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Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 03:28 PM
Several people have listed puppets as weapon's used in anime. As part of the Anime Project i submit to you, the vultures of GiTPG the Puppet Mastery discipline

Closet_Skeleton
2007-04-19, 03:31 PM
Oh noes.

I'm scared of what the legacy weapon will be. I think legacy puppet strings might be more interesting than a legacy puppet.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 03:36 PM
i dont own weapons of legacy. Perhaps you would like to submit the legacy weapon?

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 03:48 PM
Puppet Mastery
Control is the true path of mastery in combat. Be it from a simple command to control over your enemies, the one who masters others is the master of self. The Puppet Mastery discipline teaches control, both subtle and forceful, over the battlefield. Whether controlling the muscles of your allies to strike harder or tugging on your foes arm as he swings, the Puppet Master sees the true heart of combat.

Puppet mastery focus’s on control, first and foremost. The throwing dagger, puppet, puppet strings, unarmed strike, and shuriken are the Puppet Masteries preferred weapons. Puppet Masteries discipline skill is use rope. All maneuvers are Supernatural unless otherwise noted. Swordsage's have access to this discipline and practicers of this discipline can not be of good alignment.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-04-19, 03:50 PM
i dont own weapons of legacy. Perhaps you would like to submit the legacy weapon?

I'll think about it. I don't like Weapons of Legacy because I find the idea of a weapon that costs you attack bonus bizare. I have a friend with a copy that I could borrow. I'd look into this thread at a later date.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 04:35 PM
First Pull
Puppet Mastery (Stance)
Level: 1st
Range: 30 feet
Duration: Stance

The subtle strings of the puppet leap from your feet, attaching to your friends feet, anchoring them to the ground.

When you place yourself into this stance your allies sense your determination and anchor themselves into the ground. All allies within 30 feet of you gain a +5 luck bonus to strength checks to beat a bull rush.

Augmentation through Insinuation
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: 2 rounds
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (harmless)

As you move your fingers in a complex and theatrical gesture, the muscles of a nearby friend bulge with energy and power.

As you initiate this maneuver, an ally within 25 feet gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks per 3 initiator level. If used against an opponent the initiator must succeed at a ranged touch attack

Tethered to Yourself
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level:1st
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One creature
Range: Medium
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: Reflex negates

As you make a cats cradle like motion with your hands, you grin with satisfaction as you see your enemies hands tied to their feet with string.

As you initiate this maneuver, you target a single opponent who can see you and weave several strings around his feet, quickly tying them to their arms. A foe so affected movement is reduced by 10 feet and suffers a -4 to attack rolls for a single turn.

March of Spiders
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: Full Round action
Range: Close
Duration: Instantiations

With a single whisper to the wind, hundreds of threads stream from your clothing, all blown to your target, before they harden into needle like points, viciously pricing your targets flesh.

You must have line of sight to the target for this maneuver to work. As you initiate this maneuver near invisible strings launch from you towards an opponent of your choice. These threads deal 1d4 points of piercing damage. As the initiator gains more power he may send out more threads towards either the original target or other targets with which you have line of sight. An initiator may create one additional thread per 3 initiator levels. To strike with a thread, the initiator must make a ranged touch attack.

Web of Bladed Bladed Strings
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 2nd
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Target:Self
Range: Personal
Duration: Immediate

As a foe strikes you your threads jump to guard you, becoming like razor grass in a tornado

As you initiate this maneuver, threads of wire curl around your assailant’s weapon, preventing some of the striking power and dealing damage back to him. This counter takes place before damage is dealt and can not drop any damage received below one hp. This counter blocks the first 1d6/4 initiator levels, and deals 1d4+initiator levels back to the attacker.

Pull of the Strings
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 2nd
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One creature+ one per 5 initiator levels
Range: Medium
Duration: 1 hour/3 initiator levels
Saving Throw: Will negates

Your mouth moves in a quick tirade yet no voice is heard. In the minds of your enemies, the lies they have told begin to gnaw at them like a beaver making a home

You must have line of sight to the use this maneuver. After initiating this maneuver, the target or targets must succeed a will save or become anxious with self doubt and fear. This causes all targets to suffer a -5 on all intimidate, diplomacy, and bluff checks, as well as take an additional -2 to armor class while being flat footed. This maneuver is a mind affecting ability.

