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altfuldisch
2015-05-10, 03:41 PM
Hi playground, I tried making a Wu Jen for 5e. Any of you got any insights into balance, fun, etc.?
I'm sorta stuck with the archetypes to be honest. I want them all to empower their own element, but at the moment they are WAY to similar in my opinion. Actually, they are the exact same, just with each bonus affecting a different element. But is that enough of an impact to make it an archetype? I'm a but stumped here and input would be much appreciated :)


Wu Jen
Wu Jen are spellcasters with mysterious powers. They command the elements, spirit forces and powers of nature. They are seldom found living with the rest of society. Instead they live as hermits in the wilderness, purifying their bodies and minds to contact various natural and supernatural powers of the world. From these entities, they learn their spells – magical means to control the invisible forces of the world.
When Wu Jen learn a spell, they tattoo it onto their body with spiritual symbols, written in exotic languages. Experienced Wu Jen have tattoos covering almost their entire body, even all the way to their fingertips. The best Wu Jen are easily recognizable, as they are literally covered in tattoos from top to bottom, even covering their faces.
Watching a Wu Jen tattoo herself is a marvel to behold, which most people would gladly pay coin for witnessing. She sits on her Book of Elements and mixes her ink with dirt, tiny metallic shrapnel, drops of water and a few splinters of wood. She then dips her fingers in the ink, and starts drawing on her skin, while her fire magic heats the ink, and burns it into her skin. It can take many hours for a Wu Jen to finish even a single tattoo.

http://i.imgur.com/QHOybsB.png



Level
Prof. Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
Spell casts
--------------------------Spells Known-------------------------


1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
Bonus Languages, Watchful Spirit, Spellcasting, Taboo
3
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
Elemental Mastery
3
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
Spell Secret
3
2
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4
2
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
-
4
3
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
Spell Secret
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
-
4
3
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-


9th
+4
-
4
4
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
Elemental Mastery
5
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
Spell Secret
5
5
4
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
5
5
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-


13th
+5
Elemental Erasure
5
5
4
4
4
4
3
2
1
-
-


14th
+5
Elemental Mastery
5
6
4
4
4
4
3
3
2
-
-


15th
+5
-
5
6
4
4
4
4
4
3
2
1
-


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
5
6
4
4
4
4
4
3
3
2
-


17th
+6
Spell copy
5
7
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
2
1


18th
+6
-
5
7
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3
2


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
5
7
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3


20th
+6
Spell Secret (2)
5
8
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4

























Class Features
As a Wu Jen, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d4 per Wu Jen level
Hit Points at 1st level: 4 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at higher levels: 1d4 (0r 2) + your Constitution modifier per kensai level after 1st
Proficiencies


Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Tattoo tools
Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma
Skills: Choose three from Arcana, Deception, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature and Religion

Equipement
You start with the following equipment in addition to equipment gained by your background
· Any simple weapon, a Book of Elements, some ink and a feather
· (a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
· (a) a scholar’s pack or (b) a dungeoneer’s pack

Bonus Languages
At 1st level you learn two exotic languages of your choice.

Watchful Spirit
Once per long rest, beginning at 1st level, the Wu Jen has advantage on initiative rolls.

Spellcasting
Wu Jen do not use spell books as other casters do. Instead, they learn a spell by tattooing it on their body. Tattooing a spell onto her body, takes one hour for every spell level. They do however also carry around with them a Book of Elements, written in a mix of two exotic languages, where they note down spells they observed being cast. When a Wu Jen sees a spell cast by another, she must within the next 24 hours spend 20 minutes for each of the spell’s levels, to record it accurately. Once recorded, she may learn this spell by tattooing it on her body, as soon as she meets the requirements (as described in the Wu Jen table). Aside from spells written down in this manner, the Wu Jen can only learn Wu Jen spells (found at the end of the class description). A Wu Jen can record any number of spells in her Book of Elements, but she can only learn a certain amount of spells of each spell level, and she cannot cast a spell at a higher level than its base level. The Wu Jen has a certain amount of casts between long rests, with which she can cast any spell she knows, no matter its level.


