True Necromancer as villan?

[Khoran]

Alright, I'm working on an upcoming campaign for my group, and I was just wondering if the True Necromancer class from Libris Mortis would make for a good Villan, or if it would be better to have him be a straight up Wizard? If so, I would also like to know if I should specialize his Wizard levels, and if so, what should his prohibited schools be.

If it helps, I am aming for him to be around level 15 or 16.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

To be honest, I think the True Necromancer pales in comparison to the Pale Master PrC. :smallbiggrin:

Do you have Heroes of Horror? If so, you should definately give consideration to the Dread Necromancer. Lich transformation aside, it allows you to cast in light armor, choose a martial weapon and rebuke undead! Very, very effective.

[Black Mage]

Ah, the pun...it burns.

If you have Heroes of Horror, I strongly suggest making a Dread Necromancer. Free lich transformation, armor, rebuking undead, know all your spells, and a d6 HD before you hit lich.

[Khoran]

I think I just heard the sound of the puns wooshing over my head. You'll have to forgive me.

I do not have Heroes of Horror, so I can't use the Dread Necromancer for the villan. So, instead, I was working with what I had and was wondering if True Necro would be a good way to go. Zousha, thanks for the hint about the Palemaster. Any other possiblities that would work?

[Sundog]

Personally, I find the idea of a True Necromancer with a Pale Master Chief Henchman kind of scary...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Personally, I find the idea of a True Necromancer with a Pale Master Chief Henchman kind of scary...

I just miss-read that as Pale Master Chef Henchman.

[JellyPooga]

Personally, I find the idea of a True Necromancer with a Pale Master Chief Henchman kind of scary...

I couldn't help reading this as "Pale Master Chief Henchman". Does he wear power armour and tote an assault rifle?

OT: True Necro makes for a pretty good villain. O.k. so he's (she's?) not going to be 'optimised' (lack of caster prog, etc.) but flavour-wise, they fit the bill...if you're going for undead master type bad guy who sits on his/her throne and tells powerful minions to attack, whislt s/he watches the show. If the minions are defeated, the bad guy runs away.

If you're after the more, "I'm an evil wizard and now I'll deal with you myself, now that you've fought through my petty minions", go for wizard. Specifically, go for Necromancy specialised (for the flavour more than anything) and lose either enchantment or illusion and either evocation or transmutation (my preference is for illusion and evocation).

Speaking of the Pale Master, although they are sub-optimal, they do make good villains. What could be better than a half-undead necromancer as a bad guy? If you make him slightly combat oriented, it could make for a somewhat surprising end-game for the PC's when the 'evil wizard' rushes them and bitch-slaps one of them into a zombie.

Anyway, hope i've helped.

[Khoran]

Thanks JellyPooga, you actually hit the nail on the head for the kind of Villan I was looking for. He hides, and should he be discovered he will attempt to hightail it out of there while the heros fight minions, and will only fight if he is confident he will win or if he is cornered.

Thanks for the advice on the specialization, but should I still do it if I am going into True Necromancer. I don't see the draw back, but maybe there is something I don't see. Also, I'm thinking I might throw them off with a combat-oriented Pale Master as a smaller villan along the way after hearing your suggestion, so thank you.

Thanks again for all the help.

[JellyPooga]

Thanks for the advice on the specialization, but should I still do it if I am going into True Necromancer. I don't see the draw back, but maybe there is something I don't see.

I don't think it would particularly make a lot of difference whether you specialise, 'cos most of the work he does is done 'behind-the-scenes' in the actual creation of his Undead horde (presumably you'll be taking some of the Corpsecrafter feats?), so his spells/day isn't going to make alot of difference.

So having said that, it might be more advantageous to not specialize, so that you have a wider variety of spells to choose from. But then again, it's your call, either way it shouldn't have an awful lot of in-game effect.

Have a look on the wizards forum for the 'Tome of Necromancy' (if you haven't already). The guy who wrote it makes a lot of good points (though he does say not to go True Necro) about playing a Necromancer, though I don't agree with everything he says, myself.

[mikeejimbo]

I just miss-read that as Pale Master Chef Henchman.

That's pretty scary too, actually. :smalleek:

"Chef Henchy! Why don't we have the adventures for....dinner?"

[the_tick_rules]

unless i missed something big from what i saw a true necromancer is a very dangerous person and would make a great villain.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't know much about optimization, but it appears the general consensus is that the True Necromancer's caster progression is not conducive to a powerful spellcaster. You need to take levels of cleric and an arcane spellcasting class, if memory serves. But as I've said, I don't know the first thing about optimization, so I'm not sure why the True Necromancer doesn't get much love. Maybe if the villain was a lich, he/she could get some love...:smallbiggrin:

[PinkysBrain]

Check out the off beat true necromancer here :
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625656

The trick is that you can use spellstitching to meet the prerequisite for the TN ... making the PrC a little better. It only really works for NPCs (the spellstitching costs are too expensive for PCs).

[Khoran]

I don't know much about optimization, but it appears the general consensus is that the True Necromancer's caster progression is not conducive to a powerful spellcaster. You need to take levels of cleric and an arcane spellcasting class, if memory serves. But as I've said, I don't know the first thing about optimization, so I'm not sure why the True Necromancer doesn't get much love. Maybe if the villain was a lich, he/she could get some love...:smallbiggrin:
Yes, it requires Cleric/Favored Soul and Wiz/Sorc, which makes you 3 levels behind on both Progressions, at least. And yes, that does seem to be sub-optimal for the villan, but I feel the flavor of it makes up for the lack of 8th level spells, even if it means if he dies (Not a problem, considering I'd feel bad if the PCs made it to the end of the campaign only to die)


Check out the off beat true necromancer here :
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625656

The trick is that you can use spellstitching to meet the prerequisite for the TN ... making the PrC a little better. It only really works for NPCs (the spellstitching costs are too expensive for PCs).
Interesting and powerful, that's to be sure, and a great way to get into the class. However, my villan is (At least in the begining of the campaign.) must be a human, so saddly I can't apply this. Thank you very much for digging it up though, I'll keep this in mind incase I decide to go further in the campaign, I could toss something similar at them.