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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Rogue Redux + Other Stuff [WIP]



MesiDoomstalker
2015-05-01, 01:33 AM
So a while back I decided to do a complete redux of Core. After working on it for a solid month, I had a smattering of feats and new general rules/options and a redone (but somewhat incomplete) Rogue Class. After that, it kind of fell by the wayside. I recently found it in my documents and decided to post it here. It is still incomplete and I'm really looking at how to balance the new features, between strength and availability. Additionally, I want more ideas (I think I ran dry which is part the reason I stopped working on it).

A few things to keep in mind in how I designed the class:

Options: Above all else, I wanted to give more options, to make each Rogue unique.
No Dead Levels: I have, technically, succeeded in this, where you always have a new option or progression of an ability at every level. Though I feel its a hollow victory.
Dirty Fighter: I've always imagined Rogues as the type to result to any dirty tactic to win, so the major new additions, Dirty Tricks and Cheap Shots, reflect this mentality.
Skill Monkey: Similarly, I've always seen Rogues as the paragon of Skill Monkery (or at least their supposed to), so to reflect this, I bumped up their Skills per level and added the Skillful Class Feature. I haven't made changes to Skill List as I'm not sure what I could add that stays thematic.

Rogue
Hitdie: d6

Skills: The rogue’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha),Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int),Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str),Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points: 10 + Int (x4 at first level)



Lv
BAB
FORT
REF
WILL
SPECIAL
CHEAP SHOTS
DIRTY TRICKS


1
+1
+0
+2
+0


Sneak Attack 1d6, Trapfinding

1
2


2
+2
+0
+3
+1

Evasion, Skillful (1)

1
3


3
+3
+1
+3
+1
Sneak Attack 2d6, Trap Sense +1
2
4


4
+4
+1
+4
+2
Uncanny Dodge, Skillful (2)
2
4


5
+5
+1
+4
+2

Sneak Attack 3d6

+1
+0


6
+6/+1
+2
+5
+3
Trap Sense +2, Skillful (3)

3
6


7
+7/+2
+2
+5
+3

Sneak Attack 4d6

4
7


8
+8/+3
+2
+6
+4

Improved Uncanny Dodge, Skillful (4)

4
7


9
+9/+4
+6
+6
+6
Sneak Attack 5d6, Trap Sense +3
5
8


10
+10/+5
+3
+7
+5

Skillful (5)

5
9


11
+11/+6/+1
+3
+7
+5

Sneak Attack 6d6

6
10


12
+12/+7/+2
+4
+8
+6

Trap Sense +4, Skillful (6)

6
10


13
+13/+8/+3
+4
+8
+6
Sneak Attack 7d6
7
11


14
+14/+9/+4
+4
+9
+7
Skillful (7)
7
12


15
+15/+10/+5/
+5
+9
+7

Sneak Attack 8d6, Trap Sense +5

8
13


16
+16/+11/+6/+1
+5
+10
+8
Skillful (8)
8
13


17
+17/+12/+7/+2
+5
+10
+8

Sneak Attack 9d6

9
14


18
+18/+13/+8/+3
+6
+11
+8

Trap Sense +6, Skillful (9)

9
15


19
+19/+14/+9/+4
+6
+11
+9
Sneak Attack 10d6
10
16


20
+20/+15/+10/+5
+6
+12
+9
Skillful (10)
10
16



Class Features

Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all Simple Weapons, all Finessable and Light Martial Weapons, plus hand crossbow, sap, and shortbow. Rogues are proficient with Light Armor but no shields.

Sneak Attack (Ex): If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Trapfinding (Ex): Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Cheap Shots (Variable): Rogues are cunning and tricky fighters, doing anything to ensure victory. Cheap Shots are a series of special attacks that trade Sneak Attack dice in return for rider effects on the attacks. When a Rogue declares the first attack action for the round, he may declare to be using one or more Cheap Shots before he rolls any die. Cheap Shots can be declared even if the Rogue cannot Sneak Attack or even against a target immune to Sneak Attack. The Rogue subtracts the number of Sneak Attack Dice from all attacks till the start of the next round (but only if the attack is a Sneak Attack) as called out by the Cheap Shot(s). Cheap Shots only affect a target if they are successfully hit by a Sneak Attack.

Cheap Shots are listed below. At every level a Rogue gains a new Sneak Attack die, they may choose one additional Cheap Shot he qualifies for. When declaring Cheap Shots, you may apply as many Cheap Shots as you desire but you must have at least one Sneak Attack Die remaining. Cheap Shots, unless otherwise specified, can be used At-Will, last till the end of the encounter and require no action by themselves (though they require an Attack Action to declare). If a Cheap Shot gives a Saving Throw, it is 10 + ˝ Rogue Levels + Dex Modifier.