Spellcasting ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your Wu Jen spells, so you use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a Wu Jen spell you cast and when you make an attack with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your Wu Jen spells.

Taboo
To maintain their supernatural power, Wu Jen must abide by certain taboos that might seem inconsequential to other characters but are vitally important to the Wu Jen. If a Wu Jen violates one of her taboos, she cannot cast any more spells before finishing a long rest. A Wu Jen must choose one taboo at 1st level, and one additional taboo every time she learns a spell secret. Possible taboos include:
· Cannot eat meat.
· Cannot own more that she can carry.
· Must make a daily offering (such as food, flowers or incence) to one or many spirit powers.
· Cannot bathe.
· Cannot cut her hair.
· Cannot touch a dead body.
· Cannot drink alcohol.
· Cannot wear a certain color.
· Cannot light a fire.
· Cannot sit facing in a certain direction.

Elemental Mastery
At 2nd level, you begin to master an elemental type. Choose between earth, fire, metal, water and wood. Your mastery grants your features at 2nd level, and then again at 10th and 14th level.


Spell Secret
At 3rd level a Wu Jen can choose one spell known to her that then becomes permanently modified as thou affected by one of the following metamagic feats: Heightened Spell, Extended Spell, Quickened Spell or Subtle Spell, all detailed at the end of the class description. The spell’s level does not change, and once the choice of spell and modification are chosen, they cannot be changed. As the Wu Jen goes up in level, she can choose the same spell to be modified in different ways with multiple spell secrets. The Wu Jen gains another spell secret at 6th, 11th and 20th level. At 20th level the Wu Jen gains two spell secrets.

Ability Score Increase
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2 or two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Elemental Erasure
Beginning at 13th level, the Wu Jen can replace a known spell with another spell written in her Book of Elements. To do this, she must first erase the tattoo on her body that represents the spell she wishes to unlearn. This takes two hours for every spell level, gives the Wu Jen one level of exhaustion and requires her to expend five spell casts. When the tattoo is erased, she can then tattoo a new spell onto her body. Once a spell tattoo has been removed, she can never again learn that spell, even if she observes somebody else casting it, and writes it down in her Book of Elements.

Spell Copy
Beginning at 17th level, whenever you see an instant spell being cast, you can now cast that spell yourself for the remainder of the combat. The spell must be of a spell level of which you know four spells.


Elemental Mastery: Earth


Elemental Resistance: Acid
Upon reaching 2nd level, you gain resistance to acid damage.

Earth Empowerment
Upon reaching 2nd level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Earth element, you cast it as if you were one level higher.

Earth Focus
Upon reaching 10th level, you know can cast Wu Jen spells up to 4th level that are of the Earth element as a bonus action.

Superior Earth Empowerment
Upon reaching 10th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Earth element, you cast it as if you were two levels higher.

Elemental Immunity: Acid
Upon reaching 14th level, you gain immunity to acid damage.

Greater Earth Empowerment
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Earth element, you cast it as if you were three levels higher.


Elemental Mastery: Fire


Elemental Resistance: Fire
Upon reaching 2nd level, you gain resistance to fire damage.

Fire Empowerment
Upon reaching 2nd level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Fire element, you cast it as if you were one level higher.

Fire Focus
Upon reaching 10th level, you know can cast Wu Jen spells up to 4th level that are of the Fire element as a bonus action.

Superior Fire Empowerment
Upon reaching 10th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Fire element, you cast it as if you were two levels higher.

Elemental Immunity: Acid
Upon reaching 14th level, you gain immunity to fire damage.

Greater Earth Empowerment
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Fire element, you cast it as if you were three levels higher.


Elemental Mastery: Metal


Elemental Resistance: Force
Upon reaching 2nd level, you gain resistance to force damage.

Metal Empowerment
Upon reaching 2nd level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Metal element, you cast it as if you were one level higher.

Metal Focus
Upon reaching 10th level, you know can cast Wu Jen spells up to 4th level that are of the Metal element as a bonus action.

