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Hushdawg
2007-06-22, 09:50 AM
Ditto. Down in the South West of England(where I am) it comes across as insincere in some cases. Sir or Ma'am/occaisionally Miss/Ms. is generally used for teachers and other proffessions eg waiters, bus drivers, shop assisstants and for strangers. eg "Excuse me sir/ma'am, but could you direct me to ...".

When I was in Manila with my wife, I was surprised to hear her say "Miss" to the women working in shops; in the Southern US that can be very derogatory and condescending as it indicates someone who is young of age and experience.

However, when I said "Ma'am" to her mother she laughed and said "When you say that I feel like I should be covered in gold because here "Maam" is something of great wealth."

We had a good laugh over it; but it just goes to show how even a country occupied by the United States for nearly a century can have such a different way of doing things.

Also, if you were to meet my father and call him "Mister Lastname" or "Firstname" and were trying to date my sister, then you would loose big time. It is "Sir" until he gives permission for something else.
This is not a concept unique to "the south" since my father grew up in southern California. I think the casual nature of doing things is one of the poisons of modern society.

Yes, I call it a poison. The casual nature of things reduces the level of respect that people are given by default and I strongly feel that this is what gives rise to petty crime and such.

But that's just a mad crazy theory in my monkey brain.

magicwalker
2007-06-22, 09:54 AM
Okay, I think we can all agree that the 'sir' thing has gone on long enough.. it's a culture thing: UK or Australia don't, USA go ahead.

Krimm: Tell her how you feel. I've been in this situation before, and trying to wait it out.. doesn't end well.

TigerHunter
2007-06-22, 11:27 AM
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

chiX0r
2007-06-22, 11:28 AM
According to proper rules of ettiquete (dictated to me by my aunt who writes books on this sort of thing), it is traditional for the prospective fiance to ask the young lady's parents for their blessing to ask the young lady to wed. Meaning that you're supposed to ask both parents for their (at least superficial) support of the union, rather than their permission. Whether they agree to give it or not. Since marriages aren't arranged without the bride's consent anymore, it's not about allowing the guy to have her or not, it's about being considerate enough to let the parents know ahead of time so they can get used to the idea and tell him how lucky he is to be marrying their daughter.


Anyway enough advice from the unwed, non-dating 16 year old. :smalltongue: I have small issue that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with. A guy from another forum that I post on now and then e-mailed me and asked me to go out with him. Apparently he lives in the same general area as me and mistakenly thinks I'm "hot". The only thing is that he really seems to be kind of an a--hole. He's mean to people on the forums for no apparent reason, and he just generally seems arrogant and rude. So obviously I don't want to go out with him, I just don't want to lie or be mean about it. Like "No, I don't want to date you because you're rude, mean, and obnoxious." which would be the real reason.

So, how should I tell him?

Pyrian
2007-06-22, 11:40 AM
So, how should I tell him?

I'd recommend one of:

"I'm flattered, but no thank you."
"I appreciate your interest, but no thank you."
"No, thank you."

Repeat if necessary.

Ranis
2007-06-22, 11:43 AM
Tell him the truth so it doesn't bite you in the ass later.

Or, ignore the emails/PMs all together. If it gets to bothering you, block him. Or let the mods know what's going on and have him banned or something.


And for the record, you are hot.

Fallon
2007-06-22, 11:57 AM
@ChiXor
Tell him no thanks, not interested. If he asks for a reason just say not my type of guy. You don't have to tell him he's not your type of guy 'cause he's a jerk. That's what I suggest anyway. That is, if you don't have an actual reason besides that like you currently don't want to date anyone or you only date people of your faith etc.

My hubby proposed to me, and the next day we told my folks that we wanted to get married. We wanted their blessing and opinion on what to do to get ready (they've been happily married 15 years and are pretty smart people ^_^). We had a nice discussion about different things that Kevin and I should discuss before we marry like kids and finances and stuff, making sure we know what we're getting into, etc. It was a very positive experience. Helped them feel better about us getting married too.

About the meeting the parents thing, I wound up meeting my future in laws on our first date, my hubby and I decided to spend all day together (started just as a lunch date) and wound up eating dinner at their place (he was living there at the time, commuting to college to save monies). It did help that I had met his brothers at different church activities, so I felt comfy with them. Kevin met my folks when he picked me up for a date. My dad got the door 'cause I upstairs getting my stuff together. I think that works pretty well, there's not the pressure of being there for a long time if things get awkward, as long as the person being picked up doesn't take forever to leave.

So yeah, works if you live with your folks or can be picked up from there if they live nearby

AngelSword
2007-06-22, 11:59 AM
According to proper rules of ettiquete (dictated to me by my aunt who writes books on this sort of thing), it is traditional for the prospective fiance to ask the young lady's parents for their blessing to ask the young lady to wed. Meaning that you're supposed to ask both parents for their (at least superficial) support of the union, rather than their permission. Whether they agree to give it or not. Since marriages aren't arranged without the bride's consent anymore, it's not about allowing the guy to have her or not, it's about being considerate enough to let the parents know ahead of time so they can get used to the idea and tell him how lucky he is to be marrying their daughter.

Alright, poor choice of words on my part. But at least the idea was put out there.

And in regards to your gentleman caller, I would suggest being honest with him. If you tell him, then perhaps in time, he'll be your type, but until he changes, you won't deal with him. If he doesn't know what he does is wrong, then there's little chance he'll change.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-22, 01:23 PM
Anyway enough advice from the unwed, non-dating 16 year old. :smalltongue: I have small issue that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with. A guy from another forum that I post on now and then e-mailed me and asked me to go out with him. Apparently he lives in the same general area as me and mistakenly thinks I'm "hot". The only thing is that he really seems to be kind of an a--hole. He's mean to people on the forums for no apparent reason, and he just generally seems arrogant and rude. So obviously I don't want to go out with him, I just don't want to lie or be mean about it. Like "No, I don't want to date you because you're rude, mean, and obnoxious." which would be the real reason.

So, how should I tell him?

My advice is to tell him the truth. Telling him: "No, because I really don't like you." is by far the most straighforward and surefire way of getting him off your back.

Alternately, you could tell him: "No, because I'm actually a dude." This also carried the benefit of being true, because as well all know, there are no chicks on the internet. :smallwink:

magicwalker
2007-06-22, 02:06 PM
Alright, poor choice of words on my part. But at least the idea was put out there.

And in regards to your gentleman caller, I would suggest being honest with him. If you tell him, then perhaps in time, he'll be your type, but until he changes, you won't deal with him. If he doesn't know what he does is wrong, then there's little chance he'll change.

I didn't get the picture that she was interested in this guy at all. If thats the circumstance and I was in her place, I wouldn't give him the benefit of criticism. I suggest using one of the previously given responses, they are harmless.

AngelSword
2007-06-22, 02:10 PM
I didn't get the picture that she was interested in this guy at all. If thats the circumstance and I was in her place, I wouldn't give him the benefit of criticism. I suggest using one of the previously given responses, they are harmless.

I'm not suggesting that it would be a possible outcome. I was just trying to illustrate the point that he should be told.

magicwalker
2007-06-22, 02:55 PM
I guess I would expect him to come to that own realization through reflection, so he might actually learn something.

What benefit is going to get out of someone telling him that he's rude, mean, obnoxious, etc..

People don't change unless they want to change, self-realization is a step in the right direction.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-22, 03:18 PM
I guess I would expect him to come to that own realization through reflection, so he might actually learn something.

What benefit is going to get out of someone telling him that he's rude, mean, obnoxious, etc..

People don't change unless they want to change, self-realization is a step in the right direction.

People rarely come to realizations like: "Oh hey, I'm a jerk" without someone actually telling them that they are.

The guy may not even realize that he comes across that way, and being told such may just spark improvement in his behavior.

What's more likely though, is that he'll get pissed off at chiX0r for turning him down. This will inevitably cause forum drama, and harsh words will be typed with far more force than is actually necessary to operate a keyboard.

Breaon
2007-06-22, 04:10 PM
Would have to agree with this position in regards to the U.K. I think almost all men in Britain would regard a boyfriend going Sir to a father to be a crawler, creep, wierdo etc. It would be regarded as very condacending to use in this situation. Even on a first meeting. Mr. <surname> is far more the apropriate introduction, and its almost invaribly replied to as call me <first name>, but it is apreciated by the father that the Mr <surname> has been used initially.

"Sir" has a very different connotation in the UK; unless they're actually knighted, it's probably not "appropriate."

Nerzi
2007-06-22, 04:20 PM
"Sir" has a very different connotation in the UK; unless they're actually knighted, it's probably not "appropriate."

Or a teacher (only applies if you're a student of course).

And Ma'am should never be used, it makes a woman feel both very old and very unatractive, it's Miss.

AngelSword
2007-06-22, 04:46 PM
Or a teacher (only applies if you're a student of course).

And Ma'am should never be used, it makes a woman feel both very old and very unatractive, it's Miss.

Ma'am is proper form for the military, which is why I said it. Once again, it's a cultural thing.

Here's a relationship woe I've been having with a friend of mine. Her mother died about a month ago, and she seemingly took it surprisingly well. However, as of late, she hasn't responded to any of my calls, texts, IMs, or emails (or similar). I'm a mite concerned, but I don't know what to do.

Glaivemaster
2007-06-22, 04:52 PM
Ma'am is proper form for the military, which is why I said it. Once again, it's a cultural thing.

Here's a relationship woe I've been having with a friend of mine. Her mother died about a month ago, and she seemingly took it surprisingly well. However, as of late, she hasn't responded to any of my calls, texts, IMs, or emails (or similar). I'm a mite concerned, but I don't know what to do.

Keep trying and/or, if possible, try and speak with her in person (don't know how close you are to her). It's possible that there's another reason for avoiding you, but it's best to talk to her about it anyway. If you know where she lives and can get there, I'd say go.

Just my immediate thoughts, anyway

Nerzi
2007-06-22, 05:08 PM
Ma'am is proper form for the military, which is why I said it. Once again, it's a cultural thing.

I'm well aware it's used in the military, but we're not talking about a military situation. To me the talk seemed more on civilian conversation and how to adress people. Obviously in the army you should adress people in the proper way, that's part of the training and goes without saying, but in the real social world (of the UK at least) Ma'am is a complete and utter no-no.

Logic
2007-06-22, 05:41 PM
Anyway enough advice from the unwed, non-dating 16 year old. :smalltongue: I have small issue that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with. A guy from another forum that I post on now and then e-mailed me and asked me to go out with him. Apparently he lives in the same general area as me and mistakenly thinks I'm "hot". The only thing is that he really seems to be kind of an a--hole. He's mean to people on the forums for no apparent reason, and he just generally seems arrogant and rude. So obviously I don't want to go out with him, I just don't want to lie or be mean about it. Like "No, I don't want to date you because you're rude, mean, and obnoxious." which would be the real reason.

So, how should I tell him?

Tell him you are wary of meeting people on the internet.

Flakey
2007-06-22, 05:49 PM
Tell him you are wary of meeting people on the internet.

Do not do this, follow what the others have said, and go for a firm no, otherwise you going to end up with him trying to convince you that its not dangerous, instead of putting him off.

The Prince of Cats
2007-06-22, 05:56 PM
"Sir" has a very different connotation in the UK; unless they're actually knighted, it's probably not "appropriate."
Unless you are at a formal event, I am not sure knights like constant 'sir's any more than a peer would appreciate 'my lord' from all and sundry. Try to understand that knighthoods have little or nothing to do with our social affectations, since only a very small number of us are knights of any kind. I would also say that, frommemory, not every knight is truly 'sir' anything. (the complexities and manifold and can be googled if you are that bothered)

From a position of psychology, I would posit that England (and some other parts of the Commonwealth, but especially England) is a status-obsessed nation who are uncomfortable with being of a different status to one-another. This being true, America is a nation based on egalitarian ideals who are uncomfortable with being equal. There is a beautiful symmetry to the idea, I must confess...

Yiel
2007-06-22, 06:37 PM
Chix0r, be nice but be firm. I agree with those who have suggested you let him down gently, but with a clear NO. "I am sorry but I'm not interested." "Sorry you aren't my type of guy." etc.

If you want throw in a "I'm flattered you think I'm hot... but I'm looking for a guy who I have more things in common with." Sweetie you are a good-looking girl in the "geek" world. I recommend practicing your kind, but firm, letdowns.


Angelsword, give her a little time. Just let her know that you are there for her, but in the months following a close family members death there are a lot of things to sort out and she may want this time to family only. If you are worried about her state of mind, ring some of her close friends to see if she may appreciate a visit and some more support at this hard time.


As for the "how to address the father" issue. Please ask your partner. My father was quite happy when my partner first met him, shook hands and said, "Nice to meet you Sir." and then proceeded to address my parent as as "Mr & Mrs (Yiel's lastname)" until he was given permission months later to call my mother & father by their given names. (He now calls them Mum & Dad).

I asked my partner his rules on these things and he said, "The first time I meet someone's parents, I treat them like a boss at a job interview. If you don't want to use Sir, use Mr such-and-such or Mrs such-and-such in those sentences. They will correct you when they want you to. Once you have permission to call them by their nickname, do so. (You don't waltz up to a girl on your first date with her, grab her on the ass and say 'Hey, Baby!'.)"

There are cultural differences even within nations. Don't presume to know, just ask your partner. If they are unsure, they will ask their parents for you.

As for the marriage proposal? I would expect my partner to ring to ask my parents for their blessing. Not for their permission. If one side of the family doesn't want you to wed, it can cause rifts in close families. I'm not saying you shouldn't marry them, but it lets you know that there are more things to work out first than just what ring to buy.

Dragonrider
2007-06-22, 06:50 PM
My parents would be comfortable with first-name. Of course, I live in the pacific northwest of the U.S., which tends to be fairly informal (read, people wear jeans to a funeral :smalltongue:). On the other hand, it's a cowboy town, so a lot of old conservative families to balance out the hippies. Really depends on which half of the town's society you belong to. My family mixes. You just have to know the waters.

Hushdawg
2007-06-22, 07:50 PM
I'm well aware it's used in the military, but we're not talking about a military situation. To me the talk seemed more on civilian conversation and how to adress people. Obviously in the army you should adress people in the proper way, that's part of the training and goes without saying, but in the real social world (of the UK at least) Ma'am is a complete and utter no-no.

in most parts of the USA it is preferred.

Saying "miss" to a grown woman is rude and derogatory as it implies that she is young and inexperienced and therefore beneath you.

Ma'am shows respect and dignity.

Amazing how two nations can say different things with the same language. :smalltongue:

Logic
2007-06-22, 07:53 PM
Some women find it flattering to be called miss. It makes them feel young.

Thrawn183
2007-06-22, 10:50 PM
Some women find it flattering to be called miss. It makes them feel young.

Some women find it offesive to be called maam. It makes them feel old. The hyprocrites.

sahunstar
2007-06-23, 01:33 AM
hello :haley:

Serpentine
2007-06-23, 02:44 AM
Ah, Sahunstar, that's a tough one. I think you both need to step back for a moment, get it all into perspective and think about what you want, from this relationship, from your life... Spending the holiday apart could be a very good idea, try spending a little time on your own for a while. And don't worry: medicine has taken leaps and bounds in that field in recent years:smallwink:

Syka
2007-06-23, 03:25 AM
Ok...it ate my detailed post. :(

Jist: My original problem is solved, with another one now thrown in.

