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View Full Version : Pathfinder Here comes the BLAM train! or, gun generation for Pathfinder and D&D



timkiller888
2015-06-03, 04:26 AM
Hey all, I'm new here but I've lurked for quite a time. I like guns a lot. I've seen the rules and such for guns in Pathfinder and D&D, and they suck ass. I'm no huge fan of archaic black powder guns, so I've ignored them completely, and I love cartridge firearms, so that's all I've focused on here. By stealing from several different sources (which you may be able to identify) I have made my own gun generation system that roughly conforms to your basic D&D-type rule set, and which can easily be converted to just about any other rule set with little effort. I've tried to explain how some of the more complicated bits work here for the layman, but I'm certainly not perfect. So please pardon any inappropriate or inaccurate descriptions :)
Here's how this puppy works: You select a Body Type, Ammo Type, and Mechanism Type, then smash all the bits together to get your gun. Cost is based on a world where firearms technology is so common that spending hundreds of gold on most weapons is ludicrous. If common guns in Pathfinder is 10% of the base cost, imagine this as being 1%. Feel free to adjust the prices to your liking of course.

BODY TYPES
Body type determines Range and Weight.
Holdout: An especially small handgun, designed to have fewer snags and protrusions. This Body grants a +2 to checks made to conceal the weapon. A Holdout using ammunition larger than a Revolver bullet requires either a Strength of 18 to fire safely, or a DC18 Strength check each time the weapon is fired, otherwise the intense recoil deals 1d6 Bludgeoning damage to the wrist. When used for autofire attacks, a Holdout Body imparts a -6 penalty to attack rolls due to its small size and light weight making automatic fire almost completely uncontrollable.
Range: 20 feet | Weight: 1 lb.
Cost: 5 GP
Handgun: A regular sized handgun, designed to be fired comfortably and accurately with one hand, although a two handed grip is preferred for greater accuracy and control. A Handgun using ammunition larger than a Revolver bullet requires either a Strength of 15 to fire safely, or a DC15 Strength check each time the weapon is fired, otherwise the intense recoil deals 1d4 Bludgeoning damage to the wrist. When used for autofire attacks, a Handgun Body imparts a -4 penalty to attack rolls due to it not having enough weight to counteract the high recoil.
Range: 30 feet | Weight: 3 lbs.
Cost: 10 GP
Short Gun: A Short Gun is roughly two thirds to half the length of a Long Gun, and as such is lighter, more compact, and easier to maneuver in tight spaces. However, more recoil is felt using a Short Gun with a larger caliber bullet to the Body's lighter weight. When making an autofire attack, the Short Gun Body takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls. If shot one handed, the Short Gun takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls. Both penalties stack if both criteria are met.
Range: 70 feet | Weight: 8 lbs.
Cost: 15 GP
Long Gun: A full length rifle, standing about four to four and a half feet from the butt to the muzzle (for medium creatures). Long Guns are heavy, but benefit from less felt recoil, longer range, and a higher ammunition capacity than other Body Types. They excel when used in wide open spaces, but their large size makes them unwieldy in close quarters, such as a building or dungeon, and as such impart a -2 attack penalty in tight spaces. When used to make autofire attacks, they take only a -1 penalty to attack rolls. Unfortunately, the length and weight of the Long Gun Body makes them exceptionally unwieldy when fired one handed, giving a whopping -4 penalty to attack rolls. All of these penalties stack if all the criteria for them are met.
Range: 100 feet | Weight: 10 lbs.
Cost: 20 GP