Superior Metal Empowerment
Upon reaching 10th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Metal element, you cast it as if you were two levels higher.

Elemental Immunity: Force
Upon reaching 14th level, you gain immunity to force damage.

Greater Metal Empowerment
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Metal element, you cast it as if you were three levels higher.


Elemental Mastery: Water


Elemental Resistance: Cold
Upon reaching 2nd level, you gain resistance to cold damage.

Water Empowerment
Upon reaching 2nd level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Water element, you cast it as if you were one level higher.

Water Focus
Upon reaching 10th level, you know can cast Wu Jen spells up to 4th level that are of the Water element as a bonus action.

Superior Water Empowerment
Upon reaching 10th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Water element, you cast it as if you were two levels higher.

Elemental Immunity: Cold
Upon reaching 14th level, you gain immunity to cold damage.

Greater Water Empowerment
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Water element, you cast it as if you were three levels higher.



Elemental Mastery: Wood


Elemental Resistance: Lightning
Upon reaching 2nd level, you gain resistance to lightning damage.

Wood Empowerment
Upon reaching 2nd level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Wood element, you cast it as if you were one level higher.

Wood Focus
Upon reaching 10th level, you know can cast Wu Jen spells up to 4th level that are of the Wood element as a bonus action.

Superior Wood Empowerment
Upon reaching 10th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Wood element, you cast it as if you were two levels higher.

Elemental Immunity: Lightning
Upon reaching 14th level, you gain immunity to lightning damage.

Greater Wood Empowerment
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you cast a Wu Jen spell of the Wood element, you cast it as if you were three levels higher.



Metamagic


Heightened Spell
When a creature must make a saving throw against your spell, it has disadvantage on the roll. Only usable on single target spells.

Extended Spell
If the spell has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you double its duration to a maximum duration of 24 hours.

Quickened Spell
The spell costs a bonus action to cast instead of an action.

Subtle Spell
The spell can be cast without any somatic or verbal components.



Wu Jen Spells


Cantrips
· Dancing Lights
· Ray of Frost
· Thaumaturgy
· Prestidigitation
· Detect Magic
· Detect Poison and Disease
· Light
· Mage Hand
· Mending
· Message
· Resistance

1st level Spells



Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Endure Elements
All
Self
1 action
VS
Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.


Hail of Stone
Earth
30 ft.
1 action
VS
Hail of Stone deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage for every Wu Jen level. Maximum 5d4.


Fiery Eyes
Fire
30 ft.
1 action
S
Your glowing eyes illuminate the area and can ignite combustible items.


Melt
Fire
30 ft.
1 action
VS
Melt ice and snow or deal 2 fire damage to magical ice or cold creatures. Maximum 20 damage.


Smoke Ladder
Fire
5 ft.
1 action
VSC (a piece of burnt wood)
Smoke transforms into a ladder up to 10 ft. long per Wu Jen level. Maximum 50 ft.


Iron Scarf
Metal
Self
1 action
VS
Your next successful ranged attack deals 1d8 + 1 for every Wu Jen level as piercing damage on top of its normal damage.


Magic Weapon
Metal
Self
Ritual
VSC (coins worth at least 1.000gp)
Your weapon gains +1 as long as it is wielded by you.


Cobra’s Breath
Water
10 ft.
1 action
VSC (a drop of venom)
Cone of poison that deals 1d4 Poison damage. If hit a creature must make a Constitution saving throw or become poisoned.


Obscuring Mist
Water
Self
1 action
V
Fog that only you can see through surrounds you.


Backbiter
Wood
30 ft.
1 action
VS
An enemy wielding a weapon with a wooden handle, must make a Strength saving throw to avoid his weapon striking himself.




2nd level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Bear’s Endurance
Earth
Touch
1 action
VSC (a herb or plant)
Grant a creature 2d6 temporary hit points for every three Wu Jen levels. Maximum of 6d6.


Bull’s Strength
Earth
Self
1 action
VSC (piece of horn from a bull)
Grant yourself +4 Strength. Lasts 1 minute for every three Wu Jen levels.


