Soulbow - Ranger archetype (PEACH)

[meltodowno]

So, here's my 3rd foray into homebrew (others available in my sig), and my next piece on putting in a Psionics option for each class into 5th ed. Critique is welcome but please keep it constructive. Thanks in advance!


Soulbow

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120418231141/starwars/images/f/f9/BoSbow.jpg


Many rangers are masters of ranged warfare, but a Soulbow truly puts their heart and soul into their perfection of ranged combat. Soulbows learn to focus their own psionic abilities into forging fragments of their mind into ammunition - thoughts given form, they allow a Soulbow to move and fight with a freedom few other archers enjoy.

Mind Arrow
A 3rd level Soulbow you can, as part of an attack, create a semi-solid arrow composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. This ammunition disappears one round after it is conjured. The damage of the the arrow is identical to that of the bow firing it, but always counts as Magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance. At level 11, you add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to damage made with these arrows.

Close combat shot
As a soulbow reaches level 7, it's ability to swiftly to swiftly conjure arrows confers several additional advantages. Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls. Additionally, when a hostile creature’s movement an opportunity attack from you, you can use you bow to make the opportunity attack.

Ricochet
At level 11, the Soulbows’ psychic prowess grows, and he can control his arrows flight. The Soulbow focuses his mind and sends an arrow flying out, ricocheting through opponents and weaving into those behind them. Instead of an Attack Action, the Soulbow may make a ranged attack against a number of hostile creatures up to his Ranger level within a 30ft cone emanating from his position. You make a separate attack roll for each target, and each creature can only be targeted once per Attack Action.

Phase Arrow
A 15th level Soulbow's controls it's arrows flight, weaving around obstacles and passing harmlessly through terrain. The Soulbow ignores anything less than 100 percent concealment when making attacks. Additionally once per short rest a Soulbow can Overcharge his attacks for a single Attack action. Overcharged attacks ignore any worn or natural armor of the creatures they hit.

[Wartex1]

Mind Arrow adding proficiency bonus to damage might be a bit overpowered, and are free actions a thing anymore? I can't remember. You could make it as part of your move action like drawing a weapon.

Also, a third attack might be a bit too much as well. That makes it severely outdamage the Hunter archetype.

Let's assume a standard longbow, no feats or other modifiers (which heavily increase this damage even more).

3d8+15 (from DEX) + 6 (Proficiency) for this. AVG is 34.5

2d8 + 1d8 (from Colossus Slayer) + 15 (DEX) for hunter. Not that much without magic items or feats. AVG is 28.5. However, add feats and you get...

3d8+15 (from DEX) + 6 (Proficiency) + 30 (Sharpshooter) + 9 (+3 weapon) + 3d6 (Hunter's Mark) AVG of 84.

2d8 + 1d8 (from Colossus Slayer) + 15 (DEX) + 20 (Sharpshooter) + 6 (+3 weapon) + 2d6 (Hunter's Mark) AVG of 60.5.

That's a big difference.

[SonsOfSauron]

Mind Arrow adding proficiency bonus to damage might be a bit overpowered, and are free actions a thing anymore? I can't remember. You could make it as part of your move action like drawing a weapon.

Also, a third attack might be a bit too much as well. That makes it severely outdamage the Hunter archetype.

Let's assume a standard longbow, no feats or other modifiers (which heavily increase this damage even more).

3d8+15 (from DEX) + 6 (Proficiency) for this. AVG is 34.5

2d8 + 1d8 (from Colossus Slayer) + 15 (DEX) for hunter. Not that much without magic items or feats. AVG is 28.5. However, add feats and you get...

3d8+15 (from DEX) + 12 (Proficiency) + 30 (Sharpshooter) + 9 (+3 weapon) + 3d6 (Hunter's Mark) AVG of 90.

2d8 + 1d8 (from Colossus Slayer) + 10 (DEX) + 20 (Sharpshooter) + 6 (+3 weapon) + 2d6 (Hunter's Mark) AVG of 55.5.

