5e Vestige pact warlock (a.k.a. binder)

[Belac93]

Binder
Binders are students of an ancient and secret lore that allows them to call to entities that live beyond the known planes, in the spaces between the worlds. Through a combination of forgotten magics and complex bargains, they persuade or compel these beings to serve them - though not always without price.

Beyond Reality
A binder learns to cast their mind into the void between the planes, and to search the fractal wilderness there for beings that will answer their call. These beings are born from the chaos outside of reality, from the last echoes of the world's creation, and from energies that leak out of the planes. Their personalities, abilities and motivations vary wildly depending on their origin, ranging from reasonable and relatable to deeply inscrutable.

A Bargain Sealed
In order to obtain the services of a vestige, a binder must strike a deal with that vestige, and use their magic to make the terms of the agreement totally binding. Knowing this, the vestiges will often seek to outwit the binder, adding loopholes and ambiguity into the terms of the bargain, making every deal a grave risk for the binder.

Expanded Spell List
Spell Level Spells
1st Detect evil and good, Identify
2nd Augury, Detect thoughts
3rd Clairvoyance, Magic Circle
4th Divination, Banishment
5th Legend Lore, Contact Other Plane

Vestige Binding
Starting at level 1 you can bind creatures called vestiges. each vestige has a seal that you must learn before you can bind that particular vestige, you have a book that has all your vestige seals in it, identical to a spell book. You learn a new vestige automatically at level 10. You can copy vestige seals into you book with 1 hour of work
To bind a vestige, you require the following

The vestiges seal
A spell slot or mystic arcanum of the power level of the pact you are intending to forge
and 10 minutes to bind and negotiate with the vestige

When you attempt to bind a vestige, you must make a binding check, the binding check is a Charisma check equal to 10+the power level of the pact you are attempting to forge. If you do not succeed you are influenced my the vestige. A pact last for 24 hours unless you make another binding check in the last hour to sustain it for another 24 hours. For the pact strength, you also gain all of the ability’s of the strengths below

Patron Vestige
Starting at level 6, choose a vestige that you can summon. That vestige becomes your patron vestige, summoning your patron vestige takes half the amount of time it normally would, and you have advantage on rolls to bind your patron vestige

Soul Protection
Starting at level 10, your vestige protects your mind from effects that would harm it. You gain resistance to psychic damage, and you are immune to the frightened condition. in addition, you have become so used to vestiges that you may bind a second vestige at the lowest pact strength level

Vestige Master
Starting at level 14, you are always bound to your patron vestige, and the second vestige you may bind can be up to pact strength 2
List of vestiges

Ipos, Prince of Fools
Special. You must have proficiency in Intelligence (arcana) to summon Ipos with a good pact
Sign. You grow long black nails
Influence. If any creature requests that you inform them on a subject that you have knowledge of, you must inform them to your greatest ability
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You can harden your nails as a bonus action, when you do they become light slashing weapons that deal 1d6 damage
2 You can cast see invisibility once without using a spell slot. You regain the use of this ability after a short or long rest
3 You do not need to breath, and gain swim speed equal to your land speed
4 You can cast protection from energy at will without using a spell slot
5 Your claws now have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls, deal 1d8 damage, and are counted as magic weapons
6 You have proficiency with three of the following skills as long as you have Ipos bound: Arcana, history, investigation, nature, religion, or medicine

Elgior, the Dragons Slayer
Special. None
Sign. One of your hand becomes covered in dragon scales
Influence. You feel pity for outcasts, and must attack humans, elves, or dragons in combat before any other creature
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You are proficient in martial weapons and medium armour. In addition, you deal an extra 1d4 damage on all attacks while mounted
2 You have resistance to one of the following damage types: acid, cold, lighting, or fire
3 Your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage of the type you are resistant to.
4 You can cast find steed at will without using a spell slot, except the steeds type is dragon. The steed only lasts as long as you are bound.
5 You gain a +1 bonus to your armour class
6 You gain immunity to the damage type you are resistant to

Orthos, Sovereign of the Howling Dark
Special. You must summon Orthos in bright illumination
Sign. You are buffeted by a wind that no one else can feel, even when you are indoors
Influence. You hate dark areas of darkness or loud noises, you must always have a light source that is at least as bright as a candle. In addition, you must always speak in a whisper.
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You can use the message cantrip at will, in addition, you can cast detect magic once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
2 You can cast the gust of wind spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
3 You can cast the mirror image spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
4 You have blindsight out to 60 ft.
5 You can cast conjure elemental or control winds* once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
6 You can cast investiture of wind* once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest

Paimon, the Dancer
Special. None
Sign. One side of your mouth becomes wider than the other, as though stretched
Influence. You are lascivious and bold, you must always dance whenever you hear music(move at half speed)
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You gain proficiency with the rapier and the shortsword and the Charisma (performance) skill
2 While you are wearing light or no armour and wielding a one handed weapon and nothing in your other hand, your armour class equals 10+your dexterity modifier + your charisma modifier
3 You can move up to half your speed and make a melee weapon attack as an action, you must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again
4 On your turn you can make a bonus action to attack with a melee weapon you are holding, or to take the disengage action
5 Your speed increases by 15ft. while you are wearing light or no armour.
6 You double your proficiency bonus on Charisma (performance) checks, in addition, you may deal an extra 1d6 damage on attacks with finesse weapons once per round

Savnok, the Instigator
Special. You must have stolen something and made neither reparations nor apology for the act
Sign. A piece of arrow appears somewhere under your skin on your body
Influence. You refuse to take off any armour or let go of any shield you are wearing
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You are proficient in medium and heavy armour, shields, and one martial weapon of your choice
2 You can summon a suit of heavy or medium armour as an action on your turn, the type of armour is determined by your pact strength. The minimum strength requirement is reduced by 1. At pact strength 2 you can summon a chain shirt or chain mail.
3 You gain the benefits of the martial adept feat, except you learn only 1 maneuver. In addition, you can now summon scale mail armour
4 You choose and gain one fighting style from the fighter list. In addition you can now summon splint armour or breastplate.
5 Whenever you summon your armour, it counts as +1 armour, and you can also summon a shield in the same action. You can now summon half plate armour
6 Whenever you summon your armour, you gain twice your level temporary hit points. You must take a short or long rest before using this ability again. You can now summon plate armour

Andromalius, the Repentant Rogue
Special. You must obtain two different non-magical items worth at least 1 sp to give to Andromalius, these vanish when he takes them
Sign. You gain an extra digit on each limb
Influence. Your alignment changes to the closest chaotic alignment (e.g. lawful good becomes chaotic good, neutral becomes chaotic neutral). However, you cannot take possession of anything stolen or steal anything
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You can use the friends cantrip at will, in addition, you can cast Tasha’s hideous laughter once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest

2 You can cast the see invisibility spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
3 You can cast the locate object spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
4 You gain the Sneak Attack ability as a 3rd level rogue
5 You can cast the mislead spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
6 You can create any non-magical item at will, this item disappears if you try to create another non-magical item. If you spend a spell slot, you can create any common magical item, and if you expend two spell slots, you can create any uncommon item. These items disappear after a long rest

Shax, Sea Sister
Special. You must be within sight of a body of water when you summon Shax
Sign. You gain a scar around your neck, as if your head been been chopped off
Influence. You become possessive of your stuff and territory, and must demand compensation for favours
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You gain swim speed equal to your land speed
2 you can breath underwater
3 You have resistance to lightning damage
4 Your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 lightning damage and an extra 1d6 thunder damage
5 You gain immunity to lightning damage
6 Every creature you designate within 30 ft of you is resistant to lightning damage and can breath underwater and gains swim speed equal to their land speed

Tenebrous, the Shadow That Was
Special. You must draw Tenbrouses seal in a area of dim light or darkness
Sign. You appear to be standing in shadow even on the brightest day
Influence. You are filled with a sense of loss, and must never act first in combat
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You can use the chill touch cantrip at will, in addition, you can cast silent image once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
2 You can cast the darkness spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
3 You can cast the vampiric touch spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
4 You can see in darkness, magical or non-magical, there is no limit on how far you can see
5 You can cast the cone of cold spell once without using a spell slot, you regain this ability after a short or long rest
6 As a bonus action, you can negate all light in up to a 30 ft sphere around you, the area becomes magical darkness. You can shut this on or off as a bonus action, or you can decide how big it is (out to a maximum of 30 ft) or change it to dim light.

Marchosias, King of Killers
Special. You must have committed an evil act and not made amends or reparations for it.
Sign. Your eyes glow with an orangey red light
Influence. You become sly and more nasty than you are right now, however, this is not enough to cause alignment change
Powers.
Pact Strength Power
1 You gain proficiency in Stealth checks. In addition, you can cast the command spell once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rat before you can use this ability again
2 You gain proficiency in Deception and Persuasion checks
3 You can cast disguise self at will without using a spell slot. In addition, you can cast alter self once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rat before you can use this ability again
4 You gain the Sneak Attack ability as a 3rd level rogue. (2d6 damage)
5 You can cast dominate person once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rat before you can use this ability again
6 Your Sneak Attack improves to 5d6 damage



*elemental evil players companion

[faustin]

I would like, for once, to see more of the "bargaining" part, or how about the fight of will between the binder and the vestige for be the one in top while possesing.

[Belac93]

Well there is quite an interesting Binder class over here.
This is just something I decided to make in my spare time, so its not very refined

[Submortimer]

One thing: there's Nothing there that talks about what determines the pact strength you can bind.