Cat’s Grace
Fire
Self
1 action
VSC (a single cat hair)
Grant yourself +4 Dexterity. Lasts 1 minute for every three Wu Jen levels.


Fire Shuriken
Fire
20 ft.
1 action
VS
Magical shuriken that deal 3d6 fire damage.


Pyrotechnics
Fire
60 ft.
1 action
S
Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke.


Entangling Scarf
Metal
Self
1 action
V
Your next successful ranged attack restricts a foe.


Piercing Protection
Metal
Touch
1 action
VS
The subject gains resistance to piercing damage.


Rain of Needles
Metal
30 ft.
1 action
VS
Ranged attacks for you and all allies within range, deal an additional 1d4 for every two Wu Jen levels. Lasts 3 rounds.


Ice Blast
Water
20 ft.
1 action.
VS
A spray of ice crystals that deals 1d6 cold damage for every two Wu Jen levels. The ground beneath the target turns to ice.


Ice Knife
Water
30 ft.
1 action
S
A magical shard of ice that deals 2d8 cold damage.


Swim
Water
Self
1 action
VS
The caster may swim at twice ther movement speed for 1 minute per Wu Jen level.


Warp Wood
Wood
30 ft.
1 action
S
Bends wood (shaft, handle, door, plank)


Wood Shape
Wood
30 ft.
1 action
S
Rearranges wooden objects to suit you.




3rd level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Earthbolt
Earth
20 ft.
1 action
VS
A seismic pulse that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every Wu Jen level to all creatures in a straight line. A successful Dexterity save deals half damage.


Fire Wings
Fire
Self
1 action
V
Your arms become flaming wings capable of flight and dealing +2d6 fire damage on unarmed attacks.


Fireball
Fire
150 ft.
1 action
VS
Deals 1d6 fire damage for every Wu Jen level in a 30 ft. radius.


Keen Edge
Metal
Self
Ritual
VSC (coins worth at least 1.000gp)
Your weapon can now lands a critical hit on a 19-20 as long as it is wielded by you.


Greater Magic Weapon
Metal
Self
Ritual
VSC (coins worth at least 5.000gp)
Your weapon gains +1 for every 4 Wu Jen levels as long as it is wielded by you.


Magnetism
Metal
10 ft.
1 action
VSM (a small piece of magnetic metal)
Draw all metal objects with a handheld size within 10 ft. to you. Creatures holding metal objects are allowed a DC 30 Strength save.


Gaseous Form
Water
Touch
1 action
VS
Subject becomes insubstantial and gets a flying speed of 10 ft.


Steah Breath
Water
5 ft.
1 action
VS
Superheated steam deals 1d6 fire damage for every Wu Jen level. Maximum 10d6.


Stinking Cloud
Water
60 ft.
1 action
VS
Places a nauseating vapor that deals 2d10 poison damage every round within a 15 ft. radius. Lasts for one turn per Wu Jen level.


Water Breathing
Water
Touch
1 action
VS
Affected creatures can breathe underwater for 1 minute per Wu Jen level.


Plant Growth
Wood
150 ft.
1 action or 8hours
VS
PHB p. 266


Thornskin
Wood
Self
1 action
S
Your unarmed attacks deal +1d6 piercing damage and unarmed attacks against you take 1d6 damage.




4th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Elemental Ward
All
60 ft.
1 action
VS
Drives elementals away.


Scrying
All
Self
1 action
VS
PHB p. 273


Dimension Door
Earth
500 ft.
1 action
V
PHB p. 233


Stoneskin
Earth
Touch
1 action
VS
PHB p. 278


Fire Shield
Fire
Self
1 action
VS
PHB p. 242


Fire Trap
Fire
90 ft.
1 action
VS
You can place a fire trap on an openable object. Once it is opened, the creature having done so takes 1d4 fire damage, increased by 1 damage for every Wu Jen level.


