PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Spellsword (D&D 5th) Sorcerer Subclass.



Forum Explorer
2015-06-25, 02:08 AM
So I'm wanting to create a sorcerer subclass, that's based around being armored, and hitting people with both a sword and magic. But mostly magic.


Level 1: Spellsword: You gain proficiency with simple and martial weapons, Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor. Your currently wielded weapon is considered magical for the purposes of damage reduction/immunity.

Level 6: Infused Blade: You may spend 2 sorcery points when you make a weapon attack to gain a bonus to hit and damage equal to your charisma modifier. If you hit, you may cast a spell as a bonus action if it can and does target the creature hit by your attack. However, the spell will only effect the target you hit, even if it normally effects more (a fireball will only hurt him and so on and so forth)

Level 14: Spell Shield: You may spend your reaction to an attack directed at you expend a spell slot of any level when you are attacked. You gain ChaxSpell Level temporary hit points, that last 1 minute. If these hit points are not all eliminated, you do not have to take a concentration check to the attack that triggered the reaction.

Level 18: Spell Storm: At the cost of 5 sorcery points, you may make three attacks, each which may have a different spell channeled through them as per Spell Slash. These attacks may be split up between targets, so long as they are in range.


So how'd I do? Too powerful? Too weak? Things don't work well?

ZenBear
2015-06-25, 09:16 AM
Level 1: Spellsword: You gain proficiency with simple and martial weapons, Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor. Your currently wielded weapon is considered magical for the purposes of damage reduction/immunity.

Level 6: Spell Slash: You channel a spell through your weapon and into an opponent. At the cost of 2 sorcery points and the spell in question. The spell must deal damage, and if hit the spell deals that damage to the opponent in addition to the normal weapon damage. No saving throw is granted. However, any secondary effects of that spell do not occur. (For example you can channel a Cloud Kill spell to deal 5d8 poison damage with no save, but no poison cloud occurs.) If an attack misses then the spell is wasted.

Level 14: Spell Shield: You may spend your reaction to an attack directed at you expend a spell slot of any level when you are attacked. You gain ChaxSpell Level temporary hit points, that last 1 minute. If these hit points are not all eliminated, you do not have to take a concentration check to the attack that triggered the reaction.

Level 18: Spell Storm: At the cost of 5 sorcery points, you may make three attacks, each which may have a different spell channeled through them as per Spell Slash. These attacks may be split up between targets, so long as they are in range.


So how'd I do? Too powerful? Too weak? Things don't work well?

A friend of mine is working on his own homebrew of the same name on the Sorcerer chassis as well, so I've had this conversation already.

You need to fluff this out as a Sorcerous Origin, meaning the name of the subclass has to explain in a word or two where the Sorcerer's magic comes from. Calling it "Spellsword" doesn't do this. I advised he call it "Ancestral Weapon" and explain that some magic weapons are so powerful that their power can infect their wielder, and even the wielder's entire bloodline. In his case I suggested at level 1 you select a weapon that is your Ancestral Weapon. You are proficient in this weapon, it counts as magical, you may use your Charisma in place of Strength or Dexterity for attack and damage rolls, and as you level up your weapon gets more powerful with you. For you, if you dislike this 1st level feature, you could instead grant proficiency in all armor, weapon types and shields.

Another thing to consider is this; what does this subclass do as their at-will attack? Do they swing their weapon or cast a cantrip? As it is right now, your homebrew would be better served with a cantrip. The Favored Soul Origin from the article Modifying Classes (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes) grants Extra Attack at 6th level, so I would give that to your homebrew as well. Firebolt does 4d10 (average 22) by 17th level with no modifier at long range, whereas swinging a greatsword twice will deal 4d6+10 (average 24) with a 20 in your attack stat. This makes attacking with your weapon superior to cantrips in a better minimum damage and more chances to hit (two attack rolls means maybe you'll still do some damage instead of one bad roll meaning 0 for the round).

Spell Slash is weird. There aren't a lot of spells with a lot of front-loaded damage. Those that do would probably be better off cast as a spell because most monsters have a higher AC than saving throws. The biggest draw of spells is attacking at range, targeting a saving throw instead of AC, and some kind of status effect or rider. Also, what about something like Melf's Acid Arrow? Does landing this attack automatically guarantee the secondary damage roll with no saving throw? This ability needs more thought.

Spell Shield is poorly worded. Where does concentration come into play? The concept of burning a spell slot for Temp HP on getting hit isn't a bad one, but I can't speak to the balance of your proposed values right now. That's more math and theorycraft than I have time for.

Spell Storm is extremely OP. 3 spells in a single turn? By 18th level that could be a 7th, 8th and 9th level spell in immediate succession. Hit 3 times and cast Meteor Swarm (20d6), Incendiary Cloud (10d8) and Finger of Death (7d8+30). I don't even think the Tarrasque could survive that. Even if this cost all of your Sorcery Points, this would be super OP.

Forum Explorer
2015-06-25, 12:47 PM
A friend of mine is working on his own homebrew of the same name on the Sorcerer chassis as well, so I've had this conversation already.

You need to fluff this out as a Sorcerous Origin, meaning the name of the subclass has to explain in a word or two where the Sorcerer's magic comes from. Calling it "Spellsword" doesn't do this. I advised he call it "Ancestral Weapon" and explain that some magic weapons are so powerful that their power can infect their wielder, and even the wielder's entire bloodline. In his case I suggested at level 1 you select a weapon that is your Ancestral Weapon. You are proficient in this weapon, it counts as magical, you may use your Charisma in place of Strength or Dexterity for attack and damage rolls, and as you level up your weapon gets more powerful with you. For you, if you dislike this 1st level feature, you could instead grant proficiency in all armor, weapon types and shields.

Another thing to consider is this; what does this subclass do as their at-will attack? Do they swing their weapon or cast a cantrip? As it is right now, your homebrew would be better served with a cantrip. The Favored Soul Origin from the article Modifying Classes (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes) grants Extra Attack at 6th level, so I would give that to your homebrew as well. Firebolt does 4d10 (average 22) by 17th level with no modifier at long range, whereas swinging a greatsword twice will deal 4d6+10 (average 24) with a 20 in your attack stat. This makes attacking with your weapon superior to cantrips in a better minimum damage and more chances to hit (two attack rolls means maybe you'll still do some damage instead of one bad roll meaning 0 for the round).

Spell Slash is weird. There aren't a lot of spells with a lot of front-loaded damage. Those that do would probably be better off cast as a spell because most monsters have a higher AC than saving throws. The biggest draw of spells is attacking at range, targeting a saving throw instead of AC, and some kind of status effect or rider. Also, what about something like Melf's Acid Arrow? Does landing this attack automatically guarantee the secondary damage roll with no saving throw? This ability needs more thought.

Spell Shield is poorly worded. Where does concentration come into play? The concept of burning a spell slot for Temp HP on getting hit isn't a bad one, but I can't speak to the balance of your proposed values right now. That's more math and theorycraft than I have time for.

Spell Storm is extremely OP. 3 spells in a single turn? By 18th level that could be a 7th, 8th and 9th level spell in immediate succession. Hit 3 times and cast Meteor Swarm (20d6), Incendiary Cloud (10d8) and Finger of Death (7d8+30). I don't even think the Tarrasque could survive that. Even if this cost all of your Sorcery Points, this would be super OP.


Fluff will come after I get the mechanics worked out, though the ancestral weapon is a great idea.

At will, probably Cantrips. They are ultimately still a Sorcerer, just a weird one that focuses even more on blasting. (Just like an Eldritch Knight is ultimately still a Fighter, doing most of their damage via metal to the face)

Spell Slash does work with Cantrips, so you can effectively attack and cast a cantrip in the same turn. It also lets you do weird things like create single target fireballs. You can still attack at range (with a bow for example) but with heavy armor, you can get up into people's faces if you want. Basically it lets you add a little more front-end damage to a spell at the cost of a potentially weaker spell. Though it does have the advantage of bypassing saving throws (and thus legendary resistances)

For Melf's I'd say the secondary damage is a, well, secondary effect, and thus wouldn't happen.


When you have a concentration spell already in play. Let's say you've cast Dominate Person on someone. Their ally attacks you, and you use Spell Shield. If their attack doesn't break through the temp HP, then you don't need to take a concentration check on Dominate Person.


Spell Storm does require you to still hit with the attacks, but yes, it does create a massive burst of damage. At the cost of almost all your high level spells and sorcery points. And the effects can only be single target. So it does give you a very good way to nova an Ancient dragon. But you've got to save your abilities for it, and then land the attacks as well. And against a horde of goblins it's useless (but then you just use meteor swarm)


Anyways, my big challenges for this subclass is that it can't be stronger then either the dragon sorcerer, or wild mage. Both of which have really niche abilities that honestly don't do much at times.

It also can't be more of a fighter then the Eldritch Knight, so it's primary damage must still be spells.

CantigThimble
2015-06-25, 01:13 PM
So spell slash seems weak to me. You make the spell weaker and spend 2 sorcery points to let you target AC instead of whatever it normally targets. The only time this seems useful is if your Dex/Str is your primary stat rather than your Cha, which doesn't fit with the fighter/MAGE you want this to be. Also, there's a decent chance you're just wasting a lot of magical power if you miss your weapon attack, more than just casting the spell and having it fail. Also, because it only deals the damage of the spell it's basically just paladin smite. Spells are interesting because they do lots of things but with this they only do damage.

How about this:
Infused Blade: You may spend 2 sorcery points when you make a weapon attack to gain a bonus to hit and damage equal to your charisma modifier. If you hit, you may cast a spell as a bonus action if it can and does target the creature hit by your attack.

Forum Explorer
2015-06-25, 01:39 PM
So spell slash seems weak to me. You make the spell weaker and spend 2 sorcery points to let you target AC instead of whatever it normally targets. The only time this seems useful is if your Dex/Str is your primary stat rather than your Cha, which doesn't fit with the fighter/MAGE you want this to be. Also, there's a decent chance you're just wasting a lot of magical power if you miss your weapon attack, more than just casting the spell and having it fail. Also, because it only deals the damage of the spell it's basically just paladin smite. Spells are interesting because they do lots of things but with this they only do damage.

How about this:
Infused Blade: You may spend 2 sorcery points when you make a weapon attack to gain a bonus to hit and damage equal to your charisma modifier. If you hit, you may cast a spell as a bonus action if it can and does target the creature hit by your attack.

That does sound better. I just want to add the caveat that only the creature hit by the spell is affected by the spell cast. Oh, and that the bonus from charisma replaces the normal modifier, not enhancing it. (This is mostly for Spell Storm, which is already really powerful, so I'm fine with making Infused Blade a little weaker to keep Spell Storm in check).

CantigThimble
2015-06-25, 01:43 PM
Well, remember this still costs 2 sorcery points, this needs to be better than just quickening the spell and casting a cantrip. It's VERY resource intensive to do this often. Also, with this wording the spellstorm would only be able to cast one spell.