View Full Version : Crusader build advice ?

2007-04-20, 11:22 AM
Crusader ECL 6, 32 point buy. The build so far:

Crusader 6; Str 17, De 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 14

1st Endurance
1st Extra Granted Maneuver
3rd Steadfast Determination
6th Power Attack ?

1st Douse the Flames (White)
1st Stone Bones (Stone)
1st Vanguard Strike (Devo)
2nd Mountain Hammer (Stone)
2nd Shield Block (Devo) or Foehammer (Devo) ?
3rd Revitalizing Strike (Devo)
3rd White Raven Tactics (White)

1st Leading the Charge (White)
1st Martial Spirit (Devo)

I'm mostly unsure about the feats, especially 6th level and beyond.

The character is for a game where there also might be non-ToB martial classes and I don't want to overshadow them. So i' not sure about the THF Power/Leap Attack & Shock Trooper route.

I somehow envisage the character as a Sword & Board fighter, strong defense, relying more on maneuvers for massive damage, so I'm not sure if Power Attack is neccessary at all.

Is Shield Specialization => Shield Ward worth it ? Or some other shield-feats ?

What about Devoted Bulwark => Faith Unswerving.

Are there some other good feats (without or with few prerequisites) that would fit for such a Sword & Board character ?

2007-04-20, 12:02 PM
Go for Shield Block over Foehammer, as Foehammer is essentially just an inferior Mountain Hammer, and you already have Mountain Hammer. Leading the Charge + Charging Minotaur is not a bad combination, and Dousing the Flames is really not an exceptional maneuver. Useful, yes, but not exceptional. I'd recommend taking Leading the Attack or Charging Minotaur over it.

I would say No to Power Attack at 6th. Shield Specialization is nice—increasing both your AC and the usefulness of Shield Block, but it IS only a +1, and it really only opens the path into a bunch of minimal-use feats that focus around doing odd things with your shield to other people. Including disarming yourself of your shield. Go figure. If you want to Sword+Board, then you might as well take it.

A nice Sword+Board feat is Shield Block (of the same name as the maneuver and the Knight class feature... confusing), which gives you the ability to use a form of deflect arrows through your shield, 1/round. Pretty decent, but perhaps overly specific to suit your needs.

I can actually firmly recommend to you a feat I generally frown upon, because 1) you're a crusader, and 2) you're already pretty far down the path as it is. I'd actually strongly recommend to you the Diehard feat. If you drop into the petty negatives, you can easily pull yourself back out with Revitalizing Strike or Martial Spirit. Two hits in a round off Martial Spirit will pull you up 4 hp, and a single good thwack of Revitalizing Strike will pull you all the way out. Combine that will Steely Resolve, and you should remain a significant combatant all the way through the negatives—essentially 10 extra hp for 1 feat. Not a bad deal.

Defensive Crusaders, like the one you've crafted, should also consider a dip into Knight—maybe 3 levels deep. +1 to Shield Bonus to AC, Bulwark of Defense, and Knight's Challenge are all just dandy, and there's a shiny d12 HD there, too.

2007-04-20, 12:35 PM
Crusaders get Diehard for free at 10th level.

Yeah, Charging Minotaur might be better than Douse the Flames. I had it but changed it for White Raven Tactics at 6th level.

Sure, Foehammer is a weaker Mountain Hammer, but having both reduces the need for a magic or special material weapon.

2007-04-20, 01:23 PM
...I am shamed to my core for overlooking Diehard.

If you really want to double up on Mountain Hammer and Foehammer, go for it. Two +2d6/byspass DR attacks means that you should have the ability to use quite frequently, which is definitely a good thing. I generally prefer having more versatility in my strike selection, and Shield Block is really, really good. Not for you, admittedly, but for your ally. If you're fighting with a rogue or other slightly frail combatant, and you can toss him a +6 or higher bonus to his AC, it'll pay off. It's also a great plan when you need to defend your wizard from close quarters, and is solidly on-flavor for your more defensive build. I just love the image of a crusader boldly placing himself between a monster and his wizard backup, slashing valiantly and defending his comrade.

2007-04-20, 02:23 PM
Currently I'm leaning towards Shield Specialization as the 6th level feat followed by Shield Ward at 9th level. I probably don't have enough feats to get Agile Shield Fighter, stupid amount of prerequisites.

15th level might be good for Martial Stance to get an 8th level stance.

That leaves 12th and 18th for other feats. Maybe Lunging Strike ? Armor Specialization ?