AMMO TYPES
Ammo type determines Damage and Critical range, and Capacity where applicable.
Pistol Ammo: Small ammunition used primarily in Holdouts and Handguns, but their use in larger weapons is not unheard of. The recoil of these rounds is so negligible in larger firearms that the attack penalty for autofire using the Short Gun body is reduced to -1, and is entirely absent used with the Long Gun body. When used for autofire attacks, the Pistol bullet deals an extra die of damage for every 2 points over the target's AC score that is reached. The Capacity increase doesn't apply to the Holdout Body.
(Examples include the .32 S&W Auto round, the .380 ACP round, and the famous 9mm Parabellum bullet.)
Damage: 2d4 | Critical: x2 | Capacity: +50%
Cost: 5 GP
Revolver Ammo: Medium ammunition that is, surprisingly enough, used primarily with the Revolver Mechanism. It balances damage, recoil and capacity, and is cost effective as well. When used for autofire attacks, the Pistol bullet deals an extra die of damage for every 3 points over the target's AC score that is reached.
(Examples include the .357 magnum bullet and the most powerful handgun bullet in the world, the .44 magnum.)
Damage: 2d6 | Critical: x3
Cost: 10 GP
Intermediate Ammo: This ammo is in between a Pistol or Revolver bullet and a full-size Rifle bullet, and in some cases may actually be necked or shortened Rifle bullets, but this ammo type applies to any number of bullets smaller than a Rifle bullet but still considered a rifle round. When used for autofire attacks, the Intermediate bullet deals an extra die of damage for every 4 points over the target's AC score that is reached. Capacity is reduced by 30% when using this ammunition in a Holdout or Handgun.
(Examples here would be the 7.92mm Kurz, the 5.56mm NATO, the 5.45mm Warsaw round, the .30 Carbine round, and the .30-30 Winchester at the largest end of the spectrum.)
Damage: 2d8 | Critical: x3
Cost: 20 GP
Rifle Ammo: Large ammunition designed for range and firepower. These bullets are the standard used in most rifles and carbines in front line military service, but the lower recoil of the Intermediate bullet is seen as more valuable in close quarters. When used to make an autofire attack, the Rifle bullet deals an extra die of damage for every 5 points over the target's AC score that is reached. Capacity is reduced by 50% when using this ammunition in a Holdout or Handgun.
(Examples would be the 7.62mm NATO round, the the .303 Enfield round, the .30-06 Springfield bullet, and any number of battle rifle cartridges.)
Damage: 2d10 | Critical: x4
Cost: 20 GP
Sniper Rifle Ammo: This large ammunition is manufactured to exacting specifications, ensuring greater range, accuracy and raw firepower over other bullets, but with far greater recoil. This ammo imparts a +2 attack bonus due to being precision manufactured for accuracy. When used for autofire attacks, this weapon deals an extra die of damage for every 6 points over the target's AC score that is reached, and loses the +2 attack bonus when used for autofire attacks. When used in a Holdout or Handgun, this ammunition can only be used with a Single Barrel or Double Barrel Mechanism.
(The .300 Winchester round and .338 Lapua are good modern examples, but just about any large bore round bigger than a standard battle rifle bullet also works here as an example.)
Damage: 2d12 | Critical: x4
Cost: 40 GP
Shotgun Ammo: This ammo fires a cone-shaped spread of lead pellets called shot. This increases the chance of a hit at range, but decreases damage over range due to the spread. Damage is decreased by range increment, dealing 1 die less each increment after the first. Capacity penalty does not apply to the Single Barrel, Double Barrel, or Repeating Action Mechanisms.The pure destructive power of shot shells in an autofire attack increases the damage by two dice for every 4 points over the target's AC score that is reached.
(This is your 12 and 10 gauge shell, or something of comparable power.)
Damage: 4d4 | Critical: x4 | Range: -50% | Capacity: -25%
Cost: 15 GP

