PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Psionics, a homebrew system.



Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:18 AM
A General Overview

Psionics, what are they? Psionics are the magic of the mind. They are literally imagination made reality, psychic energy given power and form by the will of the manifester. Introduced in 1st edition in form of the core alternate class features (if you had high enough mental scores, you could get psionic powers) and later as the unofficial class, the Pscionist as an alternative to the arcane and divine magics of the time, psionics have gone through multiple changes. While in 1st edition they were more of a limited mage with some rather decent ability to master weapons, wear armor and otherwise mix it up in melee and survive, 2nd edition psionics were pulled out of core and made into their own system, where they were expanded and divided up into multiple disciplines, much like arcane magic, and then given their own rulebook. We had the mind-****er (telepath), the reality smith (shaper), the energy manipulator (kineticist), the self-buffing body manipulator (egoist), the reality jumper (nomad), the manipulator of probability (oracle) and the game-breaking psionics manipulator (metapsionics).

And they were completely overpowered. Partially because psionics and magic were completely separate, making it impossible for the more standard magics to actually counter psionics while the later had multiple trump cards to pull over on poor arcane and divine users, and partially because dear sweet god nothing saved you from its effects. A psionicist points, and unless you had power resistance you DIE!!!!!

But moving on from that, psionics have shown themselves in every edition of D&D since. In 3rd edition they returned, and by all of the gods were they glorious. Well, the 3.5 version at the very least. Those who had played in with Psionics in 2e cringed quite a bit at the announcement and decried it before release, horrors of the past still fresh in their minds. And... with the introduction again in 3.0 they were proven partially correct. However, psionics were not so much broken as they were confusing, with attack and defense modes still in play, and the DC's for powers of different disciplines scaling off of different ability scores, psionics were sort of... meh? Still lacking any semblance of transparency, psionics were still considered broken (in an, 'only partially works' way) and overpowered by many, and seemed to be more tacked on to the system than part of it

However, with the re-introduction of psionics in 3.5, such outcry was proven to be completely unfounded. In the later half of 3rd edition, psionics were integrated and perfectly folded into the system, with multiple rather unique base and prestige classes, transparency between psionics and regular magic (allowing them to perfectly counter each other), feats, powers and subsystems that were shockingly well balanced within the system. Now, the most important things were actually the subsystems, and while I'll cover the classes briefly, I would like to take a more in-depth look at the larger innovations.

The first subsystem was power points, which basically allowed the psion (and other psionic classes) to "purchase" their psionic powers (basically spells). The unique thing about this is that it allowed psionic classes to scale their abilities based on how many resources they wanted to spend on them at any one time, much like the spell system in 5e. However, psionics in 3e scaled completely slotlessly, allowing them to purchase as many level 1 or level 9 powers as they has power points for. Obviously in 5e, this would not work... but this was such an innovative system that they already ported a semblance of it into 5e. From the base game, spells scale by the level they are cast at instead of the level of the caster themselves, but far closer to a direct port is the spell point system in the 5e DMG. An incredibly versatile and useful system.

The second subsystem is Psionic Focus. Now psionic focus is sort of unique in D&D land, with not much else being similar. Psionic focus by itself didn't have any true purpose in 3.0/ 3.5, but it was used as the gateway for metapsionics (the metamagic of psionics) and feats that would help preserve/ give bonuses as long as you maintained your psionic focus. In Pathfinder, the different disciplines were able to gain different varieties of passive and active bonuses for maintaining/ expending their psionic focus. This served as a limiting and empowering factor for psionic classes, since it prevented chaining metapsionic abilities and helped keep other resources and builds in constant balance with one another as a risk-reward type system.

Onto classes. Because this is 3.P we are talking about, there were quite a few classes and prestige classes that popped up in its reign. The more notable ones will be listed here.

First, there was the psionicist, or as it was known in 3.x on the Psion. The same class from so many editions previous, the Psion is by and far the first thing people think of when they hear psionics in D&D. The most flexible, well-thought-out, and most would say powerful of the psionic base classes, the psion is often compared (rightly or wrongly) to the sorcerer and wizard as far as their raw power and position in the psionic system is concerned. The psion was the only class that could truly specialize in one of the psionic disciplines, allowing them to access unique powers for that discipline that others could only obtain through the use of one of their limited feats. This gave the Psion a degree of specialization, but left them open to a very generous and useful generalist list of powers to tap into. The 5e version of this can be found below.

Next was the almost as successful Psionic Warrior, who was a very competent gish who fit solidly into the third tier of the 3.P "tiers" system. Betrayed only by their somewhat-low BAB, the psionic warrior focused on self-buffing, some healing, and gained unique powers that assisted them in melee or ranged dominance, giving them an incredibly unique identity among the psionic and martial classes. The closest comparison they had to the "base" classes was the Paladin, who fit into the same 1/2 caster niche that the psi-war slipped into, but in a far more clunky and less useful way. However, since the paladin in 5e is incredibly competent, a 5e port for the psi-war could use it as a chassis...

In a much less triumphant manner, we come to the Wilder. Now don't get me wrong, Wilders could be very powerful blasters, healers, controllers or buffers... however, their ability to do any one of these tasks was severely hampered by the absolute lack of powers they could know at any given time, let alone performing any two of them at the same time. Because of this, they are often compared to a sorcerer... but only if the sorcerer's legs were cut off at the knee, and then the sorcerer was voluntarily lobotomized. It wasn't exactly worthy of a full-on port by itself, but given how they were able to manipulate metapsionics, and given how the 5e sorc is the only one with metamagic... I think that a psionic sorcerer bloodline could fit in here.

Next was the soulknife, which much like the wilder was infamous for being a good idea poorly executed. There are about 50,000,000,000 "fixes" for it that can attest to that fact. The soul knife just never had enough of a solid chassis to launch itself from, and didn't even have full BAB progression in 3.5 despite being a purely martial class with some supernatural flavoring. As the soulknife was never really a true manifester, but more of a psionic potential that was able to forge their own weapon with their mind, they were often compared to fighters. And this probably works rather well for them in a 5e port, as 5e fighters are sort of awesome, and can totally use the abilities a soul knife has to offer.

Finally, from 3.5, we have the Skulk. Now the skulk wasn't really talked about all that much, seeing as it was basically a rogue with ACF's that give it minor manifesting capabilities instead of full sneak attack progression. And yet, it was decently good at its job. Returning it in 5e means that it should likely return as a rogue subclass, as that's basically what it was already in 3.5.

Worth mentioning, the Pathfinder system went out of its way to expand and re-balance psionics even more, and there are a busload of base classes there. All of these can be ported in as subclasses, giving me a more solid work base to grant each of the existing classes a way to becoming psionic, and PrC's can fit the rest.

I am going on and on about 3.P for so long because that is the most direct system port I can think of, and it is also where I will be drawing the strongest inspiration from. However, there is another edition where they appeared in, even if most people on this board do not wish to speak of it.

4e still had psionics, and while they could still do a wide range of things and had dozens of higher-level paragon paths and a handful of base classes, the most famous one remains the psion. Now I will be the first to admit, I haven't really played all too much 4e. More because I don't like the system all too much than because I think it's a bad game, because it obviously runs quite well. However, from what I hear the Psion was basically refined and representative of only the Telepath discipline, capable of mind-controlling enemies to fight for them and act as their living weapon instead of relying to heavily on attacks of their own. Master manipulators who stayed out of the fight as much as possible, but who were still strongly felt none-the-less. And while that is awesome, it misses out on all the other highly-customizable options the 3.P psion can bring to the table, even among just the telepath's discipline. Other psionic classes and paragon tiers basically absorbed the rest of the psion path, and left it as something limited that it hadn't been since 1e... which is a shame and a step back in the apparent progression of the class.

And which is something I want to change here in 5e.

So it's basically Arcane magic, right? No.

No it is not.

