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Hellborn_Blight
2015-06-05, 11:36 AM
The following are some changes to the game that I think would really make the monk class a little more viable, and a lot sexier.

But first...

The Unarmed Adaption for Swordsage Gains proficiency with Monk weapons and learns 2 fewer maneuvers at level one to gain the Monks Unarmed Strike ability. He retains his ability to wear armor, but does not learn a maneuver at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20. This helps keep him different from the Monk, but still lets him become a very powerful unarmed martial artist. Maybe. I don't want to steal Monks thunder here. It's really about them, but I have seen the adaption, and like the idea of it, but think maybe it should go the other way. More on that latter.

Intuitive attack is no longer an exalted feat. There are wise, evil lawful people too. This never should have been an exalted feat.

Weapon Enchantment Greater Ki Focus [Synergy] +1 (prereq is a Ki Focus weapon)
Gain two additional uses of stunning attacks made with the weapon per day. In addition, the save DC of any stunning attack, or quivering Palm attack preformed by the weapon increases by an amount equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus. This ability is structured similarly to the Assassination (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a) weapon enchantment, but is a synergy for balance.

Unarmed Strike Weapons

New class of Monk weapon that increases unarmed strike damage. They are exotic weapons that have the prereq of having Improved Unarmed Strike to use, except for the Monk (and possibly the Unarmed Adaption of Swordsage), for which they are monk weapons. All Unarmed Strike Weapon attacks are considered unarmed strikes for the characters that use them, but are also manufactured weapons. For the purposes of the Discipline Focus ability, feat use, attack qualification, and any other effect that would require an unarmed strike, the Unarmed Strike Weapons count as such. For any effect requiring a manufactured weapon, an Unarmed Strike Weapon counts as such. In the hands of a character that takes the weapon focus feat for one of the Unarmed Strike Weapons (not for unarmed strike mind you) and has advanced unarmed damage, such as a Monk or a character with the Superior Unarmed Strike Feat, the character deals damage as if four levels higher, except where noted. This effect will stack with Superior Unarmed Strike for Monks (and, once again, possibly the Unarmed Adaption of Swordsage). Any Weapon Focus Feat for an Unarmed Strike Weapon counts as weapon focus unarmed strike for prereqs and all other relevant effects. You can only gain the benefits from one weapon focus, or weapon specialization feat or their greater counter parts at a time. In other words, Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, and Weapon Focus Katar would not stack. Unarmed strike weapons allow you to two weapon fight with your unarmed strike, as long as you wield two of them. Multi-weapon fighting is also possible, but you must have an appropriate number of weapons to match the attacks (an Athach would need 3, a Maralith would need 6, etc.).

Kempo Gloves 1d8 20x2 B, +4 on resisting grapple checks, can't be disarmed, can grasp with hands
Plate Cestus 1d8 20x2 B, +1 on DC of Stunning Fist Attacks, can't be disarmed, can grasp with hands
Spiked Cestus 1d8 19-20x2 P, Can't be Disarmed, can grasp with hands
Bladed Cestus 1d8 S 19-20x2, Can't be Disarmed, can grasp with hands
Katar 1d8/1d6* 20x3 P/S* Is a held Weapon
Curved Katar 1d6*/1d8 18-20x2 P*/S Is a held weapon

*This damage type is not an unarmed strike, and is instead considered a light weapon attack. It is still a Monk weapon.

Ki straps adaption.

Ki straps may be utilized as weapon modifications on Unarmed Strike weapons as either part of the grip or lacing, but cost an additional use of stunning fist to use. Alternately they could just have 3 charges renewable at dawn. Either seems fine for the slot trade off. Obviously the Katars can avoid this, but can also take advantage of it as well.


Then there are the fighting styles. These adaptions make the Monk mostly a martial adept. The progression is slower, the knowledge lesser, but the martial artist flavor is in full flurry. It does so mostly at the cost of the silly, non-useful abilities of a monk, but also costs their bonus feats, improved evasion, and their immunities. 12 levels that are different it is a pretty big change, but I think these guys look way more like Monks than the crappy amalgam that was that base class.

New Monk Fighting styles

These fighting styles replace the normal benefits of a Monk at the given levels.

