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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next My Attempt at making a PC Kobold Race



Forum Explorer
2015-05-29, 03:49 AM
Exactly as the title says. So here it is.

Charisma: +1
Dexterity: +1
Size: Small
Speed: 25 feet
Darkvision
AC: +1
Pack Tactics: The kobold has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of the kobold's allies are within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
Sunlight Sensitivity: While in sunlight the kobold has disadvantage on attack roles as well as Perception Checks that rely on sight.
Sneaky: Kobolds have proficiency in Stealth
Guards and Messengers: Kobolds know the cantrip Message
Languages: Kobolds know Common and Draconic


No subraces at all (I never really liked winged kobolds)

So how powerful is the race in comparison to other races?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-29, 04:17 AM
I guess the most direct comparison is Drow*, because of Sunlight Sensitivity. So the trade-off is:

5 feet of movement, two once/day spells, heavy weapons, fey ancestry and some cool weapon proficiencies vs pack tactics, +1AC and riding medium mounts.

That's not too bad. Pack Tactics is obviously great, but you don't get much else, so it's probably ok.

I'd change the +1AC so it doesn't stack with armour, because why should it? Ane what's the logic behind Message? MM Kobolds don't have it.

The other thing (and I'm AFB, so I don't know the Kobold stat block) is: why Charisma? I thought Dex and Int were the defining features of Kobolds. Update: found it on GIS. The second stat is Con! Shocker!

* Whether or not the Drow themselves are balanced is another question...

Forum Explorer
2015-05-29, 04:27 PM
I guess the most direct comparison is Drow*, because of Sunlight Sensitivity. So the trade-off is:

5 feet of movement, two once/day spells, heavy weapons, fey ancestry and some cool weapon proficiencies vs pack tactics, +1AC and riding medium mounts.

That's not too bad. Pack Tactics is obviously great, but you don't get much else, so it's probably ok.

I'd change the +1AC so it doesn't stack with armour, because why should it? Ane what's the logic behind Message? MM Kobolds don't have it.

The other thing (and I'm AFB, so I don't know the Kobold stat block) is: why Charisma? I thought Dex and Int were the defining features of Kobolds. Update: found it on GIS. The second stat is Con! Shocker!

* Whether or not the Drow themselves are balanced is another question...

If the +1 AC didn't stack with armor, then it'd be completely useless, as it's trivial to get armor that provides a much better bonus then that.

Message is so that Kobolds can be even better at ambushes, traps, and clever tactics by being able to communicate with each other easily.


Charisma is because Kobolds are always presented as having an affinity with being Sorcerers, and because there has to be some reason there are so adored by their fans. :smallamused:

urkthegurk
2015-05-29, 06:20 PM
'Message' makes total sense. Kobolds are sometimes known as 'Knockers'- legend says they knock to warn miners about an impending cave-in, or simply to scare them off. As message can be overheard by nearby listeners, knocking could also serve as a kind of code, to make sure that a signal is not intercepted.

Other kobold spells would obviously be Knock and Magic Mouth, for characters with the appropriate class levels.

This is excellent for me, as I'm looking for ways to work kobolds into my games. So far they're major NPCs, but its only a matter of time before some enterprising player wants to portray one.

eleazzaar
2015-05-29, 10:37 PM
You are giving them two significant and powerful traits (which PHB races don't get): +1 AC, and "Pact Tactics". I'm not quite sure how highly to value them. This might be in the middle of the PHB race power scale-- or somewhere near the top.

Steampunkette
2015-05-30, 12:09 AM
I'd say increase pack tactics to 2 non-kobold allies or 1 kobold ally.

Big folks and smoothskins just don't know how to move in a pack! You gotta have more of 'em to get under the giblets in a fight.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-30, 12:43 AM
I'd say increase pack tactics to 2 non-kobold allies or 1 kobold ally.

Big folks and smoothskins just don't know how to move in a pack! You gotta have more of 'em to get under the giblets in a fight.

Or: 2 allies are needed, or 1 with Pack Tactics. Then a kobold ranger could do it with a wolf companion. It's kind of awkward to phrase either way, but it might turn out to be necessary. Playtesting required!

Steampunkette
2015-05-30, 01:54 AM
Or: 2 allies are needed, or 1 with Pack Tactics. Then a kobold ranger could do it with a wolf companion. It's kind of awkward to phrase either way, but it might turn out to be necessary. Playtesting required!

"When two of your allies are within 5 feet of your target you gain advantage on attack rolls. You can also gain advantage on attack rolls if you have one ally who possesses the Pack Tactics ability within 5 feet of the target."

Forum Explorer
2015-05-30, 02:53 AM
You are giving them two significant and powerful traits (which PHB races don't get): +1 AC, and "Pact Tactics". I'm not quite sure how highly to value them. This might be in the middle of the PHB race power scale-- or somewhere near the top.

As long as they aren't far over the top, I'm not too worried. I didn't think they were beyond the free breath weapon (+ resistance) that Dragonborn get, or the advantage on all possible mental magic Gnomes get.


Or: 2 allies are needed, or 1 with Pack Tactics. Then a kobold ranger could do it with a wolf companion. It's kind of awkward to phrase either way, but it might turn out to be necessary. Playtesting required!