They do share some similarities, however. Much like a wizard, a psion (the base class of all psionics) relies on their intellect, and to a lesser degree study to empower their abilities. Much like a sorcerer, their powers are inborn, an inherent trait that they possess, and it is as much a part of them as their skin/scales/slightly more solid oozey exterior. However, this is where the similarity ends. A wizard must rely solely on their study, learning mysteries and building up their skills by mastering their manipulation of the weave, and a sorcery learns how to do the same thing by using their unique bloodline to power their magic and interact with the weave. The psion, on the other hand, imagines how they wish the world to work, tells the weave to shut up and sit down, and uses inborn talent that comes from the mind, not from some bastardized and diluted majesty of far elder creatures.

To put it in a different light, in computer terms the wizard is a hacker, manipulating the existing code and changing it into what they can using the base source. The sorcerer is a rogue program, using what code it starts out with to modify and change the existing framework. The psion is the guy who writes the code itself, imposing new lines of data over the existing code and writing new programs into reality to handle the changes.

So what is it exactly that you are bringing from past editions to 5e? For starters, I am bringing in the Psionic Focus mechanic. Different classes and subclasses will gain different active and passive effects from their psionic focus, and different ways to maintain/ expend it. I'll probably be changing how it is implemented as time goes on, but for right now I am shooting for it being an at-will active or always on passive buff to one of a variety of things, mostly manifesting.

Secondly, I am bringing in the Psion as its own class, complete with a subclass for each discipline, and then also probably a few other subclasses for certain PrC's that don't translate perfectly into one of the disciplines or another (like the Colorless Adept and Metamind). The psion will be a "limited powers known" int-based manifester (basically spellcaster. But because it's psionics it's special) that uses the spellpoint system, and who has their own identity as far as psionic focus an use goes. As well, the other psionic classes/ PrC's from 3.P will hopefully see a revival as well as sublcasses for the PHB classes, hopefully helping to fill in the gaps.

A whole new spells list, hopefully complete with a few new and interesting options that normal spellcasters cannot replicate.

New feats and abilities that come with them.

Finally, perhaps some of the psionic races, like the Elan, the Xeph and the Blue. I do miss those little blue goblin defects.

Hopefully this will be a system that people can enjoy! Any and all feedback is welcome at any time during this process, and please do not expect it to finish too quickly. There is a lot of work to be done.

Now without any further ado, the creme of the crop and cornerstone class of the whole psionic system...

The Psion

Mind over matter:

Individual Power:

LevelFeaturesTalents knownPower pointsPowers knownMaximum power level
1Manifesting, Psionic discipline, psionic focus (discipline manipulation)3431st
2Manifester's inspiration, psionic focus (discipline)3641st
3--41452nd
4Ability score increase41762nd
5Psionic discipline42773rd
6Psionic focus (discipline)43283rd
7--43894th
8Ability score increase444104th
9--557115th
10Psionic discipline564125th
11Psionic focus (split concentration)573136th
12Ability score increase573136th
13--583147th
14Psionic focus (overwhelming manifestation)683147th
15--694158th
16Ability score increase694158th
17--6107169th
18Psionic discipline6114169th
19Psionic focus (discipline mastery)6123169th
20Revelation6133209th

Class features
As a psion, you gain the following class features.

Hit points
Hit dice: 1d6 per psion level
Hit Points at 1st level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per psion level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: None
Saving throws: Constitution and intelligence
Skills: Choose two from arcana, history, insight, investigation, nature, perception, performance or religion

Equipment
(a) a quarterstaff and dagger or (b) two short swords
A psionic focus (often a crystal of some kind)
(a) leather armor or (b) a light crossbow with 20 bolts
(a) a diplomat's pack or (b) a dungeoneer's pack or (c) a scholar's pack

Manifesting
As a being who has begun to unlock the potential of their mind, you are able to tap into a type of energy known as psionics. Channeling them through your body and into the world, psionics are able to grant you supernatural powers. Unlike normal spell casting, which requires interaction with a weave or outside source of magic, psionics are powered by your own mind and body, giving you a different system to draw upon.

Talents
You know three psionic talents of your choice from the psion powers list. You learn additional psion talents of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Talents Known column of the Psion table.

Power points
The Psion table shows you the power points that you possess to manifest your powers with. The table also shows you the maximum level of power you can manifest at each particular psion level, and the minimum power point cost of a power of a particular level is listed on the table below.
Power levelPoint cost
1st2
2nd3
3rd5
4th6
5th7
6th9
7th10
8th11
9th13
Powers may be augmented by expending extra power points by increasing their cost to the next power level, as detailed in their entries. Until reaching the higher levels of psion, powers of level 6 or higher may only be manifest once per long rest. At level 19 the psion may augment up to or manifest a second level 6 power each long rest, and at level 20 they may augment up to or manifest a second level 7 power each long rest.

Powers known of 1st level and higher
At first level you have unlocked knowledge of three 1st level powers from the psion powers list.
The Powers Known column of the psion table shows you the rate at which you learn new powers of 1st level or higher. New powers learned must be of a level that you can manifest. For instance, at level 5 the psion may choose their new power known from the level 1-3 psion powers list.
Additionally, at every even level of psion you may exchange one of the powers you know for one of a level you can manifest.
Finally, your subclass will grant you knowledge of particular powers. These powers may not be exchanged for other powers of higher levels,, but do not count against your total powers known.

Manifesting Ability
Intelligence is the manifesting ability for your psionic powers, since your ability to manifest your abilities depend on your creativity and imagination. You use Intelligence whenever a power references your manifesting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a psion power you cast, and when making an attack roll with one.
Power save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Power attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Manifesting focus
You may use a crystal as your psionic focus. Crystals used in this manner typically are charged with psionic energy of some variety and of high quality. Often these crystals are used only to channel the most intensive or complex powers, and eventually a psion will imprint a semblance of their will and psionic power onto the focus crystal making the tool personalized and more ready to react to their psychic signature.

Psionic discipline
At level 1 you choose which psionic discipline calls to you, granting you a focus in your ability to manifest. Additionally, your chosen discipline will typically grant you access to unique powers that no other class or psionic discipline can learn. Powers from the specialized discipline list may be learned whenever you learn a new power from the psion class list, replacing the general power learned.
At levels 5, 10 and 18, you gain new psionic discipline features. As well, your chosen discipline will grant you unique ways to use or benefit from your psionic focus at levels 2 and 6.

Psionic focus
At 1st level you are able to enter into a psuedo-supernatural stat of focus, giving you a small pocket of energy that you can call upon to help you with your manifestations. As a psion, you will learn ways to make this contained energy work with your manifestations, granting you varying bonuses when you expend or maintain this focus.
Psionic focus may either be expended or maintained. After completing a long or short rest any expended psionic focus is regained. You may also use a bonus action to regain your expended psionic focus. There is no limit to how many times you may regain your psionic focus, but certain psionic foci have a limit on how many times you may use them each long or short rest.
Every psionic discipline will grant you unique ways to expend your psionic focus, and unique benefits for maintaining it.

Psionic focus; Discipline Manipulation
At level 1 you are able to manipulate your chosen discipline to a far greater degree. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, psion powers from your discipline list cost 1 less power point to manifest. At level 19 this feature becomes Discipline Mastery, and you may lower the cost of your discipline's powers by 2 as long as you maintain psionic focus.

Manifester's Inspiration
Starting at level 2 you are capable of drawing on an untapped source of psionic energy, slightly restoring your own stores. After completing a short rest, you may regain a number of expended power points equal to your psion levels. You may recover power points in this way once per long rest.

Psionic focus; Focus Concentration
Beginning at level 11 you are able to divert your psionic focus to the maintenance of powers. When you manifest a power that requires your concentration, you may expend your psionic focus to remove concentration from the effect. As long as you do not regain your psionic focus, you do not have to concentrate on the effect. If you do regain your psionic focus, however, you must immediately begin concentrating on the power or it will end.

