous feature. Refuse Harm While strong enough on its own, might not be that bad since there is a limit to the available ki points of this class (emphasis on "might"), but if you pile them up with a monk's, this has the potential of getting out of hand really fast. Stone as Water you ignore all resistances for and make an extra attack for 1 ki point, in addition to what I mentioned above. No Weakness Could probably nullify any stat penalty a character might incur in on top of raising a statistic to a very high score. Eschew Limitations ok this is a 18th level skill and should be powerful, but upgrading an ability to heal and cure aliments both without a cost increase....
I hope this helps and I have not been rude. This Archetype might not fit my tastes but it is not inherently bad and with some more work could become something I would definitely suggest one of my players to play.





Hand and a Half
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
As long as you are wielding a versatile melee weapon with two hands, you gain a +1 to attack and +1 to AC.

Avoidance
Fighter, Ranger
As long as you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, your base Armor Class is 13 + your dexterity modifier.

Blitzkrieg
Fighter, Ranger
You gain a +2 bonus to ability checks made to determine initiative, and a +2 bonus to weapon attack and damage rolls in the first round of combat.

Good and cool enough, no problems here.

Kerleth
2015-04-21, 10:43 AM
I agree that we need to give the fighter/warrior the love it deserves so it does not end up like it was in 3e and similia.


I need to be honest, while I respect the effort you might have put here, it feels a little bland. The theme in itself is not overly interesting (for me at least) and it feels more like something the should be shown through RP rather than rules.


Well the whole idea was for an alternative "basic" fighter. Pumping mental skills, being better at combat manuevers, being able to resist or recover from debilitating effects that take down the more specialized characters. The whole IDEA was a sort of heroic everyman. Malcom Reynolds from Firefly, Bruce Willis's character in Die Hard, those sorts of characters. The mechanics are intended to support the playstyle and rp. I respect that it doesn't have any unique Wyvernriding Storm Warrior of The Lost Empire sort of status going on, but sometimes it's nice to have something a little less specific. So, I guess bland is good :smallamused:
Mechanically, do you think it gets the job done in representing that archetype?



You did a good job here with the theme and flavour of it all. I am not sure the Eldritch Knight's features would work with this selection of spells though. You should probably make some new ones that emphasize the crowd controlling and debuffing aspect of the archetype. That would also help to make this class stand on it's own and far a way from a blade'lock.


Actually, I think it uses the eldritch knight's features better than the eldritch knight does.
1) War magic + Vicious Mockery is probaby more useful than pretty much any cantrip the eldritch knight picks up, with the possible exception of blade ward. (That has some definite tanky uses in the right situation.)
2)Eldritch Strike + Debuff of choice is probably going to accomplish more than any of the eldritch knight's damage spells. Admittedly, the eldritch knight could spend one of his "out of school" spells known slots on hold person, but there is a very high demand for what those few precious slots go to.




This Archetype seems extremely strong to me. Aside suggesting to group up the ki points gain in a single feature that scale with fighter levels, some abilities work too well for a fighter. Snake Strike gives a class, that is a veritable whirlwind of attacks, one more to dish out destruction. I might be exaggerating here, but I feel like it's a very dangerous feature. Refuse Harm While strong enough on its own, might not be that bad since there is a limit to the available ki points of this class (emphasis on "might"), but if you pile them up with a monk's, this has the potential of getting out of hand really fast. Stone as Water you ignore all resistances for and make an extra attack for 1 ki point, in addition to what I mentioned above. No Weakness Could probably nullify any stat penalty a character might incur in on top of raising a statistic to a very high score. Eschew Limitations ok this is a 18th level skill and should be powerful, but upgrading an ability to heal and cure aliments both without a cost increase....
I hope this helps and I have not been rude. This Archetype might not fit my tastes but it is not inherently bad and with some more work could become something I would definitely suggest one of my players to play.