MECHANISM TYPES
Mechanism type determines Misfire and Capacity.
Single Barrel: A single barreled mechanism is just that, a single barrel and a single bullet. Many different individual designs facilitate this arrangement, but for all intents and purposes they are identical: the breech is opened, a round is inserted into the chamber, and the breech is closed for firing. Some have a hammer that needs to be cocked before firing and others don't. This has no effect on how fast you attack. Reloading is a standard action. A Single Barrel firearm is considered a Simple Weapon.
Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 1
Cost: 10 GP
Double Barrel: Like with the Single Barrel Mechanism, this is exactly what is says on the tin: two barrels, two bullets. The exact arrangement and operating system varies, with some arranging the barrels next to each other and some with one atop the other. In any case, this Mechanism is much like the Single Barrel: the breech is exposed, rounds are inserted, breech is closed, and ready to fire. This design is most common with shotguns, but some large bore hunting rifles have been known to use it as well. When coupled with Shotgun Ammo, you can fire both barrels simultaneously, dealing 6d4 damage at a -2 attack penalty due to the massive recoil this imparts. Reloading is a standard action. A Double Barrel firearm is considered a Simple Weapon.
Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 2
Cost: 10 GP
Revolver: A mechanism by which a rotating cylinder holds the ammunition, with the cocking of the hammer rotating the cylinder to bring the next chamber in the cylinder in line with the barrel. Some models the hammer has to be cocked back manually, others it is cocked back automatically when pulling the trigger. Most common on handguns, carbines and sharpshooter rifles have been known to make use of this Mechanism as well, but it isn't very common as a general issue weapon when used in those sizes. Reloading is generally done by opening up a loading gate on the side of the cylinder, in which each round is ejected individually and reloaded individually. This type takes a full round action to fully reload, or a standard action to fill half way. Types in which the cylinder swings out or tips open for reloading can be reloaded completely as a standard action, or half way as a move action. A weapon with a Revolver Mechanism is considered a Simple Weapon.
Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 6
Cost: 20 GP
Repeating Action: A repeating action weapon is a weapon that can be fired quickly due to its simple and reliable operating mechanism, which is either lever action or pump action. A lever action mechanism is a system in which a lever is operated to eject a cartridge from the chamber, load a round into the chamber from the magazine, and ready the weapon for firing. A lever is worked by pulling it out, away from the grip, and back against the grip. A pump action is identical in operation, save for using a pump which is pumped forward then back to achieve the same result. Lever action is most commonly used in rifles and carbines, while pump action is normally used for shotguns. The magazine for this weapon type is usually a spring loaded tube running under the barrel, and can be completely reloaded as a full round action or loaded half way as a standard action. Other models may be fed from an internal box magazine, which can be reloaded as a standard action with a stripper clip, or a detachable box magazine, which can be reloaded as a move action. Repeating firearms are considered Simple Weapons.
Misfire: 1-2 | Capacity: 8
Cost: 30 GP
Bolt Action: Usually used only with rifles, the bolt action mechanism uses a cocking lever called a bolt to chamber ammunition and eject rounds from the chamber. In all cases the bolt lies atop the weapon, above the magazine, and the handle of the bolt hangs off to either the 3 position or the 9 position, depending on the dominate hand of the shooter. The bolt is brought up to the 12 position and pulled back, exposing the magazine for reloading and ejecting the round in the chamber when pulled all the way back. When pulled all the way back, the round in the chamber (if there is one) is ejected, and when pushed forward again a round from the magazine is scooped up and placed into the chamber. The bolt is then returned to its resting position and the weapon is ready to fire. Inserting bullets individually, a Bolt Action weapon can be completely reloaded as a full round action. With an internal magazine and a stripper clip, the weapon can be reloaded as a standard action. Using a detachable box magazine, this weapon can be reloaded as a move action. A Bolt Action firearm is considered a Martial Weapon.
Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 5
Cost: 35 GP
Semi Automatic: Depending on size, a semi-automatic weapon works in two ways: either through recoil, or by redirecting propellent gas into the weapon to operate the bolt. These weapons work like this: the bolt or slide (the action) is cocked back and released, chambering a round from the magazine. For recoil operated models, when the trigger is pulled and the weapon fires, the recoil of the bullet being fired forces the action back, ejecting the spent cartridge and scooping up a bullet from the magazine and into the chamber when the action returns to its resting position. A number of gas operation types exist, but they all work by redirecting propellent gasses that would otherwise escape out of the barrel, and shooting it back into the action, forcing it back, ejecting the spent cartridge, and scooping up a new one from the magazine when it returns forward. For handguns and the like, a recoil operated mechanism is the most common. For rifles and shotguns, gas operation is usually preferred. Most Semi Automatic weapons are fed from a detachable box magazine, which can be reloaded as a move action, but some use an internal box magazine or even a tube magazine (usually with shotguns). Reloading an internal box magazine with a clip is a standard action, but reloading an internal box magazine or tube magazine with individual bullets is a full round action to reload the weapon completely, or a standard action to reload it half way. A Semi Automatic firearm is considered a Martial Weapon.
Misfire: 1-2 | Capacity: 10
Cost: 50 GP
Full Automatic: Full Automatic weapons operate on a principle identical to that of a Semi Automatic, but are designed to fire continuously so long as the trigger is pressed. Some incorporate the feature to switch between semi-auto fire and fully automatic fire, and more advanced models even incorporate a burst mechanism to help control recoil, preserve accuracy, and conserve ammunition. These weapons have high capacity magazines, and are designed to spray an area in bullets rather than be the picture of marksmanship. Nomenclature varies depending on the Body Type and Ammo Type. A Holdout or Handgun that is a Full Automatic is referred to as a machine pistol. A Short or Long Gun firing Pistol or Revolver bullets is a submachine gun. Short Guns and Long Guns firing Intermediate bullets known as a storm rifle or assault rifle, and the same Body Types firing Rifle and Sniper Rifle bullets are called battle rifles. These weapons have only recently hit the battlefield, with the submachine gun being far more common than machine pistols, battle rifles being used as support weapons, and most storm rifles being experimental firearms that haven't reached any but the most elite soldiers on the battlefield. A Full Automatic firearm is considered an Exotic Weapon.
Misfire: 1-3 | Capacity: 30
Cost: 100 GP