2nd String
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 2nd
Initiation Action: Move Action
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous

As you move to strike your foe, you feint a weak spot, making your foe think you are vulnerable at a crucial moment, as your first blow lands and you ready a second strike, it is only then that your enemy learns that you have lead them into defeat.

As you initiate this maneuver, a foe within 5 feet of you may make a single attack of opportunity. Before the damage is rolled, you must make a single bluff check whose DC is equal to your opponents roll against your AC. If the bluff check succeeds, the opponent deals no damage and you may make a second attack. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

One Step Forward
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 3rd
Prerequisites: One Puppet mastery maneuver
Initiation Action: One swift action
Duration: Instantaneous

As your muscles jerk, your puppet lurch’s with an additional burst of speed and power.

After initiating this maneuver, your puppet makes a bull rush against any foe within its movement range. If you do not have a puppet this maneuver instead causes one of your allies within 30 feet of you to initiate a bull rush against a foe within 10 feet. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

Balance is Relative
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Prerequisites: One Puppet mastery strike, one puppet mastery stance
Level: 3rd
Initiation Action: Standard Action
Target: One creature
Range: Close
Duration: Instantaneous

As your foe strikes out against you, you make a single step back while thrusting out your weapon.

With this counter, before attack rolls are resolved, you make a single trip attempt as a creature three size categories larger then yourself, even if your weapon can not normally trip. If your foe is tripped you do not take damage and instead deal 4d4 points of damage to your foe. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

Terrain Grinder
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 3rd
Initiation Action: Full round action
Area: 30 feet
Duration: Instantaneous

With powerful rakes in the air, the ground around you shatters and splits with the sound of a doll’s laugh

With this maneuver, the Puppet master takes the first step in controlling the flow of combat. All terrain within 30 feet of the initiator becomes difficult terrain. Multiple uses of this maneuver instead deal 3d4 points of damage to all within 30 feet of the initiator.

3rd String
Puppet Mastery(Boost)
Prerequisits: 1st string, 2nd string
Level: 3rd
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: 24 hours

With a single twang on a puppet string, your allies are given new hope for the coming day

This maneuver must be used at dawn or dusk, and if used at any other time during the day results in failure. All allies within hearing distance when this maneuver is initiated gain an additional 10 hit points and heal ability damage at twice its normal rate.

Mischief Runs Rampant
Puppet Mastery(Counter)
Level: 3rd
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Target: You
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous

Threads of doubt run along your foes, giving them reason to fear even their closest friend

This maneuver causes a single foe who is about to strike you to reconsider his actions, instead placing doubt in his mind over his allies and friends. After initiating this maneuver you must make a single bluff check (DC 30). If this check succeeds the opponent instead attacks a friendly target in range. If there are no friendly targets in range, this maneuver fails.

Puppet Replacement
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 4th
Prerequisites: Any two Puppet Mastery Counters
Initiation Action: Immediate Action
Target: Self
Range: Personal
Duration: Instantaneous

Before the incoming attack lands you pull tightly on the strings of your puppet, replacing yourself with the puppet

One of the few maneuvers that require a puppet, Puppet Replacement is taken by only true adherents to the discipline. Before an attack you may replace yourself with your puppet, who takes the damage instead of you.

Path of String
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Prerequisites: Any three Puppet Mastery maneuvers
Level: 4th
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One creature
Range: Long
Duration: 5 turns
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates

At your direction, you pull the threads of fate for a single character and force him to bend to one knee

After you initiate this maneuver, a single target must succeed on a fortitude check or be compelled to follow the suggestions of the Puppet Master. This effect is identical to the suggestion spell, except as noted above, and lasts for 5 rounds.