The Desert Wind Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Desert Wind Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain Flame’s Blessing Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain Holocaust Cloak Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Fiery Assault Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Desert Wind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Rising Phoenix Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Inferno Blast maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Desert Wind maneuver for any one Desert Wind maneuver you qualify for.

The Diamond Mind Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Diamond Mind Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain the Stance of Clarity Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain the Pearl of Black Doubt Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Hearing the Air Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Diamond Mind maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Stance of Alacrity Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Time Stands Still maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Diamond Mind maneuver for any one Diamond Mind maneuver you qualify for.


The Setting Sun Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Setting Sun Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain the Step of the Wind Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain the Giant Killing Style Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Shifting Defense Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Setting Sun maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Ghostly Defense Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Tornado Throw maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Setting Sun maneuver for any one Setting Sun maneuver you qualify for.


The Shadow Hand Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Shadow Hand Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain either the Child of Shadow Stance or the Island of Blades Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain either the Assassin’s Stance or the Dance of the Spider Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Step of the Dancing Moth Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Shadow Hand maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Balance on the Sky Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Shadow Hand maneuver for any one Shadow Hand maneuver you qualify for.

The Stone Dragon Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Stone Dragon Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain the Stonefoot Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Stone Dragon of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Stone Dragon of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain either the Crushing Weight of the Mountain Stance or the Roots of the Mountain Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Stone Dragon maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Stone Dragon maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Stone Dragon maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Giant’s Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Stone Dragon maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Strength of Stone Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Mountain Tombstone Strike maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Stone Dragon maneuver for any one Stone Dragon maneuver you qualify for.

The Tiger Claw Monk.
1st level, lose Bonus feat, gain a level 1 Tiger Claw Maneuver You are treated as an initiator of a level equal to your base attack bonus +1, up to a maximum of your Monk level. You may ready a number of maneuvers equal to your monk level divided by 3, +1. You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full-round action to quickly meditate.
2nd level, lose bonus feat, gain either the Blood in the Water Stance or the Hunter’s Sense Stance.
3rd level lose still mind, gain a Tiger Claw of your choice that you qualify for.
6th level lose Bonus feat, gain a Tiger Claw of your choice that you qualify for.
7th level lose wholeness of body, gain either the Leaping Dragon Stance or the Wolverine Stance.
9th level lose improved evasion, gain a Tiger Claw maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
11th Level lose Diamond Body, gain a Tiger Claw maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
12th level lose Abundant Step, slow fall is now capped at 60ft, Gain a Stone Dragon maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
14th level gain the Prey on the Weak Stance.
17th level Lose Tongue of the sun and Moon, gain a Tiger Claw maneuver of your choice that you qualify for.
18th level gain the Wolf Pack Tactics Stance.
20th level lose Perfect self, gain the Feral Death Blow maneuver


At levels 6, 11, 14 and 19, you may exchange any known Tiger Claw maneuver for any one Tiger Claw maneuver you qualify for.

Essentially, they are all the same but with a different style, but the callouts for the stances makes it easier to just have them all be listed in separate entries.


Concerns: TWF balance is a concern. I have made 1d8 light weapons, that can power attack. And this lets Flurry and TWF stack, but the Scorpion kama did that anyway. A 2 feat restriction should be enough to keep it fair, though dipping one monk/swordsage makes that meaningless, and everybody else gets their new toys. Or just be a fighter and take them as feats. By level 6 A Human fighter could be getting 4 attacks with a 1d8+2 damage weapon, at a 5/5/0/0 attack bonus with no ability mod, whereas the poor monk is getting 2 attacks with a 2d6 damage weapon at a 4/4 bonus with no ability mod. When the fighter is beating you at your own game, something might be off. The maneuvers aren't nothing obviously, but low BAB sucks...

The Ki Strap adaption is because most of the weapons are gloves. While I can see the ruling that one is a weapon, and being held, and one is a hand slot item, to remove confusion and potential loss of one of the best DC increasing items, wanted to add something. Feels janky though.

On unarmed strike weapons, I couldn't think of any...non-hand based weapons for unarmed strikes. At least none that didn't scream BS at me. I know there are some in Complete Scoundrel, but they aren't Monk weapons, and real world precedent is quite low. If anyone has some practical examples, even if they were not used by martial artists necessarily, shoot them my way.

