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Steampunkette
2015-06-11, 02:32 AM
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the Psychic Warrior should be a Warlock Subclass. Like Fiend, Fey, or Old One it should increase the options of the class, slightly, while retaining the quickly recharging casting system, at-will invocation powers, and the slight gishiness of the class. So I'm just going to spitball some design ideas.

Psychic Warrior
Where the psion spends his days studying the intricacies of psionic power and unlocking the mysteries of the mind, others choose to use their internal power to augment their physical form. These psychic warriors use their psionic potential as a way to improve their natural abilities, becoming fierce and deadly in their chosen path. The may bind their mind to that of an ancient aberration, a psionic crystal, or a being from beyond the stars. Or they may simply call on the wellspring of power within themself.

Expanded Spell List
1 Jump, Thunderwave
2 Detect Thoughts, Levitate
3 Clairvoyance, Slow
4 Arcane Eye, Fire Shield
5 Animate Objects, Modify Memory

Prepared for Battle
At level 1 the Psychic Warrior gains proficiency in Medium Armor and 3 Martial Weapons of your choice.
Compare to all languages, temporary HP on kill, and the ability to charm or frighten nearby enemies.

Telekinetic Parry
As a level 6 Psychic Warrior you may use your reaction to attempt to parry an incoming weapon or targeted spell attack with a well timed burst of telekinetic force. When you are attacked, but before damage is rolled, you may roll an opposed attack roll, if you have a weapon readied you may use that weapon's attack roll. On a success, the attack instead damages the original attacker or another target within 5 feet of yourself or the attacker.
Compare to Invisible Teleport, +1d10 to saving throws and skill checks, and imposing disadvantage to gain advantage as a reaction.

Mind Bullet
At 10th level Psychic Warriors who take the attack action may, as a bonus action, launch a Mind Bullet at a target within range. This functions as a single-beam casting of the Eldritch Blast power. Any invocations the Psychic Warrior knows are applied to this beam.
Compare to Resistance to one damage type (changing by the day), Immunity to Charm and the ability to redirect Charm effects, and immunity to mind reading with psychic resistance and the rider that psychic attacks deal equal damage to the attacker.

Psychic Scream
At level 14 the Psychic Warrior gains the ability to unleash a powerful psychic scream. Enemy Creatures within 25 feet of the Psychic Warrior must make an Intelligence Saving Throw or take 2d10 psychic damage and have disadvantage on all checks during their next turn. On a success they take half damage and have disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than the Psychic Warrior. A Psychic Warrior regains the use of this ability after a short or long rest.
Compare to 10d10 no save and removed from combat for 1 turn on a long rest, 1 minute long with save charm/fear on concentration on a short or long rest, or permanent charm.

Steampunkette
2015-06-11, 02:48 AM
Telekinetic Parry is the one I'm most concerned over. I think maybe I should limit it to charisma modifier per short rest?

A level 13 Psychic Warrior who has a +5 Strength mod and +5 proficiency fighting a Storm Giant is at a +10 to +12 (depending on magic weapon availability) to make an opposed attack roll. The Storm Giant, on the other hand, has a +14 to attack to begin with.

In a straight up opposed attack roll that's a 10-20% margin of error in favor of the giant on any given roll for the Psychic Warrior to waste their reaction. I think that might be valid... But the damage of the attack is 6d6+9 to the giant on a reaction. Admittedly, this is a hedge case in which the damage would be fairly high compared to, say, parrying an Oathbreaker's attack before Smite is declared (since only after the hit is resolved is the Smite expended and damage for it is rolled). Same thing for Battle Master and the like.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it?

Fyndhal
2015-06-11, 07:48 AM
Telekinetic Parry is much stronger than the other level 6 abilities, if only because each of them is only once per Rest and the Parry has no such limitation. If you add that limitation, it is a bit on the weak side, since it has a significant chance of failure.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that the Psychic Warrior should be its own class rather than a sub-class of one of the existing classes. The idea behind the class has enough unique things going for it that trying to shoehorn it into another class structure is a disservice.

Ralanr
2015-06-11, 02:02 PM
I think mind bullet is pointless. You already have Eldrich blast, why have an ability that basically does Eldrich blast as your action?

Otherwise I don't see a problem. Smart that you put the comparisons after each ability.