That's a big difference.

The disparity is even worse, since proficiency is +4 at 11th level, and the Hunter is only getting +10 from dex (only two attacks).


Mind Arrow
At 3rd level Soulbow you can, as a free action, create a semi-solid arrow composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. This ammunition disappears one round after it is conjured. The damage of the the arrow is identical to that of the bow firing it, but always counts as Magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance. At level 11, you add your proficiency bonus to damage made with these arrows.
I think getting magic ranged weapon at 3rd level for the Ranger is probably a bit much. The Eldritch Knight can, but they already have access to cantrips, plus they don't have ways to boost the damage of their attacks like the Ranger does. Plus I agree with the sentiment that +Prof to damage for free is quite dangerous, especially giving them a third attack.


Close combat shot
As a soulbow reaches level 7, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls. Additionally, when a hostile creature’s movement an opportunity attack from you, you can use you bow to make the opportunity attack.
This is probably fine, maybe adding some extra flavor to really convey why it's a psionic ability and not just being good with bows.


Extra Attack
At level 11, the Soulbows’ martial prowess grows. He now gains a third attack when he makes an attack action.
Not a fan of dipping into this design space outside of fighter to be honest.


Phase Arrow
A 15th level Soulbow ignores anything less than 100 percent concealment when making attacks. Additionally once per short rest a Soulbow can overcharge his attacks for a single Attack action. Overcharged attacks ignore any worn or natural armour of the creatures they hit.
This is a cool ability, I'm a fan of exploring this design space. 1/short rest shouldn't be too bad.


I think a lot of the psionic feel isn't really there. Maybe an ability to attempt to redirect a missed attack? (I love the idea of an arrow taking an unexpected left turn, or BEND THE BULLET)

[meltodowno]

Free actions aren't their own specific section anymore, true, they are covered under "other activity on your turn", and I feel it's the simplest shorthand. I'll keep the rules but remove the shorthand for clarity.

As to the single target damage, you are correct, they deal higher single target damage by design, but I feel it's important to highlight not just what it can do, but what it can't.

---------------------------
But then lets have a look at volley and AoE

Soulbows DPS stays the same.

Volley (11 targets assuming standard grid formation and partial squares not counting) 11d8 + 55(dex) + 110(sharpshooter) + 33 (+3 Weapon) : Avg 247.5

So:
Single target Soulbow can deal 33% higher damage.
Multi-target Hunter can deal 300% higher damage.

I'd say the trade off is pretty fair?
I added in the prof to damage as I was concerned about the dps been underwhelming without it. If I receive more feedback that it's too much, I'll happily re-assess, but given the archetypes lack of AoE, it'd only be a minor nerf (perhaps half efficiency)

[Wartex1]

When are you going to have that many targets clustered into one area? That's not going to happen very much.

[meltodowno]

Ok,

Firstly: this is mechanics. I can only assess mechanics, not what a GM can/will throw at you in a specific game.

Secondly: it only requires 4 hostile creatures for the hunter to pull ahead.

Thirdly: Getting back to my first point, games I have been in regularly have packs of mobs 4+ in size. The game I am in with yourself has had several packs of 4+ enemies. The other 5th ed game I am in on the boards, the first combat had 28 enemies, not including medium size mounts for goblins. The hunter had a field day with damage.

My experience with fifth ed? Multi enemy combats are frequent.

[SonsOfSauron]

I think instead of straight-up improving the DPS, innovating *how* the damage is dealt might be a better alternative.

What if the Soulbow could attack the minds of multiple foes with an arrow, literally attacking their mental connection? What if they could use minor telekinesis to improve their AC against ranged attacks, or use it to give them the ability to redirect their arrows, or shoot around corners?

Attacking in a straight line could be really cool, or a cone - these're ways to differentiate between the Hunter's AoEs, and feel pretty magicy in execution.

[meltodowno]

Giving random AC boosts in a bound accuracy system is terrible design, as it's hard to model to extra effects.