Conclusion: Dating unexclusively with the understanding (and yes, this was specified), that we are to inform the other if someone else enters the equation. He told me before we ironed this out "I'm just not ready for a serious relationship right now..." which I'm guessing as the added "with you" on there, but I'm cool with it. I'm not really looking for anything serious myself, so it works. There was also a very fun sub-conversation about the differences in terminology between our and our parent's generations in regards to dating.

New problem: Sex. Long story short, I'm a virgin, he isn't. He's ready, I'm not (I don't think...>>') I told him this, he seems ok with it. But I really wanna...:smallfrown: I just dunno. PM's are appreciated, and you'll get a fuller story as well.

Cheers,
Syka

The Prince of Cats
2007-06-23, 03:35 AM
New problem: Sex. Long story short, I'm a virgin, he isn't. He's ready, I'm not (I don't think...>>') I told him this, he seems ok with it. But I really wanna...:smallfrown: I just dunno. PM's are appreciated, and you'll get a fuller story as well.
Hmm... Good topic to get posts scrubbed...

Please, don't anyone take this as anything more than friendly advice, but I really think PMs would be best. This is one of those banned topics, so any good advice will be close to the line.

Syka
2007-06-23, 03:46 PM
Hence the invitation to PM's. ;)

I want to thank everyone who sent me a message on the topic. I responded as best I can. I spoke with my mom, who is great about this stuff, and I've figured out what I'm going to do. :)

Admittedly, knowing what I know now...I feel more comfortable initiating stuff, in general. Now I know where we stand, it's all good.

I just want to say I love all you guys here. I know you guys all have a wide range of experience and can thus give me a perspective I may not have otherwise. I don't know what I would do without this community.

Cheers,
Syka

The Prince of Cats
2007-06-23, 05:10 PM
I get the feeling that you knew how to find your answer and asking was enough to help you phrase the question into something you could approach.

One of the things I have noticed is that the people at GitP love to help people (especially me), love to talk about themselves (especially me) and have an opinion on everything (especially me).

sktarq
2007-06-23, 05:17 PM
One of the things I have noticed is that the people at GitP love to help people (especially me), love to talk about themselves (especially me) and have an opinion on everything (especially me).

Quoted For Truth.-nuf said

Dragonrider
2007-06-23, 07:23 PM
:smalltongue: I am both curious and insanely glad this topic was restricted to PMs. Because I didn't want to hear about it.

Breaon
2007-06-23, 07:25 PM
It's great you have that kind of relationship with your mother in that you can discuss those topics openly. A lot of people don't.

zeratul
2007-06-24, 08:43 PM
I told the person I was talking about earlier, that I like them over myspace. I feel like **** now. I hope I made the right choice, nothing to do now but wait.

Breaon
2007-06-24, 08:49 PM
I told the person I was talking about earlier, that I like them over myspace. I feel like **** now. I hope I made the right choice, nothing to do now but wait.


Why do you feel like ****? If you can't tell the person you like that you like them, what're the odds anything beyond a puppy crush will occur?

Good luck, though :)

Serpentine
2007-06-24, 09:32 PM
Good luck indeed. I hope she appreciates how brave that was (even if you did take the coward's route:smalltongue: )

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-25, 09:04 AM
I told the person I was talking about earlier, that I like them over myspace. I feel like **** now. I hope I made the right choice, nothing to do now but wait.

You made the right choice. It's always best to be forthright and at least find out if such attraction might be mutual.

Having revealed your feelings, you're vulnerable and afraid of her response. It's only natural that you feel like ****. It'll pass.

magicwalker
2007-06-25, 02:08 PM
You made the right choice. It's always best to be forthright and at least find out if such attraction might be mutual.

Having revealed your feelings, you're vulnerable and afraid of her response. It's only natural that you feel like ****. It'll pass.

QFT

Ball is in her court now, time for her to "man"-up so to speak..

Syka
2007-06-25, 02:09 PM
*grumble* Boys suck. I'll update later on when I know more of what is happening. Longish story.

Has anyone heard from Ranis of late?

And any news Zeratul?

Cheers,
Syka

Ranis
2007-06-25, 02:37 PM
*blinks shyly* Hehe, I feel special. Syka remembers me.

Yes, well, umm, now that you mention me, I just got dumped. We hung out last night, and suffice to say that I screwed up, betrayed her trust, and wasn't worth a second chance. I feel terrible. I don't blame her one bit. I wasn't thinking, and I blew it with a very, very good girl. I cried myself to sleep last night. I can't beleive myself, I should have left her place before I got tired, because I'm aware that my judgment gets cloudy, but I enjoyed spending time with her so much that I didn't leave and ended up doing something that I regret with every ounce of my heart and wish I could take back. But, I was stupid and stayed. Gods, I'm such an idiot.

Please don't ask what I did. I'm not comfortable sharing. Suffice to say it was grounds for being dumped, and grounds for me feeling the way I do. What I did wasn't in my character; that's not who I am. :smallfrown:

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-25, 03:01 PM
Yes, well, umm, now that you mention me, I just got dumped. <snip for brevity>

Sorry to hear that. I don't know what it is that you did, but I can tell you this: everyone makes mistakes.

Try not to beat yourself up over it for too long. Instead, try to learn from your mistake and resolve yourself to never make it again.

magicwalker
2007-06-25, 03:07 PM
I'm sorry to hear that Ranis.

I don't know what happened, but...

I've acted outside myself before, with similar results.. and it's not an easy thing to get through by yourself. Talk it over with a close friend, really put yourself out there and try to explain what you were thinking/feeling.. reflect.. you'll get through this, and if you are truly sorry.. then maybe she'll give you another chance.

zeratul
2007-06-25, 03:37 PM
Nothing new yet. I'll tell you guys once something happens. Should be sometime this week.

Syka
2007-06-25, 04:09 PM
Aw man, I'm sorry. :smallfrown: I was hoping for good news to detract from my potentially bad news (though I guess it could potentially become good as well). *hughug* It's life, learn from mistakes and you will be the better for it.

If it was truly out of your character and something you wouldn't do again, try talking to her. I know, personally, of only two things that would be grounds for irrevocable dumping without listening to the person (lying, which includes cheating, and abuse in some form). On other stuff I'm fairly flexible.

Zeratul, I'm rooting for you. :) We need some happiness on this thread.

Cheers,
Syka

Pyrian
2007-06-25, 04:18 PM
*grumble* Boys suck. I'll update later on when I know more of what is happening. Longish story.Updates! Updates! The peanut gallery is curious. :smalltongue:


*blinks shyly* Hehe, I feel special. Syka remembers me.

Yes, well, umm, now that you mention me, I just got dumped.Well, I hear Syka's relationship is unexclusive (or possibly worse, now). :smallwink:

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-25, 04:23 PM
Well, I hear Syka's relationship is unexclusive (or possibly worse, now). :smallwink:

She's a Gator though. I suppose no one is perfect. :smallwink:

Nerzi
2007-06-25, 04:31 PM
Bleh.

Comunication, how I love it.
How a guy can interpret 'I don't really like you socialising with the girl who you hardly even know and was one of my friends until she went behind my back and slept with you the week after we split up while you were on the rebound, before we got back together, so could you please not? I mean you're not actually even friends in any sense of the word.' as 'Hey! it'd be a great idea for you to completely ignore me when all my friends turn up at this fancy dress party and walk off to the pub arm in arm with her and Bex! The only thing better would be if you asked her to pose sluttily with you for lots of photos!'

Suffice to say I was not amused. Silly idiot didn't even realise he'd done anything wrong. Though was very apologetic as soon as he realised he'd actually pissed me off. I had to slowly and carefully explain the difference between socialising with her as a member of a group if he has to so as not to appear rude, but not initiation conversation himself which I don't mind and asking her to pose with him whilst pulling a slutty face at the camera which I do mind. (In his slight defense it made sense with his fancy dress - he was a vicar she was an angel *snort* (so untrue it's not even funny) and the other best friend of mine in those photos who I don't mind him posing with was a devil)

Bellend.

Anyways, that was more of a rant where advice isn't needed. There's nothing between them, he was just making a very misguided and stupid atempt at being 'sociable' without thinking through the possible results. he's just a bit stupid with things like that. Have taken the sensible action of talking through issues with him and telling him what I find acceptable for him to do with this particular girl so that he doesn't make the same mistake again. Just needed somewhere to rant. Comments on any negative opinions you may have of my boyfriend are not welcome. He has his own perfectly reasonable side of the story and his actions genuinely weren't meant in a malicious way. I think he's just emotionaly dumb.

Syka
2007-06-25, 04:51 PM
Oh fine...Since everyone is wondering anyway. :P

He didn't text me last night like he said he would when he finished what he was doing. No biggie in and of itself. We talked about it, he told me about what had happened, I move on. I'm used to it by this point and it's not a huge deal as long as it isn't frequent.

Not 10 minutes later I come across a comment on his page from a girl saying, "I had a great time last night. etc etc" Oh hecks no. I knew they had been supposed to hang out earlier in the day, but he told me it was canceled (which it was), but did not see fit to tell me he had promised to hang out with her that night. He was evidently planning to hang out with me afterwards. He also did not let me know he'd hung out with her when he had talked about the night before.

I don't take kindly to being lied to, even by omission. We did talk about it but AIM is not the same. Next time I see him, we're talking about it. I'm also thinking about just calling it down to friends, mainly because this makes me realize that we either need something serious, or just friends (also because, emotionally, I'm in deeper than I realized or am comfortable with for this level). If he does decided that the last 3 days made him suddenly ready, I'm going to be very cautious. If not, it's probably for the best. *grumble* This is why I'm planning to go guy-free for 6 months once I'm single again.

Even though there is a chance there is nothing he was trying to hide, it still doesn't make it seem that way. If he had told me nothing, I'd've been fine with finding it out later. But getting part of the story tends to make one a bit suspicious.

At this point, his 3 chances are almost up. Which sucks because I like him a lot, but I don't feel like ending up in another situation like with my ex.

Sorry I seem so negative. My moods tend to change with how I'm being treated, and right now it doesn't seem like I'm being treated well.

Cheers,
Syka

EDIT: Wait...was that Gator comment a compliment? :smalltongue:

magicwalker
2007-06-25, 05:42 PM
Syka- This guy sounds awfully sneaky. Is this the same one who said he didn't want to commit to an exclusive relationship with you...? And then he's off with some girl without telling you- which was one of the terms of the open relationship he wanted? I don't know about that one..

Aramil Liadon
2007-06-25, 05:49 PM
He didn't text me last night like he said he would when he finished what he was doing. No biggie in and of itself. We talked about it, he told me about what had happened, I move on. I'm used to it by this point and it's not a huge deal as long as it isn't frequent.
That's good, glad you can get over his possible lack of memory. I hate how having a seive for a brain is always interpreted as malicious!

...but did not see fit to tell me he had promised to hang out with her that night. He was evidently planning to hang out with me afterwards. He also did not let me know he'd hung out with her when he had talked about the night before.
Perhaps I misunderstand, but you were talking about what he was doing Sunday and he didn't tell you what he was doing on Monday? Seems reasonable to me.


I'm also thinking about just calling it down to friends, mainly because this makes me realize that we either need something serious, or just friends (also because, emotionally, I'm in deeper than I realized or am comfortable with for this level). If he does decided that the last 3 days made him suddenly ready, I'm going to be very cautious. If not, it's probably for the best. *grumble* This is why I'm planning to go guy-free for 6 months once I'm single again.
Calling it down to an even less exclusive level will not make you more worried about his being with other girls? The "ready" comment confuses me, so I'll skip that. And for the last, good luck with that! So mean... Depriving guys of her company...

Even though there is a chance there is nothing he was trying to hide, it still doesn't make it seem that way. If he had told me nothing, I'd've been fine with finding it out later. But getting part of the story tends to make one a bit suspicious.
Once again misunderstanding, you would prefer to have been told nothing that to have been given the information you have? But you just said you hate lying in any form!

Yes I realize that I may be totally off track. Math exams can do that to me. Unless you can reduce your emotional responses to the form of y=asin(x-p)+q , by any chance?



Nerzi, did you actually say "I don't really like you socializing with the girl who you hardly even know and was one of my friends until she went behind my back and slept with you the week after we split up while you were on the rebound, before we got back together, so could you please not? I mean you're not actually even friends in any sense of the word." ? If not, we to tend to be hugely socially (and emotionally, and subtlety, etc.) ignorant. Just a tip.

Syka
2007-06-25, 06:19 PM
The not calling and going out with her happened Sunday night. Me finding out happened today (Monday).

By calling it down to friends, it'll help me not worry. I won't have any right to. By ready, he said he hadn't wanted a serious relationship right now, and if that has changed in the span of a few days I'll be surprised.

I don't need to know where he is every second of the day and who he is always hanging out with. If he had just apologized about not calling etc, and not mentioned the stuff about the night previous it wouldn't seem as much like he is trying to hide something. By telling me part of it (that he was driving around and a couple other things)) but not the other part (that he met up with a friend), that makes me suspicious. I would probably be having the same reaction if it was a guy friend, if only on principle. You don't tell someone you will be doing something with them, then ignore them for someone else.

magicwalker- As far as I can tell, it wasn't a date (though I could be wrong). My problem is with the lying by omission and not letting me know we wouldn't be hanging out.

:smallwink: If a really good guy does happen to come along in that six months, I'm not ruling it out. I'm just going to do my best to avoid getting involved. I am in school after all, and it would just be one less stressor.

Cheers,
Syka

zeratul
2007-06-25, 06:44 PM
Well playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and reading marvel civil war have helped to clear my mind. I would like to take this moment to thank Marvel in all it's fasccets for helping to keep me sane.

Syka
2007-06-25, 07:11 PM
Hahah, yah. I'm using music. I can't go all out in my singing since I'm on the family comp (my wireless interenet card is busted), but I'm def getting my goove on. :) Everyone has their therapys to help them through.

Cheers,
Syka

Serpentine
2007-06-25, 09:15 PM
Yes, well, umm, now that you mention me, I just got dumped... suffice to say that I screwed up, betrayed her trust, and wasn't worth a second chance. I feel terrible. I don't blame her one bit... ended up doing something that I regret with every ounce of my heart and wish I could take back... Please don't ask what I did. I'm not comfortable sharing. Suffice to say it was grounds for being dumped, and grounds for me feeling the way I do. What I did wasn't in my character; that's not who I am. :smallfrown:
Ah Ranis. I'm not sure what you did, but it sounds tsk-worthy. So tsk tsk tsk. If you're truly sorry, do offer her a sincere apology in which you acknowledge exactly what you did wrong, how you think it made her feel and how bad you feel about it. If you're truly repentent and able to learn from your mistake, you might be worth a second chance, but I wouldn't bring it up - that would have to be her perogative, whenever she feel ready to forgive you. Give her plenty of space and lots of time to work out whether she can trust you again. If not, at least you might be able to work on a friendship. In any case, this is not something that can be rushed if you've really hurt her and betrayed her trust. It could take days, or weeks, or months or forever for her to really trust you again, depending on the misdemeaner and her own personality. Just make sure she knows how sorry you are, and that you'd like to rebuild your relationship (whatever that might be).
(for the record, lying is the one that really get me. Even cheating (I think) I could handle, as long as they don't lie about it)
Also: Curse it, man, tell me what drifts you want for your druidninja!