Psionic focus; Overwhelming Power
Starting at level 14 you may sacrifice the energy in your psionic focus to increase the effects of your powers. When you manifest or augment a power up to 5th level or lower, you may expend your psionic focus to increase its effective power level by 2, scaling it basically for free. You must complete a short or long rest to regain use of this particular psionic focus.

Revelation
Reaching the pinnacle of your craft, your mind begins to spin with the possibilities and methods to manipulate your psionic energy. At level 20 you learn 4 psionic powers from the psion list or your discipline list immediately. These powers may be from any level, and they become permanent tools for your use.


Subclasses
The absolute generalist of the psion, the colorless adept is by and far one of the most flexible and versatile of the psionic disciplines. Able to expand their knowledge of powers at a moment's notice, a colorless adept sacrifices access to a large specialized discipline list to gain additional powers when they need them. Colorless Adepts are part of a network of psions known as the colorless order, which work as a collective to ensure that their allies have access to powers that they need.

Psion levelPower learned
1stColorless wisp
3rdClear mind
5thColorless flame
7thLesser power knowledge
9thColorless storm

Widened knowledge
At level 1 you increase the number of psion powers you know by 1. This power is not counted against the number of powers you know.

Psionic Focus; Network knowledge
Starting at level 2 you may expend your psionic focus as an action to gain temporary knowledge of a psionic power of your choice. You may select one power of a level you can manifest (maximum power level of 5) from any list other than a psion discipline list, and you may manifest this power for 1 minute or until you regain your psionic focus. You must complete a long or short rest to regain use of this psionic focus.

Empowered talents
Starting at level 5 you add your intelligence modifier to the damage dealt by your psion talents.

Psionic focus; Network intelligence
Starting at level 6 your psionic focus allows you to tap into some of the general knowledge accumulated by the colorless network. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you have advantage on all intelligence checks.

Common knowledge
Starting at level 10 when you use your Network Knowledge psionic focus, you may either choose to gain temporary knowledge of one psion power of any level you can manifest, or to gain temporary knowledge of two psion powers of level 5 or lower.

Psionic focus; Network empowerment
After reaching level 18 you have reached a high enough position of prominence that members of the colorless network will send you power through your psionic focus. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, the save DC of your powers increases by 1.

The egoist is a person obsessed with their own physical perfection, and constantly strives to improve themselves and their body. While they can extend their talents to other creatures, for the most part an egoist's powers focus on themselves. Their powers range from healing their wounds and increasing their capabilities, to the creation of extra limbs, modification of their physical features and fusing with another creature in the most literal term possible. It goes without saying that an egoist's appearance is always relatively... interesting to say the least.

Psion levelPower learned
1stSympathetic senses
3rdBody adjustment
5thIncreased capability
7thLesser aberrant traits
9thFission

Armored carapace
Starting at level 1 you increase your maximum hit points by 1 and your armor class is equal to 13+your Dexterity modifier as long as you are not wearing armor. Each additional level of Psion you gain increases your maximum hit points by a further 1.

Psionic focus; Additional limbs
Starting at level 2 you are able to create natural weapons for your body when you use certain powers. When you manifest a psychometabolism discipline power, you may expend your psionic focus to create a number of natural weapons on your body equal to the power's level (maximum 5). The weapons you may create are detailed below, and use your intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls. You may make one attack with each of your natural weapons as an action.
Bite: Your bite deals 1d8 piercing damage. Unless you have multiple mouths, you may only have one bite attack.
Claw: Your claws deal 1d6 slashing damage. If you want, you may make additional limbs to hold extra claws.
Tail: Your tail deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage and has a 5 foot reach. You may only have one tail attack.
Tentacle: Your tentacles deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage and you may make a grapple attempt against creatures struck by your tentacles.
Your chosen limbs remain for one minute or until you regain your psionic focus. You must complete a long or short rest to regain use of this psionic focus.

Advanced limbs
Starting at level 5 you increase how quickly your limbs can move, increasing your movement speed by 15 feet and granting you advantage on slight of hand checks.

Psionic focus; Bodily realignment
Starting at level 6 you may tap into your psionic focus to help you recover from your injuries. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you regain hit points when you manifest a power of the psychometabolism discipline equal to the number of power points you expend on it.

Psionic focus; Hardened carapace
Starting at level 10 your psionic focus may be used to harden your skin like a protective shell. When you manifest a power of 1st level or higher, you may expend your psionic focus to gain resistance to your choice of bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage. You keep this resistance until you regain your psionic focus.

Surreal awareness
Starting at level 18 your body has been changed and modified so many times that some little bit of supernatural awareness has stayed with you. You gain blindsight out to 30 feet and darkvision out to 60 feet. If you had darkvision from any other source, then you increase how far you can see with it by 30 feet.

The kineticist is a manipulator of energy. Thermals, electricity, sound and kinetic force are their play things, theirs to twist, break or create as they see fit. A kineticist's control over energy allows them to rapidly adapt to any environment, and their powers are flexible, dangerous and sculpted for the realm of combat.

Psion levelPower learned
1stEnergy missiles
3rdKinetic shove
5thEnergy ball
7thEnergy field
9thControl limbs

Shifting energy
At level 1 when you manifest a power from the psychokenisis discipline list that deals damage, you may change the damage it deals to cold, fire, lightning or thunder damage.

Psionic focus; Kinetic Manifestation
Starting at level 2 when you manifest a power from the kineticist discipline that deals damage, you may expend your psionic focus to change its damage type to force.

Psionic focus; Burning mind
Starting at level 5 you may begin to use your psionic focus to lash out at those who would harm you. As a reaction to being damaged by a weapon or spell attack made by an enemy within 30 feet of you, you may expend your psionic focus to deal 2d6 cold, fire, lightning or thunder damage (your choice) to your attacker.

Psionic focus; Destructive clarity
At level 6 your focus increases the potency of your psychokinetic powers. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you increase the damage dealt by your psychokinetic powers by your intelligence modifier. For a power with multiple projectiles, this effect only affects one projectile of your choice.

Psionic focus; Elemental mastery
Starting at level 10 your mastery of each particular element allows you to enhance your offensive powers to a greater degree. As long as you maintain your psionic focus then powers that deal damage of the following energy types have their effects modified.
Cold: The saving throw to resist this power may be changed to constitution if you desire. Creatures damaged by this power are slowed 5 feet.
Fire: You increase the damage of the power by the level you manifest it at (minimum 1). For a power with multiple projectiles, this effect only affects one projectile of your choice.
Force: Creatures damaged by this power are pushed 5 feet in a direction of your choosing each time they are dealt damage.
Lightning: The save DC is increased by 1. Alternately, if attacking a creature wearing metal armor/ made of metal, you have advantage on the attack roll.
Thunder: The power deals its full damage to unattended objects, and creatures damaged by it are deafened until the end of their next turn.

Rapid adaptation
Upon reaching level 18 you have more than mastered your command over energy, and you may rapidly change your body to adapt to the elements. You may choose one of the options from the following list.
You gain immunity to cold damage and are acclimated to arctic conditions and temperatures as low as -80 degrees F.
You gain immunity to fire damage and are acclimated to desert conditions and temperatures up to 180 degrees F.
You gain immunity to lightning damage and the paralyzed condition.
You gain immunity to thunder damage and immunity to the deafened condition. You are also not effected by magical silence.
You may change your chosen option at the end of a long rest.

Some psions decide to sacrifice their versatility for power. Called the metamind, their focus is not on a specific discipline, but rather on the manifestation of as many powers as possible. They are famous for their ability to "sequester" knowledge of powers, allowing them to increase their psionic stores at the cost of temporarily forgetting their techniques. A metamind also does their best to get the most out of every power they manage to squeeze out, and while their discipline list is limited, it is highly focused on teamwork and drawing power from allies. Basically, the general theme of the metamind is more. More power, more points and more teamwork.