Wall of Fire
Fire
120 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 285


Dancing Blade
Metal
Touch
1 action
SM (a live mouse)
The targeted weapon fights independently. It gains your Intelligence modifier and proficiency bonus as attack modifier and Intelligence modifier as its damage modifier. It acts during your turn.


Rusting Grasp
Metal
Touch
1 action
SM (a piece of corroded or rusted metal)
Your touch corrodes iron and alloys.


Ice Storm
Water
300 ft.
1 action
VSN (a pinch of dust and a few drops of water)
PHB p. 252


Wall of Ice
Water
120 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 285


Water to Poison
Water
5 ft.
1 action
S
Turns water into poison, even if freshly ingested.


Antiplant Shell
Wood
Self
1 action
S
Animated plants within 60 ft. of the caster are frightened by the sight of him.




5th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Stone Shape
Earth
Touch
1 action
VS
Sculpts stone into any shape smaller than it’s original size


Wall of Stone
Earth
120 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 287


Fire Breath
Fire
10 ft.
1 action
V
Your breath becomes fire that extends over several rounds. While breathing fire you cannot cast spells that require a verbal component. Deals 1d8 fire damage for every two Wu Jen levels for 1 round per Wu Jen level. You can stop breathing fire at any time as a free action.


Metal Skin
Metal
Self
1 action
VS
Grants the caster +8 AC and reduces movement by 15 ft. Lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Wu Jens level. You can cancel Metal Skin at any time as a free action.


Cone of Cold
Water
60 ft. cone
1 action
VS
PHB p. 224


Wood Rot
Wood
20 ft.
1 action
S
Destroy a wooden item within range or deal 3d6 +1 damage for every Wu Jen level as unresistable damage to plant creatures.




6th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Flesh to Stone
Earth
60 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p.243


Move Earth
Earth
300 ft.
1 action
VS
Dig trenches or buld hills.


Stone to Flesh
Earth
60 ft.
1 action
VS
Does the exact opposite of Flesh to Stone.


Fire Seeds
Fire
Self
1 action
VS
Up to five acorns and berries in your posession become grenades that you can throw for 3d6 fire damage in a 10 ft. radius. They explode as soon as a creature other than the caster touches them.


Spirit Needle
Metal
20 ft.
1 action
VS
Needles pin an ethereal creature, so it becomes restrained. It is allowed a Wisdom saving throw to negate the effect at the end of each of its turns.


Control Water
Water
300 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 227


Ironwood
Wood
Touch
1 action
S
You magically imbue a wooden object no larger than a 5 ft. cube, so it becomes hard as steel.


Repel Wood
Wood
10 ft.
1 action
S
Any wooden objects within 10 ft. of you are pushed back 2d4 x 10 ft.




7th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Greater Scrying
All
Self
1 action
VS
As Scrying, but you have advantage on your roll, and the spell lasts for up to 24 hours.


Statue
Earth
Self
1 action
S
You become a statue at will. While a statue, you have +10 AC but cannot take any action. You may end Statue at any time as a free action.


Delayed Blast Fireball
Fire
150 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 231


Decapitating Scarf
Metal
Self
1 action
V
Your next ranged attack deals an additional 1d4 damage for every Wu Jen level and has its crit range increased by one.


Transmute Metal to Wood
Wood
20 ft.
1 action
S
One piece of metal no larger than a 5 ft. cube within 20 ft. of you becomes wood for 1 minute per Wu Jen level.




8th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Earthquake
Earth
500 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 236


Incendiary Cloud
Fire
150 ft.
1 action
VS
PHB p. 253


Repel Metal or Stone
Metal
30 ft.
1 action
VS
Any metal or stone objects within 30 ft. of you are pushed back 1d4 x 10 ft.


Cloud Chariot
Water
5 ft.
1 action
VS
You and your allies can fly on a 15 x 15 ft. cloud, with a movement speed of 60 ft. The cloud lasts for 1 minute after which it bursts apart.


Horrid Wilting
Water
60 ft.
1 action
VS
In a 30 ft. radius, you deal 1d6 force damage for every Wu Jen level.