4th String
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Prerequisites: One Puppet Mastery maneuvers, one Puppet Mastery stance
Level: 4th level
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One Creature
Range: Touch
Duration: Instinatianious
Saving Throw: Will negates

With the end of this maneuver, you unlock the second most important aspect of battle, time

After this maneuver is initiated, you gesture at your target in a rude manner, shocking him with your contempt and hatred. If the target fails his will save he is dazed for one round.

5th String
Puppet Mastery (Stance)
Prerequistes: One Puppet Mastery stance
Level: 5th Level
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: Stance

As you spread your legs and open a single palm, the fates design for you spills into you and your allies mind, granting them insight into coming battles

This stance brings the strings of fate into the minds of you and all allies within 30 feet of you, granting each a +5 insight bonus to damage, attack rolls, and armor class. Along with these bonus’s each ally gains an additional 5 hit points/4 initiator levels.

Water Flows Freely
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 5th level
Initiation Action: One full round action
Target: One creature
Range: Close
Duration: Instantaneous

With concentration, the sound of water rush’s into your head washing away doubt and forcing your next blow to stretch forth like the rolling river

After this maneuver is initiated, your next attack bends becomes a ranged attack and deals an additional 2d4 points/per 3 initiator levels. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

March of the Hollow Feet
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 6th level
Prerequisites: Three Puppet Mastery maneuvers
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One ally
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex for half

With a single brush on the shoulder, you whisper words of encouragement to your friend, knowing the support was needed

This maneuver can only be initiated on a friendly target who has received damage the turn this maneuver is initiated. The target receives 10 hit points, and becomes immune to critical hits for three turns. After the immunity ends, the target is winded for 1 minute.

Shattered Doll
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 6th level
Initiation Action: One immediate action
Target: One Ally
Range: Close
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: See text

As you move in the way of an incoming attack, you initiate a quick maneuver, pushing your friend out of the way, just in time to negate the brunt of the attack

After initiating this maneuver, you move up to 30 feet and move a single ally within range 5 feet before damage is dealt. Your ally must succeed a reflex save, or take full damage from the attack. Should the save succeed the target takes only a quarter of the damage, rounded up, dealt. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

Sixth String
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 6th level
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One creature
Duration: 10 rounds
Saving Throw: Will negates

With a complex jab at your opponents head, you strike a powerful pressure point, deadening his hearing, slackening his jaw and causing him to stumble as if drunk

You must succeed a successful attack on an opponent before initiating this maneuver. If the enemy fails his will save, he is deafened and blinded for 10 rounds. At the end of those 10 rounds the target must make another will save or be stunned for 5 rounds. This maneuver is an extraordinary ability

7th String
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 7th level
Prerequisites: 5th and 6th string maneuvers
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: 1 hour/2 initiator level

You make a cats cradle in your hands, breathing gently upon them making a haunting tune that scares your allies into wakefulness

While not most polite of maneuvers, once initiated the damage is done. All allies in 40 feet who hear the tune find it stuck in their head, keeping them awake. Although this keeps your allies up when they should be resting they suffer no ill effects such as fatigue. Spell casters still require 8 hours of light activity to regain spells.

Final Dance
Puppet Mastery
Level: 8th level
Initiation Action: One standard action
Target: Self
Duration: One hour
Saving Throw: Will negates

Your body shakes with untapped delight, and the rushing torrent of blood fills your ears. Your begin to dance as a marionette, limp but purposeful, and all the world around you unfolds into a beautiful flower for your eyes only

After intiating this maneuver, your body becomes limp like a rag doll and you take on the appearance of a cold emotionless puppet. While in this form you can not talk or take actions that require verbal or somatic components. You are immune to stunning effects, and extra damage from critical hits. Along with these benefits, your movement speed is increased to 60 feet as you use both your hands and feet to move towards your foes. Your hands become natural weapons that deal 2d6 points of damage and are magical with your alignment descriptor. After an hours time you must make a will save or suffer 1d12 points of wisdom damage.

8th String
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 8th level
Prerequisites: 7th String
Initiation Action: One immediate action
Target: See Text
Range: Long
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Save

You have learned to redirect the powers other hold over the mind back to their original location.

A spell requiring a will save must be cast before this maneuver may be initiated. After this maneuver is initiated you may counter a spell that required a will save and direct it back to its original source. The save must have been failed by the recipient.