Wartex1
2015-06-11, 02:09 PM
I think mind bullet is pointless. You already have Eldrich blast, why have an ability that basically does Eldrich blast as your action?

Otherwise I don't see a problem. Smart that you put the comparisons after each ability.

It's a bonus action that you can take after taking the Attack Action.

Ralanr
2015-06-11, 03:05 PM
It's a bonus action that you can take after taking the Attack Action.

Oh. I read it as an attack action. My bad.

Steampunkette
2015-06-11, 04:27 PM
Do you guys think I should limit the retaliation parry to cha mod per short rest? Fyndhal seems to think it is OP and I kind of agree...

What if it negated the damage and dealt cha mod to the attacker? Or halved the damage between the Psychic Warrior and attacker?

Ralanr
2015-06-11, 04:54 PM
Do you guys think I should limit the retaliation parry to cha mod per short rest? Fyndhal seems to think it is OP and I kind of agree...

What if it negated the damage and dealt cha mod to the attacker? Or halved the damage between the Psychic Warrior and attacker?

Do that and run a few simulations. All you need is the MM, even the basic pdf will work.

Steampunkette
2015-06-19, 06:47 PM
Another suggestion: Use the Spell Point System. It does make them a lot more flexible, in that they can focus on lower level spells for a larger number of spells cast, though. Though if you do I seriously suggest using an alternate "Psionic Powers List" instead of the standard Warlock list, to narrow down overall power and add noncombat options and movement options as the central pillars.

Level Spell Points
1 1
2 2
3 6
4 6
5 10
6 10
7 12
8 12
9 14
10 14
11 14
12 14
13 14
14 14
15 14
16 14
17 21
18 21
19 21
20 21

Submortimer
2015-06-19, 08:33 PM
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the Psychic Warrior should be a Warlock Subclass. Like Fiend, Fey, or Old One it should increase the options of the class, slightly, while retaining the quickly recharging casting system, at-will invocation powers, and the slight gishiness of the class. So I'm just going to spitball some design ideas.


Agreed, and you beat me to it :smallsmile:




Expanded Spell List
1 Jump, Thunderwave
2 Detect Thoughts, Levitate
3 Clairvoyance, Slow
4 Arcane Eye, Fire Shield
5 Animate Objects, Modify Memory


I feel like Jump shouldn't be on here, since you can pick up an invocation that lets you do it at will. I'd replace it with Shield. Same with Levitate, Slow and arcane eye: Swap those for Enhance Ability, Haste and Freedom of Movement: psychic warrior should be about boosting yourself with psychic power, not about debuffing others. Lastly, straight up drop Modify Memory for Telekinesis: yeah, it's on the GoO spell list, but who cares, this is the Psychic warrior.



Prepared for Battle
At level 1 the Psychic Warrior gains proficiency in Medium Armor and 3 Martial Weapons of your choice.
Compare to all languages, temporary HP on kill, and the ability to charm or frighten nearby enemies.

Maybe add shields in? I don't feel like that would be too unbalancing, and i'd assume that any warlock going with psychic warrior would pick Bladelock, which renders the weapon proficiency kinda pointless.


Telekinetic Parry
As a level 6 Psychic Warrior you may use your reaction to attempt to parry an incoming weapon or targeted spell attack with a well timed burst of telekinetic force. When you are attacked, but before damage is rolled, you may roll an opposed attack roll, if you have a weapon readied you may use that weapon's attack roll. On a success, the attack instead damages the original attacker or another target within 5 feet of yourself or the attacker.
Compare to Invisible Teleport, +1d10 to saving throws and skill checks, and imposing disadvantage to gain advantage as a reaction.

Personally, i'd do it as a 1/short rest "reflect an attack":
- As a level 6 Psychic Warrior you may use your reaction to reflect an incoming weapon or targeted spell attack with a well timed burst of telekinetic force. When you are hit with an attack, but before damage is rolled, you may use your reaction to deflect that attack. The attack instead damages the original attacker or another target within 5 feet of yourself or the attacker. After you use this ability, you must take a short or long rest before you can use it again.