Control Plants
Wood
30 ft.
1 action
S
Take control of a plant creature for 1 round per Wu Jen level. If you take any action on your turn, you lose control of the creature. The creature is allowed a Wisdom saving throw to negate this effect.




9th level Spells


Name
Element
Range
Casting Time
Components
Effect


Power Word Kill
All
30 ft.
1 action
V
Instantly kills one creature with 100 or less Hit Points.


Imprisonment
Earth
30 ft.
1 action
VSM
PHB p. 252


Internal Fire
Fire
Touch
1 action
VSM (a bag rubies mixed with Sulphur, worth at least 5.000gp)
The target must make a Constitution saving throw or instantly die. If it succeeds in the saving throw, it takes 6d6 + 40 fire damage. Only castable on living Large or smaller creatures.


Iron Statue
Metal
Self
1 action
VS
You gain +20 AC but cannot move or take any action for 1d4+1 rounds. You cannot cancel the effect before it expires naturally.


Time Stop
Water
Self
1 action
V
You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. The effect ends if one of the actions you use during this period, or any effects that you create during this period, affects a creature other than you or an object being worn or carried by a creature other than you.


Leaf Escape
Wood
Self
1 action
S
You transform into a leaf, granting you a flying speed of 10 ft. While transformed you cannot be hit by any attacks or spells, except for area effect spells. If hit by fire, you instantly return to your original form and are reduced to 0 hit points.

PotatoGolem
2015-05-11, 12:56 AM
Just from a quick look, the spellcasting mechanic is really odd. It's way underpowered at low levels and crazy OP at high levels. Is there a reason you didn't use the Spellcasting table from the caster classes or a warlock-like progression? If it's not essential to your idea of the class, I'd make this more like bard or sorcerer in how it handles spells known and spells per day.

altfuldisch
2015-05-11, 01:54 AM
Just from a quick look, the spellcasting mechanic is really odd. It's way underpowered at low levels and crazy OP at high levels. Is there a reason you didn't use the Spellcasting table from the caster classes or a warlock-like progression? If it's not essential to your idea of the class, I'd make this more like bard or sorcerer in how it handles spells known and spells per day.

The spell progression itself needs to be adjusted, no doubt. Since spell casts arent dependent on spell slots, but can cast any spell, I'll reduce the ammount of 8th and 9th level spells a wu jen Can learn. He is supposed to be much different though, and is the only class (iirc) with a hit die of 1d4.

Flashy
2015-05-11, 04:06 AM
Just from a quick look, the spellcasting mechanic is really odd. It's way underpowered at low levels and crazy OP at high levels. Is there a reason you didn't use the Spellcasting table from the caster classes or a warlock-like progression? If it's not essential to your idea of the class, I'd make this more like bard or sorcerer in how it handles spells known and spells per day.

Not to mention the individual spell scaling! Most spells go from pretty garbage when you first get them to overwhelmingly powerful by the end. Fireball for example goes from an anemic 5d6 up to a crushing 20d6! 23d6 and it's a bonus action if you're in the fire specialty.

Even if nothing else is changed the spell scaling should absolutely be fixed to the traditional upcast system. Fix it to the warlock spell level progression and even then I'm dubious about how balanced running around with eight 9th level spell slots a long rest is going to be.

I really think you should just make it a traditional full caster though. As is it reads way more like a 3.5 class than one from 5e.

altfuldisch
2015-05-11, 04:49 AM
Not to mention the individual spell scaling! Most spells go from pretty garbage when you first get them to overwhelmingly powerful by the end. Fireball for example goes from an anemic 5d6 up to a crushing 20d6! 23d6 and it's a bonus action if you're in the fire specialty.

Even if nothing else is changed the spell scaling should absolutely be fixed to the traditional upcast system. Fix it to the warlock spell level progression and even then I'm dubious about how balanced running around with eight 9th level spell slots a long rest is going to be.

I really think you should just make it a traditional full caster though. As is it reads way more like a 3.5 class than one from 5e.