Psion levelPower learned
1stPower spike
3rdInfuse power points
5thShared powers
7thSplit concentration
9thMetaconcert

Sequester power
Starting at level 1 you may choose to temporarily lose access to one of your powers to gain a temporary boost to your power points. After spending one minute in meditation, you lose the ability to manifest one of your powers known and increase your current and maximum power points by the minimum power point cost of the power you have sequestered. You may sequester multiple powers over the course of a day. You regain access to sequestered powers and your power point maximum returns to normal at the end of a long rest.

Psionic focus; Power surge
Starting at level 2 when you manifest a psionic power, you may expend your psionic focus to reduce the power's cost by your intelligence modifier (minimum 0). You must complete a long rest before regaining access to this psionic focus.

Empowered talents
Starting at level 5 you may add your intelligence modifier to the damage dealt by your psion talents.

Psionic focus; Power refinement
Starting at level 6, you are able to extend your ability to reduce the cost of your discipline powers to your general powers. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, whenever you manifest a power from the psion powers list, you may lower the cost of manifesting it by 1.

Psionic focus; Faster than thought
Starting at level 10, you are able to expend your psionic focus to manifest one of your powers as a bonus action. You may manifest a different power as an action as well on any round you use this psionic focus. You must complete a long or short rest to regain use of this psionic focus.

Power surge
Starting at level 18 you are able to unlock the true potential of your psionic powers for a short time. As a bonus action you may enter a heightened state for one minute. While in this state you may lower the cost to manifest your powers by your intelligence modifier (minimum cost 0), and you may manifest one additional level 6 or 7 power without expending one of your daily allotted 6th or 7th level powers. You must complete a long rest to regain use of this ability.

The nomad is a free-spirited traveler. Armed with powers that focus on movement both along the ground and through the planes, their are few places that can contain or restrict the movement of these wanderers. Nomads often travel together or with companions by forming astral caravans, allowing them to move through the realms with far less effort and far greater safety.

Psion levelPower learned
1stSkate
3rdDisrupting shift
5thBlink
7thDimension door
9thAstral jaunt

Increased mobility
Starting at level 1 you increase your movement speed by 5 feet and have advantage on Dexterity (acrobatics) checks made to escape bindings.

Psionic focus; Astral caravan
Starting at level 2 you are able to influence your allies when you touch the astral plane. When you manifest a psychoportation power with a range of "self," you may expend your psionic focus to extend the power's range to include a number of willing creatures adjacent to you equal to your intelligence modifier. They remain under the effects of the power until the power ends or you regain your psionic focus.
You must complete a long rest to regain use of this psionic focus.

Emergency shift
Starting at level 5 you are able to reflexively bend space to avoid the attacks of your foe. When you are attacked, but before the results of the dice are known, you may use your reaction to move yourself to the closest unoccupied space that you can see. This movement causes the attack to miss.
You must complete a long rest before you can use this psionic focus again.

Psionic focus; Distant power
Starting at level 6, you may use your psionic focus to increase the range of your powers. When you manifest a psychoportation power, you may expend your psionic focus to double its range (if applicable). Powers with a range of "self" have their range increased to 30 feet.

Psionic focus; Safe travels
Starting at level 10 you are more capable of arriving at your destination, and less likely to have a mishap, as long as you remain focused. While maintaining your psionic focus, any psychoportation power that has a chance of mishap or inaccurately teleporting you has its rate of mishaps or ariving off target reduced by 10%, and its chance of success raised accordingly.

Astral gaze
At level 18 you are so in tune with the astral plane that you can feel its ripples while standing on the material. You are aware of any teleportation that occurs within 120 feet of you on the material plane, and while on the astral plane you know the location of any creature within 300 feet of you.

The seer is a manipulator of time itself. They use their powers to look through the veil into the realms of possibility and probability, both past and present. A seer can use their "visions" to piece together events that have happened around them, and are often found working as detectives because of this.
However, portents are not the only things a seer will bring to the table. They are able to manipulate the odds and probability, and able to send out ripples into time itself to turn bad situations to their advantage.

Psion levelPower learned
1stTemporal skip
3rdProbability shield
5thRecall pain
7thProbability mantel
9thRewind

Bonus proficiency
Starting at level 1 you gain proficiency in the investigation skill.

Psionic focus; Momentary rewind
Starting at level 2 you may expend your psionic focus to temporarily reverse the effects of time on an object or corpse.
An object under the effects of this ability is treated as if it were up to 10 years younger, regaining any lost form and applicability that were caused by the passage of time (rot, erosion, rust, etc). Objects destroyed by other influences may regain their youth, but are still broken. Only medium sized or smaller objects may be restored in this way.
A corpse targeted by this ability can be treated as if it were up to a week younger. Any injuries from bludgeoning, piercing or slashing weapons remain, but all other injuries and lost blood are reverted. The creature remains dead.
Momentary rewind will last for ten minutes or until you regain your psionic focus.

Luck twist
Starting at level 5, you may add or subtract your proficiency bonus on all checks made for games based on luck, or for rolls that rely entirely on luck that are not modified by an attribute.

Psionic focus; Advantageous glimpse
Starting at level 6 you are able to get more out of your glimpses into time. When you manifest a power of the clairsentience discipline, you may expend your psionic focus to gain advantage on your next attack roll.

Perfect memory
Starting at level 10 your mind retains information perfectly. You can perfectly recall any information or event that occurred in your presence within the last 10 years, and have advantage on saving throws against having your memories changed. This does not retroactively repair your memory.

Psionic focus; Brief glimpse
Starting at level 18 you are able to constantly see the recent past and the most likely future. As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you always act during the surprise round, and you can always find and successfully follow your own trail.

The shaper is a manipulator of the physical, and specializes in the creation of solid, reliable constructs. The shaper warps and creates parts of reality as they see fit, creating ectoplasm to entangle foes and craft weapons for their allies. A shaper has a strong connection to their focus crystals, and when they imprint on one it seems to almost have a life of its own.

Psion levelPower learned
1stEctoplasmic burst
3rdAstral construct
5thEctoplasmic Cocoon
7thQuintessence
9thLesser ectoplasmic ally

Crystalline shell
Starting from level 1 your skin hardens and takes on a slightly gem-like appearance. As long as you are not wearing armor your armor class is 13+your Intelligence modifier.

Psionic focus; Ectoplasmic burst
Starting at level 2 when you damage a creature or object with a metacreativity power, you may expend your psionic focus to force one damaged creature to make a Dexterity saving throw against your power save DC. On a failed save the target is covered in ectoplasm and restrained for 1 minute or until you regain your psionic focus. A creature may make a Strength check against your spell save DC, ending the effect on a success.

Psicrystal
At level 5 you may imprint a small part of your personality within a fist sized crystal, causing this crystal to become animated. This construct is called a psicrystal.
Your psicrystal is a tiny construct. Its AC is 13+your intelligence modifier, it has blindsight out to 30 feet and is blind beyond this range. The psycrystal has hit points equal to twice your psion level. You share senses with your psicrystal as long as you remain within 60 feet of it.
You may use your bonus action to command your psicrystal to crawl or hover up to 20 feet in a direction of your choosing. Your psicrystal is proficient in Dexterity (stealth) checks and shares all of your other skill proficiencies. The psicrystal automatically fails strength checks.
Your psicrystal has no ability to attack. If your psicrystal is within 60 feet of you when you manifest a beneficial power with a range of "self," you may choose to grant the psycrystal the benefits of your power.
If your psicrystal is destroyed, you may recreate it at the end of a long rest.

Psionic focus; Armored constructs
Starting at level 6 you may expend your psionic focus to make your constructs become a bit more durable. When you create a creature with your metacreativity powers, you may expend your psionic focus to increases its armor class by 1 and maximum hit points by your psion level.