Mind Bullet
At 10th level Psychic Warriors who take the attack action may, as a bonus action, launch a Mind Bullet at a target within range. This functions as a single-beam casting of the Eldritch Blast power. Any invocations the Psychic Warrior knows are applied to this beam.
Compare to Resistance to one damage type (changing by the day), Immunity to Charm and the ability to redirect Charm effects, and immunity to mind reading with psychic resistance and the rider that psychic attacks deal equal damage to the attacker.

I kinda get what you're going for here, but warlocks can already kill a yak from over 200 yards away, without having to resort to mind bullets. That's telekinesis, Kyle.

But seriously, this should be some sort of defensive ability. Maybe something like a shell of temp HP that he automatically gets on a short rest.
Psychic Aegis
- at 10th level, a psychic warrior learns to craft a shell of telekinetic force around himself. Following a short or long rest, he gains temp HP equal to twice his warlock level. Additionally, any spells or abilities that grant the psychic warrior temp hp may now stack, but may not go above a maximum of 5+ twice his warlock level. Abilities that are dependant on Temp HP (such as armor of Agathys) work off his total temp hp pool.


Psychic Scream
At level 14 the Psychic Warrior gains the ability to unleash a powerful psychic scream. Enemy Creatures within 25 feet of the Psychic Warrior must make an Intelligence Saving Throw or take 2d10 psychic damage and have disadvantage on all checks during their next turn. On a success they take half damage and have disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than the Psychic Warrior. A Psychic Warrior regains the use of this ability after a short or long rest.
Compare to 10d10 no save and removed from combat for 1 turn on a long rest, 1 minute long with save charm/fear on concentration on a short or long rest, or permanent charm.

I might be tempted to up the damage a little, maybe to 4d10, but it's a pretty soild ability.

this is all just my two coppers. Great job overall!

Submortimer
2015-06-19, 11:17 PM
Just had a thought: wouldn't a psychic Warrior Warlock be a Psylocke?

http://www.sowhowins.com/Character%20Pictures/psylocke.jpg


Just sayin :smallsmile:

Steampunkette
2015-06-20, 01:18 AM
The Mind Bullet ability is actually there to give them a very nice offhand attack and reinforce the gishiness. Where an EK can cast a full cantrip and then swing, these guys can swing, twice, and throw off one fourth of a cantrip.

And yes. Psylocke is actually an archetypal example of a Soulknife style psychic warrior.

eleazzaar
2015-06-20, 08:27 AM
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the Psychic Warrior should be a Warlock Subclass. Like Fiend, Fey, or Old One it should increase the options of the class, slightly, while retaining the quickly recharging casting system, at-will invocation powers, and the slight gishiness of the class.

I think a warlock-like chassis makes sense, but there's too much stuff in the warlock class outside the archetype that doesn't fit.

Steampunkette
2015-06-20, 08:56 AM
Maybe... But most of that stuff can be reflavored.

Pact of the Tome can be reflavored into a Psi Crystal with Rituals as Meditation. Meanwhile the Pact of the Chain could result in an ectoplasmic projected creature from the recesses of the Psionic Warrior's mind.

Looking through the invocations I can't see anything that wouldn't fit. Even Devil's Sight works if you use it as some kind of ESP ability that ignores magical darkness. Gaze of Two Minds is especially thematic, as it essentially allows you to look into someone else's head and see what they're seeing.

As for the "Patron" itself, just ignore it. That's fluff around the actual mechanics that doesn't -really- matter, in the end.

What is it that you feel is too far out of place?

eleazzaar
2015-06-20, 10:27 AM
Maybe... But most of that stuff can be reflavored.

Pact of the Tome can be reflavored into a Psi Crystal with Rituals as Meditation. Meanwhile the Pact of the Chain could result in an ectoplasmic projected creature from the recesses of the Psionic Warrior's mind.


Where the psion spends his days studying the intricacies of psionic power and unlocking the mysteries of the mind, others choose to use their internal power to augment their physical form.

The bolded part is to me the core of the psychic warrior (being only familiar with the 3.5 version.)

Pact of Chain and Tome no matter how you refluff still aren't part of that concept. Pact of the Blade works fine though.

The 3.5 PW powers list literally is things that only change itself. If you go by that, the majority of the warlock spell list is wrong. A high level PW shouldn't be casting 9th level warlock spells. It is more like a half-caster class. And while the old PW had a d8 HD, there's been some HD inflation, I think it would be a d10 in 5e.