I am aware that the subclass dances on the line of being too powerful. A couple of points that merit attention, however.
1) Spamming everything on refulse harm means you don't do anything but soak hits. Compare that to a high level Bearbarian's damage resistance and infinirage. You probably still aren't outdoing the king of tanking, so you are within bounds.
2) Multiclassing monk lowers the amount of hp regained per use of refuse harm, as less of your total levels are fighter levels. Furthermore, the monk is in itself very hungry for those ki points, so you are very unlikely to break anything with that.
3)At the level you gain it at, the resistance ignoring of Water as Stone probably won't come up that often. You likely have a magic weapon, and the number of things left that would chop your damage in half is rather small. There are some situations where it is great, I will admit, but it's pretty niche.
4) No Weakness burns up about half! of your ki points. Useful, no doubt. But you lose a lot of your power to use it, and it will by definitions be on abilities/checks that you haven't optimized and don't often use. (Okay, you might pump a 14 up to an 18, but in that case the increase is much less, so it balances out).

I actually agree about eschew limitations. Perhaps make it an alternative ability? 1 ki point as a bonus action to remove a negative condition?

About the Snake's Strike, I know it looks ridiculously powerful. Here is a little off the cuff math (it's kinda messy, forgive me).
Enlightened Warrior
2d6+3+1(rough whole number estimate of average GW Style increase)=11
11x2(for two attacks)=22 damage.

Battlemaster
2d6+3+1+1d8(superiority die)=15.5

But recall that the battlmaster has a few things in his favor here:
1)No waste, you only spend the dice on a hit, so you will always net that damage. That bonus attack can miss.
2)2 ki points vs 4 superiority dice. The battlemaster can use his special ability twice as often between short rests.
3)Rider effects and versatility. The battemaster can use his dice to shove, intimidate, trip, give an ally attack, etc., etc.
4)Any turn that you action surge the distance is closed. Action surge does not allow more Snake Strikes, but does allow the use of more superiority dice.

Further, the optimization ceiling is higher for the battemaster.
3rd level battlemaster wielding two weapons (the style is absolutely devastating at low levels. I know it gets a lot of flak, but run the numbers. 1-4 it is incredible, and 5-10 it is slightly lower damage but has other strengths. Darnit, now I probably derailed the thread.)
Battlemaster combined with Enlarge and two weapon fighting(variant human)
{1d8(longsword)+1d8(superiority dice)+1d4(enlarge)+3(strength)}x2(two attacks from two weapon fighting) = 23
And add the rider effects of the superiority dice along with that.
Combined with commander's strike and a 3rd level rogue.
(hatchet)1d6+3+1d8+1d4=11
(shortsword rogue) 3d6+3=13.5
11+13.5=24.5
Note that this isn't the highest possible level of optimization either. The rogue could be wielding a rapier. The Battlemaster could be variant human with two-weapon fighting. Those would increase the damage to about 26.5. And as above their are the rider effects of the damage dice.

Enlightened Warrior has a nonsynergy with twoweapon fighting, and no special synergy with rogue. So the most optimized we could pull off at 3rd level would be.
{(Greatsword)2d6+1d4(enlarge)+3(strength)+1(to represent the great weapon style)}x2(for the extra attack)=27

Their just isn't as much that you can do to optimize the enlightened warrior. At higher levels the multiple attacks of two greatsword wielding fighters are going to narrow the difference between a EW and a BM. Also, going sword and board is going to drop your damage noticeably. I could trot out some more examples, but the end scenario is that:
Best case, the EW slightly exceeds the Battlemasters damage, but the battlemaster is more versatile and doesn't wast his rescources. At higher levels the wasted ki on missed attacks acounts for most of the difference of having 10 ki versus 6 dice.


Good and cool enough, no problems here.
Yay! I was hoping to open up some flavors of fighter that aren't really supported with these. I'll admit I had a little kenshin on the mind when I made them.