Psionic focus; Unbreaking creation
Starting at level 10 as long as you maintain your psionic focus, your concentration on powers from the metacreativity discipline may not be broken unless you choose to end the power or its duration expires.

Reimagine
Beginning to reach the pinnacle of your power, you are able to temporarily alter and improve reality. As an action you may suffuse an object up to 100 cubic feet in size or willing construct within 60 feet of you with power, increasing its maximum hit points by 40 and healing it fully. Additionally, you can alter the target's size by one category, and may change its constructed material into one you have encountered in the past. After an hour the target's hit point maximum, size and composition returns to normal.
You must complete a long or short rest to use this ability again.

Telepaths dominate the realm of the mind. From the simplest of charms to the strongest hallucinations, to replacing another creature's psyche with their own, a telepath has a large portfolio to manipulate other beings. Charming, affluent and waited on by their attendants, a telepath can easily weave their way into the high places of society.

Psion levelPower learned
1stMindlink
3rdAversion
5thFalse sensory input
7thMindwipe
9thMind probe

Psionic focus; Beguiling affect
Starting at level 2, you may use your psionic focus to make yourself more charming. Whenever you make a deception or persuasion check, you may expend your psionic focus to gain advantage on the roll.

Psionic focus; Mind breaker
Starting at level 2 when you deal psychic damage to a creature with one of your powers, you may expend your psionic focus to impose disadvantage on the next Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma saving throw they make. You must complete a long or short rest to regain use of this psionic focus.

Empowered talents
Starting at level 5 you may add your intelligence modifier to the damage rolls of your psion talents.

Psionic focus; Irresistible charmer
Starting at level 6, as long as you maintain your psionic focus enemies who you charm fail on their first attempt to break free from the power that charmed them.

Thought shield
After manipulating the minds of others for long enough, you have learned to protect your own. You gain resistance to psychic damage, and immunity to the charmed condition. Additionally, your thoughts cannot be read and your memories cannot be altered unless you allow them to be.

Thrall herd
Beginning at level 18 you gather a number of lesser beings to your banner. You may make up to 5 thralls, who are creatures of your choice who act as your agents. These creatures are considered charmed by you, and they work to loyally further your goals in their own unique ways. However, nothing else about your thralls' personality or other motivations change.
A thrall may not be of a CR above 1/4, and must be neutral or friendly towards you when you "convert" them. An unwilling non-hostile creature is allowed to make an Intelligence saving throw to avoid becoming your thrall.
You may create a thrall by spending 13 power points and concentrating on creating the link for an hour. Given how intensive the ritual is, it is recommended that if you are making an unwilling thrall that you isolate yourself and somehow secure the creature in place.
You may communicate with your thralls telepathically from up to one mile away. As long as you are on the same plane as your thrall, you know if they are alive, dead or unconscious.
You must wait until the end of a long rest to create a new thrall. If one of your thralls is slain, you must wait for one week before you can replace them.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:28 AM
This will be for the subclasses for other classes. I'll just leave the spoiler tags here.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:29 AM
Psionic powers; Psion Discipline lists

Since I have the psion and suggested there would be specialized lists for each of them, I thought that I might as well get to these next. Note, each of these powers may only be chosen and manifested by the psion who specializes in each particular subclass, and that these powers may be selected on top of the general powers from the psion list. Also note, I will be doing each of these powers alphabetically and by level (so A-Z level 1 powers, A-Z level 2 powers, etc) to make organization a bit better.

It's more than likely that this post will eventually be moved to the very end, and that psionic races, items and feats will fill in here later. I will make a note of such a change if this ends up happening.

Colorless wisp
1st level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: 90 feet
Components: Mental, S
Duration: Instantaneous

You create small whisps of pale white flames, which fly from your hand to attack your foes. Make a ranged spell attack against a creature you can see in range. On a hit, this power deals 3d8 necrotic or radiant damage (your choice) to the target.
Manifesting at higher levels When manifest as a level 3 power you increase the damage by 2d8 and may target one additional creature with this power. Every two power levels higher increases the damage by a further 2d8 and grants an additional target.

Talented spark
1st level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: Mental
Duration: 10 minutes or psionic focus expended

Tapping into the pool of knowledge offered by the colorless order, you gain temporary knowledge of one talent from the psion talent list for as long as you maintain your psionic focus. You must be maintaining your psionic focus to manifest this power.

Wash out
1st level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: Mental
Duration: 10 minutes, concentration

You make the colors of a target creature fade away, making them a bit harder to notice among their natural surroundings. As long as the target is not moving and in at least 1/2 cover, they may attempt to hide. They also have advantage on all stealth checks made to hide.

Clear mind
2nd level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: Mental
Duration: End of your next turn

You are able to overcome forces that would influence your mind by momentarily clearing everything from it. When you manifest this power, you may end any one instance of the charmed or frightened condition on yourself, and gain advantage on all saving throws against these condition until the power ends.

Network assistance
2nd level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: Mental
Duration: 10 minutes, concentration

You call upon some of the knowledge stored within the colorless network, allowing you to research more effectively. As long as you are concentrating on this power, the results of any Arcana, History, Nature or Religion checks you make cannot be lower than your manifesting ability score.

Colorless flame
Level 3 colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
[u]Components:[u] Mental, S
Duration: Instantaneous

You unleash a ball of pale flames that detonates on arrival. You throw this ball at a point you can see within range, where it detonates in a sphere with a 15 foot radius. Creatures within the sphere are dealt 6d8 necrotic or radiant damage (your choice). Affected creatures are allowed to make a Dexterity saving throw against your power save DC, and reduce the damage dealt by half on a successful save.
At higher levels Manifesting this power at level 4 increases its damage by 1d8. Every power level after increases the damage by a further 1d8.

Share talents
3rd level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: M (Psionic focus), Mental
Duration: 1 hour or psionic focus expended

You implant knowledge of one of your talents in the mind of an ally. When you manifest this power choose one ally in range. This ally may manifest one of the psionic talents you know of your choice as if they knew it. They use their own manifesting attribute, or if they do not have a manifesting attribute, then an attribute of their choice, when they manifest this talent.

Lesser power knowledge
4th level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: Mental
Duration: 1 minute or psionic focus expended.

Expending a part of your energy reserve, you gain fleeting knowledge of a minor power you did not know. When you manifest this power, chose one power of level 2 or lower that you do not know from the psion power list. You may manifest this power as long as this power persists. You must be maintaining your psionic concentration to manifest this power.
At higher levels If you manifest this power at level 5 you may select a power of up to level 3, and if you manifest this power at level 6 you may select a power of up to level 4.

Relearn
4th level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 hour
Range: Self
Components: M (Three crystals worth at least 500, 750 and 1000 gold apiece, which are consumed by the ritual), Mental
Duration: Permanent

You spend an hour connecting to the colorless network, focusing your will and knowledge through a handful of focusing crystals to change knowledge of a power you currently possess.
Choose a power you know of up to level 6 to forget. When you manifest relearn, you lose the ability to manifest your chosen power and replace your knowledge of it with a power of a level equal to or lower than your original power's level from the psion powers list. You may exchange Relearn for another power in this fashion.

Colorless storm
5th level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: 240 feet
Components: Mental
Duration: 10 minutes, concentration

You form a mist of pale white energy that damages all creatures within it. You target a space that you can see in range, creating a mist that spreads out into a 40 foot cube, wrapping around corners and seeping into cracks. Creatures inside of the mist are dealt 6d8 radiant or necrotic damage (your choice) when they start their turn in this mist or move through the mist for the first time on their turn. A creature may make a constitution saving throw against your manifestation save DC to reduce the damage by half.
At higher levels If manifest at power level 6, this power deals an additional 1d8 damage. Every power level after increases the damage by a further 1d8.

Infuse power
6th level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: Mental
Duration: 1 day or until expended

You implant the ability to manifest a power in the mind of an ally. Choose one power you know of level 4 or lower. Within the next 24 hours your ally may manifest this power, following the normal manifestation time and paying any costs associated with the power except power points. After your ally manifests the chosen power for the first time infuse power ends.