Syka
2007-06-25, 09:24 PM
The only thing about cheating is it usually has lying as an inherent part of it, it's a secret. I don't consider it cheating if both parties are aware and in agreement. That is an open relationship.

Now, if someone makes a stupid mistake while drunk it's still cheating, just not lying as long as they fess up quickly. I still would be mad as all get out, though more willing to allow for repentance. Once. More than that and they are pushing it.

Ranis
2007-06-25, 09:45 PM
I just talked to her over the phone for almost an hour, and I must say that I'm still feeling just about as crappy as I did beforehand. She talked to all of her buddies at work, and they all told her to not give me another chance, but she told me that if I can regain her trust and make her feel better, then we'd see.

So we're going to be friends for now, and talk, and see where things go from there. It's going to be an uphill battle, but we'll see where it lands, I guess. At this point, I'm having a slightly small internal struggle. The kind of person I am and the kind of person that I showed her last night are two different people, and that scares me on a profound level. I need to think about whether or not I'd trust myself in a situation like that again. Right now I'm thinking that the only way to ensure that I'm not going to hurt her again is to not be with her any longer.

But that's something I really, really don't want.

Syka
2007-06-25, 09:50 PM
So...I know you told us not to ask, but the only way we can help further is if we know what happened, unfortunately.

I do wish you luck. With everyone telling me to forget my current guy, I'm still willing to give him a chance at a serious relationship if he so chooses (I can only wonder what I'm getting into if we do...but I think I'd rather give it a try if he is willing than to let it drop). Gods I must be crazy. We girls will go to incredible lengths if we care about you.

Cheers,
Syka

chiX0r
2007-06-25, 10:13 PM
I told the dude from the other forum that I wasn't interested, and then again when he tried to convince me that it would be great, and then report him to a mod for flaming me the third time I turned him down. Geesh, and he wonders why I don't want to date him. :smallyuk:

Pyrian
2007-06-25, 10:29 PM
The kind of person I am and the kind of person that I showed her last night are two different people, and that scares me on a profound level. I need to think about whether or not I'd trust myself in a situation like that again. Right now I'm thinking that the only way to ensure that I'm not going to hurt her again is to not be with her any longer.They say that if you fall off a horse you have to immediately get right back on it. (For the record, the horse in this analogy is your self-control, not her!) BTW, it's much easier once you know the animal inside than when it catches you unawares.


We girls will go to incredible lengths if we care about you.I've noticed that. I mean, we keep getting these posts "does she like me does she like me", but in my experience if I have to ask the answer is "not yet" at best. (Of course, then there was the girl I was sure liked me who turned me down flat, sooo... I'm not the best judge.)

Gnome King
2007-06-25, 11:02 PM
What if, for example, someone had been...a...ah...TOTAL jackass without realizing it?

Say, for example, someone had been intentionally rude upon mistaking someone elses intentions, and had, theoretically, been uninformed of this mistake until much later, at a time when no contact could be made until a year later, and by someone else?

zeratul
2007-06-25, 11:24 PM
Ok guys, I know I just sent the girl my feelings yesterday , but I am going insane without a response. I need to know what she thinks.

Vonriel
2007-06-25, 11:28 PM
Talk to her in person, then. Guaranteed insta-response.

zeratul
2007-06-25, 11:31 PM
Here's the thing though. We see each other a fair amount, but it's coincidential. We don't really hang out despite liking each other as friends although as you guys, and know she knows I like her as more than a friend..

magicwalker
2007-06-25, 11:31 PM
GnomeKing- Sometimes time heals old wounds, even if you left a really bad impression.. if you've grown as a person, are willing to take a little guff for your actions, and are apologetic.. then, well, you've done everything that you can.

magicwalker
2007-06-25, 11:37 PM
Zeratul- Since most of my coincidental meetings are when I'm out with something to do, it would be appropriate to not get into a long involved conversation with her. But one of those coincidental meetings might be a good time to ask her if there is sometime you could maybe talk or something. Or ask if you could call her, and then get her number or something.

Take it with a grain of salt, the hopeless romantic in me denies wanting to give such advice without knowing the whole story.

zeratul
2007-06-25, 11:42 PM
Hopeless romantic is actually my label from one of my friends. My brother agreed with him saying "Yeah, it's like your emo, but you don't hate your dad"

AngelSword
2007-06-25, 11:53 PM
My brother agreed with him saying "Yeah, it's like your emo, but you don't hate your dad"

Y'know, as a hopeless romantic, I take offense to that.:smallamused:

averagejoe
2007-06-25, 11:56 PM
What if, for example, someone had been...a...ah...TOTAL jackass without realizing it?

Say, for example, someone had been intentionally rude upon mistaking someone elses intentions, and had, theoretically, been uninformed of this mistake until much later, at a time when no contact could be made until a year later, and by someone else?

Well, and I'm going to say this bluntly, if you realized that you were a jackass when you mistook her intentions, then you were still a jackass, even if you had been spot on. No matter what your parents or the television says, it is not okay to hit someone, even if they've slept with your wife, and it isn't okay to act the jackass, even if you think they deserve it.

I'm about to rant, just because this is a subject I've been giving a lot of thought on lately. Seriously, most, if not all, of the problems in the adult world could be solved if they would quit acting like children.

My advice? Apologize without making excusses. That is, say, "I'm sorry, I was being a jerk," not, "I'm sorry, I only said that because I thought..." Then it's up to whether she accepts. If she has hurtful things back, then don't let yourself get riled up; understand that she's probably just lashing out because of injustices done to her. (Don't point this out, though.) And for the sake of your father, don't let pride enter into this. Apologies have to be humble or they don't work. You don't need to point anything out to her about her behavior, or try to make yourself look better, or anything besides say you're sorry.

This is one, however, that you may have to let go; if so then the best you can do is make sure there are no bad feelings between you.

Serpentine
2007-06-26, 12:36 AM
I'd like to follow up on AverageJoe by saying that "I'm sorry, but..." is not a real apology.

Gnome King
2007-06-26, 01:26 AM
You people must think I'm an intended jackass. If I apologize its a sincere apology. If it wasn't sincere, I wouldn't apologize, what would be the point?

Breaon
2007-06-26, 01:41 AM
I'd like to follow up on AverageJoe by saying that "I'm sorry, but..." is not a real apology.


Yea, that's more of an apology for what you're about to say. Apologize wholeheartedly, or just back away. Even if you don't think you have a rat's <censored> in hades at getting her back, apologize, because it sounds like you're killing yourself over the behaviour and feel bad about it.

averagejoe
2007-06-26, 01:48 AM
You people must think I'm an intended jackass. If I apologize its a sincere apology. If it wasn't sincere, I wouldn't apologize, what would be the point?

Nah, I don't tend to think less of people for their mistakes, or even blame them (though I do ask that they take responsibility.) I was just getting kinda ranty because I'm tired of seeing grown people cause problems with each other because they think being in the right gives them permission to do so.

What I meant was this; it doesn't matter if you misunderstood her or not. What she did doesn't matter at all. The point is you acted badly; you realized that you acted badly because you misunderstood her, but even if you hadn't made a mistake, if she had been doing exactly what you thought she was doing, it still would have been wrong to act in such a way.

And, for the apology thing, I'm not saying that you aren't sincere, or don't mean it, I'm saying that sometimes even the most well meaning people can screw things up by saying the wrong thing. This happens for myriad reasons, most of which have to do with pride, and ususally comes down to not understanding/thinking about the other person's feelings. This doesn't make you a bad person, or even a jerk, but it can cause problems.

Gnome King
2007-06-26, 02:06 AM
Meh, I shouldent even be posting this late to begin with, It makes me volatile.

You have my apologies, I misinterpreted your statement. My bad.:smallsigh:

Now...I needs me some sleepy.

Nerzi
2007-06-26, 04:38 AM
Nerzi, did you actually say "I don't really like you socializing with the girl who you hardly even know and was one of my friends until she went behind my back and slept with you the week after we split up while you were on the rebound, before we got back together, so could you please not? I mean you're not actually even friends in any sense of the word." ? If not, we to tend to be hugely socially (and emotionally, and subtlety, etc.) ignorant. Just a tip.

Well obviously I didn't use those exact words, was paraphrasing but yes the message was very clear. He hardly knew her when they did get together and he doesn't even like her so I felt justified in asking as soon as we got back together that he not voluntarily have anything to do with her (If they'd actually been friends beforehand and had a friendly relationship I would not have asked him to have no contact with her because I do HATE people trying to control their partner, and it would make me seem jealous which I'm not, I simply hate her.). He obviously got the message then as he deleted her from his phonebook and IM.
I think the intervening months probably just clouded his memory on that particular issue and he was just trying to be sociable with everyone at the party. Though really he should have known that asking her to pose sluttily with him would not go down well I know he didn't actually mean to annoy me so he is forgiven on the proviso he doesn't do it again. As I said I talked things over with him and spelt out the do's and don'ts so we don't get a repetition of that.

Logic
2007-06-26, 04:47 AM
Hopeless romantic is actually my label from one of my friends. My brother agreed with him saying "Yeah, it's like your emo, but you don't hate your dad"


Y'know, as a hopeless romantic, I take offense to that.:smallamused:

As do I. (Neccasary characters to bring it to more than 10 characters.)

EDIT:

@ Syka: How are you so sure he did not go out on a date with this girl? Few women I talk to would say "I had a great time last night" to a male about a previous event if it were not a date.

If I am interpreting things correctly, then he has lied by the simple fact that he said he would inform you of anyone he was planning on dating as well.

Also, if you told him the benefits of a serious relationship, and he comes back all ready, be VERY wary. From your descriptions he seems very devious, if not downright shady.

The Prince of Cats
2007-06-26, 07:11 AM
Let me be the third hopeless romantic to chime in; I am offended by any comparison to emo... I am goth if anything... :smallwink:

I would risk everything for the love of a good woman (I did, it paid off) and never look back with regret. Fortune favours the bold and, to me, being a hopeless romantic is having the guts to love deeply and without reservation.

Falling for and staying with a toad is not hopeless romantic, it is hopeless masochism... Love without reservations, but recognise a lost cause. Live for the moment, because all good things must come to an end, but accept their ending without 'what-if's.

Ranis
2007-06-26, 07:27 AM
I just woke up this morning, and I decided that I am not going to contact her today. Show that I can give space and let her think about things. As the saying goes, if you really care about them, you care enough to let them go.

Serpentine
2007-06-26, 07:45 AM
Hm. I should probably clarify that my "sorry but" comment was a general one, not aimed at anything in particular - just good, sound advice.

Ranis, I hope you can pull it all back together one way or another.

zeratul
2007-06-26, 09:55 AM
Hey I take offense to being called emo too. However I still thinnkk the quote is funny. Like POC I'm goth if anything.

Pyrian
2007-06-26, 10:14 AM
Heh, I was wondering at first if you guys were offended at being told you don't hate your fathers. Hopeless romantic but not emo? Sorry, guys, no chance, those hairs are too thin to split, goth or not.

zeratul
2007-06-26, 10:25 AM
In any case I got my res[pnse, she basically said

Flattered, but needs some time to mull things over

Syka
2007-06-26, 11:48 AM
Heh, no I have not yet told him of the possible benefits to a serious relationship. He is still operating under the assumption I will let him know when I'm ready. I'm going to approach it as, "You know, I thought I'd be ok with it, but since we've been dating for a while now, I think that I really would need it to get serious, and since I know you don't want that right now, is it cool if we go back to being friends?" Before this, though, I'm going to address the not telling the whole story deal.

I'm pretty sure it's not a date because he has known this girl longer than I have known him and I think they have only hung out a couple times. I mean, I could always be wrong but I doubt it. If it is, then he spends far more time communicating with me, on his computer, and with his band then he does with her. Far, far more time (though he'd still be in the pisser). As for a girl posting that, I'm the type of girl that does that and I've got friends, too, who do it. Both of us hang out with a lot of guys and sometimes they're hard to get a hold of (trust me, he is one of the hard to get a hold of guys, which is why I make sure he is normally the one to contact me), so the way we let them know we had fun rather than playing phone tag is through Facebook and Myspace. I do it to both my male and female friends.

Cheers,
Syka

PS- Go zeratul, it's your birthday. ;)

Vampiric
2007-06-26, 12:34 PM
@zeratul: at the moment, that's a good thing, my friend. If she starts avoiding you, then things (possibly obviously) have taken a turn for the worse. I would talk to her about it, if that happens. If not, you either continue to have a good friend, or you've got a girlfriend!

@Ranis: That can be a good thing, depending on the girl. Don't be too distant, though.

AngelSword
2007-06-26, 01:34 PM
Heh, I was wondering at first if you guys were offended at being told you don't hate your fathers. Hopeless romantic but not emo? Sorry, guys, no chance, those hairs are too thin to split, goth or not.

Hairs? No, the differences are tree-trunk-thick. To me, a hopeless romantic (http://dualangel.livejournal.com/95290.html) is someone who loves love, goes to the ends of the earth for whomever is the target of their affection, is chivalrous, and relishes the simple moments (lying in bed cuddling, staying up hours past reason just to speak to them for ten minutes, holding hands, and the like).

Emo is something different. Emo wallows in self loathing, complains that no one loves them, views themselves as worthless, and will talk of harming themselves yet will never do it themselves.

Goth, however, is different still. Barring the obvious joke about sacking Rome, goth involves a general contempt for popular culture and society. Goth does not include depression, suicidal tendencies, or shopping at Hot Topic.

While the Goth and Emo scenes spawned out of the same scene (Punk), they are not one in the same.

Jibar
2007-06-26, 01:37 PM
Hairs? No, the differences are tree-trunk-thick. To me, a hopeless romantic (http://dualangel.livejournal.com/95290.html) is someone who loves love, goes to the ends of the earth for whomever is the target of their affection, is chivalrous, and relishes the simple moments (lying in bed cuddling, staying up hours past reason just to speak to them for ten minutes, holding hands, and the like).

Emo is something different. Emo wallows in self loathing, complains that no one loves them, views themselves as worthless, and will talk of harming themselves yet will never do it themselves.


Why do I have to fit in both?

AngelSword
2007-06-26, 01:45 PM
Why do I have to fit in both?
Well, are you making self loathing a fashion statement? Are you complaining about the lack of love as a recent breakup? Are you talking about hurting yourself because all your friends are doing it?

Hopeless romantics are emotional people. Without someone to give their love to, they can, at times, appear to be Emo. However, it does tend to go away after a while.

The Prince of Cats
2007-06-26, 02:23 PM
Hopeless romantic but not emo? Sorry, guys, no chance, those hairs are too thin to split, goth or not.
Either you know some amazingly upbeat emos, or you have no idea what it means to be a romantic. (unless you mean New Romantics, they look like proto-emo in some ways)

Emos mope, romantics swing from chandeliers...

Pyrian
2007-06-26, 02:23 PM
So, here's where this started:
Hopeless romantic is actually my label from one of my friends. My brother agreed with him saying "Yeah, it's like your emo, but you don't hate your dad"Now you people are getting offended that someone was described as being hopelessly romantic and partially emo. So, in so doing, you're claiming that this is impossible, totally contradictory, that emo is flat out not a valid characterization for a hopeless romantic. That's what you'd have to claim to claim insult from zeratul's post.