Final String
Puppet Mastery (Strike)
Level: 9th level
Prerequisites: 5 Puppet Mastery maneuvers
Initiation Action: See text
Target: See text
Range: Long
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates

The pinnacle of the Puppet Masters art and the final maneuver of the Puppet Mastery discipline. With several hand gestures ending with you holding up both hands, one pinky finger held down, all those around you feel your control wrest over the world around you, breaking stone into jagged spikes and opening gaps in a large area.

This is the pinnacle of the Puppet masters form, showing his full control of the land around him, and thus the tactics of battle. After this maneuver is initiated, all land around the puppet master, up to 400 feet, cracks and reforms itself. The puppet master must concentrate on the changes, and affects 10 feet per round until it reach’s 400 feet. The initiator can decide how the land changes, affecting height, consistency of soil or stone, texture, and existing vegetation. This ability can not create new planets but can affect the growth of existing plants. All standing on the area changed suffer 10d6 points of damage and mist make a fortitude save or be thrown back 20 feet from their original position. If a target can not be thrown back, due to a wall or cliff, he instead suffers another 3d6 points of damage

I_Got_This_Name
2007-04-19, 07:20 PM
Too supernatural; I'd prefer a discipline that has at least some maneuvers that make sense as extraordinary.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 07:38 PM
Puppet Craft DC's
Table 1-1
{table]Puppet Grade|Craft DC
Poor|10
Average|15
Good|20
Expert|30
Magic|40[/table]

prices, attacks, and special's are normal statistic's for a pre-made puppet

Pre-Made Puppet Costs and Stats
Table 1-2
{table]Puppet Grade|Attack|Special|Movement Speed|AC|Size|Cost
Poor|Bite 1d4|-|15 feet|5|S|200 gp
Average|Bite 1d4, 2 claws 1d6|-|30 feet|10|M|500 gp
Good|Bite 1d4, 2 claws 1d6|Ability to hold weapons|30 feet|15|M|1,500
Expert|Bite 1d4, 2 claws 1d6|Ability to hold weapons, fly 20(poor)|35 feet|20|L|3,000 gp
Magical|Bite 1d6, 2 claws 1d8|Ability to hold weapon, single 1-3 level spell|50 feet|20|M|5,000 gp[/table]

Custom Puppet Cost
Table 1-3
{table]Grade|Attack|Special|Spells|Movement Speed|Size[/table]

Puppet
This item comes in varying forms, styles, and descriptions, with the only feature all puppets are a set of 10 strings 30 feet in length. Puppet powers and abilities vary depending on price and craftsmanship, from the cheap (normally with a single bite and claw attack) to the extravagate (with their own unique and special powers that vary as much as the puppets themselves). All puppets have a form of propulsion, whether it is by foot locomotion or with wings, though unique forms of movement such as levitation are rare and expensive.
Puppets can be bought pre-built, and their abilities range according to price. It is possible to create a puppet or have a puppet created for you. To create a puppet a crafter must succeed a craft (wood work) or craft (metal work) check whose DC is equal to (15 + the grade of the puppet being made). Special puppets movement speed, special abilities, type and number of attacks are determined at creation by the creator. Prices vary on these abilities. Any spell added has the base DC of the caster who made the puppet.
A puppet uses the base attack bonus of its operate with a -2 penalty to attack rolls due to the awkward movements of the strings to the relation’s of the puppet. While a puppet is in use, the operator loses his dexterity bonus to his AC. A puppets AC is equal to its grade + its operator’s dexterity modifier – its size modifier.