I understand your arguments. It needs some looking into. I did want the Wu Jen to be a powerful spellcaster, that works differently from other casters, but it shouldn't be ridiculously strong, obviously.
Through spell secrets, I wanted to differentiate the Wu Jen, but also make them want to cast lower level spells, and not just high level ones. They also have a hard time changing which spells they know. And they have extremely low hit points.
I also wanted the different elements to play very differently, which the spells accomplish pretty well I think. The archetypes might just be too similar though? Or do you think the difference in playstyle becomes apparent enough through the spells?

I'll have another look at balancing it, so the damage doesn't become too crazy, without turning them into a sorceror with a different name. There has to be a mechanical difference imo. I won't get time to do this untill later today though.

What are your thoughts on the theme though? The elements? The tattoos? The taboos? How it all fits together from a philosophical standpoint AND from a balance standpoint?

Flashy
2015-05-11, 05:08 AM
I wanted to differentiate the Wu Jen, but also make them want to cast lower level spells, and not just high level ones.

This is already a thing the other casters do, mostly because they've got low level spell slots and need to use them. I don't see how access to exclusively 9th level spell slots encourages a player to cast lower level spells.


...without turning them into a sorceror with a different name. There has to be a mechanical difference imo.

Could you explain? A sorcerer or maaaaybe wizard archetype is what this honestly feels like it should be to me. Make them choose the element when they pick the archetype and then just use a modified version of the archetype progression you've got. Give them the dragon sorcerer's modifier to damage fairly early and then use the elemental spells treated as cast from a slot one level higher thing as a capstone and that seems approximately in the same ballpark as the extant archetypes.


What are your thoughts on the theme though? The elements? The tattoos? The taboos? How it all fits together from a philosophical standpoint AND from a balance standpoint?

The flavor is fine. It's not really my speed by I like it well enough. Tattooing magic into yourself is a thoroughly solid concept. Not sure what the thematic purpose of the taboos is (nothing about an elemental scholar who tattoos themselves with the essence of magic really screams arbitrary self-restriction to me), though I'm deeply amused by the idea of a fire Wu-Jen who can't light a mundane fire in his day to day life.

AuraTwilight
2015-05-11, 03:36 PM
A caster shouldn't have the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell a day without an Epic Boon. This should also be a Sorcerer or Wizard archetype, honestly. There's not enough here to justify a full class that isn't problematic.

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-05-11, 07:28 PM
A caster shouldn't have the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell a day without an Epic Boon. This should also be a Sorcerer or Wizard archetype, honestly. There's not enough here to justify a full class that isn't problematic.

I definitely agree with aura here, I would suggest making it a sorcerer archetype or even a Warlock patron (draws its power from the immortals of the elements?).

As for the different elemental effects think of it in terms of what you think an elemental caster would feel like. Fire is the most straightforward an flashy with raw power and damage output, while the other elements tend to do less damage with a little bonus.
Electric damage spells (shocking grasp) have things that aid in hitting metal and can even limit an opponents reactions (kind of a micro stun).
Ice seems to be involved with impeding movement, whether it be speed or weapon attacks.
Acid has a lower damage but tends to stick around (melf's acid arrow for example).
Thunder has a flair for the dramatic an likes to bowl people over who listen too closely.
I could keep going but the horse has already gone full revnant on me, so lets take this on the run.

Sorry if i'm not the most helpful but hopefully it offers direction.

VoxRationis
2015-05-11, 09:20 PM
Why does wood element experience give you lightning resistance? Wood is not especially resistant to resistant—it's an insulator, but that doesn't mean it isn't harmed by electrical energy—and many wildfires are started by lightning.

Also, yeah, this really fits under the auspice of an archetype in the 5e design philosophy.

PotatoGolem
2015-05-12, 12:42 AM
On re-reading, the spells are also way out of wack for 5e. 5e doesn't have free scaling or spells that give you a straight bonus to attributes. Big flat AC bonuses are a huge no in bounded accuracy. I'm going to have to agree with Flashy, this feels WAY more like a 3.5 class than 5e. At this point, this may be too far out of balance to bring back without essentially scrapping it and starting over.