That's also patently ridiculous. I mean, AngelSword himself flat out admitted that "Hopeless romantics ... can, at times, appear to be Emo" - and if there's overlap, then you have no grounds to be offended.

averagejoe
2007-06-26, 02:35 PM
Either you know some amazingly upbeat emos, or you have no idea what it means to be a romantic. (unless you mean New Romantics, they look like proto-emo in some ways)

Emos mope, romantics swing from chandeliers...

I can be a hopeless romantic, but more in terms of the post-industrial literary movement. I'll be like, "Yeah, the wilderness is actually pretty cool. And how about that Lady of Shalott?"

Pyrian
2007-06-26, 02:43 PM
I can be a hopeless romantic, but more in terms of the post-industrial literary movement. I'll be like, "Yeah, the wilderness is actually pretty cool. And how about that Lady of Shalott?"Sweeeet. :) People seem to forget how old some of these terms really are. (Well, aside from Emo, but even that originated as a shortening of emotional.) Seriously, a punk band got called "Gothic" and somehow hundreds of years of history disappeared? I don't think so. Within Temptation is far more genuinely Gothic in theme than pseudo-industrial metal could ever hope to be.

averagejoe
2007-06-26, 03:13 PM
Sweeeet. :) People seem to forget how old some of these terms really are. (Well, aside from Emo, but even that originated as a shortening of emotional.) Seriously, a punk band got called "Gothic" and somehow hundreds of years of history disappeared? I don't think so. Within Temptation is far more genuinely Gothic in theme than pseudo-industrial metal could ever hope to be.

Yeah, but the pointed arches never really did it for me. :smallwink:

AngelSword
2007-06-26, 03:17 PM
Sweeeet. :) People seem to forget how old some of these terms really are.

Likewise, Mr. Pot:smalltongue:

Syka
2007-06-26, 04:33 PM
*points to Random Banter* Sorry guys, but this is getting a little to far off the beaten path. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Ranis
2007-06-26, 10:08 PM
Well, I'm an idiot. At first I was dodging her today at work, then I get a note that says, "If you want to get my trust back, then you need to talk to me silly."

So I stay after work for 30 minutes until she gets off, then try to talk to her, which she agrees to. We sit down and...silence. I try to start conversations, but it's extremely apparent that she's not interested anymore. So I'm done. I know when to pick up the pieces and move on. I feel like an idiot for beating myself up so much over this.

This is going to sound extremely arrogant, but I mean it in the nicest way possible. She's not smart enough for me. I enjoy having intellectual/philosophical conversations with people, and I know that I could never, ever do that with her. She's just not on the same level that I am. I know that sounds bad, but it's the truth. So, I'm not really upset right now, just frustrated that I didn't see this sooner. Thanks to everyone who has helped with this little conundrum. I'm sorry that it went up in flames, but perhaps it's for the best.

No, as a matter of fact, it is for the best.

Yiel
2007-06-26, 11:04 PM
Poor Ranis :o( I'm sorry it didn't work out. *hugs and cookies*

Syka, it sounds like you have a pretty good grip on the situation, and know what you want to do and say. So stick to your plan girl and don't let yourself be hurt if he can't give you what you need in a relationship right now.

Ranis
2007-06-26, 11:07 PM
Hugs AND cookies? I'm spoiled now. ^_^

Thanks. I should have gone with my gut instinct in the first place with this new girl at work that I met, but my mind gets t3h fuzzies when I don't think things through all the way.

Syka
2007-06-27, 12:01 AM
Ok, so I totally wimped out tonight. :( I had the chance to when we went for a walk. I just couldn't bring myself to do it then...I don't know why.

I think part of it is, I haven't had so much fun (on a consistent basis) with someone as I have with him in a long time. I'm scared to jepordize (sp?) that. :smallfrown: So, if I can't suck it up in the next day or two, I might just tell him over AIM (which I'm sure I could do, even though it is an extremely wimpy way of doing it), or try and emotionally take a step back.

*sigh* I hate being conflicted like this. Half of me thinks I should just move on, the other half wants to hang on to what I do have. I don't think the second half is right.

I just hope that we could remain friends...As a friend, he's become a good one. :-\

Cheers,
Syka

Flakey
2007-06-27, 12:21 AM
There should be no problem with just remaining friends. Looks like your already there, from a certain point of view. Your anouncement just means an end to the kissing and cuddling thats been going on before hand.

Syka
2007-06-27, 12:57 AM
This is true. That actually does make me feel better about it. :smallsmile: I mean, tonight we literally just played video games, looked at some guitars, and went for a walk.

I think he wants to go shopping at some point...>>' (Yes, a guy who wants to go shopping. Hehe. If he still wants me to go with him, I'll have fun dressing him. I like dressing other people, but I'm too picky with my own stuff/don't have money for the stuff I want.)


Cheers,
Syka

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-27, 06:18 AM
I think he wants to go shopping at some point...>>' (Yes, a guy who wants to go shopping. Hehe
Syka

Then you´ve met a guy i´ve never met.
Sweet for you.

Ranis
2007-06-27, 10:26 PM
So, apparently I've been doing something wrong. I'm going to tell you a story, then you tell me if I did anything wrong.

Yesterday, I was still feeling very, very bad about what I had done to the girl I mentioned earlier. So, I decide to let everything cool down for a couple of days. No sweat.

I get this note given to me at work by a girl that I don't know. It's from the girl I hurt, and it says, "Want to know how to get my trust back? You have to talk to me." It had been quite apparent that I had been avoiding her all day, so I guess it was merited. I took this as a simple example of her ready to talk to me about things earlier than I had anticipated. No sweat.

So when I get off, I ask her if she wants to talk. She agrees to talk to me. Cool. I sit at a bench and wait for 30 minutes for her to get off work, and she comes up to me and says, "Let's go." So we start walking around the store a bit, and end up sitting on some rock salt outside. I spent the next ten minutes attempting to initiate conversation, which never happened. Every time I would say something to talk about anything, all I got were simple yes/no answers, or just very blunt answers that didn't really leave much room to conversate. Oh, and she never looked at me once while this was going on. She interrupted me in the middle of a sentence and said, "I'm gonna go now."

This really, really ticked me off. All of the things she had said got my hopes up, that maybe there was a way to salvage this, and she spit it back in my face.

"What a bitch."

That was what I said in casual conversation to another one of my friends at work about her, explaining what had happened. I also gave it some serious thought last night, and came to the conclusion that I really think that she's not smart enough for me. Let me put that into perspective: the ability for a girl to have an intellectual conversation with me about...well...something, is important to me. Every time I tried to do this with her, it got shot out of the sky like a plane during Pearl Harbor. So I also told this to the co-worker, with whom I happen to be very good friends.

I feel like I have the right to be saying these things about this girl, because I feel like I've been lied to. She lied about wanting to talk, otherwise she would have, y'know, talked to me. So out of frustration, I have given a label to her actions. I feel this is perfectly justified.

Fast-forward to about 20 minutes ago, after said co-worker friend has just chewed me out for "treating (girl I did big mistake with) badly."

Wait, what? She just did the exact same thing to me. You know, severely hurt my feelings. And lie to me. Which I consider to be on the same level as what I did to her.

So, have I done something wrong here? Or is said co-worker just flipped out? (FYI, said co-worker is one of those extreme bible-thumpers who gets offended when you cuss around them. Yes, it's that bad.)

PS. I'm done, btw. I'm done with all of this drama BS that is going around work. It's stupid, it's ignorant, it's childish, and I have more important things to worry about. So I'm done. The thing that bothers me the most is that people open their mouths about things they don't know about, and rumors start, then I'm the one that looks really bad because of something I never did. Woot for teenage girls. -_-

zeratul
2007-06-27, 11:33 PM
Well aside from the initial response from the girl, nothing else yet, although it hasn't even been a weak since the initial one.

averagejoe
2007-06-27, 11:57 PM
"What a bitch."

Okay, wait, hold on right there. Not cool. Doesn't matter what she did to you, doesn't matter if she deserved it, that is not okay. Besides the whole thing with lashing out in general (which never helps things.) it's demeaning to women in general.

Okay, I keep having to say this, so I'm going to say it real loud so everyone could hear. This isn't just to you, Ranis, but for everybody. Seriously, everybody, pay attention. Ready? Now repeat carefully after me.

ACTING OUT IN ANGER NEVER SOLVES ANYTHING, EVEN IF THE OTHER PERSON REALLY REALLY DESERVES IT.

So, yes, maybe she did deserve it, but you acted badly as well. Not at the mall bit, but afterward. Demeaning her solves absolutely no purpose; the whole thing is just a glorified urinating contest. Don't start it, and if she started it, don't stoop to that level.

Although, saying you're too smart for your girlfriend is never actually a smart idea, even if it's true. I actually do know what you're talking about on this point, as it's one of my issues as well. I would bet, however, that she could have a thing or two to teach you if you'd listen.

Syka
2007-06-28, 12:13 AM
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say you were in the wrong here.

She didn't necessarily lie to you, perhaps she just wasn't comfortable talking right at that moment, maybe other stuff had happened that day to stress her out and she wasn't feeling up to the task. Keep in mind YOU are the one who has to tip toe here, not her. YOU are the one working to be friends with her again. YOU are responsible for keeping your cool.

Calling her names is extremely rude. Extremely. I have never called my ex a name, unless I was venting to my private live journal. I, in fact, would stop my friends from badmouthing him (well, ok, maybe a couple times I let them...>>). From the time we broke up to now I have never said anything about him that I wouldn't have said while we were together. He is still intelligent, a good kisser, etc.

By you saying she is suddenly not intelligent enough for you, it honestly sounds like bitterness. It might not be, but that is how it is coming across. My advice would be to drop any sort of relationship with her as you seem incapable of handling it if it goes in any other direction than what you want, unfortunately.


As for me...hung out with him again tonight. No way was I going to bring it up. Today...actually, all week has been pretty stressful for me since I got home with my computers wireless net not working, my Myspace getting deleted, etc. He is the least of my worries at the moment, and right now I can honestly use someone to help me relax, and he's pretty much the only one with success in that department right now. But yah...7 hours with tech support that SUCKS tends to stress one out.

Cheers,
Syka

AngelSword
2007-06-28, 12:41 AM
I have an odd situation, but I won't put it here, since it might involve volatile language. If anyone is willing to hear me, PM me.

Pyrian
2007-06-28, 04:02 AM
Ranis, that story, albeit with many details missing, makes you look really bad. I'm sorry, but it does. It may be that my imagination is filling in the wrong details, but still, I sense a disconnect between how you perceive yourself and how you're coming across.


I spent the next ten minutes attempting to initiate conversation, which never happened. Every time I would say something to talk about anything, all I got were simple yes/no answers, or just very blunt answers that didn't really leave much room to conversate. Oh, and she never looked at me once while this was going on. She interrupted me in the middle of a sentence and said, "I'm gonna go now."That sounds very uncomfortable - for both of you. But from this I can't really tell what happened; it makes a big difference what you said. I strongly suspect that you did indeed do something horribly inappropriate - like making small talk at someone who's deeply hurting inside because of you. It might seem reasonable, but it's often very damaging, and it basically makes you come across as not caring about them (as does avoiding them in the first place).

I would've handled this situation more or less as follows: start with a full apology at some length, including acknowledging the mistake, explicitly accepting responsibility, offering to do whatever was possible to make it right (frequently this is not possible but the offer should be there anyway), and explicitly committing to not making the same mistake again (frequently this should include saying what you learned from the experience).

Then I would've asked what she was thinking, what she was feeling, and what she wanted to do now - and not judge her answers in any way. Let her take as long as she wants and say as much or as little as she wants, and even offer to listen to her later if she needed more time to think about things. Sometimes a silent, patient expression of support is what someone needs the most.


Let me put that into perspective: the ability for a girl to have an intellectual conversation with me about...well...something, is important to me.Wait, what? You never sat down and chatted with this girl before? Expecting scintillating conversation from someone in obvious pain is totally unreasonable. That was not the time to be judgmental.


I feel like I have the right to be saying these things about this girl, because I feel like I've been lied to. She lied about wanting to talk, otherwise she would have, y'know, talked to me. So out of frustration, I have given a label to her actions. I feel this is perfectly justified.Have a heart. You're really, really being horrible, right here. "Lying" is not the same thing as being wrong, and you have no reason to think she did that to you with some kind of weird malicious purpose. (Even if she did, you may have earned it.) You're blaming that train wreck of a conversation on her and she's probably blaming it on you - and, based on the self-righteous insensitivity you're showing right here, I'm guessing she has more cause. Sorry, but that's what I'm seeing. I don't know what you said or what she was expecting in that encounter, but it IS painfully obvious that the two did not mesh - and I don't think either of you made that disconnect on purpose.

Flakey
2007-06-28, 05:24 AM
It's from the girl I hurt, and it says, "Want to know how to get my trust back? You have to talk to me."


I spent the next ten minutes attempting to initiate conversation,


"What a bitch."


an intellectual conversation with me about...well...something


I am sorry Ranis, but your very in the wrong here. Despite her having been hurt by you, she sends you a clear sign that she wants to try to patch things up and make a go of it (As shown by the note).

So you atempt a conversation, when I bet what she wanted was another apology about the way you treated her in her home, an apology or explanation of why you avoided her in work. Folllowed by an emotional, not, repeat not an "intellectual" disscusion. She defined the terms of the conversation in her note. It should have been about rebuilding her trust in you. Instead, even if this was not your intent, it came across as you did not care about that. That just talking to her, would cause the trust to rebuild.

Ohhh and calling her a bitch, when you were the one that damaged the relationship, and she was the one that tried to rebuild it, was also wrong. I am not surprised your fellow worker exploded on you.

Ranis
2007-06-28, 08:27 AM
She didn't necessarily lie to you, perhaps she just wasn't comfortable talking right at that moment, maybe other stuff had happened that day to stress her out and she wasn't feeling up to the task. Keep in mind YOU are the one who has to tip toe here, not her. YOU are the one working to be friends with her again. YOU are responsible for keeping your cool.

I was going to give it at least a week for everything to blow over before initiating conversation again. That was my plan. But then I get that note, that note that says she wants to talk. And she doesn't talk to me. So that was the final straw.


Calling her names is extremely rude. Extremely. I have never called my ex a name, unless I was venting to my private live journal. I, in fact, would stop my friends from badmouthing him (well, ok, maybe a couple times I let them...>>). From the time we broke up to now I have never said anything about him that I wouldn't have said while we were together. He is still intelligent, a good kisser, etc.

Okay, okay, I understand. This wasn't the thing to do. Anger problems have always been a recurring nightmare in my life.


By you saying she is suddenly not intelligent enough for you, it honestly sounds like bitterness. It might not be, but that is how it is coming across.

I'll address this later.


That sounds very uncomfortable - for both of you. But from this I can't really tell what happened; it makes a big difference what you said. I strongly suspect that you did indeed do something horribly inappropriate - like making small talk at someone who's deeply hurting inside because of you. It might seem reasonable, but it's often very damaging, and it basically makes you come across as not caring about them (as does avoiding them in the first place).