Also, you were not rude in the slightest. Thank you for the point by point critique. Having to "check the math" is good, even if I end up disagreeing. If there is anything else I have missed, I would welcome any further thoughts.

MrStabby
2015-04-21, 10:49 AM
A few thoughts:

The Veteran

I quite like it and it does match your design notes. This seems a versatile tough guy but he doesn't feel special. The Champion is equally passive but has a visible impact on the table through occasional bursts of massive damage. He is interesting to play because you can do things that without the champion couldn't be done. The veteran seems to simulate having better saves and recovery from effects as if he has passed the save in the first place. Whilst boosting saves is a nice power thing as you cant tell the result apart from those that passed it in the first place it looks a bit dull. The extra reaction is nice, and certainly might attract people into multiclassing rogue or similar plans.

I wonder if you could also add in a second bonus action at a high enough level. Two weapon fighting then becomes good, pole arm master gains a bit as well (but not as much). There are a lot of opportunities that this would open up as well as making the archetype feel more unique?


Hexblade
This seems pretty good conceptually but I worry that in practice it may be a bit more limited due to a lot of spells with concentration requirements. Personally I dont think that Eldritch Knight is that strong as an archetype - mainly useful if you want the chassis but also have a spell-casting class that you want more spells for.

Enlightened Warrior
This worried me a bit at first but I think it should be ok. In practice it could be a bit powerful but difficult to tell at this stage. By itself it seems powerful (the Ki abilities don't exceed the monks abilities but the Fighter base class is much more powerful) but it is worth considering how it combines with monk. A 1 level dip into Monk gets you a nice selection of abilities including unarmored combat and the ability to use things like quarterstaves with dexterity. Oh, and a Ki point. And the free unarmed strike. If the class is supposed to be restricted by Ki then monk is a more efficient way of getting it. I am pretty sure that this looks reasonably safe though.


For fighting Styles
Hand and A Half: The quarterstaff is already probably the most popular weapon in D&D - providing another fighting style that supports it may be a bit risky. Also the abilities from this seem pretty strong compared to the other fighting styles.

Avoidance: this looks fair and pretty safe as it doesn't stack with anything. I think that whilst this is simple it could potentially open up a whole new set of options. I really like this.

Blitzkreig: I worry about this with things like the assassin. Not only are they more likely to win initiative but they are more likely to hit for nova damage on their first turns. Given that assassins usually work by eliminating the most scary thing in an encounter before it can act, anything that helps make attacks hit is really powerful. I also have to say that most combats don't seem to last beyond 4 turns for much of the game, and the first of those is most important. You could maybe call this something like zeal and make it only available to the Paladin and Ranger? At least you would need 2 levels then to get this fighting style? I don't think it is far off balanced and it does seem pretty useful (and characterful).




Feat:
I like thrown weapon master. Yes it is very nice for rogues but not unreasonably so and by playing into a number of different weapons it makes them much more interesting. Even if nothing else I like the idea of throwing a snowball at someone to distract them just before stabbing them in the face.


Actually as a whole set I quite like these. There seems to be a lot of options here and would be happy to see more (especially styles and feats).

DanyBallon
2015-04-21, 11:59 AM
I don't like Avoidance, not that it's not flavorful figthing style, but mostly that it's better than wearing any light armor and on par with Mage armor. Every other classes using Dex who wants to boost AC without having an armor in the way (Rogue with low strenght who don't want to be slowed down by weight, Wizards that want to cast something else than mage armor with their 1st level spell slot, etc.) will consider dipping 1 level in fighter to grab this one.
Reduce the base from 13 to 12, and it won't be less appealing for wizards and rogue as well. Some will still consider the option of dipping, but the advantage of doing so will be less appealing.