Steampunkette
2015-06-20, 05:47 PM
Most of the high end Warlock spells fit the Psychic Warrior just fine, though. Astral Projection, Foresight, Power Words Kill and Stun. Feeblemind and Glibness. Dominate Monster. Even True Polymorph to cast on themselves to create powerful "Combat Forms"

And all of them are once per day.

As for augmenting their physical form there's Blade Ward, Armor of Agathys, Protection from Good/Evil, Spider Climb, Flight, and Vampiric Touch for their spells themselves while their Invocations (arguably a better example) include Armor of Shadows, Ascendant Step, Beguiling Influence, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper, Fiendish Vigor, Lifedrinker, Mask of Many Faces/Forms, One with Shadows, Otherworldly Leap, Sculptor of Flesh, Thirsting Blade, and Witch Sight. All of which either change what the Psionic Warrior themself can do permanently (giving them better senses) or allowing them to leap or climb or shapechange themselves. Even increase their hit points with ablation in temp HP.

Though there are, also, Psionic Power Lists floating around. I just haven't taken the time to -really- dig into them and pick one that fits, so far.

Amnoriath
2015-06-21, 06:31 PM
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the Psychic Warrior should be a Warlock Subclass. Like Fiend, Fey, or Old One it should increase the options of the class, slightly, while retaining the quickly recharging casting system, at-will invocation powers, and the slight gishiness of the class. So I'm just going to spitball some design ideas.

Psychic Warrior
Where the psion spends his days studying the intricacies of psionic power and unlocking the mysteries of the mind, others choose to use their internal power to augment their physical form. These psychic warriors use their psionic potential as a way to improve their natural abilities, becoming fierce and deadly in their chosen path. The may bind their mind to that of an ancient aberration, a psionic crystal, or a being from beyond the stars. Or they may simply call on the wellspring of power within themself.

Expanded Spell List
1 Jump, Thunderwave
2 Detect Thoughts, Levitate
3 Clairvoyance, Slow
4 Arcane Eye, Fire Shield
5 Animate Objects, Modify Memory

Prepared for Battle
At level 1 the Psychic Warrior gains proficiency in Medium Armor and 3 Martial Weapons of your choice.
Compare to all languages, temporary HP on kill, and the ability to charm or frighten nearby enemies.

Telekinetic Parry
As a level 6 Psychic Warrior you may use your reaction to attempt to parry an incoming weapon or targeted spell attack with a well timed burst of telekinetic force. When you are attacked, but before damage is rolled, you may roll an opposed attack roll, if you have a weapon readied you may use that weapon's attack roll. On a success, the attack instead damages the original attacker or another target within 5 feet of yourself or the attacker.
Compare to Invisible Teleport, +1d10 to saving throws and skill checks, and imposing disadvantage to gain advantage as a reaction.

Mind Bullet
At 10th level Psychic Warriors who take the attack action may, as a bonus action, launch a Mind Bullet at a target within range. This functions as a single-beam casting of the Eldritch Blast power. Any invocations the Psychic Warrior knows are applied to this beam.
Compare to Resistance to one damage type (changing by the day), Immunity to Charm and the ability to redirect Charm effects, and immunity to mind reading with psychic resistance and the rider that psychic attacks deal equal damage to the attacker.

Psychic Scream
At level 14 the Psychic Warrior gains the ability to unleash a powerful psychic scream. Enemy Creatures within 25 feet of the Psychic Warrior must make an Intelligence Saving Throw or take 2d10 psychic damage and have disadvantage on all checks during their next turn. On a success they take half damage and have disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than the Psychic Warrior. A Psychic Warrior regains the use of this ability after a short or long rest.
Compare to 10d10 no save and removed from combat for 1 turn on a long rest, 1 minute long with save charm/fear on concentration on a short or long rest, or permanent charm.

1. If anything it is underwhelming but makes sense.
2. All abilities there are once per short rest so this must change.
3. Its all right but preferable as a gish type you need some more survivability. Traditionally at this point some form of utility has come up.
4. "1 minute long with save charm/fear on concentration on a short or long rest" It is actually once per long rest you are thinking of their 1st level power. As for the ability itself it really doesn't have a lesser effect if they fail they get a small amount of damage and hinders ability checks if they succeed they take a little less damage but hinders all attacks except for you.