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ZenBear
2015-06-21, 11:33 AM
Templar

The Templar is a fighter who has sworn their service to a deity or belief system. These holy warriors are not leaders but soldiers, followers of a path and guardians of those who walk it with them. Their devotion is rewarded with divine power in the form of spells and enhanced vigor and stamina.

Spellcasting

Cantrips
At 3rd level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.

Preparing and Casting Spells
The Eldritch Knight table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. At 3rd level, you may choose one spell to prepare. At 7th you may choose two, at 13th you may choose three, and at 17th you may choose four. The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of cleric spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, as the power of your spells comes from your devotion to your deity. Ritual Casting
You can cast a cleric spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell prepared.

Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your cleric spells.

Domain Spells
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the cleric class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it. Your choice grants you domain spells. You gain your 1st level domain spells at 3rd level, your 2nd level domain spells at 7th level, your 3rd level domain spells at 13th level, and your 4th level domain spells at 17th level. Once you gain a domain spell, you always have it prepared, and it doesnít count against the number of spells you can prepare each day.
If you have a domain spell that doesnít appear on the cleric spell list, the spell is nonetheless a cleric spell for you.

Vigilance
In order to gain the powers of a Templar you had to endure an overnight Vigil. Your deity has granted you a boon for your devotion.
Starting at 3rd level, you no longer need rest every 24 hours but instead can stave off fatigue for up to 72 hours before suffering any ill effects. You also only need three-quarters as much rest to gain the benefits of a long rest (6 hours sleep, 3 hours trance).

Enduring Faith
Starting at 7th level, any time you cast a spell you gain temporary hit points equal to your Fighter level.
Additionally, you learn the spell Compelled Duel. You always have it prepared and it does not count against the number of spells you can prepare each day.

Baneful Strike
At 10th level, your attacks bear the fury of your deity. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.

Divine Resurgence
Starting at 15th level, when you use Second Wind, add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of of creatures equal to the level of the spell slot used within 60ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount.

Chosen Warrior
Your deity graces you with uncanny prowess in combat. Beginning at 18th level, you are always under the effects of a Bless spell.

***

Inquisitor

Some rogues find their calling through service to a higher power. These rogues are charged by their deity to safeguard the faith from threats both without and within.

Spellcasting

Cantrips
At 3rd level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.

Preparing and Casting Spells
The Arcane Trickster table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. At 3rd level, you may choose one spell to prepare. At 7th you may choose two, at 13th you may choose three, and at 17th you may choose four. The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of cleric spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, as the power of your spells comes from your devotion to your deity. Ritual Casting
You can cast a cleric spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell prepared.

Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your cleric spells.

Domain Spells
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the cleric class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it. Your choice grants you domain spells. You gain your 1st level domain spells at 3rd level, your 2nd level domain spells at 7th level, your 3rd level domain spells at 13th level, and your 4th level domain spells at 17th level. Once you gain a domain spell, you always have it prepared, and it doesnít count against the number of spells you can prepare each day.
If you have a domain spell that doesnít appear on the cleric spell list, the spell is nonetheless a cleric spell for you.

Accusation
At 3rd level, you can sentence an enemy to death by divine judgement. As a bonus action on your turn, you can designate a creature you can see. Until you designate another target, any of your attacks against that target can trigger Sneak Attack. You also gain advantage on Insight checks against the target of this ability.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.

Nobody Expects the Inquisitor
Starting at 9th level, if you are hidden from a creature when you cast a spell on it, the creature has disadvantage on any saving throw it makes against the spell this turn.

Interrogation
At 13th level, you learn the spell Detect Thoughts. You always have it prepared and it does not count against the number of spells you can prepare each day. While the spell is active, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of Charisma for Persuasion and Intimidation skill checks, and in place of Intelligence for the contested check should a target try to resist you.

Soul Laid Bare
At 17th level, you can cast Detect Thoughts at-will without expending spell slots or material components.
***
Edit 6/23/15:

Changed Baneful Strike to be identical to Eldritch Strike. The original concept was cool, but too many saving throws slows down the game too much. The original EK ability works just as well for the Templar.

Moved Insight Advantage to level 3 so Inquisitors feel the effect of their subclass choice outside of combat sooner in their career.

