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ChubbyRain
2015-05-26, 01:24 PM
So I want to get the core mechanics and the spell list down before I get to far into the fluff, everyone knows what a rage mage essentially does... They Rage & Mage. I want to make a caujin character that is a rage mage... The raging maging cajun... Anyways... This will allow the Barbarian to become a 1/3 casters just as Fighters and Arcane Tricksters do, but with a totally different casting system.

This will be fluffed as Primal Magic and not Arcane or Divine. Primal Magic doesn't come from oneself or from the gods but from the very plane of existence itself.

Spellcasting (3rd Level)
At third level you learn arcane secretes that are fueled by your rage.

Cantrips
You learn two damaging cantrips from the Druid or Sorcerer spell list which may be used at any time, even during your rage. At 10th level you learn an additional Druid or Sorcerer cantrip of your choice. Using these cantrips extend your rage as if you attacked normally.

Spell Slots
Use the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster spell slots per spell level table to determine the number of spells of each level you may cast each day. To learn a spell you must have slots of that level and you regain all expended spell slots

Spell Known of 1st Level and Higher: You know three 1st level Druid or Sorcerer spells of your choice. These spells must target creatures other than yourself, cause damage, or cause some debilitating effect. You use the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster Spells Known column for the number of spells you may learn. When you cast a spell that has the concentration tag, it instead has a duration of 1 minute or when your rage ends (whichever comes first).

Whenever you gain a level in Barbarian you may replace a spell you knew with a new spell.

Spell Casting Ability
When not raging Charisma is your spell casting ability for your Druid or Sorcerer spells. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spell casting ability (generally or specifically).

Spell Save DC: 8 + Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier

Spell Attack Modifier: Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier

While you are raging you may use Constitution in place of Charisma for all effects relating to your spell casting ability.

Raging Spell Caster
The only time you may cast a spell of 1st level or higher is on the same turn in which you enter rage. This spell may be an action or bonus action spell but must be one in which the Barbarian Rage Mage could learn. When you cast this spell you may continue your rage into the next round even if it doesn't require an attack roll or your didn't take damage.

Spells that you cast that have a range and an Area of Effect (such as Shatter or Fireball) are centered on the rage mage but the rage mage is not harmed by the spell. Spells in which the range originates from the caster and single target spells are unaffected (such as Lightning Bolt, Fear, or Burning Hands).

Raging Magic (Level 6)
Your rage spills over into your spells. When enemies take damage from a spell you cast while raging, you may add your rage bonus damage to the roll.

Primal Alteration (Level 10)
When you strike an enemy you may expend a first level or higher spell slot to coat your weapon in primal elemental energy. Choose Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder. Your weapon damage type becomes that type of damage and is considered magical for purposes of overcoming resistances. This effect last for Concentration or 1 Minute.

As a bonus action you may expend a spell slot of first level or higher to cast the spell "Protection from Energy". This effect lasts for Concentration or 1 Hour.

You do not need to be in rage to perform these abilities but rage also doesn't stop you either. When not in rage use the normal rules for concentration, if you go into rage then your rage time (up to one minute or hour) your concentration and once you leave rage your spell ends.

Restraining Spell Fury (Level 16)
As an action, when you cast a rage mage spell when you enter rage you may hold the spell and your rage until a later round (no more than 10 rounds).

For the first round, your rage continues as if you have attacked or had damage dealt to you. After that you must follow the rules for rage but you do not gain any advantages for being in rage (such as advantage on str checks and saves and rage damage).

However on a later turn you may, as part of your action, unleash your fury. The spell that you held is now cast overpowered, fueled by your rage in which you had to hold back. For each round you held your spell it deals additional damage as if it had increase in level, up to a maximum of a 9th level spell. If the spell doesn't do damage then the target takes disadvantage on the spell's saving throw for a number of rounds you spent holding the spell and checking your fury.


Cantrip
Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Firebolt, Friends, Poison Spray, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Shillelagh, Shocking Grasp, and Thorn Whip.

1st
Animal Friendship, Burning Hands, Charm Person, Chromatic Orb, Color Spray, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Fog Cloud, Magic Missile, Ray of Sickness, Sleep, Thunderwave, and Witch Bolt.

2nd
Blindness/Deafness, Cloud of Daggers, Crown of Madness, Darkness, Enlarge/Reduce (reduce only), Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Gust of Wind, Hold Person, Moon Beam, Phantasmal Force, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Spike Growth, and Suggestion.

3rd
Call Lightning, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Fear, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Lightning Bolt, Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Slow, Stinking Cloud and Wind Wall.

4th
Banishment, Blight, Confusion, Grasping Vine, Ice Storm, Polymorph, Storm Sphere, Vitriolic Sphere, Wall of Fire, and Watery Sphere.


I need to add a few more spells I think, when I first made the spell list I only was doing PHB but I have since added EE spells so I'll fill it out later... Not sure if I have all the EE spells (actually I see I'm missing Ice Knife and Earth Tremor... So yeah more spells to come. As with any EE spell, ask your DM before you take it.