Like I've said a couple of times, I didn't think enough time has passed for us to be engaging in casual conversation again, but it appeared to be a different case with her. So I tried.


I would've handled this situation more or less as follows: start with a full apology at some length, including acknowledging the mistake, explicitly accepting responsibility, offering to do whatever was possible to make it right (frequently this is not possible but the offer should be there anyway), and explicitly committing to not making the same mistake again (frequently this should include saying what you learned from the experience).

You know what? I had already done this. Several times, in fact. I did this the frigging night that it happened. She seemed immune to an apology. Each one came from my heart and was sincere. I assure you that this had been done several times before, and I had been assured that she "understood."


Then I would've asked what she was thinking, what she was feeling, and what she wanted to do now - and not judge her answers in any way. Let her take as long as she wants and say as much or as little as she wants, and even offer to listen to her later if she needed more time to think about things. Sometimes a silent, patient expression of support is what someone needs the most.

Yeah, I tried asking her about school and things. And trips and such. Small talk. I already knew how she was feeling, at least I thought so. The problem is, for talking, or a conversation, to happen, there needs to be at least two people engaged.

"So, you decide on a major yet?"
"No."
"So, umm, your family decide where you're going on vacation in August?"
"Florida."
"Ah. What're you going to do there?"
"We don't know".
"Oh. Well, I've been to Flor-"
"Hey, I'm gonna go."

And she left. That's the extent of the "conversation" we had. She picked up her keys and walked not outside to her car, but back into the store, presumably to talk to said co-worker before she left. I dunno.


Wait, what? You never sat down and chatted with this girl before? Expecting scintillating conversation from someone in obvious pain is totally unreasonable. That was not the time to be judgmental.

Oh, we most certainly did chat. About things. But I was talking about intellectual conversation in general. I enjoy talking to people about Existentialism, Ethics, and Moral Relativism, among other things. You know, abstract concepts. Any time that I tried to talk to her about things like that, I was shot down and the conversation moved elsewhere.


So you atempt a conversation, when I bet what she wanted was another apology about the way you treated her in her home, an apology or explanation of why you avoided her in work. Folllowed by an emotional, not, repeat not an "intellectual" disscusion. She defined the terms of the conversation in her note. It should have been about rebuilding her trust in you. Instead, even if this was not your intent, it came across as you did not care about that. That just talking to her, would cause the trust to rebuild.

Ah, there was a bit of the story I left out, that I didn't think was important. But I'll share now. Earlier that night, it was 9:00ish, and she came by my department to use the restroom. I stopped her.

"Hey, I'm sorry for avoiding you earlier, I just feel like I'm walking on pins and needles here."
"Hey, it's alright. Everything's okay now." She gave me a hug.

With that hug, that hug told me A) She understood my apologies, B) had given enough thought to want to talk to me again, and C) wanted to get over all of this. So I was expecting to have a nice, pleasant, small conversation with her about random things. You know, talk about things that friends talk about.

Well, it was certainly short.

Oh, and thanks guys. I really needed this insight. *Thinks about things*

Zeb The Troll
2007-06-28, 08:46 AM
Ranis -

I don't want to rehash anything anyone else has said, but I'm going to throw in an angle that I haven't seen yet just for consideration.

Perhaps she had something she wanted to say to you, prompting her to get a note to you, and then when the opportunity was presented, she chickened out. It's possible that her one word answers were because she was focusing on what she wanted to say and that her sudden exit was because she saw that it was getting awkward and didn't know how to end the situation more gracefully.

It's also possible that some of your commentary to your coworkers got back to her after she wrote the note and she'd changed her mind because of it.

Just a couple of things for you to mull over.

Ranis
2007-06-28, 08:50 AM
Ranis -

I don't want to rehash anything anyone else has said, but I'm going to throw in an angle that I haven't seen yet just for consideration.

Perhaps she had something she wanted to say to you, prompting her to get a note to you, and then when the opportunity was presented, she chickened out. It's possible that her one word answers were because she was focusing on what she wanted to say and that her sudden exit was because she saw that it was getting awkward and didn't know how to end the situation more gracefully.

It's also possible that some of your commentary to your coworkers got back to her after she wrote the note and she'd changed her mind because of it.

Just a couple of things for you to mull over.


:smalleek:

That....that's brilliant. That might have been exactly what it was.

And the commentary happened the day after this conversation. Commentary = yesterday. Conversation = Monday.

Zeb The Troll
2007-06-28, 09:09 AM
We guys don't have a monopoly on having trouble talking about the tough topics.*

*Though we do have a disproportianately large share of the market.

Syka
2007-06-28, 09:45 AM
Ranis, to give you a girls perspective. You all know what happened with the guy I'm dating. He has apologized, etc. I'm STILL trying to figure out how to talk to him about it and if I should. He probably has no clue it's still bugging me. But it is. I've hung out with him twice since, so everything on the surface seems ok.

We can be good at glossing stuff over but not quite understanding how to broach the subject to fix it.

And, just so you know. I'm an intelligent person. But moral relativism and existentialism are not my fields of expertise so I would be fairly out of my element. Start talking about writing, Classical Civ, or animals? I'm all over that. Just because she didn't fit into YOUR narrow little box of intelligence, doesn't mean she wasn't. Did you bother to find out what areas she had a lot of information about? I recall in a previous post about her saying she was very "attractive...both mentally and physically".



Speaking of my situation. I spoke with my mom again. She thinks I should just approach this as a fun situation, keep my emotional distance for the time being, and keep my options open. Having calmed down, I think this may be the best course of action because the vast majority of the time I'm happy with him. He is normally my destresser and, yes, I admittedly enjoy cuddling and all.

That and I think I'm mostly over what happened on Sun/Mon. *shrug* I'm fickle sometimes. I usually just need a place to vent myself in order that I don't do something rash. I apologize for that and I will try to keep that to a minimum from now on.

Once again, thanks all of you guys.

Cheers,
Syka

Vonriel
2007-06-28, 10:44 AM
...I already knew how she was feeling, at least I thought so. ...

This was another mistake. Never assume you know how a person is feeling, because 99% of the time you will be wrong. I repeat, you will be wrong. If that was the entirety of the conversation, you never asked why she wanted to talk, you never asked if there was anything she wanted to talk about, you never asked specifically how she was feeling or what was on her mind. You tried to make smalltalk, and others have already covered this point. Assuming is definitely the worst thing you can do when it comes to people, because we have emotions. Somebody may go against the assumption on the basis that they were offended that you'd presume to know what they were feeling without asking - even if you assumed right.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm with the crowd that says you messed up. However, all my other points have been covered save that one, so.

__________

Syka, your mom sounds like a wise person. I think I'm going to chime in with the crowd who said that you're lucky to have a mother you can go to on things like this. Though, I don't think that these feelings won't come up again. It's not like they only came up once by happenstance.

Syka
2007-06-28, 11:31 AM
Vonriel, I know they will. :smallannoyed: *grumble* I can just put them aside for the time being, I'm very good at compartimentalizing stuff and enjoying what I'm doing at the moment. I'm just going to try and be happy now. If I start to see myself being unhappy more than happy, that is when I'm going to bring it up.

I love my mom. Even though I may not always like her advice, I recognize that the vast majority of the time she is correct and if I don't listen it's at my own peril. :smallwink:

Cheers,
Syka

magicwalker
2007-06-28, 12:17 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Syka. I can be completely obsessed with something/someone one day... and completely detached the next.

All it takes is something else to consumes all the time that you would otherwise spend thinking about that something.

Of course the feelings are still there, you're only distracting yourself from them...

Thrawn183
2007-06-28, 02:12 PM
Assuming is definitely the worst thing you can do when it comes to people, because we have emotions. Somebody may go against the assumption on the basis that they were offended that you'd presume to know what they were feeling without asking - even if you assumed right.

This really, really reminds me of the gaming aritcle on this very site, Emotional Responses in the Play Style section, advocating playing npc's as emotional rather than logical. Stating that sometimes people do things that don't make sense.

I just reread it today, and I've gotta say... man does it apply to the real world. Maybe, just maybe, even to some of the things we're talking about right here in this thread. (I meant that to be humorous not offensive, btw)

Ranis
2007-06-29, 08:43 AM
Hey guys, more news. I got so stressed out and upset about everything that's been going on over the past couple of days that I had a huge anxiety attack at work. A fire truck came and got me and everything. Huge, violent chest pains whenever I inhaled. It was really scary and embarrassing.

On the besides, thanks for beating some sense into me about the mistakes I made. I've begun righting the wrongs, or at least attempting to. I'm supposed to be at work right now, but my boss told me not to come in and to take the day to rest, so I have today and tomorrow to rest, relax, and get these residual chest pains down.

Thanks so much, guys. I would have gone absolutely crazy and I think that something more severe would have happened had you guys not 'talked' to me about things as a third party, which I sorely(desperately) needed.

Syka
2007-06-29, 12:33 PM
*hugs* It's always good to have a thirdparty. My best friend is really the only person I trust to give me an unadulterated opinion of how I'm reacting to any given situation. For instance, my other friend thinks the guy I'm dating is just bad and I shouldn't be with him at all for "all the stuff he's done to you." The funny part? The guy I'm dating hasn't done anything more or worse than what her own boyfriend has done. Yet she can't see that. Mike I trust. Everyone needs someone like that.

My situation is going pretty good. There is a new guy coming into the picture that I guess I could be considered to be flirting with. :smallredface: The chances of anything happening are basically nil (seeing as he is 6 years older than me and is of a completely different religion than I)...but flirting is still fun. A further reconsideration will happen upon getting to know him better.

Cheers,
Syka

Sir_Norbert
2007-06-29, 01:25 PM
Hey, I'm 6 years older than my girlfriend, don't dismiss older people so lightly :elan:

Syka
2007-06-29, 11:16 PM
:) I'm not. When I get back home, I might be going to his drum circle. He does tribal drumming.

Let us just hope the guy I'm dating is as open to being unexclusive as he says he is. :smallwink:

Cheers,
Syka

Callos_DeTerran
2007-06-29, 11:22 PM
Tribal drumming? What sort of religon does this new guy worship? O.o

Syka
2007-06-29, 11:33 PM
Pagan. My best friends sister was wiccan. I'm used to alternate religions. :)

blackout
2007-06-29, 11:42 PM
Earlier today, I went over to my girlfriend's house in an attempt to meet her parents in a more casual setting.

Turns out her dad's a regular nerd. Walked in on him playing DnD with a few buddies, asked if I could join. I joined, and as a result, I ended up saving everyone's butts from a freakin' ancient black dragon.

But, that's a story for another time. Her mom's almost a clone of mine, except for looks; grouchy, evil, cooks like flippin' Emeril Lagasse, hard to hate, hard to like.

:smallannoyed: I hate 'em both already.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-29, 11:45 PM
Pagan. My best friends sister was wiccan. I'm used to alternate religions. :)

My girlfriend's family is devout Catholic. Ukranian Orthodox. I kind of want to be asked to say the prayer at dinner, so I can do something suitably obnoxious like chant to Cthulhu.


PS.
Remember what Psycho Mantis said (and I'm paraphrasing here)
"Everyone wants to ****. They think about it constantly."

If you want to hook up with Mr. six years older, you shouldn't have much of a problem. Especially with your set of 38Cs or whatever.

AngelSword
2007-06-29, 11:53 PM
Drum circles are fun. :smallsmile:

Thanks to those of you who PMed me about my situation. You've given me a better perspective on the situation.

Syka
2007-06-29, 11:54 PM
Hahaha, I'm not much for the random hook up. ;) But I'm sure they won't hurt my chances.

blackout, well...at least her dad likes you, even if you are starting to hate them. :smallwink: Remember, you might hate her parent's, but as long as they like you they won't try and make your relationship a living nightmare.

Cheers,
Syka

KCiemir
2007-06-29, 11:59 PM
Sorry, I saw this tread, and decided to bring my problem here. So, I'm a 16 year male, and I recently left a year and a half relationship. Over the past few weeks, I have become smitten with a different girl, but I'm afraid I don't have the courage to approach her. I hope that you could help me get back in the game. Thanks:smallsmile: .

AngelSword
2007-06-30, 12:05 AM
Sorry, I saw this tread, and decided to bring my problem here. So, I'm a 16 year male, and I recently left a year and a half relationship. Over the past few weeks, I have become smitten with a different girl, but I'm afraid I don't have the courage to approach her. I hope that you could help me get back in the game. Thanks:smallsmile: .

Well, just go for it. Say something like, "I would like to get to know you."

What's the worst that could happen? She says no, you feel bad for a little while, and you fall for someone else. You're 16, you'll be fine.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-30, 12:06 AM
Sorry, I saw this tread, and decided to bring my problem here. So, I'm a 16 year male, and I recently left a year and a half relationship. Over the past few weeks, I have become smitten with a different girl, but I'm afraid I don't have the courage to approach her. I hope that you could help me get back in the game. Thanks:smallsmile: .

Post your pic, and hers, so we can decide.
A measure of popularity would also be good. As you guys are 16, it's less likely that confounding variables like class or income or what you drive will confound Ladder Theory.

Ranis
2007-06-30, 12:06 AM
I've been relaxing all day, and it's been doing wonders for me. I've galvanized the potentially lost friendships from having landed myself this trip to the hospital. So as much as I wish it didn't happen, at least something good came out of it.

Thanks for the hug, Syka. I've really need one over the past couple of days.


EDIT: Umm....Tor? No. He doesn't need to post a picture. It's what's on the inside that counts, not the outside.

Syka
2007-06-30, 12:16 AM
No no no, the picture is for the Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html). :) Hehe. It's actually a fairly interesting concept. Not completely true, but also not completely off. And yes, this is coming from a female who found the site hysterical.

Just ask her out. Make sure you aren't rebounding, though. Year and a half relationship at 16...or any age...is fairly long.

Cheers,
Syka

KCiemir
2007-06-30, 12:19 AM
Post your pic, and hers, so we can decide.
A measure of popularity would also be good. As you guys are 16, it's less likely that confounding variables like class or income or what you drive will confound Ladder Theory.


Unfortunately, I don't post pics, but regardless, I realize that I am only 16, and it is not a big deal. I still would enjoy advice. My hope is that it would help me today, but also in the future. 16 is not all life, but realize, that it is where I am now, so it does hold some importance to me.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-30, 12:29 AM
Unfortunately, I don't post pics, but regardless, I realize that I am only 16, and it is not a big deal. I still would enjoy advice. My hope is that it would help me today, but also in the future. 16 is not all life, but realize, that it is where I am now, so it does hold some importance to me.

I meant that when applying Ladder Theory to your situation, in all likelihood we could determine your, ah, chances, with a couple polaroids and a popularity ranking.

Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html)

Breaon
2007-06-30, 12:58 AM
My girlfriend's family is devout Catholic. Ukranian Orthodox. I kind of want to be asked to say the prayer at dinner, so I can do something suitably obnoxious like chant to Cthulhu.


PS.
Remember what Psycho Mantis said (and I'm paraphrasing here)
"Everyone wants to ****. They think about it constantly."

If you want to hook up with Mr. six years older, you shouldn't have much of a problem. Especially with your set of 38Cs or whatever.

"Father, son, holy ghost.
First one done, ate the most!

Dig in!"