Greater power knowledge
7th level colorless adept
Manifesting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: Mental
Duration: 1 minute or psionic focus expended

You tap into the knowledge of the colorless network and call upon many of its greater powers. When you manifest this power, choose one level 5 or 6 power you do not know from the psion power list. You may manifest this power as if you knew it for 1 minute. Alternately, you may choose to temporarily learn two powers of level 4 or lower for the same duration. You must be maintaining concentration to manifest this power.























































































Bolt

Ectoplasmic burst
1st level metacreativity
Manifesting time: 1 action

Entangling amorpha

Rust/ decay

Astral construct

Minor repair

Swarm of crystals

Concealing amorpha

Crystal trap

Ectoplasmic Cocoon

Fabrication

Quintessence

Repair damage

Hail of crystals

Lesser ectoplasmic ally

Crystalize

Ectoplasmic sentinel

Greater ectoplasmic ally

Mass fabrication

Astral seed

Genesis/ anti-genesis

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:31 AM
Reserved for the next things.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:34 AM
And more for even more powers.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 05:38 AM
And a single post more, just to be absolutely safe. After this, further posts from me will just be progress updates/ responding to posts.

Steampunkette
2015-06-16, 05:41 AM
I've noticed psionics are -hyper- popular on the forums, today.

This excites me in a deeply happy place.

Maybe I should work on a Dark Sun Conversion to interact with all the yummy Psychicness?

Ralanr
2015-06-16, 09:55 AM
I had a similar idea with a friend of mine (mainly to have him not make a class because he knows nothing of balance and doesn't take, "too powerful, can we change it?" Well). Though I thought it best to avoid making ones for the divine classes due to mixing power sources. And I agree that soulknife fits fighter better.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-16, 02:50 PM
I've noticed psionics are -hyper- popular on the forums, today.

This excites me in a deeply happy place.

Maybe I should work on a Dark Sun Conversion to interact with all the yummy Psychicness?

It's probably because we want psionics. We want them so, so very much. :smalltongue:

And hey, that might be a good idea! I don't know much about Dark Sun myself (mostly played in the Forgotten Realms + psionics here), so someone who knows more about the setting would probably be better.


I had a similar idea with a friend of mine (mainly to have him not make a class because he knows nothing of balance and doesn't take, "too powerful, can we change it?" Well). Though I thought it best to avoid making ones for the divine classes due to mixing power sources. And I agree that soulknife fits fighter better.

Psionics, like all domains of magic, have a deity that empowers and generates them. So worshiping a god that provides the energies (like Sardior) seems like it would be fitting. I'm actually surprised that we don't have a domain for the Arcane (which Mystra would so totally own) by now.

Ralanr
2015-06-17, 01:52 AM
It's probably because we want psionics. We want them so, so very much. :smalltongue:

And hey, that might be a good idea! I don't know much about Dark Sun myself (mostly played in the Forgotten Realms + psionics here), so someone who knows more about the setting would probably be better.



Psionics, like all domains of magic, have a deity that empowers and generates them. So worshiping a god that provides the energies (like Sardior) seems like it would be fitting. I'm actually surprised that we don't have a domain for the Arcane (which Mystra would so totally own) by now.

Is that based on setting lore or your own interpretation? My friends and I always assumed psionics were their own power source. We've only had one person play a psion and that was a soulknife from pathfinder, so our knowledge of psionics isn't up to speed with the status quo.

Wartex1
2015-06-17, 01:59 AM
I think he's referring to the Psionics Domain.

Ralanr
2015-06-17, 02:20 AM
I think he's referring to the Psionics Domain.

Oh.
I'm still on the boat against mixing divine and psionic, but that's just my 2cp

Gnomes2169
2015-06-17, 02:40 AM
Psionics are self-born powers. However, there are a few gods (like Sardior, the ruby dragon) who hold unique dominion over a few powers and grant them to their followers/ help awaken their follower's latent psionic tallents, and who can provide their followers with psionic powers overflowing from their own mind. Hence the Psionics domain, which is still divine in nature but which allows a cleric the ability to branch out into psionic capabilities slightly.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-17, 06:06 AM
Also, general overview stuff is now up. I'm hoping to get the psion's table and general abilities done by tomorrow, as that will really be the hardest work I would have to do from my phone (I won't have access to my computer for a few days). Should be the start of a fun trek.

Also, if I got anything in the history wrong, please tell me! I would be more than happy to correct the mistakes and honestly learn more about the 4e psion in particular.

Mcdt2
2015-06-17, 12:30 PM
Obviously, there's not really any mechanics here yet, but I'm certainly looking forward to it.


Also, if I got anything in the history wrong, please tell me! I would be more than happy to correct the mistakes and honestly learn more about the 4e psion in particular.

Just skimming the history section...

1st edition actually had psionic combat rules from the start, with no Psionicist class in sight. Any class could be psionic, even magic-users and clerics, assuming they had high enough mental scores and were able to roll high enough to unlock their powers. Psionics were just a small list of powers at the back of the Player's Handbook, and they were never enough to actually build a character around. The Psionicist class wasn't introduced until Dragon #78 introduced it, although it was still considered unofficial.

Your 2nd edition analysis seems spot on, though I never played much 2e.

3.0 and 3.5 psionics are completely different, incidentally. 3.0 psionics basically worked like they did in 2e, what with the psionic combat modes and special defenses, tying psionics to weird abilities (IIRC, you could use psionics based off of your Strength) and all that unpleasantness. 3.5 was what introduced power points, magic/psionics transparency, augmentation, and removed all the oddness of earlier editions. As far as I know, it also introduced the term "manifester" to refer to someone who used psionics.

Never played much 4th edition, but from what I remember: Monk was the only psionic class that followed the at-will/encounter/daily/utility power setup. The others lacked encounter powers, but had far more at-will powers and a pool of power points that recharged on a short rest (which was a mere 5 minutes back then). They could use the power points to augment their at-will powers. Don't recall what their powers actually did, in regards to discipline, though.

Ziegander
2015-06-17, 02:12 PM
I have seen a few of them rolling around the internet, and honestly, I have to automatically oppose any 5e psionics system that makes the Psion (and other psionic classes) a spellcaster, who uses all the same rules as other spellcasters.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-17, 02:27 PM
Ah, right. 1e had the pscionics list in the back of the PHB... it's been about 13 years since I saw that old thing, so I'd forgotten that it was basically a list of additional class features that lucky people could pick up. Could have sworn that the pscionist was in there though... ah well. Correction here added.

And I had tried to block out 3.0 psionics. >_> I haven't been able to find or had the inclination to search for more specifics, and only really cared about the gem dragons from that half of the edition, so hopefully the revision to include original 3e psionics is close enough to what they actually were.

Edit: @Zeigander: I haven't even written down the class yet man, come on! :smalltongue:

Ziegander
2015-06-17, 05:01 PM
@Zeigander: I haven't even written down the class yet man, come on! :smalltongue:

Lol, hey, you're a good designer, man, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em. Psychic powers aren't spells and have never been treated exactly the same as them (3.5 got as close as D&D ever got to calling powers "spells," and that caused mechanically disastrous problems not to mention the fluff issues).

If the Psion casts "spells," then they might as well be either a Wizard variant or a Sorcerer variant, possibly, probably one each. A Psion Tradition for Wizards and a Wilder Bloodline for Sorcerer, both use their own unique spell list that includes few, if any, normal arcane spells. Wouldn't that basically do it?

Yes, you could design a new Psion class, with class features that are unique enough to stop being compared with Wizards and Sorcerers, with a spell list that is theirs and no one else's, but at the end of the day it would still be a "full caster class" and not a "psionic class." If you get what I mean.