PotatoGolem
2015-05-26, 06:29 PM
This is... really weak, spellcasting-wise. You're at a 1/3 progression, which is reasonable, but then you can only cast 2-6 spells per day until level 20, and only by expending another resource. There's no reason to limit their spell list any further, since they're not much of a caster. Plus, they can't use utility spells without wasting their main combat trick, so they'll be sticking to combat spells anyway. I'd seriously rethink the casting limits. The advantage of EK and AT is that they give utility and options, whereas this really limits a character. As is, I think this archetype is clearly weaker than Totem barb as a barbarian subclass, and a much worse gish than the EK.

Stan
2015-05-26, 06:43 PM
Yea, I think the raging spellcaster part is what brings it all down. Even without that, they have limited spell options and have the same issues as EK, that a low level attack spell has trouble competing with a barbarians normal damage output.

ChubbyRain
2015-05-26, 11:00 PM
Yea, I think the raging spellcaster part is what brings it all down. Even without that, they have limited spell options and have the same issues as EK, that a low level attack spell has trouble competing with a barbarians normal damage output.

They don't cast spells while raging (except cantrips), a spell is cast when they rage.

Think of... Their rage is so extreme that they rip open the fabric of reality and cause a magic effect.

Here is an example of Thunderwave or Shatter.



https://38.media.tumblr.com/e1491a9554996f37aaff3eb4a727dc31/tumblr_mp7wftYMOy1s56vouo1_400.gif


Edit:

Forgot to say, this does give the barbarian something they don't actually have, the ability to deal with hordes.

Get surrounded? Fireball Rage, Thunderwave Rage, or even Sleet Storm Rage.

Stan
2015-05-27, 04:53 AM
They don't cast spells while raging (except cantrips), a spell is cast when they rage.


Given that entering rage isn't super common, how about they cast the spell as part of the same action as entering rage? Being able to get off a spell and a normal attack action on the opening round of a battle would give them an edge but it is limited enough that it wouldn't be overpowered.

If you think that's too much, then 1 attack plus a spell as an action.

Or, you could have the spell be cast for free but largely limit it to spells starting from the caster, as if a wave of energy is pouring from them:
Arms of Hadar
Burning Hands
Color Spray
Thunderwave
Gust of Wind
Fear
Lightning Bolt

ChubbyRain
2015-05-28, 02:55 AM
Given that entering rage isn't super common, how about they cast the spell as part of the same action as entering rage? Being able to get off a spell and a normal attack action on the opening round of a battle would give them an edge but it is limited enough that it wouldn't be overpowered.

If you think that's too much, then 1 attack plus a spell as an action.

Or, you could have the spell be cast for free but largely limit it to spells starting from the caster, as if a wave of energy is pouring from them:
Arms of Hadar
Burning Hands
Color Spray
Thunderwave
Gust of Wind
Fear
Lightning Bolt

Having it be free breaks the action economy too much. I'm not a fan of that.

Those spells work but I also want spells that can be centered on the barbarian like fireball or shatter... Mostly due to cool factor and because hordes are the barbarians weak point.

I would need to put a tidbit in the spell casting section that resembles the following.

All spells with a range that targets an area (shatter/fireball/spike growth/etc...) are cast as if the barbarian is the center of the AoE. The barbarian is never effected by damage of their own spells.

Edit

Another thing this gives the barbarian, very effective at-will magical damage that keeps rage going at range.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-28, 06:37 AM
Having it be free breaks the action economy too much. I'm not a fan of that.


Just read through all this, and I really like the concept. Does including the spell in the enragement really break action economy that badly? Both rages and spell slots are limited in their supply, and you don't get any really scary magic until level 13 anyway.

Without the 'free action spell', there needs to be some other boost somewhere to bring the class up to the level of EK and AT. Maybe in out-of-combat utility, though that would have to be careful not to step on the totem warrior's toes too much.

ChubbyRain
2015-05-28, 09:45 AM
Just read through all this, and I really like the concept. Does including the spell in the enragement really break action economy that badly? Both rages and spell slots are limited in their supply, and you don't get any really scary magic until level 13 anyway.

Without the 'free action spell', there needs to be some other boost somewhere to bring the class up to the level of EK and AT. Maybe in out-of-combat utility, though that would have to be careful not to step on the totem warrior's toes too much.

There really does need to he a bit of a boost to some of the other class features but before level 20, with free action Spell, you will have

2d12+(2*str mod)+(rage damage) + Spell (9d6 fireball/5d8 shatter) + rage damage.

That would be too much of a Nova...

The barbarian doesn't need out of combat utility, they aren't meant for that. They are meant to utterly destroy stuff. If you want out of combat utility then you go play a different caster.

Besides with spells like spike growth, plant growth, blind/deafness, and Enlarge/Reduce (reduce only)... The barbarian can easily help with battlefield control.

I'm actually thinking of making their spells (when they go into rage and during rage) be Con based instead of Cha based to reduce MADness. Actually... Yeah I'll change that up now.

Edit

Nova for a free casting spell would probably include Hold Person.