:) My uncle used to do that when he was growing up (in a Catholic family.) Still gets him in trouble :smallbiggrin:

CockroachTeaParty
2007-06-30, 01:26 AM
Ladder Theory? What's this?

...

ARRGH!! I'm an intellectual whore! CURSE YOU LADDER THEORY!!

*froths*

edit: Oh, by the way, Psycho Mantis is the man, which makes Solid Snake the manner, which makes Hideo Kojima the manest.

Serpentine
2007-06-30, 01:34 AM
Sorry, I saw this tread, and decided to bring my problem here. So, I'm a 16 year male, and I recently left a year and a half relationship. Over the past few weeks, I have become smitten with a different girl, but I'm afraid I don't have the courage to approach her. I hope that you could help me get back in the game. Thanks:smallsmile: .
First of all, why are you apologising?:smallconfused:
Secondly, as someone else said, watch out for being on the rebound. On the other hand, as was also pointed out, you are only 16, unlikely to be looking for a life partner or anything, so what does it really matter if you are on the rebound?
As for how to approach her... well, it'd be easier to offer advice if you could tell us a little more about the two of you. As is, I would suggest keeping an eye out for opportunities to sit with her and/or strike up a conversation. From there (as well as discovering what you have in common and whether this girl really is worth befriending/pursuing), if you find out that, say, you both like a particular computer game, you could just invite her around to play sometime or whatever.

Vampiric
2007-06-30, 07:27 AM
I have a woe. My girlfriend of two years has told me last night that she doesn't feel she's 'in the right place' for a relationship. She's moving away soon, although it's not an inaccessible (I have an aunt and uncle who live in the same area). We both love each other (appropriate phrases having been exchanged), and she's told me that if and when she feels ready to get back together, she'll tell me. Unfortunately, this is an indeterminate period. I don't know what I'm going to do. I feel confused, and I guess I'm looking for a way to deal with this. She says that we should try being with other people. Problem is, I don't want to. And I don't want to get over her either. And I have told her all of this.

Advice gladly taken. Hell, I need it.

Ranis
2007-06-30, 08:13 AM
To quote a very famous comedian: "If she wants to start riding another horse, if she hasn't picked a mare from the pasture, she has taken the saddle out of the barn."

I don't mean to be harsh here, but it's always a possibility.

How did she react to you telling her that you don't want to see other people and didn't want to get over her?

Vampiric
2007-06-30, 08:29 AM
well, she said that she has considered it with one guy (whom I hate) but she says not anymore. She said she felt the same, but that we should try. I just feel lost. I have no idea what to do. Thanks for bringing it up, but, as you might guess, it's not something I want to be considering right now...

Swedish chef
2007-06-30, 09:37 AM
How do I stop beeing "That guy"? I mean i know quite a lot of girls. All of them very nice and sweet and I could easily fall in love with many of them, and sometimes I have. My problem is that I am "that guy". The guy that girls only become friends with, the guy you talk to about everything and nothing. He who gives advice about this and that. I have always had bad luck with girls, I either end up beeing friends with them or loose contact entirely. I was bullied in school for my looks and I am aware that i have some complex about that, I get shy when i realise that i really like someone. None of my friends or the people who know me could possibly tell that Im shy. Im normally very outgoing and friendly but when I meet a girl that I like, it all goes bonkers. I have no idea what to do. Advice please.

Ego Slayer
2007-06-30, 09:56 AM
No no no, the picture is for the Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html). :) Hehe. It's actually a fairly interesting concept. Not completely true, but also not completely off.
My opinion on it has a freaking pie chart too! 5% truth, 95% bs.
It's an interesting idea, but in what I read I did not see a grain of truth. Yes, there are people like that, but no.:smalltongue:

"I feel like I can talk to you about anything"
Does not mean being on the 'friends ladder.' Where the heck is this person getting this information from.

That's my rant. Back to your woe-ing, and advice-ing.

Syka
2007-06-30, 10:14 AM
Vampiric, there are one of two situations at work here.

A. She's listening to people tell you that "You are young and should date other people, this is a time to have fun!" I'm assuming you are late high schoo, early college age. If this is the case, you should be in the clear, because that is honestly a load of BS. I don't need to date around to know what I want in a guy. I don't need to kiss a million guys to determine if you are a 'good kisser'. There is a good possibility that this is what friends and family are telling her. Heck, with my first relationship, my GRANDMOTHER and his MOM told us we should date around and not be serious when we first went out. We ended up being together for three and a half years.

B. She wants to try and find something better, but wants to keep you in the wings "just in case" there is nothing better. Which is a *itch of a thing to do. If this is the case, drop her like she's a bomb and move on. You DON'T want to be with someone like that, because if they DO end up finding something better after you've gotten back together, they'll leave you in a heart beat.

Now...it's determining what's going on thats the hard part. I'd just ask her why she thinks you need time apart. Is it people telling her that you guys should? Or is it her really wanting to date others?

I wish you the best of luck, this stuff is hard to get past.

----------

Swedish Chef, ask a girl you like out. There is a window, different for everyone, of time in which there are Romantic Possibilities. Before that window and they will say "I need to get to know you better." After that window you are "Too good of a friend." The key to striking a balance is after having a few conversations with them, just ask if they'd like to go get coffee or something. Make it just a casual thing, get to know them better. Then ask them on The Date if that goes well. A pre-date, if you will.

I understand being shy is hard, I'm one of those people. But there comes a time where us shy ones just need to buck up and be heard. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Swedish chef
2007-06-30, 10:27 AM
Thanks Syka I sort of needed that. Im a peopleperson and easily "reads" people but with girls i like that window just seems like an impossible thing to find. I guess it wouldnt be a problem if I could get a girl alone to ask but when people is around everything pretty much go haywire in my brain. *baaad brain baaaaaaaad*

Flakey
2007-06-30, 11:19 AM
Vampiric I agree with Skya. Find out why shes doing this, and try to change her mind. If she does go on with it, tell her thats the end of the two of you, and mean it. It will hurt like hell, but believe me in the long term its far less painfull for you than waiting around as she has fun, wondering if she will ever return to you.

Hushdawg
2007-06-30, 11:20 AM
Swedish Chef: Dude, I've been there. I've been the "that guy" for a long time and I know that it can be very frustrating.

Take chances, ask women out; face the rejection with a smile because one day the right girl will say "yes" and you'll be insanely happy.

I married just this May to a woman I met online in January.
We had a whirlwind courtship and she is absolutely everything that I could have ever wanted in a woman.

I had to suffer through many many years of being "that guy" before I found her and I would gladly do it all again.

You just be strong in heart, try not to fall in love too fast (seems to be a regular trait with guys like us) and keep trying.

Also, look at who the person is and think seriously about a relationship with that person. If you keep looking for a "Ms Right" instead of just a "Ms Right Now" then your success rate in dating and the overall relationship will be much higher.

Swedish chef
2007-06-30, 11:23 AM
Thanks a million Hushdawg.

Pyrian
2007-06-30, 03:39 PM
My girlfriend of two years has told me last night that she doesn't feel she's 'in the right place' for a relationship.I think what you need to know that you don't seem to have totally grasped here is that you've been dumped. It was just done in what women tend to think is the nicest possible way (it really isn't, in most cases). Most women (and indeed many men) are highly reluctant to seriously criticize somebody actually present (i.e. you or her). So, you get this "I'm not in the right place for a relationship" instead of "I think I can do better than you".

Fallon
2007-06-30, 07:53 PM
Also, look at who the person is and think seriously about a relationship with that person. If you keep looking for a "Ms Right" instead of just a "Ms Right Now" then your success rate in dating and the overall relationship will be much higher.

That helps a lot with relationships, thinking more about the long term. I had a lot of bad luck with many "Mr. Right Now"s, and I've got a "Mr. Right" who I am happily married to. Think about what type of relationship you want, and what qualities in a person you want for that type of relationship.

When you're looking for a serious relationship, keep in mind what you want, and what could possibly happen from it. My hubby looked hard for a chick that had the same goals, qualities and traits that help make up for his shortcomings, and of course the super romantic sparks where you just connect with someone :) He had considered marrying one woman a while before he met me, but he figured out she wasn't what he wanted as a wife or a mother for his kids for the rest of his life.

Now if you're looking for just a casual summer thing or whatever and know you're not gonna continue it afterwards, then pick someone fun and interesting, who knows it's gonna be over inadvance or knows and accepts the casualness of the dating.

That's just my two cents. But yeah, making sure you know what you want, and also helping the other person know where you stand helps a lot, at least in my experience.

Syka
2007-06-30, 08:00 PM
Yes, letting the other person know where you stand and knowing where they stand are a BIG thing. Trust me, it eliminates some of the stress.

magicwalker
2007-06-30, 11:08 PM
Swedish Chef- "That guy"... you mean, that you're the guy that people really open up to.. so you kind of know how they work, what they like, how the feel about things.. I wouldn't exactly consider that a bad position for a guy looking to find someone to be with. I mean, if you assert yourself and show some confidence, then you should be fine.

magicwalker
2007-06-30, 11:13 PM
Vampiric- It sounds like she's kind of already made up her mind. While you might not want to move on, she's expressing some interest.. and while I might agree that you shouldn't conform to some social expectation to experiment and chase after every member of the opposite sex.. I don't think you should hold onto the anchor that is just bringing you under. You can hold on for as long as you like, but there's a point where you really should just let go..

My advice: Fight for her, but within reason. No point in going down with the ship- so to speak.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-07-01, 02:01 AM
magicwalker,why the double post?

Syka
2007-07-01, 02:31 AM
*walks on stage* I would just like to take this moment to voice my displeasure of going to a school 3 hours away from one's potential and actual romantic interests.

Thank you. *walks off*

No need for advice. I just need to complain. I never have a problem leaving on the weekends, but when I come home for a week or more, it seems to get harder every time. :smallfrown: Honestly, it's getting to the point where I'd prefer the status of my other long distance relationship where we only saw each other every six months. At least then, the good byes were spaced further apart. (Though, admittedly, being able to just drive home and see him is nice)

Cheers,
Syka

Swedish chef
2007-07-01, 03:33 AM
Magicwalker: Yeah you might think it is a perfect position to be in. Problem is that when they open up (not rarely about things like "oh my boyfriend is such an @$$ he dumped me but I met this new guy who is called girlpuncher and he seems nice *sob sigh*"). When they open up you are already put firmly in the "friend bin" and have no chance of getting up. You are just the guy who is expected to hug them and say that everything is going to be alright, and all hopes for snuggling and snogging is loooooong gone. Maybe its true what they say in the song: Nice guys finish last, or even more cynical: Nice guys never get to kiss the gorgeous girls (freely translated from swedish). Yeah im bitter right now!

/Chef

Pyrian
2007-07-01, 04:00 AM
When they open up you are already put firmly in the "friend bin" and have no chance of getting up.It doesn't work like that. It really doesn't. Lots of guys want to believe that falsehood because it spares them the truth. Lots of women talk like that because it spares the guys the truth. Nobody wants to tell a friend that being a great supportive friend just isn't enough to make you bed-able. ...But it doesn't. For some people, there isn't even any overlap.

There's no magic thing that happens when you become a friend that makes you ineligible to be dated later. (Lord knows it's happened to me and people I know often enough.) However, there is a nugget you can learn from it: if you're good friends and you're not even being considered as a possible partner, it is almost always entirely because there is something else (at least one factor and probably several) that the other person finds you un-date-able for. Odds are good they'll never tell you, too.

But, y'know, acquire an awesome physique, dancing skills, really good social skills, and a bucketload of money, and suddenly things might change. ;)

EDIT: Syka, I do hope he's at least willing to meet you half way or alternate trips or some such?

Vampiric
2007-07-01, 08:09 AM
Thanks guys. I know it's final. She said she'll 'never say never'. I know that it's trying to let me down slow, but it raises my hopes, but I do know that it's final now. My problem is that I have a feeling that a) we'll slowly break apart, and, although I have never really known her as anything other than my girlfriend, I want to stay friends. b) I have this thing where I can, if I want, turn off my emotions, or just get over something. I don't really want to do it in this situation, because I don't want to hurt her, especially if I seem to get over her too soon. And I guess I shouldn't worry about that, but I still care for her, even if I'm not 'going out' with her.

I can 'make' myself get over it, (this is difficult to put in words, so bear with me...) and I know that I have to. I'm not going to hang on, but I just don't want to feel, or want her to feel, that after possibly the greatest two years of my life, I can drop it, just like that, and move on. I guess that that is my real dilemma... If there's anything to be said on that, I guess that's what I need to hear about.

Alarra
2007-07-01, 09:10 AM
EDIT: Syka, I do hope he's at least willing to meet you half way or alternate trips or some such?

That always bothered me about the long distance relationships that I was in. I was always the one driving an hour, or 4, or 12...to see them and they never returned the courtesy. Admittedly, one of them didn't have a car, so I don't really blame them, but the other one did, darn it.

magicwalker
2007-07-01, 01:52 PM
magicwalker,why the double post?

dallas-dakota: Easier for people to find what they are search for when the scope of the answer is presented at the top of the post. Just trying to make it easier for them.

Back to your scheduled Relationship Woes and Advice!

Syka
2007-07-01, 05:53 PM
Vampiric, *hug*. Break ups suck. I shocked people how quick I appeared to get over mine. Truth- it ended up taking me around 4-6 months to really purge my brain to the point where I can truly move on. I'm just really, really good at compartimentalzing. And it helps to have friends who were incredibly supportive, being busy in school/work, and going out with friends. :)

Don't worry about seeming to get over it too quickly. If she has a plan to date others, then she obviously isn't worried about it.

As for the alternating visits. With my ex, we did that. We kind of had to cause flights are expensive and neither of us are rich. With this guy, he comes up a few times, but I go home a lot more (also to see my family and other friends). It's a ratio of about 2:1 or so. He works Saturdays, and the only time he would be able to visit are Thur-Sun, so he also has to work around that, getting time off etc.

He is planning to come up in two weeks so yays!

Cheers,
Syka

Vampiric
2007-07-02, 08:54 AM
Woo, I got a hug! *hugs back*

Thanks Syka. Though, tbh, I don't think she's going to start dating anyone else. The reason she was breaking up with me was because she didn't feel like she could get fully emotionally involved in a relationship. She isn't up to a relationship, and I think she was telling the truth. (I can judge when most people are telling the truth, and how they feel, if not with anyone else, then with her.)

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-03, 02:53 AM
Dagnabbit! Didn't I tell you all to put your Woe-ing and Advice-ing on hold for the weekend? No respect, I tell you- What? I didn't? Er, carry on then.

*Reads what must be six pages of new posts since Thursday*

Okay. Everyone seems to be covered. Nothing new to contribute. Good thing you guys are great people.

Syka - that seems like a reasonable exchange given his schedule and your desires to visit your homies. He seems to be making an effort to not make you do all the work.

Alarra - What's your thought on motorcycles? Have bike, will travel. :smallsmile: *makes note to shop for another helmet in case Alarra really is interested in going for motorcycle rides*

Alarra
2007-07-03, 12:08 PM
Alarra - What's your thought on motorcycles? Have bike, will travel. :smallsmile: *makes note to shop for another helmet in case Alarra really is interested in going for motorcycle rides*

Umm....it's been years since the one time I've been on a motorcycle. I'd have to say...14 years maybe. I don't believe I am opposed to the idea of motorcycles though. :smallsmile:

Albonor
2007-07-03, 12:14 PM
Well, I guess it's my turn.