Swapped Zone of Truth at 13 for Detect Thoughts. Perhaps this isn't necessary, but I think the spell works just as well for the class, if not better. Might change back later. Also added the ability to use WIS instead of CHA for Persuade/Intimidate while spell is active, and WIS instead of INT for resist contest. Less MAD is always good.

Soul Laid Bare is now Detect Thoughts at-will. This is why I swapped ZoT for DT at 13. The wording I originally used for SLB was exactly what DT does, only lesser.

Edit: 6/24/15:

Revised and fleshed out Spellcasting section.

Added a limited number of uses per short rest to Accusation and narrowed Advantage on Insight to only work on targets affected by Accusation.

Edit: 4/5/16

Revised Templar features. Removed Perception bonus at 3, changed Wisdom save prof at 7 to temp HP on spell casting. Divine Resurgence under review.

Edit: 6/21/18

Divine Resurgence revised.

Eno Remnant
2015-06-23, 03:48 AM
I donít know a lot of d20 games outside of 3.5 (D20 Modern and Star Wars Saga are about it), so I donít recognise which this is for and canít effectively judge it. Iíd guess Pathfinder (Perception being my only clue), but couldnít say.

Despite this, the classes youíve detailed intrigued me. So I took the liberty of converting them into 3.5, and am putting them here as theyíre basically just your idea in a different format.

And while I may not know much about Pathfinder, I think I can safely judge these in the scope of 3.5, so Iíll offer my thoughts as best I can.



The Templar seems to convert a Fighter into a Paladin, by the look of things. They gain enhanced healing, some divine spellcasting and divine buffs.

The spellcasting is nice, because itís spellcasting. You really canít go wrong there.

Vigilance is a nice thing to have, even if it has no major impact on the playstyle. It fills in one of the Fighterís key weaknesses (itís lack of perceptive capability), and lets them fill the role of night watchman more effectively.

Honor Bound gives the Fighter what most melee classes try to achieve but usually lack: effective tanking options. In a turn-based, magic-heavy system like this, tanking is generally infeasible for a number of reasons (see the various threads about it on these forums). The ability to draw an enemyís attention to you is invaluable, and the improvement of one of the Fighterís weak saving throws is nice for tanking spells.

Baneful Strike is neat, but perhaps a little underpowered for the level. 1d6 might be better.

Divine Resurgence looks to be in-combat self-healing. Most of the guys on these forums frown upon this, and rightly so, but Iíd say adding your Wisdom modifier to it makes it a lot better. Whether or not itís worth using is not something I could say, since I donít actually know Second Wind, but if itís anything like Lay on Hands itíll probably still be underwhelming for anything other than post-combat healing.

Chosen Warrior seems decidedly meh. From what little I know of Pathfinder, Bless is about as powerful as it is in 3.5. With that in mind, itís supremely underwhelming for an 18th level ability. Speaking in terms of 3.5 spells (which, I believe, are largely the same at Pathfinder spells), Divine Favour or Divine Power would be a better choice.



The Inquisitor looks a little like a cross between a Good-aligned Assassin and one of the inquisition-focused PrCs in 3.5 (second is a tad obvious).

The spellcasting is, again, nice to have. Though in the case of a Rogue it probably makes you more MAD than if you built a Wisdom-focused Fighter (which is a lot more doable than you might think).

Accusation seems like itís very powerful for its level. Sneak Attack without having to sneak? Where do I sign up? I take it bonus actions are free actions or swift actions, and if theyíre the prior some genius is just going to full-attack with a bow and change the target between attacks. I would suggest limiting the ability to one target per encounter, or require a full-round action to change the target.

Nobody Expects the Inquisitor builds on your spellcasting, so again, nice to have. Bonus points for the Monty Python reference.

Interrogation gives you Zone of Truth. Youíre an Inquisitor, so that makes sense. Not much else to say on that score.

Soul Laid Bare, on the other hand, is immense. Being able to swipe all of a personís secrets is 9th level spell territory. Perhaps one secret per point of your Wisdom modifier would be better. Or just limited uses per day.

As for adding another feature at 3rd level to add Wisdom to Intimidate/Persuasion, Iíd say it wouldnít be a bad thing. Thereís nothing wrong with the party face being better at what they do. However, I would suggest that instead of adding Wisdom to those skills, you replace Charisma with Wisdom for the purpose of using said skills. It allows the party face Rogue to be less MAD while still doing their job.



3.5 conversions

Templar

Lose: Bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th and 18th level.