Puppeteer
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Puppet), Improved Initiative
Benefits: With this feat, a person with the exotic weapon proficiency(Puppet) do not suffer a -2 to attack rolls and lose their dexterity bonus while operating a puppet. Along with these benefits, a person with this feat gains a +10 circumstance modifier to all attempts to create puppets. A person with this feat my move while operating a puppet
Normal: A person with this feat loses their AC bonus from their dexterity, and suffers a -2 penalty on attack roles made with a puppet due to their odd control of the weapon, as well as being able to move while operating a puppet.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 07:46 PM
i am basing this slightly on jutsu and other magical means, so i can understand that these look magical, there are more comming, wokring slowly and surely. 2nd level is done and up

Innis Cabal
2007-04-19, 10:58 PM
Prerequisits
Skills: Bluff 15 ranks
Feats:Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Puppet), Puppeteer
Martial Maneuvers: 5 Puppet Mastery Maneuvers, 2 Puppet Mastery Stances

{table]Level|B.A.B|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+1|+0|+0|+2|March of Hollow Feats
2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3|Master Crafter
3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Avatarist
4th|+4|+1|+1|+3|Army of the Hollow
5th|+5|+2|+2|+4|One with the Thread[/table]

Innis Cabal
2007-04-20, 11:09 PM
Legacy Weapon

Ok i have no idea what they are but i will try to make one for Puppet Mastery since all of the legacy weapons in the ToB are blades of some sort

Empty Vessel of 1,000 Strings

This unique puppet appears as a human male with blood red skin and visiable white veins etched upon his "flesh". Both eyes are made of emeralds crafted to appear identical to a hawks eye. Both hands seem overly large, with vicious talons made of glinting cold iron, and a clear liquid drips from their tips. The legs of the puppet bend backwards, like a wolf, and its feet are simple blade's covered in rust and dirt.

Haruspex
2007-04-21, 02:33 AM
I'll have a crack at the legacy puppet, basing it off the descriptions of the other legacy weapons. I don't own the book, so someone who is versed in their use is welcome to set me straight.

Also, as Innis Cabal adds material, this will have to be updated accordingly. If the the fluff I put in contradicts the upcoming material, I will gladly change it.

Empty Vessel of A Thousand Strings

The Empty Vessel of A Thousand Strings (henceforth Empty Vessel) is a unique puppet that appears as a human male with blood red skin and visible white veins etched upon his "flesh". Both eyes are made of emeralds crafted to appear identical to a hawks eye. Both hands seem overly large, with vicious talons made of glinting cold iron, and a clear liquid drips from their tips. The legs of the puppet bend backwards, like a wolf, and its feet are simple blades covered in rust and dirt.

Nonlegacy Game Statistics: Magical puppet; Cost 6,000 gp; Weight 10 lb. Empty Vessel's attacks are: bite 1d6, 2 cold iron claws 1d8, and 2 foot blades 1d6.

Omen: When combat is joined, Empty Vessel's talons twitch slightly of it's own volition.

History

Empty Vessel is one of the better-known puppets crafted by the legendary puppet master (I'll leave this to the OP, possibly the founder of the Puppet Mastery discipline). Outside of the puppet master community, Empty Vessel has a sinister reputation as a cursed object and is rumored to have murdered its crafter soon after it was made. Whatever the truth of the matter, it is known to be a potent weapon and as such is of interest to many people. The eerie realism of the puppet, when compared to other puppets of the same kind, begs the question of what role its creator intended the puppet to fill. (DC 15)

The puppet master who crafted Empty Vessel was a master of the art, known far and wide for his skill at making puppets and his ability to use them in battle. In his twilight years he began work on his masterpiece, the Empty Vessel of A Thousand Strings. The puppet master spent months on end going to and fro, buying, stealing, and trading for various components to use in his work. When work finally commenced, he had inadvertently drawn the attention of many of his contemporaries. (DC 18; Master of Puppets)

Once work began, the puppet master was never seen outside his workshop. When he was finally done, after three years or so, he was a changed man. He was skeletally thin and his skin was pale with red veins visible on his neck and arms. This was in contrast to his sinister puppet, which unnerved all who saw it. His first order of business was to issue a challenge to anyone who was willing to fight. Anyone who could defeat him would win all his possessions, including his extensive research and rare magical puppets. Such a challenge was quickly answered, but no one could best the puppet master. Empty Vessel was undefeatable in combat, tearing through enemy puppets with ease. (DC 25; By Strings Bound)

After he defeated most of his rivals, the puppet master decided to move away from his home and travel the land. After he did so, his rivals broke into his workshop to see what they could learn. To their dismay what they found were the twisted remains of a hundred broken puppets scattered across the room. Most of his tools were similarly damaged or destroyed. His journals, tucked away in a secret compartment, were filled with endless ramblings written in two distinct styles of handwriting. (DC 31; A Thousand Strings)

Legacy Rituals

Three rituals are required to unlock all the abilities of Empty Vessel.