Disregard, I found it.

An interesting idea: Warlocks that become Binders NEVER gain Pact magic. (They get cantrips and Mystic acanum, but lose their spell slots and spells known). In return, they gain their Vestige abilities, increasing in power every two levels till they get the level 6 powers. (So 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11).

Would you mind if I cleaned this up and added to it? I freaking LOVED the Binder, and i was sad that it kinda just got rolled into the Warlock this time.

[Prince Zahn]

Interesting.
Well, a little competition with the other binder class around (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412419-PEACH-Binder-class-(WIP)) never hurt anyone:smalltongue:

Frankly, I find it a little hard to associate binders with warlocks. Though they have their similarities, I find it a little iffy to compare the binder's temporary contracts with vestiges to a single, grand patron with plot-motivating, campaign specific interests. Also, when the vestiges aren't bound, where would my warlock's spells come from?

If I could offer you my two cents anyway - I'm on the binder's side, at the end of the day:

I'm not really sure what these pact strengths are and how you get them. Care you elaborate?
There's some overlap with the vestiges you chose, at least 2 of them give profincy with medium armor AND heavy armor, which kind of makes picking both of them slightly less tempting when you get your second vestige.
Avoid granting skill proficiencies willy-nilly. The game hands out very few skills because skills play a bigger role in this edition. As a rule of thumb for 5e, a class, let alone a subclass, should never grant you more skills than the rogue gets, since that's her specialty, more than anyone else's.
Andromalius: 5e comes with the expectation that the DM decides how to distribute magic items. As a DM I'd say "no" to anything that gives players easy access to magic items. Even potions. Even if the warlock only gets 4 slots a day, this is just begging to be exploited.
Marchosias: the warlock can already take invocations for at will disguise and alter self.
Tenebrous: his final ability seems a bit disappointing. I think you can afford to add a little "umph" to it to make it worthwhile.
in before: the binder's biggest selling point is the rich fluff, it's what made us fall head-over-heels with this tier 3/4 class from an old edition who has to beg for his class features :smalltongue: (I mean that in the most loving way possible, don't judge me.). Be sure to think about that.


That's all the time I have for now, good luck with the subclass!

[Belac93]

I don't mind if you take this and clean it up, that's all I really hope for.
About the abilities, in 3.5 the binder was meant to be the class that became all other classes, but was still itself, so gaining new skills is important for that, but I probably will tone it down a bit.
About Tenebrous's pact strength 6 ability, the main appeal of it is that it is pretty much a permanent darkness spell centered around you. It negates all light, including daylight spells and sunlight.
I'm changing Elgior's strength 1 ability to be different than Savnok's one.

[Submortimer]

So, here's a neat idea: like I said before, binders get no pact magic slots. They also give up mystic arcanum. In return, their vestiges power goes up to level 9, and they can only bind something at a power level equal to 1/2 their level, rounded up.

Vestiges would still only have 6 powers, but the stronger ones wouLD start at a higher level. Example: Orthos used to be a max level vestige. Here, you could start binding him at power level 4, and he gains an ability every power level till 9.

[weaseldust]

I hope this doesn't amount to hijacking your thread. It turned out as a long expression of a simple idea, which is to make the vestiges part of a new pact rather than a new patron and just have them replace spell slots on a 1:1 basis. It seems to me like a natural way of making a Binder out of a Warlock, but it does lose a lot of the old Binder flavour, so I can understand if it doesn't feel right.


Plan: a Binder is a Warlock with a particular kind of pact with their patron. The pact lets them use some of the powers and experience of certain souls previously sold or lost to the patron, in exchange for the loss of the Warlock's own soul to the patron upon death.

A vestige is one of those souls. You may gain access to one new vestige at each level instead of learning a new Warlock spell, though you can also gain access to others through adventuring. A vestige is represented mechanically as a background, a spell, and a mark. The background is one of the PC backgrounds (Sailor, Outlander, etc.). The spell is one from the Warlock list, but vestiges found through adventuring may have spells from outside the list; it must be of at most the level of your pact slots. The mark is a harmless change in your appearance, or the appearance of your Eldritch Blast, or a behavioural tic, etc., that manifests when you make a bad pact. You may design any vestige you choose as long as it observes these rules. (Example: the soul of an opera singer, with the background Entertainer, the spell Shatter, and the mark being a tendency to speak far too loudly.)

If you take the Pact of the Vestige at level 3, whenever you regain spell slots you may replace any number of slots with vestiges. When you do so, you gain one of the benefits of each of the vestiges' backgrounds and you also gain the ability to cast the vestiges' spells once each. You cast those spells at the level of your pact spell slots. When you gain mystic arcana, you can also replace them with vestiges, in which case you cast the vestige's spell at the level of the arcanum. Vestiges remain bound once you have cast their spells, but you may replace bound vestiges whenever you take a short or long rest.