Kerleth
2015-04-22, 10:25 AM
In response to a couple of posters concerning the fighting styles:
Avoidance: Any character who can dip into a leevel of fighter gains automatic light armor proficiency and the choice of a fighting style. The Defense fighting style combined with studded leather grants an AC of 13+Dexterity, identical to that of avoidance. The differences are that
1) Avoidance can't be stacked with a shield.
2) Avoidance can't benefit from magic armor. (though bracers of defense would work just fine)
3) Avoidance doesn't require you to spend a small amount of gp on studded leather.
4) Avoidance allows you to appear completely unarmored, while still retaining a high AC. This could come in handy more in some campaigns than others, but I highly doubt that it is a huge concern.
At the end of the day, Avoidance is really just a different flavor of light armor and defense. It allows for the mechanical expression of an unarmored warrior who relies on their swiftness and precision to avoid blows.

Blitzkrieg: I'll be honest, I have my reservations here as well. I wanted to dabble in the idea of a style as defining your approach to combat, not just the weapons you wield.
As a comparison, assuming a 3 round combat.
Blitzkrieg grants a 10% higher chance of going first and +2 to attack and damage on the first turn, no bonuses on the 2nd or 3rd. That's a total of +2 damage per attack and +2 attack..per...attack... YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN DARNIT!
Dueling grants a +2 bonus to damage per attack for the whole combat. That's a total of +6, 3 times that of blitzkrieg.
Archery grants a +2 bonus to attack for the whole combat. That's a 10% increase in accuracy for rounds 2 and 3 as compared to blitzkrieg.

I concede that nova turns are definitely a thing. However, they are not the be all, end all. I've seen plenty of nova based parties get stomped on a single average combat with bad initiative rolls. Nova builds are inherently swingy from my experience. If I get more feedback, and/or see it used in play and find it is a bit much, I will probably remove one of the boni. An original version of the feat did not have the bonus to initiative, that was suggested by someone else and it seemed to fit. Thoughts?

After some further thought I've decided on a couple of changes for the Enlightened Warrior and the Veteran.
Enlightened Warrior
Eschew Limitations: Will now read "You may spend 1 ki point as a bonus action to immediately end any temporary effects applying the blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, or stunned condition, and remove those conditions. You may use this ability even if one of these conditions or the effect applying it would normally prevent you from doing so, as long as you are not incapacitated."

Veteran
My original version of this class had one or two more active abilities, but after collaborating with someone that I play with I scrapped them and ended up with this version. Now that I look at it, I would like at least one proactive ability. However, I'm not interested in a sheer power boost, and am more interested in encouraging tactical play. As such, I am going to move guardian to 15th level, and place this ability at 10th level.
Tactical Mastery
At 10th level, you gain the following abilities:
Weave Through the Fray: Whenever you use your Action Surge to take the Dash action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for leaving an enemy's reach for the rest of your turn.
Cover: Whenever you use your Action Surge to take the Dodge action, attacks made against allies within 5 feet of you are made with disadvantage until the start of your next turn. Furthermore, dexterity saves made by allies within 5 feet of you are made with advantage until the start of your next turn.
Backup Plan: Whenever you use your Action Surge to Ready an action and the triggering event does not occur, you regain the use of your Action Surge at the beginning of your next turn.

I believe that this highlights the versatility of Action Surge, and breaks up the Attack, Attack, Attack,......Attack monotony. I limited it to action surges because I wanted to avoid any possible degenerate situations that might occur from spamming these abilities.

Thoughts?

MrStabby
2015-04-22, 10:59 AM
Personally I think these changes pretty much fix those classes and in an entertaining way.

I think you got things just right when you said you had seen nova damage parties can suffer with poor initiative rolls. If you take that prospect away from them then they do become very, very powerful against a lot of encounters.

You can also think of the combat feats defensively. Over the three turns of combat how many hitpoints does each ability save by downing an enemy one or two turns earlier. Blitzkreig has a 1/10 chance of moving ahead of one enemy in initiative order. Chances of moving ahead of at least one of them rises with more initiative rolls. That is a 10% chance of avoiding a whole turn of damage from that target alone. Add in that anything that dies on turn 1 is in a state of not fighting you for one turn longer than something you take down on turn 2 and so on and the first turn bonus becomes even more significant. Don't forget that you have a bonus to attack rolls listed as well.