And now, a revised list of sample firearms:
ONE HANDED
Derringer (Cost: 20 GP) Simple Weapon
Damage: 2d4 | Critical: x3 | Range: 20 ft | Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 2 | Type: Ballistic / B&P
Properties: +2 Sleight of Hand
Body: Holdout
Ammo: Pistol
Mechanism: Double Barrel
Revolver (Cost: 40 GP) Simple Weapon
Damage: 2d6 | Critical: x3 | Range: 30 ft | Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 6 | Type: Ballistic / B&P
Features: Loading Gate (Full reload full round action, half reload standard action)
Body: Handgun
Ammo: Revolver
Mechanism: Revolver
Autopistol (Cost: 65 GP) Martial Weapon
Damage: 2d4 | Critical: x3 | Range: 30 ft | Misfire: 1-2 | Capacity: 15 | Type: Ballistic / B&P
Features: Removable Box Magazine (Reloading is move action)
Body: Handgun
Ammo: Pistol
Mechanism: Semi Automatic

TWO HANDED
Turnbolt Rifle (Cost: 75 GP)
Damage: 2d10 | Critical: x4 | Range: 100 ft | Misfire: 1 | Capacity: 5 | Type: Ballistic / B&P
Features: Internal Box Magazine (Reloading with clip standard action, full reload full round action, half reload standard action)
Body: Long Gun
Ammo: Rifle
Mechanism: Bolt Action
Storm Rifle (Cost: 135 GP)
Damage: 2d8 | Critical: x3 | Range: 70 ft | Misfire: 1-3 | Capacity: 30 | Type: Ballistic / B&P
Features: Removable Box Magazine (Reloading is move action)
Properties: Can make autofire attacks (10 rounds expended)
Body: Short Gun
Ammo: Intermediate
Mechanism: Full Auto


Revised, featuring suggestions put forth by SkipSandwich. On the whole I like it this way a lot better. Later on I'm going to lay down some rules for accessories like scopes, bipods, extended magazines, and the like. If I picked a bunch of oopsie daisies somewhere let me know, and I'm always ready to steal listen to any good suggestions you make!

Amechra
2015-06-03, 02:16 PM
Is "Misfire" just "automatically fails on this number"? Because if not, I say BOO! BOO I say! Guns don't need to be whiffier than swords or axes, since they most likely do less damage.

If it is, though, I wish to express some joy at this. Is gut. Sehr Gut.

Anyway:

d20 Modern handles autofire with three feats: Automatic Weapon Proficiency, Burst Fire, and Strafe.

Autofire: Uses up 10 bullets; attacks everything in a 10' x 10' square, Reflex save to avoid the damage.
Burst Fire: Uses up 5 bullets; your attack roll takes a -4 penalty but you get 2 extra dice of damage. Guns with smaller burst setting can shoot that number of bullets instead.
Strafe: Lets you use Autofire on a 5' x 20' area.