Steampunkette
2015-06-17, 05:23 PM
I said something in the Homebrewed Psion thread that I think could be really interesting: Kill Concentration for Psionics.

Instead, have longer lasting effects have shorter, set, durations with the ability to stack. 3-5 rounds tops. It would definitely make Psionicists a different breed of spellcaster, since most players would focus on combat buffing and debuffing to make the best use of their lack of concentration effects.

And then you could make Psionic Warriors fling out short-duration smite benefits as their damage increasing ability.

Mental Slice
Duration: 3 rounds
Target: Self
When using the Extra Attack feature you may use this power as a bonus action to cause one extra attack to deal an additional 2d6 Psychic Damage. On the following 2 rounds, your weapon attacks deal an additional 1d6 Psychic damage

Foreshadowed Blows
Duration: 3 rounds
Target: Self
When using the Extra Attack feature you may use this power as a bonus action to cause one extra attack to gain a advantage on the attack roll. On the following 2 rounds your attacks gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls.

Since it's a bonus action Cast they can't off-hand a third attack in a given round, so you'd have to design their powers to trigger smite levels of damage on average over a given 3 round period (which means more damage in round 3+). And most players would either versatile, great weapon, or sword and board. Though Psychic Archers would be pretty awesome, too.

Then you could create powers that expend the duration of continuing effects for bursts. Or even create that as part of Foreshadowed Blows or Mind Slice, where the player can "Expend their Psionic Focus on the Power" to increase the effect, immediately.

Could be cool. And it would definitely be a heck of a lot different from Paladins, Eldritch Knights, and other casting melee characters!

Gnomes2169
2015-06-18, 12:56 AM
Lol, hey, you're a good designer, man, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em. Psychic powers aren't spells and have never been treated exactly the same as them (3.5 got as close as D&D ever got to calling powers "spells," and that caused mechanically disastrous problems not to mention the fluff issues).

I... really don't see this, actually. The 3.5 implementation was still unique in flavor and mechanics, despite following a level 1-9 scaling gate between powers. Not only that, but the psionic focus and level scaling restrictions worked smoothly, and were likely some of the most intuitive and balanced subsystems for such a flexible play style. I think you are thinking more along the lines of the 3.0 psionics system, which I shall not be defending at all, ever, as far as mechanical problems go.


Yes, you could design a new Psion class, with class features that are unique enough to stop being compared with Wizards and Sorcerers, with a spell list that is theirs and no one else's, but at the end of the day it would still be a "full caster class" and not a "psionic class." If you get what I mean.

Posting this just once. Psionics is magic. It has always been magic. It was just a different kind with rules that once made it completely broken compared to all other kinds of magic. But it was still magic, so there wasn't actually a reason to differentiate it so very much. If 3.5 proved anything, it was that you could have a system that didn't change everything and rely on clunky, non-intuitive mechanics and yet still keep it unique in both flavor and style. For psionics, this was done with power points. Despite still having to level up to gain their most powerful techniques, the journey and resources they used once they reached the top were unique to psionics in general despite the spell-point system already existing in 3.5. Yeah. It's been a variant for quite a while. And yet everyone associates it with psionics simply because of how integral it was to the system itself.

For psionics, spell points is not a variant. It is the standard. And that will always set it apart from your normal "full spellcaster." It's your "psionic full caster," not divine or arcane, but psionic. And it will always have its own niche and feel.

If psionic to you means something like the clunky and broken 2e implementation, then I'm sorry, but I just can't deliver it here.


I said something in the Homebrewed Psion thread that I think could be really interesting: Kill Concentration for Psionics.

Instead, have longer lasting effects have shorter, set, durations with the ability to stack. 3-5 rounds tops. It would definitely make Psionicists a different breed of spellcaster, since most players would focus on combat buffing and debuffing to make the best use of their lack of concentration effects.

For psions in particular, I don't think that removing concentration entirely would be the wisest of all ideas. Reducing how many effects require it, and giving them a work-around (see the psionic focus options I already gave them), sure. But there are still many, many powers that, to properly be used and expended, are too powerful to remove the concentration and still allow them to work the entire duration without some kind of stacking limiter. As for in-combat buffing and debuffing, you typically only need it to last 3-5 rounds, and concentration prevents you from stacking the inflicted blindness with the paralysis while making yourself/ your allies superbuff and undying.

However, psionic warrior has some potential to go concentration-less. As their powers are all supposed to be in-combat anyway (where the psion is supposed to rely on their powers for everything), and almost all psionic warrior powers are self-buffing, so team-play and enemy debuffing abuse isn't a problem.


And then you could make Psionic Warriors fling out short-duration smite benefits as their damage increasing ability.

Mental Slice
Duration: 3 rounds
Target: Self
When using the Extra Attack feature you may use this power as a bonus action to cause one extra attack to deal an additional 2d6 Psychic Damage. On the following 2 rounds, your weapon attacks deal an additional 1d6 Psychic damage

Foreshadowed Blows
Duration: 3 rounds
Target: Self
When using the Extra Attack feature you may use this power as a bonus action to cause one extra attack to gain a advantage on the attack roll. On the following 2 rounds your attacks gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls.

Since it's a bonus action Cast they can't off-hand a third attack in a given round, so you'd have to design their powers to trigger smite levels of damage on average over a given 3 round period (which means more damage in round 3+). And most players would either versatile, great weapon, or sword and board. Though Psychic Archers would be pretty awesome, too.

... And I may very well be stealing these. The first one for psi-war and the second for the monk. However, the language will be changed from Extra Attack feature to Attack action, since the feature is never really called out by... anything but the classes that grant it and the feature itself. It's a subset of the "make an attack" action, after all. :smalltongue:


Then you could create powers that expend the duration of continuing effects for bursts. Or even create that as part of Foreshadowed Blows or Mind Slice, where the player can "Expend their Psionic Focus on the Power" to increase the effect, immediately.

Could be cool. And it would definitely be a heck of a lot different from Paladins, Eldritch Knights, and other casting melee characters!
And then there is this bit... and I must say that the idea of making specific powers that allow you to expend your psionic focus to increase/ hasten its effect intrigues me. I may very well just end up stealing that idea shamelessly. :smallbiggrin:

Steampunkette
2015-06-18, 01:39 AM
For the attack action thing: That's why I was thinking of using extra attack. To shift things around on some of the spells to create a minimum required use. You have to hit once, bonus action cast, hit again. Possibly with stronger effects than spells that affect the whole attack action, since only the 2nd attack gains the benefit in the first turn.

Could be neat. But I also highly suggest using lots of reaction spells. Offensive, defensive, and otherwise!

eleazzaar
2015-06-18, 10:57 AM
For what it's worth, here's the subjective, big picture of how I saw 3.5 psions:

Wizards had power, and potentially tons of specific spells at their disposal, but they were not very flexible. In most cases one spell fit one problem, and you had to prepare you spells ahead of time. The sorcerer moved towards less paperwork by making casting spontaneous, but it lost a lot of versatility in the limited number of spells known. The psion on the other hand, had all the spontaneity of the sorcerer-- and more, with power points you could painlessly use spells of the level you wanted. But more importantly as a general rule a single power was more flexible in it's application with one or more different ways you could augment it.

So that's what stood out -- the Psion had maximum spontaneity, and a lot of flexibility without a wizard's bookkeeping. It may not have been as flexible and versatile as a wizard who has a chance of preparing, but the Psion was flexible enough that it didn't feel like a second-class caster-- like the sorcerer did.

But moving to 5e, all the prepared casters are quite a bit more spontaneous, and the sorcerers now alone get the flexibility of metamagic. I feel like to have the same feel as previous psionic relative to other classes we can't just do the minimum conversion to 5e, with powerpoints, and general 5e conventions. It needs some thing new to again be notably more spontaneous and flexible than the other casters, with a managable power list.