PotatoGolem
2015-04-22, 11:48 AM
It seems like the Tactical Mastery abilities are pretty weak compared to just using Action Surge to attack, so 10th is kind of a dead level for the veteran. Weave Through the Fray is essentially just combining Dash with Disengage with a minor upside. Yes, occasionally I'd want to be able to do that to escape a fight that's gone really, really south, but it's pretty rare. And only better than normal Dash+Disengage if you're surrounded and have to run through a horde or something to escape. Very niche.

Cover is the only one I could see actually using- it's a decent hold-the-line type deal. Situational, but less so than the other two.

Backup Plan seems entirely useless. This may just be my group, but I've never seen anyone use AS for readying an action. At level 10, you're giving up an attack. At level 11, you're giving up 2. Given that attacks no longer disrupt spellcasting, that's a huge downside.

I really like the idea of the veteran, but these abilities just seem very narrowly situational, which isn't great for a 10th-level ability.

Kerleth
2015-04-23, 01:16 AM
Well, potato, part of the point was to make normally unused options a little more appealing.
1) Actually, I wasn't thinking about running from combat with weave through the fray. I was thinking about charging THROUGH it to get to the squishy guy behind the guards. Your action surge by itself combines dash and disengage, allowing you to run double your movement without taking any opportunity attacks, and then unleashing a full attack. Not a bad trick for when the situation calls for it.
2) Unless I have completely misunderstood the Ready action, you can always ready an Attack action, which would still net you all the Extra Attacks when used. The idea with this is that you can set up a "just in case", and if it doesn't happen, you have lost nothing. (Well, except the fact that you chose not to nova that particular turn, but that isn't always the best choice). For example: If the wizard gets knocked out, I want to use my Healer feat to restore his hp. OR If one of the giants moves to within striking range of the wizard beside me, I want to take the Dodge action (which would then grant the benefit of Cover to the wizard). OR If the golem moves past the barbarian, I want my veteran archer to move back as far as he can. etc, etc.

Each of those abilities by itself IS a bit narrow. But when you take all of them together they give you a decent chunk of options. It's kind of like the charms in Magic: The Gathering. Each mode isn't as powerful as a card of it's cost, but the options granted by having them all let you be more able to choose the right tool for the job. Or at least that was the idea behind them.
(Please note that I'm not dismissing anyone's input. Just discussing it. I really appreciate everyone's feedback.)

EDIT: Added in a link to Samhain's Dragoon subclass.

Kerleth
2015-05-21, 11:07 AM
Finally back. Stupid real life and job.
Anyways, I've made a few changes and additions.

- Added the Acolyte of Himura martial archetype, a warrior based on speed and reading their opponents.
- Added in a handful of new battlemaster manuevers.
- Adjusted the Blitzkrieg fighting style by removing the bonus to attack, it just seemed a little too good.


Current Projects and issues
- Coming up with a less tongue in cheek name for the Acolyte of Himura
- A feat for medium armor users that highlights their versatility. Probably based on being a switch hitter.
- A feat/style for people who want to quickly swap between weapons.
- A feat for rapidly switching between sword and board or two handing versatile weapons.
- Rebalancing of the unarmored fighting style (Avoidance). Honestly, it's just worse than all the others. It requires high dexterity, so it would generally be a sword and board, two weapon fighter, or ranged combatant. However, making it not use a shield means you are still gonna end up with lower AC than an a light armor dexterity based fighter with the Defense fighting style. Adding a shield ruins the image it was going for. Two weapons requires you to NOT have the two weapon fighting style (cause you have this one instead). The only one it seems to work with is the ranged one, which was the one that I DIDN'T have in mind when I designed it, and simply buffing it would make it TOO good there :smallannoyed:.
-Linking more promising fighter centric material in the second post.
- A Soulknife inspired subclass. (Inspired as much by Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho as the dnd class)
- Whatever madness my deranged mind devises.