An alternate way to handle autofire could be just representing covering fire. Basically, just "cover" an area with crossfire, and get an attack of opportunity against anyone dumb enough to try to cross it.

timkiller888
2015-06-03, 02:51 PM
Yes! Misfire means the gun jammed, the bullet went on vacation, or pretty much you done fudged up. I'm thinking of changing the attack penalty to a Strength check kinda thing for using large calibers in small guns. Like, if you have a certain Strength, you can fire these big bullets in the wee guns with no problem, but if not you have to hit a DC, and if you fail you break your wrist.

The main issue I'm seeing with automatic weapons (submachine guns, assault rifles) is balancing it out between the other weapon types. Like the misfire chance, I was thinking a 1-3 but that's almost a 20% chance of the weapon jamming and breaking, which is a pretty damn big chance. I think base capacity would be 20 or 30, and I'm thinking I might make a few more thingies for ammunition capacity for different sizes and mechanisms. I'll throw that around in my noggin for a bit before I make any definite changes.

The way I see it, you don't have to be trained to spray bullets all over the place. Shooting with accurate bursts, sure, but a feat to strafe an area with fire seems a bit obtuse to me. I guess it's supposed to represent a soldier trained to provide covering fire, but still, I think we can safely assume any moron can shoot a lot of bullets at a place.

On a separate note, I might make a similar list for blackpowder guns after all.



I think having a 1-2 misfire for semi-auto fire and a 1-3 or 1-4 for full auto/burst would be best.

SkipSandwich
2015-06-03, 06:58 PM
In True20, when making an autofire attack, for every 2 points you beat the target's AC, you increase the Toughness save DC to avoid damage by +1 (roughly the equivalent of adding +1d6 damage in standard 3.X rules).

Here I imagine it would be +1die of whatever ammo type, but weaker ammo types have lower recoil making it easier to land multiple hits.

+1die per 2 over AC for Pistol
+1die per 3 over AC for Revolver
+1die per 4 over AC for Repeater/+2die per 4 over for Shotgun
+1die per 5 over AC for Rifle
+1die per 6 over AC for Sniper Rifle

Holdout body -4 to attack rolls when making autofire attacks
Handgun body -2 to attack rolls when making autofire attacks
Shortgun body no autofire modifier
Longgun body +2 to attack rolls when making autofire attacks

numbers adjustable to taste

:EDIT: added additional rules about autofire attacks, ammo consumed and representing weapons with exceptionally high rate-of-fire

Autofire attacks normally consume 10 bullets per attack, and may add a maximum of +5 dice of damage
Advanced Firearms Proficiency reduces the ammo consumed when making autofire attacks by half.

Attempting an autofire attack with less then 10 (5 with feat) bullets in the chamber reduces the number of bonus dice by 1 per missing bullet.

When attacking an area, instead of dealing bonus damage you deal the weapon's base damage + enhancements to all in 4 contiguous 5ft squares. Targets may attempt a reflex save (DC = your attack roll) for half damage.

Some weapons have a truly stupendous rate of fire of a thousand rounds per minute or more. These Turbofire weapons follow all the normal rules except they consume 10 times as many bullets per attack, deal +2 dice of damage/x over AC (max+10 dice) and can be used attack an area measured by 4 contiguous 10ft squares.

Not enough Dakka? Ultrafire weapons consume 100x the ammunition per action as normal, deal +3 dice of damage/x over AC(max +15dice) and attack an area measured by 4 contiguous 20ft squares.

timkiller888
2015-06-04, 02:12 AM
I'll put those insane autofire rules to work sometime here soon. Thinking I'm gonna expand the weapon generation with support-type weapons, like machine guns and all that jazz. Don't think I'm gonna tackle siege-type weapons (howitzers, autocannons, ect...), at least not for a while, but maybe grenade and rocket launchers.

I also want to do a blackpowder type section, focusing on smoothbore, rifled, and pepperbox type pistoles/muskets/blunderbusses, for those savages that don't like cartridge guns.