Maybe. I'm thinking most of the time the Advantage granted will be canceled by the disadvantage from Sunlight Sensitivity.

Takewo
2015-05-30, 03:18 AM
"When two of your allies are within 5 feet of your target you gain advantage on attack rolls. You can also gain advantage on attack rolls if you have one ally who possesses the Pack Tactics ability within 5 feet of the target."

That is kind of valid, but then you would need to also change the kobold from the Monster Manual, for there it clearly states that if at least one of the kobold's allies is within five feet of the creature that the kobold is attacking. That means allies of any kind or race. Whether this is what the creators intended or not is another matter.

DracoKnight
2015-05-30, 03:46 AM
Seems really decent :) Not quite what I gave my Kobolds, but these seem pretty good :)
The only thing I would change: the only official PC race in 5e that gets an AC bonus if the Warforged. They give up their +2 stat bonus for it. So the Warforged get +1 STR, +1 CON, and then the +1 AC

Steampunkette
2015-05-30, 04:41 AM
That is kind of valid, but then you would need to also change the kobold from the Monster Manual, for there it clearly states that if at least one of the kobold's allies is within five feet of the creature that the kobold is attacking. That means allies of any kind or race. Whether this is what the creators intended or not is another matter.

Eh. You could. Or you could just acknowledge that what's good for the NPC Monster is not always good for the PC character and move on with your day. It depends how much work you're willing to do.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-30, 05:33 AM
Eh. You could. Or you could just acknowledge that what's good for the NPC Monster is not always good for the PC character and move on with your day. It depends how much work you're willing to do.

Ultimately, I think the first option (acknowledging that PCs and monsters can't be subject to the same rules) is the sensible one for 5e. That's why my pixie PC race doesn't get Polymorph as a racial ability, and my sprite (now) has a 30' fly speed.

Takewo
2015-05-30, 06:55 AM
Eh. You could. Or you could just acknowledge that what's good for the NPC Monster is not always good for the PC character and move on with your day. It depends how much work you're willing to do.

I totally agree on that. But then, I would just not allow kobolds as an option for playing characters.

The Witch-King
2015-05-30, 07:32 AM
I'm not a big fan of 4th edition, but it does present some rather good Kobold abilities you might want to consider:

"Shifty (minor; at-will)
The kobold shifts 1 square."

"Trap Sense
The kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps."

"Combat Advantage
The kobold skirmisher deals an extra 1d6 damage on melee and ranged attacks against any target it has combat advantage against."

"Mob Attack
The kobold skirmisher gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls per kobold
ally adjacent to the target."

Lastly, Goblin Tactics isn't a Kobold ability but I think would work better than Shifty.

"Goblin Tactics (immediate reaction, when missed by a melee attack; at-will). The goblin shifts 1 square."

eleazzaar
2015-05-30, 07:43 AM
As long as they aren't far over the top, I'm not too worried. I didn't think they were beyond the free breath weapon (+ resistance) that Dragonborn get, or the advantage on all possible mental magic Gnomes get.
As a minimum, i'd say the are equal to either of those traits you mention. Quite possibly more.




Maybe. I'm thinking most of the time the Advantage granted will be canceled by the disadvantage from Sunlight Sensitivity.

Most of the time? Not likely. I'd judge on the average campaign most combat to take place indoors, underground or at night. For some campaigns all of it.

Mark Hall
2015-05-30, 07:53 AM
Why are freaky little dog monsters getting a bonus to Charisma?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-30, 08:05 AM
Why are freaky little dog monsters getting a bonus to Charisma?

See, that's what I said.

Them yipping demons gotta be the ugliest things what I ever done seen!

Takewo
2015-05-30, 08:51 AM
Someone's already said it is because they are associated with sorcery powers (I think).

We need keep in mind that Charisma also measures how strong is the creature's personality, personal charm and ability to blend the rules of the universe to its will...

What I really don't get is why those squeaky creatures are associated with sorcerers.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-05-30, 09:26 AM
What I really don't get is why those squeaky creatures are associated with sorcerers.

I head that it was because people were complaining that Kobolds were boring and pointless because they didn't have a unique schtick - that's why Tucker's Kobolds were such a hit. These weak, pointless little dog monsters actually put some PCs on the back foot.

So they gave them Draconic heritage as a 'thing', though from what I can recall, the 5e core books haven't really talked up Kobolds being sorcerers themselves. They don't usually have the Charisma for it.

Forum Explorer
2015-05-30, 12:43 PM
Seems really decent :) Not quite what I gave my Kobolds, but these seem pretty good :)
The only thing I would change: the only official PC race in 5e that gets an AC bonus if the Warforged. They give up their +2 stat bonus for it. So the Warforged get +1 STR, +1 CON, and then the +1 AC

That's a good idea. I'll implement that.


I head that it was because people were complaining that Kobolds were boring and pointless because they didn't have a unique schtick - that's why Tucker's Kobolds were such a hit. These weak, pointless little dog monsters actually put some PCs on the back foot.

So they gave them Draconic heritage as a 'thing', though from what I can recall, the 5e core books haven't really talked up Kobolds being sorcerers themselves. They don't usually have the Charisma for it.

I brought back the draconic heritage for a homebrew setting (which was why I felt I needed an option to have the PCs play as Kobolds in the first place), so I've disregarded much of the current 5e fluff.