Special: If a Prestige Class grants Sneak Attack Dice, a Rogue (and only a Rogue) gains a new Cheap Shot whenever they gain a Sneak Attack Die through a Prestige Class that he qualifies for and such Prestige Classes count as Rogue levels for determining Saving Throws of Cheap Shots. Sneak Attack Die granted from non-Class sources including but not limited to; Spells, Items, or Maneuvers, do not grant additional Cheap Shots known, but can be used to fuel Cheap Shots.
Special: Sudden Strike and Skirmish Dice function as Sneak Attack Dice for Cheap Shots but do not grant additional Cheap Shots known.

Dirty Tricks (Variable): Rogues are crafty and cunning using their environment and underhanded tactics to get things done in a pinch. Dirty Tricks are special actions that enable Rogues to perform extraordinary tasks that enable themselves and their allies or harm his opponents. Unlike Cheap Shots, Dirty Tricks don’t trade Sneak Attack Die and many don’t even require an attack. The number of Dirty Tricks a Rogue knows is determined by his level, as in the table above.

Dirty Tricks are listed below, and a Rogue can take any that he qualifies for when he can learn a new Dirty Trick. Unless otherwise specified, Dirty Tricks are Swift Actions and can only be used once per encounter. There are two general types of Dirty Tricks, Combat and Skill. Combat Dirty Tricks focus on combat usually debuffing the opponent or enabling Sneak Attacks. Skill Dirty Tricks allow use of Skills in a hasty or unique manner above and beyond the norm.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Skillful (Ex): At 2nd level, a Rogue’s training has begun to hone on a specific skillset. At level 2 and every other level after, a Rogue can choose any Skill he has at least 1 rank in to be Skilled. Skilled Skills grant the Rogue the Skill Focus feat in that Skill.

Starting at level 8, a Rogue can choose to make a Skill Expert, instead of Skilled. A Expert Skill can always take 10 in, with no negative consequences and even under stressful situations such as combat. A Rogue can only choose skills that are Skilled and at least 7 ranks in to become Expert.

Starting at level 12, a Rogue can choose to make an Expert Skill a Mastered Skill. A Mastered Skill can be done much more quickly than normal, without penalty. If a Skill takes 10 minutes normally, it only takes 1 minute, a 1 minute skill takes only 1 round, and a skill that takes 1 round takes a Standard Action, a Standard Action skill takes a Move Action, a Move Action skill takes a Swift Action. If a Skill does not require an action of its own (Ex: Knowledge), or are part of a different action (Ex: Climb), they can not be Mastered. A Rogue can only choose a an Expert Skill with at least 11 Ranks to become Mastered.

Trap Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

I've only have ideas for these thus far. Most these need perquisites of some kind and more definite mechanics. And more options, I'd like at least 25 Cheap Shots and 35 Dirty Tricks.
Slice Tendon: Str Penalty, Drop what it is holding
Hamstring: Dex penalty, movement penalty
Bloodletting: Con penalty, constant low damage.
Concussive Strike: Int Penalty, Concentration to cast spells
something something Wisdom Penalty, something
Something something Charisma Penalty, something
Split Tongue: 50% Spell Failure with Verbal Components. Incomhernprisa;ldkjf;al **** that word
Eye Gouge: -10 Spot, -20 Search, 20% miss chance on all attack rolls. Blinded if all are gone (Also disables Beholder's Eye Rays)
Penetrating Strikes (Special): By halving the maximum number of Sneak Attack Dice you can deal, you can Sneak Attack opponents normally immune to Sneak Attack. This does not allow Sneak Attacks when they would not normally occur or against opponents that are not currently vulnerable to Sneak Attack. Cheap Shots used in conjunction with Penetrating Strikes can also bypass other Immunites; Ability Damage, Elemental Immunity,
Overwhelm: Remove X amount of DR or Energy Resistence, where X is the number of traded SA dice after hitting. Must deal that type of damage (Fire for Fire Resistance, Good for DR/Good). Multiple hits stack.
Chink: Remove X amount of Natural Armor, where X is the SA dice traded. Natural Armor can not drop below +0. Multiple hits stack.
Magic Suppression: Reduce SR by X where X is twice the SA dice traded. SR can not drop below 0, and at 0, SR is completely removed. Does not stack with further uses of Magic Suppression, only the best result is used.
Crib Spell: You may steal one active spell effect from the target. The maximum spell level that can be stolen is the number of die traded -1. This ability functions like teh Spellthief ability, Steal Spell Effect in all otherways except using Rogue levels and Dexterity modifer instead of Caster Level and Charisma modifier respectively.
Maim: Disable a limb, associated penalties
Dismember: Remove a limb, associated penalties. Not the head. Or maybe, I dunno? At higher levels, treat weapons as Vorpal? Vorpal sucks. Its terribad Never said it wasn't.