I see hold person be a lot like Killer Intent from shinobi/samurai stories and stuff.

jkat718
2015-05-28, 10:56 AM
In keeping with the idea of specialization, why not allow the Rage Mage to take a "Fury Magic Style" (name subject to change, I'm bad at naming these things), where they can choose from a list of features, similar to Fighting Styles, that augment an aspect of some typical Barbarian strategies. For example:


FISTS OF FIRE:
As a bonus action when you make an unarmed strike, you can wreath your body in magical flame. Your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage, and deal 1d4 fire damage in addition to their normal damage.

This damage increases by 1d4 when you reach5th level (2d4), 11th level (3d4), and 17th level (4d4)

Based on Burning Hands (a Sorcerer spell), with inspiration from Ki-Empowered Strikes (a Monk ability).


BLASTS AND BODY SLAMS:
You direct your clenched fist toward a creature or object you can see within 10 feet and blast a bolt of primal energy from your palm. Make a ranged spell attack. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 force damage.

This ability’s damage increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).

Based on Poison Spray (both a Sorcerer spell and a Druid spell).


PRIMORDIAL PIN:
You can use your action to try to blast a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, the target takes 1d8 force damage and has disadvantage on the next number of grapple checks it makes equal to your Strength modifier.

Based on Chill Touch (a Sorcerer spell).

ChubbyRain
2015-05-28, 11:20 AM
In keeping with the idea of specialization, why not allow the Rage Mage to take a "Fury Magic Style" (name subject to change, I'm bad at naming these things), where they can choose from a list of features, similar to Fighting Styles, that augment an aspect of some typical Barbarian strategies. For example:


FISTS OF FIRE:
As a bonus action when you make an unarmed strike, you can wreath your body in magical flame. Your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage, and deal 1d4 fire damage in addition to their normal damage.

This damage increases by 1d4 when you reach5th level (2d4), 11th level (3d4), and 17th level (4d4)

Based on Burning Hands (a Sorcerer spell), with inspiration from Ki-Empowered Strikes (a Monk ability).


BLASTS AND BODY SLAMS:
You direct your clenched fist toward a creature or object you can see within 10 feet and blast a bolt of primal energy from your palm. Make a ranged spell attack. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 force damage.

This ability’s damage increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).

Based on Poison Spray (both a Sorcerer spell and a Druid spell).


PRIMORDIAL PIN:
You can use your action to try to blast a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, the target takes 1d8 force damage and has disadvantage on the next number of grapple checks it makes equal to your Strength modifier.

Based on Chill Touch (a Sorcerer spell).

These are awesome, and I like the idea of having abilities need specific maneuvers going on in order to work... Such as grapple.

I'm thinking about making a variant of this subclass, a sister subclass really, that works a lot like the elemental Monk but instead of Ki, the barbarian would gain Fury Points.

These would work wonders with that set up. I would want to FP barbarian to be more integrated with their spells/non spell abilities.

The rage mage has classically been a raging melee + spell caster and that's what I wanted to make with this.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-28, 11:30 AM
These are awesome, and I like the idea of having abilities need specific maneuvers going on in order to work... Such as grapple.

I'm thinking about making a variant of this subclass, a sister subclass really, that works a lot like the elemental Monk but instead of Ki, the barbarian would gain Fury Points.

These would work wonders with that set up. I would want to FP barbarian to be more integrated with their spells/non spell abilities.

The rage mage has classically been a raging melee + spell caster and that's what I wanted to make with this.

I saw something similar to this in a youtube campaign where the DM created an expy of a wrestling star by refluffing the monk's ki points into 'madness points'. Codifying it into a barbarian subclass would be a much more elegant long-term solution. But you're right: it's not the Rage Mage. It's something else.

ChubbyRain
2015-05-28, 12:08 PM
I saw something similar to this in a youtube campaign where the DM created an expy of a wrestling star by refluffing the monk's ki points into 'madness points'. Codifying it into a barbarian subclass would be a much more elegant long-term solution. But you're right: it's not the Rage Mage. It's something else.

I want to make a wizard that uses madness points that alters their Illusions and Enchantments with them somewhat like Sorcery Points can alter Sorcerer spells with metamagic.

jkat718
2015-05-28, 02:47 PM
These are awesome, and I like the idea of having abilities need specific maneuvers going on in order to work... Such as grapple.

I'm thinking about making a variant of this subclass, a sister subclass really, that works a lot like the elemental Monk but instead of Ki, the barbarian would gain Fury Points.

These would work wonders with that set up. I would want to FP barbarian to be more integrated with their spells/non spell abilities.

The rage mage has classically been a raging melee + spell caster and that's what I wanted to make with this.

I think you're right, these spell-like abilities would work better as Four Elements-style powers. Let us know when you post the Elemental Barbarian.

ChubbyRain
2015-05-28, 02:57 PM
I think you're right, these spell-like abilities would work better as Four Elements-style powers. Let us know when you post the Elemental Barbarian.

I'll post it on these boards, it will probably look like the Criwdsource 5e Monk... Except a barbarian.

By that, I mean, integrating the spells into the barbarians physical attacks (melee attacks).