Master Of Puppets: You must spend one uninterrupted month doing nothing but crafting puppets. You may still eat, drink, and sleep, but all activity other than this must be spent crafting puppets. Cost: 2,000 gp. Feat Granted: Least Legacy (Empty Vessel).

By Strings Bound:You must defeat one creature in personal combat armed only with a puppet. The creature's Challenge Rating must be equal to or greater than your character level. Cost: 12,000 gp. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy (Empty Vessel).

A Thousand Strings: You have to find the puppet master's workshop and spend a week within sifting through the remains of his work. What or who you discover there is up to the DM. Cost: 40,000 gp. Feat Granted: Greater Legacy (Empty Vessel).

Wielder Requirements

Any student of the Puppet Mastery discipline would benefit from wielding Empty Vessel.

Empty Vessel Wielder Requirements

Bluff 8 ranks, Puppeteer

At least 3 martial maneuvers from the Puppet Mastery discipline.

Legacy Item Abilities

All the following are legacy item abilities of Empty Vessel. I'm intentionally leaving most of these blank, to accommodate further developments.

Puppet Dance (Su):At 5th level and higher, while wielding Empty Vessel, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC.


Table 3-2: Empty Vessel
----- Personal Costs -----
Wielder Attack Save Hit Point Abilities
Level Penalty Penalty Loss
5th -- -- -- Puppet Dance
6th -- -- 4 --
7th -- -- -- --
8th -- -1 -- --
9th -1 -- 2 --
10th -- -- -- --
11th -- -- -- --
12th -- -- 2 --
13th -- -- -- --
14th -2 -- -- --
15th -- -- 2 --
16th -- -2 -- --
17th -- -- -- --
18th -- -3 2 --
19th -- -- 2 --
20th -- -- 2 --

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 12:45 PM
190 views and no real deconstruction? Is it that bad?

Winged One
2007-04-29, 01:19 PM
The jig's up, Innis. :smile:

Okay, seriously though, this discipline needs an associated ToB class(I'd reccomend Swordsage, since they get most of the disciplines with blatently supernatural maneuvers besides Devoted Spirit). Boosts are always swift actions, and it's all right for a maneuver to be neither a strike, a boost, nor a counter. Supernatural maneuvers need to be noted as such.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 02:18 PM
noted and fixed for the most part, will go back and fix the few that are extrodinary wil be updated. Also swordsage is the only one that can take this discipline...since i dont see many crusader's or warblades having a practical application for the discipline. And ya...i know they dont have to be one of the three but this is my first attempt and wanted to keep to some form of comfort...

Winged One
2007-04-29, 02:20 PM
Oh, by the way, a lot of these should be different types. I see a lot of boosts that should be strikes, for example.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:05 PM
8 is finally up and there is an end to the path of the puppet master. Ex are noted.

What boosts do you think should be strikes Winged One?

Winged One
2007-04-29, 08:20 PM
Basicly, all of the ones that affect an enemy rather than the initiator. Sombody that's better at balancing than I am needs to look this over, by the way.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:23 PM
ya...i have no idea if it is balanced or not, some seem really weak while others seem very powerful....not that they cant be moved around of course.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-04-29, 08:26 PM
Yay for kankourou! Yay for fanboys! Yay awesome puppet killingness! w00t!


whew. thank god that's out of my system.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:33 PM
what do ya think about it? Other then you obviously seem to like the idea....it has over 200 views....i am going to take that to mean it is perfect in every way....