Ralanr
2015-05-21, 11:37 AM
Into the fray + feral instinct on barbs= "How am I not going first again?"

I like it.

Kerleth
2015-06-14, 08:17 PM
Big Update!

New Content:
-The Soulforge subclass. A warrior who conjures theirweapon from the pure urge to smash your face.
-Several new feats, including one specifically aimed at warriors who wield versatile weapons and like to switch between offense and defense, several for dabbling in the arts of war for non-fighters, and one specifically for those who like to wield one handed swords and nothing else.
-The opportunist and skirmish fighting styles.
-The buckler, a shield designed specifically for warriors who don't like to be locked into wielding a bulky shield and do like to occasionally go on the offensive or swing on chandeliers.
- A version of avoidance that I'm finally happy with. Man, for such a simple concept that was a PAIN to get just right.


Help Wanted:
-Still looking for a better name for the Acolyte of Himura. It was loosely inspired by Kenshin Himura from the Rurouni Kenshin Manga/Anime, but I can't think of a name that fits a fifth edition fighter with this subclass just right. Any and all suggestions welcome.
-Unique magic weapons. The kind of thing that a warrior would become famous for wielding. Any ideas or links would be appreciated.
-Ideas for how to make a hand-to-hand based fighter subclass that would feel different than the monk. I've done a ki-based weapon user in the enlightened warrior. Now I want a good non supernatural martial artist subclass.
-Links to any and all awesome homebrew. I'm semi-picky as far as what I actually allow without modification into my campaigns, but even if I don't quite agree with the balance or design style of a homebrew it might inspire me to make something of my own! Of course anything that I find to be good as-is will be linked in my second post.
-Inspiration! I've actually gotten done all the major ideas that I had in mind when I started this thread, so now I'm looking for the more exotic ideas. Fighting styles designed to be used with warrior spellcasters, fighters that channel the power of the elemental planes through their own bodies, generals of the undead horde. Link me, baby!

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-06-19, 09:56 AM
Veteran: First off, yes, so much yes involved. I love the idea of the gritty experienced fighter who is awesome because he pays attention in only the way a fighter can.


Combat Expertise
Starting at 7th level, you gain proficiency in athletics, and may add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks. If you are already proficient in athletics, you gain proficiency in a single skill of your choice, but still add twice your proficiency bonus to athletics checks. Furthermore, you may attempt to escape a grapple or stand up from prone as a bonus action.

Nitpick: Could this specify that the selected skill be originally strength based? Maybe allow dex skills if there aren't enough str ones. Main reason for asking is I'm having issues allowing the fighter to grab any skill with a feature titled Combat Expertise. Other thought is to limit it to fighter skills only.
Clarification: The standing from prone as a bonus action, does that still consume half of your movement?



Tactical Mastery
cover: Whenever you use your action surge to take the dodge action, attacks made against allies within 5 feet of you are made with disadvantage until the start of your next turn. Furthermore, dexterity saves made by allies within 5 feet of you are made with advantage until the start of your next turn.

Would it be easier to just say that allies within 5ft of you gain the benefits of the Dodge action?



guardian
Beginning at 15th level, you may take one additional reaction each round. This additional reaction must be used to make an opportunity attack. Additionally, opportunity attacks made against you or allies within 5 feet of you have disadvantage.

Name pickiness, why not call it combat reflexes? Other than that I like it, fighter already breaks action economy. If it proves to be too oppressive then maybe make it something you can do only so many times a short rest.