Gain:

Spellcasting: A Templar casts spells like a Paladin, but draws them from the Cleric spell list.

Divine Mandate: You gain a Cleric domain, and count as a Cleric of half your class level for the purposes of its power. You gain an additional spell slot at 3rd, 7th, 13th and 19th level for each spell level you can cast at.

Vigilance: At 3rd level, you gain Spot and Listen as class skills. If you already had them as class skills, you may add half of the maximum possible skill ranks to it (without exceeding the maximum). You no longer need to rest every 24 hours, and may instead wait up to 72 hours before suffering ill effects (of which there arenít any in D&D 3.5 without houserules). You need only sleep for three-quarters of the usual duration required (6 hours).

Honour Bound: At 7th level, you gain a good Will save. Additionally, you add Mindless Rage to your list of spells known, and gain an additional spell slot that may only be used to cast this spell.

Baneful Strike: Unchanged from the original, except that Wisdom is replaced by Will and it deals a 1d6 penalty instead of 1d4.

Divine Resurgence: At 18th level, you gain to ability to Lay on Hands as a Paladin of half your class level. You add your Wisdom modifier to the number of hit points you may heal with this ability.

Chosen Warrior: Beginning at 18th level, you are constantly under the effect of a Divine Power spell.



Inquistor

Lose: Trap sense OR Special Abilities (Still undecided on that. Maybe both)

Gain:

Spellcasting: You cast spells as a Spellthief, except that you draw spells from the Cleric spell list.

Divine Mandate: As the Templar class feature.

Accusation: Starting as 3rd level, you may, as a free action, target a single opponent that can be affect by sneak attack. You may use your Sneak Attack class feature against that opponent without meeting the conditions normally required to do so. This ability may only be used once per encounter.

Nobody Expects the Inquisitor: Starting a 9th level, when you cast a spell that has a target while hiding, the targetís saving throw against that spell has a -5 penalty.

Interrogation: At 13th level, you gain Skill Focus (Sense Motive) as a bonus feat. Additionally, you add Zone of Truth to your list of spells known, and gain an additional spell slot that may only be used to cast this spell.

Soul Laid Bare: Designate one creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or more. That creature must make a Will save. If it succeeds, it is aware of your presence, but not necessarily your exact location. If it fails, you may read their memories as though they were under the effect of Programmed Amnesia. This ability may only be used once per day.



I hope what poor advice I was able to give will be helpful, and that you like my conversions :smallsmile:

ZenBear
2015-06-23, 08:41 AM
Sorry I forgot to clarify, this is for 5E. Edited title to show this.

I appreciate your feedback! I'm on my phone right now so I can't respond to everything, but for starters:
Soul Laid Bare is the capstone power, so I would say it should be equivalent to a 9th level spell since spellcasters have them by that level. That being said, a friend pointed out that Detect Thoughts is a second level spell that does exactly this. Gonna need to rework it.

Ziegander
2015-06-23, 04:21 PM
Templar

The Templar is a fighter who has sworn their service to a deity or belief system. These holy warriors are not leaders but soldiers, followers of a path and guardians of those who walk it with them. Their devotion is rewarded with divine power in the form of spells and enhanced awareness and stamina.

Spellcasting

Cantrips and Spell Slots as Eldritch Knight, but utilizes the cleric spell list.

Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You must choose a Cleric Domain from which to gain spells. You also may prepare one additional spell at 3rd, 7th, 13th, and 19th levels. You may select any spell from the Cleric spell list for which you have an appropriate spell slot.

Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, as the power of your spells comes from your devotion to your deity.

Vigilance
In order to gain the powers of a Templar you had to endure an overnight Vigil. Your deity has granted you a boon for your devotion. At level 3 you gain proficiency in Perception. If you already have proficiency, you double it. This does not stack with Expertise. You no longer need rest every 24 hours but instead can stave off fatigue for up to 72 hours before suffering any ill effects. You also only need three-quarters as much rest to gain the benefits of a long rest (6 hours sleep, 3 hours trance).

Honor Bound
At 7th level, you gain proficiency in Wisdom saving throws. Additionally, you learn the spell Compelled Duel. You always have it prepared and it does not count against the number of spells you can prepare each day.

Baneful Strike
At 10th level, your attacks bear the fury of your deity. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature must make a Wisdom saving throw. If it fails, the creature must roll 1d4 and subtract the result from its next attack or saving throw.