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-04-29, 08:38 PM
Well, reading the actual thing would be a good idea.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:39 PM
ya....that would help i think

jindra34
2007-04-29, 08:40 PM
are the views unique cause otherwise i probably cotributed 20 without understanding any of this... sorry

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:42 PM
no idea really...just wondering why everyone is looking but not saying anything even if its negative. You need positive and negative comments to make something better after all

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-04-29, 08:43 PM
hm... Possibly some more things on actually controlling the puppet? At the moment, i only see one maneuver, stance thingy that actually directly involves the puppet.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-29, 08:57 PM
i wanted to stay away from focus on the weapons, since the others have feats that do that...i am working on those now

elliott20
2007-04-30, 02:32 PM
I wonder how stuff like the rope use skill figures into this style...

Plus, this just gave me an idea for a martial art novel character. awesome.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-30, 03:02 PM
glad i can be of use i guess? Who balanced is it....thats all i need to know...then this thing can die off and i can be happy my first attempt at a discipline was good and i can move on to the ranged project....and use rope would be more be a better skill for this wouldnt it?

elliott20
2007-04-30, 03:39 PM
well, in a way it's not really because puppeteering and rope use are very different things. I was just musing outloud.

but my main issue with this discipline is that it doesn't build off of a skill, unlike the other disciplines. I'm certainly not crapping on it since it seems fairly balanced from what I can see. But it certainly does defy the normal conventions of discipline design.

I'm also somewhat surprised at the lack of opponent manipulation maneuvers. A lot of these help boost your party stats and that's cool. but what if I want to use this to say, animate a dead body and use it to fight off my foes? (both to demoralize them and by getting me a body shield)

Or what if even better, I want to force one of my opponents to start attacking his friends and thereby disrupt and distract my foes?

While a small number of maneuvers can be seen as opponent manipulation, very little goes in the way of action control.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-30, 04:10 PM
i thought that might be slightly over powered, though now that it has been mentioned i will add a few, and ya its not built around the normal convention and also...this is my first attempt. I will be working on three ranged disciplines in the comming weeks, and two base class's tonight, that will adher closer to normal disciplines.

Innis Cabal
2007-11-22, 10:21 PM
*bump in preperation for further work*

Fako
2007-11-23, 07:32 AM
I like it. Not something I'd use, but it fits the flavor, and is an addition to ToB that I would allow... But there's a few things I feel the need to question...


First Pull
Puppet Mastery (Stance)
Level: 1st
Range: 30 feet
Duration: Stance

The subtle strings of the puppet leap from your feet, attaching to your friends feet, anchoring them to the ground.

When you place yourself into this stance your allies sense your determination and anchor themselves into the ground. All allies within 30 feet of you gain a +5 luck bonus to strength checks to beat a bull rush.

+5 at level one? And it only applies towards bull rush? I personally think it should be changed to +1 per 4 or 5 initiator levels, and have it apply to Bull Rush and Trip... Basically reduce the power but make it more useful...


Augmentation through Insinuation
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: 2 rounds
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (harmless)

As you move your fingers in a complex and theatrical gesture, the muscles of a nearby friend bulge with energy and power.

As you initiate this maneuver, an ally within 25 feet gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks per 3 initiator level. If used against an opponent the initiator must succeed at a ranged touch attack.

You can use this against an opponent, right? Why would you do this exactly? Personally, I'd either remove the option to target opponents, or make it so that they instead take a penalty, as they have two rolls to avoid the maneuver (your ranged touch attack, followed by reflex).


Web of Bladed Bladed Strings
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 2nd
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Target:Self
Range: Personal
Duration: Immediate

As a foe strikes you your threads jump to guard you, becoming like razor grass in a tornado

As you initiate this maneuver, threads of wire curl around your assailant’s weapon, preventing some of the striking power and dealing damage back to him. This counter takes place before damage is dealt and can not drop any damage received below one hp. This counter blocks the first 1d6/4 initiator levels, and deals 1d4+initiator levels back to the attacker.

There's one too many instances of "bladed" in the title, and the wording of this counter is...awkward. I'd change the last line to "Roll 1d6 for every 4 initiator levels you possess and reduce the damage you take by the result. In addition, the opponent that struck you takes damage equal to 1d4 + your initiator level." It's a longer winded way of saying the same thing, but it's a bit easier to understand...