It doesn't get the fourth attack of a fighter, nor action surge. It's dps is marginally higher than a bow fighter, until the fourth attack comes in.

I'm open to changing it, but I don't want it to just be a reflavoured hunter. How about instead of the third attack/volley it got a cone attack - encouraging them to get up close, giving them an AoE, and flavour as a psychic shockwave (but mechanically they just get an attack vs everyone in the cone ?)

Edit: it looked like you just editted in the same idea :smalltongue:

[Wartex1]

Maybe some sort of ricochet arrow effect instead of straight single-target DPR? That or some stunning effect.

[SonsOfSauron]

Giving random AC boosts in a bound accuracy system is terrible design, as it's hard to model to extra effects.
I don't think +1 AC against ranged attacks would be egregious, and it can fit the flavor of having a psionic shield or alacrity.


It doesn't get the fourth attack of a fighter, nor action surge. It's dps is marginally higher than a bow fighter, until the fourth attack comes in.
That's fair, I'm just leery* about borrowing the most unique aspects of certain classes, though this isn't terribly offensive. I'd like to perhaps see it more flavored to psionics though.
*quietly hides Arcane Strike feature of swordmage under the bed


I'm open to changing it, but I don't want it to just be a reflavoured hunter. How about instead of the third attack/volley it got a cone attack - encouraging them to get up close, giving them an AoE, and flavour as a psychic shockwave (but mechanically they just get an attack vs everyone in the cone ?)

Edit: it looked like you just editted in the same idea :smalltongue:
:smalltongue:

Agreed, I'd rather this explore things the hunter can't do. The cone could be flaavored as splitting the psionic arrow into dozens or hundreds of shards as they launch it forward.

[meltodowno]

Revised the ability. Flavored it as sending an arrow weaving through the adversaries controlled by the soulbows mind.

Way I see it working is like in guardians of the galaxy when (characters name escapes me) the guy uses the whistling arrow and takes out a squadron of guys in a second.

[SonsOfSauron]

Revised the ability. Flavored it as sending an arrow weaving through the adversaries controlled by the soulbows mind.

Way I see it working is like in guardians of the galaxy when (characters name escapes me) the guy uses the whistling arrow and takes out a squadron of guys in a second.

Very nice, I like it! Though I think it should stick to one of the already-defined cones (15 or 30, probably 30). If we're worried about the balance, we could add a rider like "You make an attack against each creature in the area, up to a maximum number of attacks equal to your Ranger level." That way it scales as you get more masterful, and it doesn't blow the hunter out of the water immediately w.r.t. a much larger range.

[Wartex1]

Revised the ability. Flavored it as sending an arrow weaving through the adversaries controlled by the soulbows mind.

Way I see it working is like in guardians of the galaxy when (characters name escapes me) the guy uses the whistling arrow and takes out a squadron of guys in a second.

*coughYonducough*

Though he's an actual archer in the comics.

[Amnoriath]

Ok,

Secondly: it only requires 4 hostile creatures for the hunter to pull ahead.

Thirdly: Getting back to my first point, games I have been in regularly have packs of mobs 4+ in size. The game I am in with yourself has had several packs of 4+ enemies. The other 5th ed game I am in on the boards, the first combat had 28 enemies, not including medium size mounts for goblins. The hunter had a field day with damage.

My experience with fifth ed? Multi enemy combats are frequent.

You add proficiency bonus to damage for 3 attacks so that is 12 damage guaranteed so a maximized bow attack. It actually needs 5 at that point and probably 6+ later on not including the use of Swift Quiver.

[meltodowno]

You add proficiency bonus to damage for 3 attacks so that is 12 damage guaranteed so a maximized bow attack. It actually needs 5 at that point and probably 6+ later on not including the use of Swift Quiver.

The extra attack was edited out as per the dialogue several hours before this post. Additionally I have already said I can only talk mechanics, not what groupings of enemies a gm will throw at you.

Thanks for the reply, but please keep it constructive.