I'm in a special situation: I used to have feelings for a girl I know in college, but I never made a move because I never saw any sign that she may be interested in me. I believed I had no shot at her and thus did nothing. Then she got a boyfriend, a guy 8 years older that her and me, with a cute little girl, etc. They moved in together this week, and she's already talking about when she wants her first baby. It did hurt, but I got over the " strong feelings" part a few months ago.

Now comes the special situation: I lived alone in a appartment for nearly a year when one of my good female friend tells me two weeks ago that she dumped her boyfriend after a relationship of 4 years. They lived together and now have to split things up. Plus, she eventualy has to find a place to go. After talking to her for a while about how she sees "being at home", I offered her to move in with me (I have an extra room). Now, you're all thinking: he wants in her pants. No: despite the fact that my friend is a gorgeous, smart and funny girl, I would like to date her friend. Aaaaaaaand not be a rebound....

That friend is also a pretty, interesting and inspiring woman, who has been cheated on twice, which caused her some trust issues. That would be fine (everyone but the devious ends up trusting me) but I will mainly see her at home, when she visits her friend (I've been "warned" it would be often, poor me:smallamused: ). So I ask you all: how shoud I try to approach this without putting the appartement in an uneasy situation (my friend won't like it if her friend don't want to visit because I'm there!).

Additionnal info: -I'm 24, they're both 23
- I just started Grad school in History, they are in the middle of college in business administration.
- I am really bad at starting relationship: flirting is not natural to me!
- I would be classified a geek but I'm pretty social.
- Pretty much average looking I guess. I've been told I have cute eyes.
- Ask if you want to know anything else on this situation!

Syka
2007-07-03, 12:28 PM
Girl A- the one who just got a boyfriend that you are over
Girl B- The one who is moving in
Girl C- The one who is friends with the one who is moving in.

Girl B is not of romantic interest to you, but Girl C is, yes? I would just act like you do around Girl B. Once you get to know Girl C a little better, ask her to something casual. Preferably do it in a neutral area other than your apartment.

I don't really know what to say if it turns into an awkward situation. The only foolproof way to avoid that would be to just not bring anything up and continue acting normal around both of them. You could always ask Girl B about what Girl C thinks of you, but I would not recommend that. It tends to put the middle-man in a not fun position (I've been there).

Alarra
2007-07-03, 12:34 PM
If you're worried about it becoming awkward, I would recommend waiting until you've some sort of indication from her that she may be receptive to the idea before you try anything overly blatant. Or you could try flirting in an over the top, joking manner maybe, then if she is receptive, you can say you were somewhat serious, and if she isn't...why...wasn't it obvious you were joking? That seems to work relatively well at times.

Albonor
2007-07-03, 01:14 PM
Hum....it IS good advice. I'll think about it. By the way,thanks Syka about the Girls A, B and C. Should have done that myself...

zeratul
2007-07-03, 01:37 PM
This isn't a woe, or a request for advice really, just an update. Well I was hanging out with the girl, and one of my sisters (they've been friends for a year or two), and everything was fine. I'm hanging out with her this weekend, in which some have called a date, I personally am not sure if it is, but thats the situation.

sktarq
2007-07-03, 06:24 PM
Yeah you might think it is a perfect position to be in. Problem is that when they open up (not rarely about things like "oh my boyfriend is such an @$$ he dumped me but I met this new guy who is called girlpuncher and he seems nice *sob sigh*"). When they open up you are already put firmly in the "friend bin" and have no chance of getting up. .../Chef

I seem to spend my life in this spot. Mostly because I don't get intrested in a girl until I know them pretty well. Easiest way, I found, to change things. Go on a couple dates with girls you totally don't feel ready to do so yet...Doesn't really matter if it is the village slut. It has tons of advantages. One: Practice for when you actually care about the outcome. Two: You friends will now help you learn how to date well-in most cases I know they will be happy to help Three: Confidence builder Four:you may just stumble over something great. Five: It keeps you out of the "just friends" bin allot. People will think of you as an active or semi active dater. May not change how your current friends look at you but how new friendships develop.

One disclaimer: Make sure those who you do date understand that you are only dating casually and seeing if anything more serious pops up from that.

Swedish chef
2007-07-04, 02:41 AM
Thanks that is good advice.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-04, 04:30 AM
Well, erm, I'm warning ye now this is going to be long, but I really would like some advice from an outside/ impartial position.

I had a boyfriend whom I liked and cared about. He was there for me at a really rough time (or at least claimed to be). I realized about 3 weeks into the relationship (we'd been friends for almost a year previously) that all he ever did was complain about what I was doing wrong. Now keep in mind when we started this relationship it wasn't the best time in my life, and even when he asked me out I told him I wouldn't be a very good girlfriend, I just couldn't handle it emotionally.
He breaks up with me and leaves. I say screw it, it was probably for the best. A few months later he shows back up and apologies for what an ******* he's been and asks for my forgiveness. I said sure. Now at this point he's pissed me and a few of my friends off, but we accept him back and all is forgiven.
At this same point another person who's a friend of a friend (I'll call her J), breaks up with her boyfriend a few states away and moves back home. As she is a friend of a friend, we welcome her into the group and do our best to make her feel comfortable.
At this point my ex tries to make out with me, and I say no, I'm not looking for a relationship. Him and J instead hit it off and start going out. I admit Im a bit jealous at this point, but I think it's for the best.
Then they start having problems. Every time they get in a fight, I get calls from both of them and split my time between smoothing things out between them. After about a month of this (breaking up every 3 days, her crying about how horrible he is and what a liar and blah blah blah...), I realize neither of them care about me anymore and I leave them to their own devices. J bitches and cries and tells me that I'm abandoning her. My ex says nothing. My friend get pissed off at J because after coming up to us (crying) that she wanted to break it off with him (for the last time). They help her get her things out of his apartment and then, magically, 2 days later thier back together. After the 3rd time of the cry-fest-go-get stuff, everyone else says screw it and stops talking to her. This all gets blamed on me.
Now there's a ton of drama that I haven't mentioned, but that's basically it. Me and another ex of mine get back together. He's a casual friend of J's, and they talk on the net sometimes. I don't mind, after all me being mad doesn't mean he should be mad, right?
Well, I get a job in the mall, and suprise suprise me ex (j's now-boyfriend) works across from me. Now at this point we've (my friends and I) found out some not flattering things about this person. Like he's lied about where he's from, stolen things from us, ect, and I go over there to say something.
I puss out and we end up talking (it's been a year since I've stopped talking to him and J at this point). I say if you want to patch things up thats fine, if not we can just ignore each other until I move (which I was planning on doing in a month).
I get a call from my BF saying that J was saying some unflattering things about me, trying to break the two of us up. I become enraged and e-mail J basically telling her every nasty thing I can think of and she responds with "I was only worried about my friend!". I tell her and her boyfriend (come to find out they were broken up at the time I talked to him and then they got back together again) to leave me the hell alone. I didn't mess with them, why are they messing with me?

Now, there' a bunch more to it, but basically J's very presence makes me want to punch babies, and she's still talking to my bf over the net. Should I ignore this? Tell her to screw off? I just don't know.

Avenging Viper
2007-07-04, 04:46 AM
Sheesh.

You've said how bad this guy is for you, so don't patch things up with him, just let it go. Flogging dead horses doesn't do anyone any good. And the girl is probably just whining for attention. No one is obligated to help her out of the hole she's dug herself into with this guy, and she seems to need an objective lesson in how to be a grown up.

I would just ignore both of them. Everyone needs less drama in their life. Don't e-mail them. Hang up if they call. Don't talk to them at all and avoid being in the same area they are. If it's unavoidable, don't acknowledge them. Don't let either of them get a rise out of you. Eventually, they'll probably get bored and go away and getting confrontational will only provoke more drama. With any luck, they'll stay together and feed off of the combined misery like two black holes orbitting each other in space.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-04, 04:58 AM
Heh thank you for the advice...and the black hole imagery makes me giggle.

I would be more than happy to ignore the crap out of them, but my only problem is J talks to my bf on occasion through trillian. I was just wondering if it would be wrong of me to suggest they stop talking (they're not very good friends, and they only talk once every few weeks). It just kinda worried because she messaged him saying she wanted to talk to him, but I just don't know.
I know my BF cares about me (we've known each other for 5 years and were previously engaged before we realized we were too young for that sort of thing and got back together a few years later)....but it makes me really uncomfortable her talking to him. I guess I could just ignore it....
I'm sorry, I don't mean to whine. Just everyone else I talk to has been part of the situation, so they're a bit biased. That and I know there's some guys on here as well (not to discount any female advice). Was just wondering if I was bein' paranoid.
Thanks for listening to my drama!This has to be the most laid-back and friendly forum I've ever been a part of:smallredface:

Serpentine
2007-07-04, 06:06 AM
Have you tried talking to your boyfriend about it? I'd suggest that you voice your concerns to him. He won't neccessarily agree off the bat to refuse to talk to her at all - and I'm not completely sure he should have to - but at least he'll know how you feel about it and can keep it in mind when he does speak to her.

Flakey
2007-07-04, 06:34 AM
I get a call from my BF saying that J was saying some unflattering things about me, trying to break the two of us up.

Tell your boyfriend that because of the lies, and soap opera lives of those two giving you so much trouble and strife, that you do not want to hear what shes saying to him.

From what you say above, he knows what shes like. Atleast enough to know that she just wants to hurt you, take your boyfriend type thing.
So tell him you would prefer him not to talk to her, and if he does so, not talk about it to you.

Syka
2007-07-04, 10:01 AM
Yah, I second the talking to him. If you just tell him that these two have caused enough problems, and you would really rather not be associated with them at all, he should be understanding. Especially if he knows the circumstances and all.

You don't sound like your whining. This is the place to come get impartial advice. I've noticed it can work wonders. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Vonriel
2007-07-04, 10:58 AM
To paraphrase someone from earlier, guys can be quite dense. He may realize that she's just doing this to get to you, but I'd put the chances about equal that he may not. Unless you talk it over with him, you'll never know. After that, do your best to stay away from them. The opinion I'm getting from "J" is much the same as everyone else seems to get, and it sounds like you'd be better off without these people in your lives. Some ways you can go about it are to get caller ID if you have to, and learn to just not pick up when they call. Block them from IM programs, set their e-mails to automatically go into your spam folder if you have one. The wonderful thing about the time we live in is that you can completely cut someone out of your life if you want to, so take advantage of this.

Anyway, my $0.02.

Vampiric
2007-07-04, 12:13 PM
I would agree with most of the above, but I wouldn't outright ignore them both. If they start whining or complaining, then tell them you don't want to hear any more about it. But it could be that they just talk to you about nothing (as unlikely as that may be.) I'd give them , not a second chance, but the start of a conversation, and as soon as you find it heading in a direction you don't want, change it, or stop. Of course, if they both really get on your nerves, and you can't stand them, then ignore them, as above.

Pyrian
2007-07-04, 01:53 PM
Now, there' a bunch more to it, but basically J's very presence makes me want to punch babies, and she's still talking to my bf over the net. Should I ignore this?You should count your blessings. Two very messed up people have found each other - which is always great news for the rest of us. :smallcool: They do so much less damage this way...

You should do your best to excise them from your life; just don't pay any attention to them at all. I doubt that, after knowing you for five years, your boyfriend trusts what your ex-boyfriend's girlfriend tells him more than he trusts you, so you should return the favor and trust that he won't let them poison him against you; but if he doesn't know that's what's going on, you should tell him everything you told us (and probably more).

Hell Puppi
2007-07-04, 03:48 PM
Thank you guys very much! I should've had the sense to realize some of the advice myself, but my good judgment gets clouded sometimes.
I was just kind of afraid to talk to him because I didn't want to sound like the jealous girlfriend, but it defiantly makes more sense than me being angry about it in the future.
Thank you guys again, you're all awesome! ^^

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-05, 12:44 PM
Three weeks ago i was at my friend daneil's house(for a sleep-over). Well i dont know how it happend~but we ''spooned''(nothing exiting happend). after tat we were i kid of an akward stage and drifted apart. And now i ask~ How can i get my old buddy back by my side again?:smallfrown:

Ranis
2007-07-05, 01:07 PM
What is "spooning?"

Syka
2007-07-05, 01:10 PM
One person lays behind the other and basically hugs them. Generally the male behind the female.

I'm not sure. If you guys are just friends and plan to stay just friends, I'm not sure I can help you. It generally is an awkward thing and if since you are still relatively young, she might be weirded out some. If there is interest in more from both parties, then try asking her out.

For saving the friendship...I dunno. This is a situation I'm unfamiliar with.

Cheers,
Syka

Ranis
2007-07-05, 01:14 PM
Have you tried talking to her about it?

magicwalker
2007-07-05, 01:39 PM
Mr.Pixie- You're really going to have to elaborate on the entire situation if you want to get any constructive feedback, besides the ever present.. "Talk to her about it..."

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-05, 02:41 PM
Have you tried talking to her about it?

Well no actualy:smallfrown: ~do you think I should?

Serpentine
2007-07-06, 06:03 AM
Sneh. I've gotten friendly with various male friends. I dunno, I might be more easygoing/less threatening than your female friend, or maybe you're just different sorts of people (quite likely :smalltongue:) but we always mostly just went on as usual... Tell me, did the spooning mean anything more than "cuddles are nice"?

Warshrike
2007-07-06, 07:01 AM
I am... Obsessive. I don't want to be, but I can't help it. What's this got to do with it?? Well... Warshrikes Entire Love Life Written in One Forum Post:

I'm 16, in highschool. I've always hung out with people the year below me, apart from this year since I've been a 'senior', and my hangout consisted of me and three good male friends, along with some other guys and girls. That was back in year 8 for me, 7 for them. Now, at the end of year 8, at the pool one day, two of the guys from my hangout is there. One of whom is with his little sister, who's going into year seven that year(Making me 2 years older than her). Anyway, at this point, I think she's allright, as a friend, when I've just met her.

But, by about halfway through the year(Cutting a lot out here), I realise I've started liking her a lot more than I used to. I tell her these feelings, and things get all weirded up, and stay that way for the rest of the year, byt which point I like another girl. Anyway, it doesn't work out between me and the other girl and, once again, I find myself thinking about the first one, my friends little sister, again. By this point, I'm acting weird around the guy, I mean, I like his sister, y'know?? So anyway, on a Karate trip down to Melbourne, I asked her out. her answer was no, things get a bit weirded up again, but return to normal pretty much straight after. Once more, I think perhaps the times right, so about two months after ask the girl out again, to which I get a no.

I'm sad, of course, but then(This is about halfway through my 2nd year of knowing her) Another girl asks me out. I said yeah, figuring that me and milady had nothing going for us. Anyway, me and my girlfriend have an on/off relationship. Halfway through it I find out a rather big secret about milady, which I can't talk about, but which makes me like her even more. Towards the end of my year, my school formal comes up. My ingenious school is only allowing people from our year to go, and my gf is younger than me. So, I asked another girl to go with me to the forum, as a friend, but my gf takes it the wrong way. I finally break it off with her, as I'm not wanting to get dumped for the 7th time. Anyway, a week later, just after my formal, I call my ex seeing if she wanted to get back together, I'm sorry, yadda yadda yadda. By this point, she already had a new bf. To say the least, I was a little hurt she'd gotten over me so quickly. I kinda got depressed and, of course, milady(Yeah, I figure it's easier to call her that from now) was there to console me. We got close again and, over the christmas holidays, I ask her out over MSN. She says yes.