5th String
Puppet Mastery (Stance)
Prerequistes: One Puppet Mastery stance
Level: 5th Level
Initiation Action: One swift action
Range: Close
Duration: Stance

As you spread your legs and open a single palm, the fates design for you spills into you and your allies mind, granting them insight into coming battles

This stance brings the strings of fate into the minds of you and all allies within 30 feet of you, granting each a +5 insight bonus to damage, attack rolls, and armor class. Along with these bonus’s each ally gains an additional 5 hit points/4 initiator levels.

+5 to damage, attacks, and AC at level 9? Wow. It's a stance? Wow...

As written, this stance is, simply, overpowered. I'd change it to +1 to AC, attacks, and damge for every 4 initiator levels... that'd put it back in the same vein of power as other stances...


March of the Hollow Feet
Puppet Mastery (Boost)
Level: 6th level
Prerequisites: Three Puppet Mastery maneuvers
Initiation Action: One swift action
Target: One ally
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex for half

With a single brush on the shoulder, you whisper words of encouragement to your friend, knowing the support was needed

This maneuver can only be initiated on a friendly target who has received damage the turn this maneuver is initiated. The target receives 10 hit points, and becomes immune to critical hits for three turns. After the immunity ends, the target is winded for 1 minute.

I've never heard of the Winded condition. Is it the same as Fatigued? If not, what are the penalties associated with it?


8th String
Puppet Mastery (Counter)
Level: 8th level
Prerequisites: 7th String
Initiation Action: One immediate action
Target: See Text
Range: Long
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Save

You have learned to redirect the powers other hold over the mind back to their original location.

A spell requiring a will save must be cast before this maneuver may be initiated. After this maneuver is initiated you may counter a spell that required a will save and direct it back to its original source. The save must have been failed by the recipient.

This is a cool counter, but has some very bizarre wording...I'd try this:

"This counter can only initiated after an ally in range has failed a Will Save to resist a spell. Your ally automatically succeeds on his Will Save, and the caster must make a Will Save at the original DC or be affected by his own spell."

Not sure if that's any better though...

---

The prerequisites of the "Strings" maneuver tree are a bit odd, as are some others (I've only ever seen prerequisites of having a few of the disciplines' maneuvers before), but they make sense.

As I said above, I like it. I look forward to the new work. Can I request the associated skill and favored weapons for the discipline? Also, how will the discipline be acquired? Will you just swap it out for another, or is there a feat you can take to gain access?

Guyr Adamantine
2007-11-23, 09:43 AM
O.K., I'll say it once.
This. Is cool. It is cool but need serious rehauling.

First, you need to put all your material on the OP. You won't get answers if your front post look that way. You need original fluff too. Even if people will look at it last, it looks lot more professional. Then, you need to format all this in the commonly used one (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905351), for that the ToB enthusiasts are used to it and will react more friendly to the idea.

Second, for some nifty puppet rules, you should look at the Naruto d20 project on the web. They use the d20 Modern rules for wealth, but allow great costumisation.(I must say I wouldn't insert puppets as weapons myself, as the simple subject of the puppeteer is cool enough to create a martial school!)

StickMan
2007-11-23, 10:53 AM
O.K., I'll say it once.
This. Is cool. It is cool but need serious rehauling.

First, you need to put all your material on the OP. You won't get answers if your front post look that way. You need original fluff too. Even if people will look at it last, it looks lot more professional. Then, you need to format all this in the commonly used one (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905351), for that the ToB enthusiasts are used to it and will react more friendly to the idea.

Second, for some nifty puppet rules, you should look at the Naruto d20 project on the web. They use the d20 Modern rules for wealth, but allow great costumisation.(I must say I wouldn't insert puppets as weapons myself, as the simple subject of the puppeteer is cool enough to create a martial school!)

I'm going to agree with Guyr on all points this tread is hard to follow I don't like having to dig through it all to get to things. Also Naruto D20 does has a good puppet system you many want to look at.

Innis Cabal
2007-11-23, 11:01 PM
thank you for all the feed back, im working on it inbetween a slew of other things. CHeck back periodically and i hope the changes made are to your expectations