Advertise Weakness: Against opponet SA this round, allies may SA the same target for half the dice that the rogue did until the start of the rogue's next turn.
Sand in the Eyes: Blinded for a round
Slip Away: Escape a grapple by shedding armor. Only usable when armor is worn. Stacking -1 AC for remainder of encounter (not ALL the armor, silly).
Blind Spot: For opponet you are using dodge on, you are considered invisible temporarily 1d4+1 rounds?
Human Shield: On successful ref save, an adjacent enemy is instead targetted by the effect (Requires Spellcraft if is a Spell)
Rogue Eye: Always aware if a room/door is trapped or contains secret compartments/passages, though the location and function of these aren't known maybe a limitation based on Search DC and Search Ranks.
Silver Tongue: Your next Bluff attempt automatically succeeds, but only for 1 minute. After 1 minute, all who heard the lie automatically know it was a falsehood. This fools Zone of Truth but not Discern Lies.
Trigger Trap: Trigger a primed trap without a Disable Device check. This does not grant protection to the trap for you or your allies.
Technical Knack: A quick survey of a trap divines its use and dangers. +10 Disable Device checks against that Trap.
Spot the Difference: You are acutely aware of subtle differences in each individual. You can tell if an individual is an imposter, but only if you are familiar with the person they are impersonating.
Duck and Cover: After getting hit, make a Hide check to hide behind Adjacent Cover as Imm. Action.
Defensive Roll: As per regular Rogue except any time dropping below 0 and on success, will always have at least 1 HP.
Opportunist: As per regular Rogue
Slippery Mind: May reroll saving throw for any Spell, SLA or Supernatural Effect that had a Will Save. May be done regardless of the effect of the Spell, SLA, or Supernatural effect's effect. IE: Can be done even if Dominated and commanded to not do so. May only be used once per instance of an effect.
Strap Cut: Full-Round Action, make an attack. Deals no damage, but removes opponents Armor. -4 to-hit Sounds about right
Whats that Over There!: Swift Action Feint. Target Flat-Footed for 1 round.
Devilish Luck: When rolling a natural 1 on an Attack or Saving Throw, it is not an automatic failure if you spend one Luck Point. Add all modifiers and check for success. This counts as a [Luck] Feat and grants 1 Luck Point.
Critical Awesome: When you score a critical hit and succeed on the confirmation roll, the attack is a Sneak Attack. Does not allow Sneak Attacks on targets normally immune to Sneak Attacks.
Go for the Throat: Swift Action, expand crit range by 3. Does not stack with Improved Critical or Keen.
Rapid Strike: Standard Action, a single attack which the opponent is Flat-Footed.
Swift Strike: As Rapid Strike but, Swift Action.
Lightning Strike: As Rapid Strike but Free Action.

darkbuu_1
2015-05-03, 04:52 AM
Yes, pulling dirty tricks and taking cheap shot is exactly what a rogue should be doing. I'm defiantly going to be keeping an eye on this, unfortunately I'm not great at balance stuff so bare that in mind during this next bit.

Before I help with what you actually ask for there are a couple of things I'd like to bring up that don't feel quite right.

It's strange to see a rogue with full BAB even from just a flavour perspective, I see the rogue as having to rely on tactics and the element of surprise in order to get their hits in rather than just being able to run straight up to a guy and smacking them upside the head.

More from a system consistency thing but there hasn't been a Ok save before.

The 10/level skill points seems kind of a lot.

At level 5 your "Cheap Shots" and "Dirty Trick" table are listed as +0 and +1, from context I think they were meant to be 3 and 5.

Is there any way to cure Cheap Shots either through magic or heal checks?

How do you feel about the idea of also allowing Skillful to turn a skill into class skill?

And finally, I can't think of anything but Rogue still needs an exciting capstone.

Now down to business:
These are a few conditions that you aren't already using for Cheap Shots that I think would suit; Sicken/Shaken, Fatigued, Energy Drained and Deafened. Other effects you could use are increasing the critical modifier of weapons when attacking a sneak attacked creature, inflicting a spell failure chance or making it hard to concentrate, weakening a natural weapon, damaging caster level, Flat footed until the start of your turn and putting people to sleep (but mostly for out of combat stuff). Yours are mostly unique so I think you know but Complete Scoundrel had Ambush Feats (http://kahdnd.pbworks.com/w/page/40454908/Ambush%20Feats) and there are a few of a similar idea in Dragon Mag 344 as well as a few other places.

As for Dirty Tricks, something that lets you use another dirty trick again, some kind of bonus to disarm or pickpocketing, giving a blur effect for a while or always blurred while moving.

I'm looking forward to see what become of this.

nonsi
2015-05-04, 12:08 AM
The Rogue having full BAB doesn't sit well with me.
Not that I'm against agile warriors, but the whole idea behind the Rogue, is compensating for lower martial prowess with subtlety, finesse, trickery, improvisation and cheap shots.
If a class that's tagged 'Rogue' has full BAB, then either it doesn't have enough flesh to fit the character or its too powerful.