When you bind any vestige, you must make a charisma check against a DC of 1 plus the spell level of the vestige. If you fail, you have made a bad pact, in which case you manifest the mark of that vestige until you are able to replace it.

While you have any number of vestiges bound, whenever you are the target of an attempt to read your thoughts or emotions or otherwise access your mind, you may choose for the attempt to target one of your bound vestiges instead.

You may occasionally gain new vestiges while adventuring. To gain a vestige this way, you must first deliver the soul into the control of your patron; this might be by trapping the soul using magic, or by persuading a creature (perhaps through trickery) to sign its soul to your patron and then waiting for or causing its death. Choose an appropriate background, spell and mark for each vestige gained in this manner; the spell must be one the soul could cast in life, whether or not it is on the Warlock list.

There should also be pact-specific invocations to take. That would need more thinking about, but you could include: when you bind vestiges, gain expertise in one of the skills from one of their backgrounds; cast Unseen Servant at will; gain a favoured vestige that protects you from the others - when you bind this vestige, you automatically pass all checks against making bad pacts; when you bind vestiges, one of the spell slots or arcana you replace may be replaced by a number of vestiges whose spell levels add up to the level of that slot/arcanum.


I have no idea if the above is useful or appealing; it just struck me that Binders are about preparation and minor personality changes, and a simple and natural way to introduce that to the Warlock is to be able to prepare certain spells in your pact slots and have a personality attached to each one. It preserves none of the very many named vestiges from older editions, though you could recreate them in some form. You could also design an entirely new class based on the Warlock chassis (pact slots, invocations and mystic arcana) but with all spells coming from different vestiges.

[Prince Zahn]

I hope this doesn't amount to hijacking your thread. It turned out as a long expression of a simple idea, which is to make the vestiges part of a new pact rather than a new patron and just have them replace spell slots on a 1:1 basis. It seems to me like a natural way of making a Binder out of a Warlock, but it does lose a lot of the old Binder flavour, so I can understand if it doesn't feel right.
Weaseldust has some interesting points. :smallsmile: I don't think the temporary pact with a vestige is anything like the deal a warlock makes with a patron. But gathering them and being able to use their powers for your patron is quest-inspiring material. It's like making the warlock a darker, freakier version of Card-Captor Sakura. :smallbiggrin:


*snip* interesting, although I'm not too keen on a warlock having to give up his spells for *anything*, given how few he normally gets.
That being said, if this is an independent pact boon, it shouldn't be taking away from the Warlock, but rather adding to his/her overall output. It should be on par with the other 3 pact boons.

I'm around if you want to talk ideas, I just can't get enough Pact Magic :smalltongue:

[Submortimer]

I have a number of changes that i'm going to post here (probably tomorrow). Much of it is going to be the same as what Belac93 already posted, just with some major changes to the mechanics.

I agree that it shouldn't be anything like a Normal patron: normal patrons grant spells and patron abilities. Vestiges give more power, but in a highly specialized package, and give you some extreme versatility...but there are risks involved.

[Belac93]

Thanks, I love warlocks, they are my favorite class, 3 of my 6 characters in 5th edition have been warlocks

[Prince Zahn]

Thanks, I love warlocks, they are my favorite class, 3 of my 6 characters in 5th edition have been warlocks

I'm very much enjoying my warlock and I haven't even cast EB yet :smalltongue:

I still don't understand these power levels (1 to 6) how does that work?

[Belac93]

to gain a pact of the power level, you have to expend a spell slot or mystic Arcanum of the pact level you want to create

[Prince Zahn]

to gain a pact of the power level, you have to expend a spell slot or mystic Arcanum of the pact level you want to create

Oh I see! That makes better sense. ^_^

I am still curious, though - where does this warlock get his powers (Cantrips and features) if he isn't using a vestige? Does he have a bigger patron involved?



Vestige Binding
Starting at level 1 you can bind creatures called vestiges. each vestige has a seal that you must learn before you can bind that particular vestige, you have a book that has all your vestige seals in it, identical to a spell book. You learn a new vestige automatically at level 10. You can copy vestige seals into you book with 1 hour of work would you be okay with me bringing this up in another thread? I like the idea of giving at least some certainty about having vestiges you can depend on having throughout the adventure is kind of neat. The way the old Tome of Magic did it, you either were completely dependent on your DM to give you level appropriate vestiges, or completely independent since you received them all unquestionably. It wasn't as often that DMs and players set a middle ground.

Anyway, Except for vestiges I mentioned (Andromalius still being a red check-engine light, with the ability to create magic items on a whim), the option seems alright to me as a form of pact (again, I was slightly kidding but also earnest about that Sakura remark.like it or not, those sorts of stories and adventures actually have a cult following, and would be awesome to roll with them, IMHO.:smallsmile:)

[Belac93]

You can take this to another thread if you like