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atomicmatt3
2007-04-19, 07:52 PM
Rogue's are pretty cool. Nobody wants to nerf them up like they do with Paladins and Fighters (although I find this unneccisary.) Nobody wants to try to give them spells, and nobody want's to give them perfect BAB (Like I've seen SO MANY PEOPLE do with the Monk.) So, Rogues are good. Yay.

My question isn't neccisarily about Rogues, though. My question is about Sneak Attack Damage...

Namely, does it apply to every attack a Rogue gets? Does a Hasted 8th Level Rogue with Improved Two Weapon Fighting do 25d6 damage (With two short swords), or only 9d6?

I've found nothing in the PHB that leans either way as far as this goes. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough...

My old DM ruled that sneak attack applies to EVERY attack, but I find it unfair that our Rogue with a Ring of Blinking is dealing enough damage to equal two fireballs each round...

So, could somebody shine some light on the subject?

Kalirren
2007-04-19, 07:56 PM
The rule as stated in the SRD:

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

It doesn't say anything about it being once per round, or the first attack, so yes, it applies to every attack. This is one of the big changes 3e and 3.5e made from 2e, which gave a one-time multiplier on the single backstab strike you got when coming out of concealment/invisibility etc.

It's a bit strong, yes, but it's also very conditional, and it can be easily negated by monster abilities, type, fortification armor, and the like.

MeklorIlavator
2007-04-19, 07:57 PM
Sneak Attack damage applies whenever you make an attack roll and the target is flanked, flatfooted, helpless, has lost dex bonus to AC, or is not immune to sneak attacks. Yes, this means it applies to spells where you make an attack roll, and also for each and every attack during a full attack action.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-19, 07:58 PM
Blinking (with a ring) rogue with ghost touch weapons :P

Starbuck_II
2007-04-19, 08:00 PM
Rogue's are pretty cool. Nobody wants to nerf them up like they do with Paladins and Fighters (although I find this unneccisary.) Nobody wants to try to give them spells, and nobody want's to give them perfect BAB (Like I've seen SO MANY PEOPLE do with the Monk.) So, Rogues are good. Yay.

Rogues don't need it. Monks do badly at high levels.


My question isn't neccisarily about Rogues, though. My question is about Sneak Attack Damage...

Namely, does it apply to every attack a Rogue gets?

Did you think that it didn't it never says that. It specially says, anytime they meet the requirement.


Does a Hasted 8th Level Rogue with Improved Two Weapon Fighting do 25d6 damage (With two short swords), or only 9d6?

I've found nothing in the PHB that leans either way as far as this goes. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough...

My old DM ruled that sneak attack applies to EVERY attack, but I find it unfair that our Rogue with a Ring of Blinking is dealing enough damage to equal two fireballs each round...

So, could somebody shine some light on the subject?
Your old DM was right. This is why rogues don't need a powerup.

But remember blink gives you a miss chance for Your attacks. Not just your opponent.

MeklorIlavator
2007-04-19, 08:02 PM
And just who want to Nerf Fighters? I mean, those guys are considered one of the weaker classes.

And thats why you would get a ring of greater blink(or greater/superior invisiblity), so that only your enimies get the miss chance.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-19, 08:12 PM
Note also that blink always causes your opponent to lose their dex bonus to AC.

(Urrk. Why Wraithstrike is broken. But even brilliant energy... :/)

JackMage666
2007-04-19, 08:14 PM
I gotta say, though, it seems a bit strange that a rogue can do sneak attack damage on every attack... Especially if they can do so with a Ring of Invisibility. I would think that something that takes hitting a precise point would require a bit more time than just hitting any spot, but I guess that's just me.

Course, the idea of hitting someone 8 times in 6 seconds is a bit absurd too.

Dhavaer
2007-04-19, 08:16 PM
I gotta say, though, it seems a bit strange that a rogue can do sneak attack damage on every attack... Especially if they can do so with a Ring of Invisibility.

They can't. A Ring of Invisibility requires a standard action to activate, and you become visible after attacking.

wingover gimble
2007-04-19, 08:17 PM
Note also that blink always causes your opponent to lose their dex bonus to AC.

my freind plays a rouge with blink ring and he pwns the people we meet but thank god he doesnt screw over the party like most rouges. so remember just because rouges have the stealing ability doesn't mean that they have to steal from the party.

Matthew
2007-04-19, 08:17 PM
Flanking is the usual method. There's virtually no way a Rogue is going to hit with every Sneak Attack he makes, but it is a quite absurd amount of potential damage.

Indon
2007-04-19, 08:19 PM
Mind that the same ability that lets this rogue do a zilliond6 damage every attack is pretty much worthless against large categories of baddies; namely, anything immune to critical hits such as undead.

In contrast, you pretty much have to be Flamey McBurningthing from the Elemental Plane of Fire to be immune to fireball, and a caster can just swap to an ice attack against him.

Matthew
2007-04-19, 08:24 PM
Note also that blink always causes your opponent to lose their dex bonus to AC.

(Urrk. Why Wraithstrike is broken. But even brilliant energy... :/)
Actually, that's quite an interesting point. The Blink text does suggest that this is the case, but the Condition that it references Invisibility just says that the Character can ignore his opponent's Dexterity Bonus. Looks like a textual inconsistancy.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-19, 10:18 PM
Interestingly, while a Rogue with the Darkstalker Feat can flank Beholders(and their kin), as well as anything else with All-around Vision(like one or two of the Beholder Grafts), creatures with the "Rudimentary Eyespots" Silthilar Graft(ironically, also in Lords of Madness, where Darkstalker appears), or the Insectile Template(from Savage Species. One of the abilities granted is "Wide-angle Vision", which is functionally identical to All-round Vision, just differently named) are not likewise impeded.

BardicDuelist
2007-04-20, 08:01 AM
Feinting is great at low levels for a non magic way to use sneek attack, if you have inproved feint.

We use a house rule where feinting is a move action, improved feint makes it swift. The invisible blade's class feature, etc. make it free (so as to apply to all attacks).