The levels the fighting style Monks can trade out maneuvers may seem random, but they are levels they attain a new plateau for initiator level. I did not however run through available maneuvers for each level, to make sure it was possible and no non choices cropped up. However, they only learn a maximum of 8 maneuvers, including the cap, without taking feats and all styles have well more than that.

Hellborn_Blight
2015-06-05, 09:48 PM
I'm guess as 3.5's biggest dunce of design, the Monk has probably been a common target for overhauls over the years. But I'm still relatively new here, so I haven't seen a whole lot of material on the subject. I am looking for a critique if nothing else. I've spent a fair amount of time on these adaptions and new content, but as I'm too close to it as its creator, I'm looking to see how balanced my ideas are, what could be adjusted, that sort of thing. Feed back is appreciated.


So as my head hit the pillow earlier, two other ides jumped into my head.

Two class features that are supposed to represent a monks speed in battle don't do their job properly. Flurry of Blows allows you to attack with great speed, but costs you accuracy. Why? Punching swiftly, for the practiced martial artist is cost no accuracy whatsoever. In fact, if you strike fast enough, you are more likely to hit because it will be harder to dodge. So I propose Flurry has no Attack penalty, and instead steadily gains attack bonus. At levels 5, 9,13 and 17 your base attack bonus increases by 1 when you flurry. This will end in a Flurry Attack that looks like 19/19/19/14/9/4. If you want Monks to have the fastest, deadliest hands in town, this is how you do it.

Then there is fast movement. This is supposed to represent movement speed increase, but because of the action economy, it really just gives them an unnecessarily high movement speed, that serves little to no tactile use. If you want to give them a speed increase that is really relevant, and possibly do something unique and awesome, then slowly tick up the amount they can move as a five foot step. There are a couple of different ways you can handle this. You can either give them the speed increase and at every 4 levels increase the five foot step by five feat, or just replace each fast movement increase with a five foot increase to to five foot step.

I believe changing these two class features gives them a real ownership of speed in the game, as opposed to a superficial one. I also realize they are powerful changes though, and wonder if it makes Monks too good compared to their peers.

OttoVonBigby
2015-06-06, 08:37 AM
Much of what you have done here is similar to my own monk overhaul, which was in turn largely inspired by diligent combing of this forum.

In my case I straight-up gave the monk the disciplines, and the entire maneuver/stance progression, of the swordsage, then banned the swordsage. (I don't like classes whose feel/archetype is purely mechanical, as the ToB classes' are. "Monk" has mythic symbolism, quasi-historical resonance; "unarmed swordsage" doesn't. That's also why I gave warblade stuff to my knight and crusader stuff to my paladin.) I don't feel that this makes monks overpowered, at least in comparison to the other martial class changes I've made, but YMMV. I also gave them the swordsage quick to act, sense magic, and evasion/improved evasion features.

I dropped flurry of blows entirely. I figured with all the maneuver options I gave them, someone who wants the "fastest fists in town" build should be able to achieve it through other means. I kept most of the other PHB monk stuff (still mind, slow fall, etc.), with some adjustments. I kept the PHB monk's saves, too.

I also integrated something similar to your unarmed/weapon damage fusion thing, but in the form of a feat which counts as one of my monk's (few) bonus feats--my rationale being that certain monks might really want to eschew weapons. So to a great extent, my monk re-do was about options, because two players picking the monk class may want very different monk flavors, and I wanted to both boost the class's overall efficacy AND make it possible to go in a preferred direction with your PC's style.


Then there is fast movement. This is supposed to represent movement speed increase, but because of the action economy, it really just gives them an unnecessarily high movement speed, that serves little to no tactile use. If you want to give them a speed increase that is really relevant, and possibly do something unique and awesome, then slowly tick up the amount they can move as a five foot step. There are a couple of different ways you can handle this. You can either give them the speed increase and at every 4 levels increase the five foot step by five feat, or just replace each fast movement increase with a five foot increase to to five foot step.
That might be better than the existing fast movement class feature; it certainly feels more monk-y. I can't help but wonder if it's TOO powerful...maybe someone else has used a similar class feature and can speak to that.