Divine Resurgence
At 15th level, when you use Second Wind, you add your Wisdom modifier to the total hit points you recover and you may expend 1 spell slot and choose a number of creatures equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) within 60ft that you can see. Those creatures are also healed for the same amount.

Chosen Warrior
Your deity graces you with uncanny prowess in combat. Beginning at 18th level, you are always under the effects of a Bless spell.

I am in love with this archetype.

ZenBear
2015-06-23, 10:02 PM
I am in love with this archetype.

Thank you so much! It really warms my heart to hear my ideas are appreciated. :)

Also, bump to advertise edits. Please evaluate and critique honestly!

PotatoGolem
2015-06-24, 12:19 AM
I really, really like the Templar (the Inquisitor is neat too, but the Templar is particularly cool). One issue- you switch back and forth between "spells known," which is the mechanic the EK and AT have, and "spells prepared," like a cleric or paladin. Is this a prepared caster? And if so, how many spells can they prepare? Needs clarification one way or another.

Leuku
2015-06-24, 03:09 AM
Vigilance
In order to gain the powers of a Templar you had to endure an overnight Vigil. Your deity has granted you a boon for your devotion. At level 3 you gain proficiency in Perception. If you already have proficiency, you double it. This does not stack with Expertise. You no longer need rest every 24 hours but instead can stave off fatigue for up to 72 hours before suffering any ill effects. You also only need three-quarters as much rest to gain the benefits of a long rest (6 hours sleep, 3 hours trance).[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Spell casting and proficiency/double proficiency in what is perhaps the most useful skill in the game? I feel this may be better than the Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond. I'd feel more comfortable if this feature was diverged from skills, such as:

"You are always considered standing watch/guard, even as you do other activities. When you roll initiative or at the start of a surprise round, you may immediately draw, sheathe, don, or doff any weapon/shield you are currently carrying, or is within arms reach and isn't being carried by anyone else."


Honor Bound
At 7th level, you gain proficiency in Wisdom saving throws. Additionally, you learn the spell Compelled Duel. You always have it prepared and it does not count against the number of spells you can prepare each day.

This is a better version of the Rogue's 15th level feature Slippery Mind. I recommend getting rid of the proficiency and letting you cast Compelled Duel once per day without expending a spell slot.

Otherwise, looks good.

***


Inquisitor

[QUOTE]Accusation
At 3rd level, you can sentence an enemy to death by divine judgement. As a bonus action on your turn, you can designate a creature you can see. Until you designate another target, any of your attacks against that target can trigger Sneak Attack. Additionally, you gain advantage on Insight checks.

No limit? The Swashbuckler's 3rd level ability is already considered a big boon to the Rogue. Accusation doesn't even have melee as a restriction, so a longbow elf Inquisitor Rogue could designate an enemy 120 feet away and make sneak attacks against him all day long, no restriction. And when the target is dead, switch targets without skipping a beat.

I would make it limited use, perhaps via Short Rest ala Wis mod, or consume spell slots.

Also, when granting "Advantage/Disadvantage" via feature, there are some clear trends. An advantage/disadvantage-granting feature must either be: 1) Niche, 2) Conditional, or 3) high level.

Niche examples: Barbarian's 2nd level Danger Sense - only works against effects one can see and has condition restrictions. Barbarian's 7th level Feral Instinct - only on Initiative. Bard's 6th level Countercharm - only against Frightened and Charmed and has limited range. Ranger's 1st level Favored Enemy - Obvious.

Conditional examples: Eldritch Knight's 10th level Eldritch Strike and Rogue's 9th level Magical Ambush.

High Level: Abjurer Wizard's 14th level Capstone - advantage against all spells. Rogue's 18th level Elusive Mind (kind of) - no attack can have advantage against you.

A flat, permanent advantage to one of the most commonly used skills in the game is counter to 5e design. I recommend making it Insight Checks only against the target of your limited-use Accusation.

And that's that.

ZenBear
2015-06-24, 11:15 AM
I really, really like the Templar (the Inquisitor is neat too, but the Templar is particularly cool). One issue- you switch back and forth between "spells known," which is the mechanic the EK and AT have, and "spells prepared," like a cleric or paladin. Is this a prepared caster? And if so, how many spells can they prepare? Needs clarification one way or another.
Edited for clarity. You know all cleric spells, Domain spells are always prepared, and you gain additional prepared spells of your choice at several levels.

Vigilance
In order to gain the powers of a Templar you had to endure an overnight Vigil. Your deity has granted you a boon for your devotion. At level 3 you gain proficiency in Perception. If you already have proficiency, you double it. This does not stack with Expertise. You no longer need rest every 24 hours but instead can stave off fatigue for up to 72 hours before suffering any ill effects. You also only need three-quarters as much rest to gain the benefits of a long rest (6 hours sleep, 3 hours trance).

Hmm. Spell casting and proficiency/double proficiency in what is perhaps the most useful skill in the game? I feel this may be better than the Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond. I'd feel more comfortable if this feature was diverged from skills, such as:

"You are always considered standing watch/guard, even as you do other activities. When you roll initiative or at the start of a surprise round, you may immediately draw, sheathe, don, or doff any weapon/shield you are currently carrying, or is within arms reach and isn't being carried by anyone else."



This is a better version of the Rogue's 15th level feature Slippery Mind. I recommend getting rid of the proficiency and letting you cast Compelled Duel once per day without expending a spell slot.

Otherwise, looks good.

***


Inquisitor



No limit? The Swashbuckler's 3rd level ability is already considered a big boon to the Rogue. Accusation doesn't even have melee as a restriction, so a longbow elf Inquisitor Rogue could designate an enemy 120 feet away and make sneak attacks against him all day long, no restriction. And when the target is dead, switch targets without skipping a beat.

I would make it limited use, perhaps via Short Rest ala Wis mod, or consume spell slots.

Also, when granting "Advantage/Disadvantage" via feature, there are some clear trends. An advantage/disadvantage-granting feature must either be: 1) Niche, 2) Conditional, or 3) high level.

Niche examples: Barbarian's 2nd level Danger Sense - only works against effects one can see and has condition restrictions. Barbarian's 7th level Feral Instinct - only on Initiative. Bard's 6th level Countercharm - only against Frightened and Charmed and has limited range. Ranger's 1st level Favored Enemy - Obvious.

Conditional examples: Eldritch Knight's 10th level Eldritch Strike and Rogue's 9th level Magical Ambush.

High Level: Abjurer Wizard's 14th level Capstone - advantage against all spells. Rogue's 18th level Elusive Mind (kind of) - no attack can have advantage against you.

A flat, permanent advantage to one of the most commonly used skills in the game is counter to 5e design. I recommend making it Insight Checks only against the target of your limited-use Accusation.

And that's that.

Edited Accusation to be a limited resource. Dialed down Insight Advantage to be a bit more niche. I definitely think it is at least within line of Danger Sense if not inferior.

I'm hesitant to ditch the Perception bonus because it feels very integral to the Templar identity. Perhaps I could switch it for dark vision or even Devil's Sight, but that seems unnecessary when you have access to the Light cantrip.

The combination of abilities is more powerful than Sword Bond, but it's mostly useless in combat whereas SB makes you immune to disarm, which is certainly handy. I'm not balancing the Templar around the EK though, being fairly unanimously considered a subpar or even "trap" subclass. This has to stand up against the Paladin, being a fellow "Divine Warrior" archetype. I don't think it's as strong, but it has enough unique perks and flavor that people would consider playing it instead.

On that note, is Honor Bound any stronger than, or even on par with, Aura of Protection? Or Aura of Warding? OoA Paladin gets both by level 7.

PotatoGolem
2015-06-24, 12:26 PM
It's still a bit vague. Do you get a number of spells prepared per day equal to the spells known of an EK? But at certain levels, you can prepare more? It actually doesn't say how many spells you have prepared at all.

ZenBear
2015-06-24, 01:34 PM
It's still a bit vague. Do you get a number of spells prepared per day equal to the spells known of an EK? But at certain levels, you can prepare more? It actually doesn't say how many spells you have prepared at all.

3rd level you get to prepare one spell from the cleric spell list and you have both 1st level spells from your Domain always prepared. 3 spells prepared.

7th level you get to prepare 2 spells and have your 1st and 2nd level Domain spells prepared. Templar also has Compelled Duel. 6 spells Inq, 7 spells Templar.

13th level 3 spells, 1/2/3rd level Domain. Inq gets Detect Thoughts. 10 spells prepared.

17th level 4 spells, 1/2/3/4th level Domain. 13 total spells prepared.

I'll work on the wording of the Spells section to make it more clear.