What exactly that should be, i don't know, but adding more at-will powers like the warlock seem fitting.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-26, 07:54 PM
Alright, so far so derp. Most of the psion subclasses have their first versions sketched out (pending future balancing), and posting here so that I can find the thread easier on my phone and hopefully finish them up tonight. Yaaaay.

PotatoGolem
2015-06-27, 12:23 PM
Going from the meta-issues to a very specific balance point: Unbreaking Creation seems too strong. It's the (phenomenal) 10th-level Conjurer ability, but four levels earlier and better.

Also, I'm very wary of Focus Concentration and other concentration workarounds. Concentration is the biggest limit on casters this edition, and a full caster that can avoid that limit is way too potentially gamebreaking.

Steampunkette
2015-06-27, 05:08 PM
I'm actually not worried about Focus Concentration at all. In fact it seems to me like you could give it to them at level 6, as written, without any balance issues at all...

You just have to design the Psionic Powers with Concentration to be weaker individually than Arcane and Divine concentration powers to offset the benefit of using more than one, simultaneously. Something like 60-70% as powerful/useful over the duration. They also still need to have concentration checks to maintain, I think, even though they're not actively locking the psionicist from casting a second one.

PotatoGolem
2015-06-27, 06:59 PM
Those two powers combine to be REALLY good though. A Shaper can always maintain two summons, and will never lose concentration on them. Unless the Metacreativity minionmancy powers are a lot weaker than the existing spells, Shapers are going to be by far the best minionmancers.

ThermalSlapShot
2015-06-27, 07:28 PM
I have seen a few of them rolling around the internet, and honestly, I have to automatically oppose any 5e psionics system that makes the Psion (and other psionic classes) a spellcaster, who uses all the same rules as other spellcasters.

Definitely this.

Though Psionics, Arcane, and Divine can all be considered a type of magic (general term not in game core magic) I feel that each type can be justified as their own thing.

We already have Arcane and Divine subtle differences and I think having Psionics as the third, with major differences, will do the game a great service.

You could call all of them casters in a general sense that they use what is considered magic (general term from our world) but then again I could see manifester being applied to Psionic, Arcane Magic, and Divine Magic.

A wizard is a manifester of Arcane magic. Arcane magic is a branch of magic that comes directly from the weave. Divine Magic is magic that comes from a deity level entity that bestows it upon a follower or lesser being. And Psionics is the manifestation of abilities without the use of a higher power or the weave, using ones own power to manifest abilities.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-27, 07:55 PM
Those two powers combine to be REALLY good though. A Shaper can always maintain two summons, and will never lose concentration on them. Unless the Metacreativity minionmancy powers are a lot weaker than the existing spells, Shapers are going to be by far the best minionmancers.

Actually, the shaper can't maintain two summons with no chance of losing them. They have to expend and not regain their psionic focus to get a power without concentration, and then Unbreaking Creation is only able to be used if you are currently maintaining your psionic focus. So the combo doesn't work out all too well.

And... yeah, for the most part, shapers will only be able to make a single, slightly scaling construct (astral construct) or a single higher-base-level construct/ ooze (with a max CR of 8). On top of that, none of their "summons" remain after their duration expires, so unless one of your friends is planar binding it (shaper will not get access to planar binding or anything similar), you can't just make an infinite amount of summons given enough time like other minionmancers.

Also, to address the critiscism of Unbreaking Creation... to benefit from it, you have to not spend your psionic focus on anything, or to immediately regain your psionic focus if you do (and since minion-mancy requires spending your bonus action to command your summons, and it also requires a different bonus action to regain your psionic focus, that means you can't command it and regain focus immediately). So it's not really as useful as the always and forever on conjuration specialist's ability. Though coming up with a different focus for level 6 (say, moving Armored Constructs to level 6, making it cost expending your psionic focus and reducing the HP boost to just your psion level) and moving Unbreaking Creation it to level 10 is something I had been considering anyway... and thinking about it some more is really likely a good idea. Should probably see that by the end if tonight.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-28, 03:53 AM
Alright, that is everything as far as the Psion goes... And I had to mess with the background a bit to get all of that to fit. It is now almost utterly devoid of humor and details about PF classes.

:c

PotatoGolem
2015-06-28, 11:09 AM
Requiring a bonus action to command your minions is a significant balancing factor that helps even it out with magic summoning, since none of the "Conjure X" spells require a bonus action to command. That seems pretty balanced to me. It's not in the OP, though- I'd make it clear in the shaper description (or bolded or something in the power description), since it's a big change from magical summoning.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-28, 02:37 PM
Requiring a bonus action to command your minions is a significant balancing factor that helps even it out with magic summoning, since none of the "Conjure X" spells require a bonus action to command. That seems pretty balanced to me. It's not in the OP, though- I'd make it clear in the shaper description (or bolded or something in the power description), since it's a big change from magical summoning.

Since that is listed in the spell (or in this case power) description and not the sub-system description, I would think that it isn't mentioned in the class/ subclass itself. :smalltongue:

I'll add it to the power description, but in a way that dares to hope that someone looking at the class online can read basic things. And with an astrisk that leads to a spoiler that is sure to point out the difference.

PotatoGolem
2015-06-28, 04:35 PM
Well, that's a tad passive-aggressive. My point was that you came out with "obviously this is balanced because psionic summons require a bonus action to command." Since you don't have powers listed, there's no way for anyone who isn't you to know that, is there? If you want critiques on the class, all that our ability to read basic things can give us is what you actually write down.

Gnomes2169
2015-06-28, 05:19 PM
Well, that's a tad passive-aggressive. My point was that you came out with "obviously this is balanced because psionic summons require a bonus action to command." Since you don't have powers listed, there's no way for anyone who isn't you to know that, is there? If you want critiques on the class, all that our ability to read basic things can give us is what you actually write down.

Sorry... I'd actually forgotten that Summon X spells didn't require a bonus action to command when I made the original reply. I'd just remembered how animate dead worked, so assumed that all summons required bonus actions, and the original reply of how the psionic summons worked was based on that false assumption. However, since manifesting is such a large part of the class (and there will be quite a few differences between it and spellcasting "equivalents"), perhaps I should just finish all of the powers before asking for feedback... otherwise, all you have to go on is assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions.

PotatoGolem
2015-06-28, 07:45 PM
No worries. Minion control is handled in a ton of different ways in this edition- there's minions that require actions, bonus actions, and no actions to control (AFAIK, there's nothing you control with reactions). It's a bit of a mess.

Steampunkette
2015-06-28, 08:59 PM
I'd kind of like to see a Minionmancer class who winds up devoting almost all of their actions to their pets. And, specifically, who creates a bunch of pets that can only attack as reactions. Sprinkle 6 of them around the battlefield which create 5ft difficult terrain around themselves and can react to enemies passing them or entering their squares and it would make for a very different form of battlefield control!

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-06-29, 12:50 PM
I'd kind of like to see a Minionmancer class who winds up devoting almost all of their actions to their pets. And, specifically, who creates a bunch of pets that can only attack as reactions. Sprinkle 6 of them around the battlefield which create 5ft difficult terrain around themselves and can react to enemies passing them or entering their squares and it would make for a very different form of battlefield control!

I like the imagery. If we follow the same logic that wizards dropped with the PHB errata that says your companion doesn't need your permission to AoO, then i don't see an issue with summons and minions and undead doing the same. Apologies for the surplus of shorthand.

@ Gnomes2169: still overlooking what you have mapped out for the psion. I like how there are several things that were part of either prestige classes feats or even originally powers out of 3.5 being used as features. I'll either do an edit or a new post with the blow-by-blow.

As it stands, i am the only one in my group who is actually excited at the idea of psionics dropping into 5e. Some are older players with a bad taste in there mouth, others are newer players who decided to look up the 3.0 psionics handbook and immediately decided that psionics are OP and never will be a real respectable mechanic. And then i have the new guy stuck in the middle, so its been fun.:smallannoyed: