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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next POISONS instead of POULTICES



Snig
2015-06-25, 11:13 PM
So i'm tweaking my homebrew ranger / assassin, and I had an idea to modify the class skill "Poultices" outlined in Wizards Unearthed Arcana article about modifying classes.

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes

I thought that instead of having it mimic healing potions, I could have it mimic poisons?

POULTICES
At 3rd level, you can create special herbal poultices that have healing power comparable to some potions. You can spend 1 hour gathering herbs and preparing herbal poultices using treated bandages to create a number of such poultices equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can carry a number of poultices at one time equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The poultices you create cannot be applied by anyone but you. After 24 hours, any poultices that you have not used lose their potency.

If you spend 1 minute applying one of your poultices to a wounded humanoid creature, thereby expending its use, that creature regains 1d6 hit points for every two ranger levels you have (rounded up).

Much of the text could remain the same only instead of gathering herbs to heal, i'd gather venom / fungus to craft poisons?

Would this work?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-06-26, 02:43 PM
Would this work?

Yes, of course it would work.

My problems with this are twofold:

1. The assassin gets proficiency with the poisoner's kit at level 3. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to spend an hour scrounging up ingredients and brewing poisons using that proficiency. Especially if you've got a decent survival skill (which might be necessary for the scrounging part).

2. The spell-less ranger was given healing poultices specifically because 'small-scale healing' is part of what makes someone a ranger, and vanilla 5e provides that via ranger spellcasting. Take away enough signature abilities, and you have to start asking "why even bother with ranger levels?" You may as well be a fighter/rogue who brews poisons.

Snig
2015-06-26, 03:03 PM
Yes, of course it would work.

My problems with this are twofold:

1. The assassin gets proficiency with the poisoner's kit at level 3. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to spend an hour scrounging up ingredients and brewing poisons using that proficiency. Especially if you've got a decent survival skill (which might be necessary for the scrounging part).

2. The spell-less ranger was given healing poultices specifically because 'small-scale healing' is part of what makes someone a ranger, and vanilla 5e provides that via ranger spellcasting. Take away enough signature abilities, and you have to start asking "why even bother with ranger levels?" You may as well be a fighter/rogue who brews poisons.

This is exactly what I'm struggling with. But the reason I want Ranger is to go Beastmaster. I will be dipping 3 rogue fit assassinate.

I just thought if I traded poultices for something to improve / help with my poisons it would be a fairly even trade.

Right now crafting potions and poisons is time consuming and doesn't really reap much reward. I'm looking to address that with a homebrew class feature.

Snig
2015-06-27, 05:54 PM
Does anyone think this is a good / balanced idea? Basically what poultices does is grant you a way to craft your wisdom mod number of healing potions during a short rest.

Normally healing potions take days to craft, the same as poisions, so I thought it would be easy to convert it?

Anyone have any ideas?

PotatoGolem
2015-06-28, 04:37 PM
I don't think it's particularly unbalancing. If anything, it might be slightly weaker.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-06-28, 05:26 PM
I don't think it's particularly unbalancing. If anything, it might be slightly weaker.

I concur.

Does the OP want one of us to write it up formally? I'll have a crack.

At 3rd level, you can create special herbal pastes that have harmful effects comparable to some poisons. You can spend 1 hour gathering herbs and preparing pastes to create a number of doses equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). At any one time, you can carry a number of doses equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The pastes you create cannot be applied by anyone but you. After 24 hours, any pastes that you have not used lose their potency.

You can spend 1 action* applying one of your pastes to a melee weapon or three pieces of ammunition, thereby expending its use. The first time a creature is hit by that weapon or piece of ammunition, it must make a Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute and take an additional 1d4 poison damage for every two ranger levels you have (rounded up). If the poison is not delivered within 1 minute of being applied to the weapon, it dries up and loses its potency.

The save DC for this ability is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + you Wisdom** modifier.

* If this ends up being too strong, bump this up to 30 seconds or 1 minute.
**Logically, I think this should be INT, but the game clearly expects rangers to have more WIS...

...with this modified poultice ability, you're trading away half-casting to do something that you could already do (albiet much slower and with a small monetary cost). And yet... with the assassinate ability up your sleeve, this looks almost brokenly good...

Snig
2015-06-28, 07:31 PM
I concur.

Does the OP want one of us to write it up formally? I'll have a crack.

At 3rd level, you can create special herbal pastes that have harmful effects comparable to some poisons. You can spend 1 hour gathering herbs and preparing pastes to create a number of doses equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). At any one time, you can carry a number of doses equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The pastes you create cannot be applied by anyone but you. After 24 hours, any pastes that you have not used lose their potency.

You can spend 1 action* applying one of your pastes to a melee weapon or three pieces of ammunition, thereby expending its use. The first time a creature is hit by that weapon or piece of ammunition, it must make a Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute and take an additional 1d4 poison damage for every two ranger levels you have (rounded up). If the poison is not delivered within 1 minute of being applied to the weapon, it dries up and loses its potency.

The save DC for this ability is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + you Wisdom** modifier.

* If this ends up being too strong, bump this up to 30 seconds or 1 minute.
**Logically, I think this should be INT, but the game clearly expects rangers to have more WIS...

...with this modified poultice ability, you're trading away half-casting to do something that you could already do (albiet much slower and with a small monetary cost). And yet... with the assassinate ability up your sleeve, this looks almost brokenly good...

Well this is defiantly what I had in mind. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this up.

I'd like to hear if others think this is a good trade off for a spell-less Ranger? Really trying to harvest / craft poisons with a poisoners kit is a ridiculously time consuming and expensive for little gain. Not sure why it is that way, and I hope by swapping for this ability won't break anything.

That being said, poultices are akin to healing potions, and they too also have crazy craft times.

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-06-28, 09:37 PM
The biggest issue with poisons for me has been a huge margin of hit and miss scenarios. With it being the most easily shrugged damage types it quickly can fall into the area of 'underpowered'. But it is also one of the few things in the game that allows just about anybody to nova with proper preparation along with all sorts of rider effects that just add to its sheer diversity. If you allow your players to use poisons then you need to make sure you know what your dealing with to keep yourself from completely undercutting a strategy with a single item or allowing them to blow away just about any basic enemy.

Overall i do like the mechanics of what is laid out in this thread, it seems fair and balanced. I might offer it as an option to diversify what my spell-less ranger PC would prepare, forcing them to give up their already minor healing for some more damage.

Snig
2015-06-28, 09:59 PM
The biggest issue with poisons for me has been a huge margin of hit and miss scenarios. With it being the most easily shrugged damage types it quickly can fall into the area of 'underpowered'. But it is also one of the few things in the game that allows just about anybody to nova with proper preparation along with all sorts of rider effects that just add to its sheer diversity. If you allow your players to use poisons then you need to make sure you know what your dealing with to keep yourself from completely undercutting a strategy with a single item or allowing them to blow away just about any basic enemy.

Overall i do like the mechanics of what is laid out in this thread, it seems fair and balanced. I might offer it as an option to diversify what my spell-less ranger PC would prepare, forcing them to give up their already minor healing for some more damage.

I wouldn't really consider their healing minor? Poultices actually scale rather well.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-06-29, 06:12 AM
The biggest issue with poisons for me has been a huge margin of hit and miss scenarios. With it being the most easily shrugged damage types it quickly can fall into the area of 'underpowered'. But it is also one of the few things in the game that allows just about anybody to nova with proper preparation along with all sorts of rider effects that just add to its sheer diversity. If you allow your players to use poisons then you need to make sure you know what your dealing with to keep yourself from completely undercutting a strategy with a single item or allowing them to blow away just about any basic enemy.

Overall i do like the mechanics of what is laid out in this thread, it seems fair and balanced. I might offer it as an option to diversify what my spell-less ranger PC would prepare, forcing them to give up their already minor healing for some more damage.

Yeah, allowing a ranger to choose between healing and poison on any given day could be good. You might have to balance it slightly, maybe by requiring that the ranger be in favoured terrain, or that they succeed on a Wisdom (Survival) check.

I just noticed that the 9th level feature on the UA article allows poultices to cure poison. If you cut poultices entirely, there should be a little boost to poisons at this level. Maybe allow the poison to inflict something like sleep or blindness instead of damage? Or even as well as damage?

Snig
2015-06-29, 06:24 AM
Yeah, allowing a ranger to choose between healing and poison on any given day could be good. You might have to balance it slightly, maybe by requiring that the ranger be in favoured terrain, or that they succeed on a Wisdom (Survival) check.

I just noticed that the 9th level feature on the UA article allows poultices to cure poison. If you cut poultices entirely, there should be a little boost to poisons at this level. Maybe allow the poison to inflict something like sleep or blindness instead of damage? Or even as well as damage?
That's A great idea!