Enlightened Warrior
I like the concept a lot and to be honest, the only feature that I felt was a little out there in 3.x realm was 'Chasing perfection'. Its neat and flavorful, but very paperwork intensive at times and might require a bit more than standard bookkeeping (even for a temporary thing). Have you considered allowing the fighter to add his prof to skills and ability saves that doesn't already have it?

More review to come, still digesting. . .

Kerleth
2015-06-19, 08:13 PM
Thank you for the input. I think that some of the best responses are those that point by point address parts of someone's homebrew. So both to you and to everyone else who has ever responded in that way to ANYONE's homebrew in the past, thank you very much.

1) By default you get athletics, which is actually the only strength based skill in 5th edition. You only choose a skill if you are already proficient in that one. This is based on a long time 3E house rule at my table. If a class would give you a bonus feat, and you had already picked it up, you could take any other bonus feat you qualified for. Why? Because you already gave a feat slot that you could have used to pick up ANY other feat to pick up that part of your training early. It's the same basic idea here. A fighter would normally gain proficiency and expertise all at once at this level. Pretty much, a behind the scenes Rocky style training montage. If you are already proficient, then you are that much of a leg up on your training and can afford to branch out. Personally, I feel that allowing a fighter to take History is no more out of character than suddenly gaining sleight of hand. And honestly, this is YOUR fighter. If your fighter wants to pick up proficiency in ancient muldoran basket weaving, go for it. I see having a single "out of character" skill as a perk, not a drawback. It allows for more varied and less cliche fighters. A core fighter gets both intimidation and perception as possible class skills, not to mention the completely open nature of backgrounds. And this subclass in particular gains training in a wider array of skills via the 3rd level ability. It just seems much simpler and better to allow you to grab any skill in my opinion.

1b) I figured it went without saying that you were using the bonus action instead of your movement. After all, it would otherwise be objectively worse than not having the ability. Do you really think it's necessary to add in a "without spending any of your movement" onto the ability? At a certain point the wordiness becomes overkill and does more harm than good, and I want to keep that subclass in particular fairly short and to the point.

2)It might be, but it just seemed clumsy to me for some reason. Honestly it's probably a matter of tomayto, tomahto, since they both mean the same thing.

3)Actually, I had originally called it combat reflexes, but then I added in the part where it protects your allies from opportunity attacks as well,and it just didn't seem to fit just right. Since this ability is all about protect your allies and punishing enemies who go after them guardian seemed good. Besides, I have two other much more behind the scenes reasons. One, I have seen complaints about the repurposing of old names before. It also brings some baggage along, meaning that people might gloss over parts of the ability and only remember the part that is similar to the old one. And two, reusing old names is kind of the low hanging fruit, so it's easy to use them if I can't come up with a more appropriate name for an ability. This way I get to save combat reflexes for some other homebrew :smallredface:

3b) I highly doubt it would end up too oppressive. At absolute worst you're talking being able to lock down two creatures via sentinel and polearm master. That is assuming that you hit with both attacks and that the enemies don't have extended reach or ranged abilities or legendary actions that get around it. I really don't see it getting out of hand. It is NICE to have cool tricks that give you a huge advantage every now and then.

4) Yeah, I am aware that particular ability of the enlightened warrior is very 3rd editiony. I played around with some other ways of handling it to get the same effect, but was never quite satisfied with them. Since fighter is a pretty simple class anyways, and that's the single most complicated thing in the subclass, AND it's an only one ability out of several, I think it will fly. Simple is good, but pushing the boundaries every so often to get just the right effect isn't the end of the world. I am most definitely open to further discussion on this one though. It's probably my single biggest doubt about the subclass.



Very much looking forward to any more critiques. Also, a question. I generally think my subclasses through pretty well and run them by one or two people before ever posting them online. As such, when someone points out a flaw or improvement for an ability, I tend to discuss why I did it that way to begin with. That way there can be a more complete understanding and a point by point listing of pros and cons if necessary. I have wondered in the past if that came across as hostile to criticism to some people. Does anyone get that impression?