We plan to meet the next day, down town. It's been about 2 weeks since I saw her, as school holidays and Karate was over for the year. I go there, half an hour earlier to make sure. I wait for an hour and she doesn't show. I head back home sad and dissapointed, and send her a long, Long email expressing how I was feeling, wanting to know why she stood me up, and finally saying that if she didn't want to go out with me, it was cool, I could handle it.

Her reply was short and to the point, she didn't want to go out with me. Then school's back on at last, and everythings really different. I'm forced to hangout with my year, and am only really good friends with one of the guys in my old hangout, as I don't act normally around miladies brother and another had changed himself signifigently. So anyway, I usually these days spent most of my lunchtimes in the library where, to my joy, milady often came to see me. I also went up to my old hangout a lot, 'just visiting'. Anyway, one day we're playing a game and mucking around up at the hangout, and one of the guys throws her to the ground. I kinda get... Angry, to say the least, and knowing what happened to her, and skitz at him. Anyway, from that point I realised I didn't just like her, but I thought I was in love with this girl.

So she starts coming up to see me more often, and even brings her friends these days. It's sorta like an unofficial hangout. I find I'm happier when she's around, and more and more often wanting to tell her how much I like her. So one day, I do. I tell her just what I'm feeling, that I think I love her, and would like to go out with her. 'no' is the answer once more. I'm hurt, but I still like her, and she still comes up to see me. Anyway, from that point I was more liberal about telling her how I felt. I had 'I love you' tourettes or something. One day, she asks me to prove it. She gives me a day. Now I could have bought her flowers or something, or written her a poem. Instead, I spend the day asking what other people would do to really prove they loved someone, and writing all the answers down in a book.

Anyway, the next day she comes up to see me, and I give her the book. After she reads through it, I give her another peice of paper, which is blank. I tell her that's how I prove my love to her, because anything I could say would have been said before, any item I could give her would easily be bought, and anything I could write couldn't express just how I felt.

Now a week after that, she has a boyfriend. I meet the guy on the net, and apart from some intense jealousy, I'm fine with him. But we get to talking, and I find the guy's an ***. But damn, a real one. After he says some rather unflattering and untrue things about milady, I sorta lose it. Me and some friends, including milady and this guy, are going to the movies on there. Me and him agree we're going to fight, due to 'disagreements'. A while later, he emails me saying he's sorry, and it's because he couldn't compete with a 'guy like me'. The morning before the movies, he dumps her, and doesn't show up.

So then things go back to normal, and she still comes up to see me. Then, she has another boyfriend. This time, one of my mates in my year who I'd recently told how I feel about it. I feel a little peeved, the dud knew how I felt about her and he's going out with her?? Anyway, I voice my opinions about him a little too loud. Somewhere in here, she tells her dad about pretty much everything, and he doesn't want her talking to me any more, but she still does. Anyway, I finally accept the fact she has a new bf, and that the dude betrayed me a little. So I'm talking to him, and I ask him the question of "Why did you do it"(Meaning go out with her when he knew how I felt) To which he tells me that he doesn't think they were going out. He never agreed to it and just hasn't told her that. I give him a week to tell her, not wanting her to get lied to any longer.

So after a week, they 'break up' and she starts coming to see me again. She's closer this time, closer than we'd ever been really, and I can't say I'm complaining, but then she tells me about her dad. Anyway, a few weeks later, she asks me to ring her. I do. We talk for three hours. She tells me how she likes me. I get excited, until I realise something:

Her father does not want her talking to me. Now, a lot of the guys I know wouldn't care about this, and a lotta the girls would ignore their dads but, in miladies own words, he father opinion means more to her than anyone elses. So, later on, I ask her if she'd talk to him, maybe get him to change his mind. as with many of the things I ask her, the answer is 'no'. And to my shame, I go off at her, after being screwed around for a couple of years, I felt like she'd nailed my coffin shut. But I felt instant remorse, and asked for forgiveness. Things had been a little weird since then(About 2-3 months ago) But are returning to normal, except she now comes to my hangout a LOT. I do not know what to do.

I still like her, and it's looking as though she still likes me at least a little, she's even willing to talk to me when her dad's around, but I don't know how to act. I'm really awkward around her now. So to end... HELP?!?!?!

Edit: And to anyone in the 'What is your type' thread, yes, this is the girl I was reffering to.

Perducci
2007-07-06, 07:22 AM
Relax. Stop worrying about it. Just go along with life and see what happens. If nothing develops, don't sweat it. You can't force things like this no matter how hard you try. Stop freaking out around her though. From experience, girls don't like guys who feel awkward around them. Be confident within yourself.

Also, props on that thing with the blank page. Smooth.

The Prince of Cats
2007-07-06, 07:36 AM
Okay, no sugar-coating... I know the persona I play to here, but this time I am just another man giving you the advice he thinks you need.


I am... Obsessive. I don't want to be, but I can't help it.
You may not be able to help what you feel but you can choose how you act on those feelings. This is at the root of your problem. You have to understand that love is a form of OCD (according to certain studies) and that stage usually goes away fairly soon. If it doesn't, as in your case, you start to look like a stalker. Even if you are not, that kind of obsession is extremely unhealthy when not reciprocated. It makes men and women do things they know are wrong, because it helps them justify them.

I speak as a victim here. I watched someone try to throw their life into any scheme which might make me like them more. She was willing to chase me across the Atlantic ocean, willing to have cosmetic surgery on the strength of an off-hand remark, and there was worse... The point is that she could justify it all. I was her friend, I was kind to her and everything she thought she ever wanted. All I needed was that little extra encouragement or that little proof that she truly loved me and I would love her in return.

I know you will hate the comparison, but she started out just as you did. If you cannot get her off your mind, your actions may escalate out of control. My opinion is that you should seek counselling. Not because you are mad, simply because they might be able to help you come to terms with what you feel and ensure that what might happen never does.


So she starts coming up to see me more often, and even brings her friends these days. It's sorta like an unofficial hangout. I find I'm happier when she's around, and more and more often wanting to tell her how much I like her. So one day, I do. I tell her just what I'm feeling, that I think I love her, and would like to go out with her. 'no' is the answer once more.
I did this too. I never meant to encourage her, I just wanted to be supportive. I knew she was a little 'off' about a few things, but I still thought of her as a friend. I know that I should have walked away, but it took a few too many scares to make me run for cover.

She is trying to help you, but you are reading romance in her attempts at friendship. Even asking you to prove you loved her was probably her way of getting you to realise that you do not truly love her. It didn't work when I tried it either; she did love me, in her own scary way.


Her father does not want her talking to me.
I refer you to your own words; "I am... Obsessive. I don't want to be, but I can't help it." is what you said. Do you have a sister? A close female friend other than this 'milady'? Would you want her seeing a bloke who admits to being obsessive but says he "can't help it"?

Warshrike
2007-07-06, 07:45 AM
Ah. I left a bit out towards the end, which may clear up a couple of your points. After she wouldn't speak to her father, and I apologised for snapping at her, I told her that, simply, if she would still talk to me after he wanted her to stop, I wouldn't talk to her. I essentiall cold turkeyed the friendship for a month, and it's only been recently I can even talk to her. I'd still rather it be that way but, plainly put, she doesn't seem to see that yes, I love her, but I want to respect her fathers wishes, even if she doesn't. All of my friends have been telling me she's no good, that she's using me, etc, but I guess I'm just blind to it.

As for your last point... Obsessive might have been to strong a word, I mean yes I like the girl, but I wouldn't sit in a tree to see her through a window, cut myself cause she doesn't like me, or follow her around for no reason. Stalking just isn't my style.

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-06, 08:19 AM
I just talked to her, it was a long disscusion but we decided to stay friends:smallbiggrin: .And now were geting together on sunday to go see ''at worlds end'' at the movies along with two other friends of hers, so this whole thing worked ot beter than expected!:smallbiggrin:

New avitar Syka?

Piccamo
2007-07-06, 08:39 AM
I just talked to her, it was a long disscusion but we decided to stay friends:smallbiggrin: .And now were geting together on sunday to go see ''at worlds end'' at the movies along with two other friends of hers, so this whole thing worked ot beter than expected!:smallbiggrin:

New avitar Syka?

*scrubbed*

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-06, 09:19 AM
*response to scrubbed*

Piccamo
2007-07-06, 09:41 AM
What? Chicks really dig that kind of thing.

*scrubbed*

zeratul
2007-07-06, 09:49 AM
Update : Well date thing tomorrow. My sister's been giving me advice, I really have no idea how well this is gonna go. I've kept my composure well however, despite going incredibally tense yesterday. I accidentally elbowed the chain on my punching bag so hard it drew blood.

By the way, Should I ask if she wants to go on another date at the end of the first one, or later?

Syka
2007-07-06, 10:19 AM
Hm...Honestly, I would learn to take "No" for an answer. You've asked her out how many times, and suddenly once her father doesn't want her talking to you she likes you? That sounds really fishy to me. The fact that she dated your friend knowing you liked her is a crappy thing to do as well, and your friend isn't really a friend.

You may be obsessive, but this is one thing I think you need to drop.

But that's just me.

Cheers,
Syka

PS- Yes, for the Christmas thing. :) Grinch-fox.

Pyrian
2007-07-06, 11:30 AM
Obsessive might have been to strong a word, I mean yes I like the girl, but I wouldn't sit in a tree to see her through a window, cut myself cause she doesn't like me, or follow her around for no reason.Maybe so, but you haven't been willing to take "no" for an answer and you need to. How many times has it been? I counted 3 direct turn-downs and one stood-up. There's nothing complicated here - she doesn't want to have a relationship with you. Accept it and move on.


By the way, Should I ask if she wants to go on another date at the end of the first one, or later?My understanding is that calling the next day is traditional.

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-06, 12:07 PM
What? Chicks really dig that kind of thing.

*response to scrubbed*

mudbunny
2007-07-06, 12:33 PM
<snip>

I still like her, and it's looking as though she still likes me at least a little, she's even willing to talk to me when her dad's around, but I don't know how to act. I'm really awkward around her now. So to end... HELP?!?!?!

You have to realize that this girl does not want to be in a relationship with you beyond basic friendship. Accept that this is all you will get from her and move on!!.

Koga
2007-07-06, 12:58 PM
It appears most girls just don't know what the hell they want.

About 3/4ths of the ones The Koga meets are paranoid psychopaths who think The Koga's going to pull an American Psycho on them and shoot them in a nailgaun while they read one of his many political books.

The other 1/4th are just closet-promiscues and happend to catch The Koga at the time they were in the mood to spread thier legs. Nothing feels better then rejecting these vermin.


Sometimes The Koga wishes he were homosexual, maybe then the dating scene wouldn't be so aggarvating. Guys are less complex, which is a nicer way of saying they're not completely out of thier minds.

Perducci
2007-07-06, 01:16 PM
I think it would be best in this situation to just stay friends if you can. It looks borderline stalkerish to me. Moving on isn't always easy, but it's not impossible.

A lot of my friends are girls, and at times I've found myself talking to them about someone who likes them, but they want nothing to do with like that. They usually just want to stay friends.

I don't think guys are any more simple than girls. I don't understand half the crap some of my male friends do. People in general are confusing and don't really know what they want. Just roll with it all and see how it turns out.

Piccamo
2007-07-06, 01:35 PM
*response to scrubbed*

*scrubbed*

Logic
2007-07-06, 02:14 PM
*scrubbed*

If you are going to have a reference, you might want to pick one that is either not tasteless, or one that is more likely to be noticed. That one was neither.

magicwalker
2007-07-06, 02:47 PM
*scrubbed*

I think it has less to do with his sense of humor and more about the whole you poking fun at him.

Piccamo
2007-07-06, 03:09 PM
If you are going to have a reference, you might want to pick one that is either not tasteless, or one that is more likely to be noticed. That one was neither.
Yes, because all humor that is not all serious, intellectual humor is bad :smallyuk:


I think it has less to do with his sense of humor and more about the whole you poking fun at him.
It was a general statement, not directed at him necessarily. If he took it as an insult he needs to not be so self-involved.

magicwalker
2007-07-06, 03:17 PM
It was a general statement, not directed at him necessarily. If he took it as an insult he needs to not be so self-involved.

Yeah, I can DEFINITELY see how directly quoting him and then making a statement could somehow be misconstrued as a general statement not necessarily directed at him...


Anyways, how about some Woes and Advice?

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-06, 03:28 PM
*response to scrubbed*

Piccamo
2007-07-06, 03:35 PM
Lighten up. Its a joke. I don't see how its the "rudest thing ever." I can understand if you don't think its funny, but to get this worked up about it is a little extreme.

MR.PIXIE
2007-07-06, 03:40 PM
Lighten up. Its a joke.

*response to scrubbed*

Logic
2007-07-06, 04:07 PM
Yes, because all humor that is not all serious, intellectual humor is bad :smallyuk:

I am not sure I understand your meaning here. Would you care to clarify?

sktarq
2007-07-06, 04:18 PM
How about we just let this subject die a natural death and get back to business at hand.

Alarra
2007-07-11, 10:34 PM
Mod Goddess: Okay...I'm bringing this thread back. Stay away from sexually explicit discussions and imagery and play nice and it won't have to go away again.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-11, 11:12 PM
Happiness for the return! :smallcool:

Sadness for the need for scrubbing bubbles. :smallfrown:

Play nice, folks, please? :smallredface:

Thank you, Alarra, for taking on the task of the scrubbing.

The Great Skenardo
2007-07-11, 11:13 PM
Here's a question for you; how do you (by phone) comfort someone whose pet rabbit has died?

Serpentine
2007-07-11, 11:14 PM
Um... make sympathetic noises and help them reminiss (how the hell do you spell that?!) about all the good times they had together?

The Great Skenardo
2007-07-11, 11:18 PM
Reminisce, I believe.

Hm. I guess. Sounds...artificial, though.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-11, 11:18 PM
Um... make sympathetic noises and help them reminiss (how the hell do you spell that?!) about all the good times they had together?reminisce

I'd say just be an ear for whatever they want to say and occasionally give a sincere, understanding response. By phone makes it tougher, for sure.

phoenixineohp
2007-07-11, 11:24 PM
Here's a question for you; how do you (by phone) comfort someone whose pet rabbit has died?


Try and get their mind off it and onto other good things?

Midnight Son
2007-07-11, 11:26 PM
Um... make sympathetic noises and help them reminiss (how the hell do you spell that?!) about all the good times they had together?And make sure they can't hear you firing up the grill.:smallcool:

Ranis
2007-07-12, 12:05 AM
Buy them a new rabbit!

Albonor
2007-07-12, 09:46 AM
Do NOT make any "Of Mice and Men" references about rabbits...

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-12, 09:53 AM
You could tell them the story of Hazel-ra and how he saved his clan and then ascended to be a rabbit god.

Madmal
2007-07-12, 10:13 AM
don't put me on the phone.

(yes, something like that has happened to me; also, rabbits are delicious...:smalltongue: )

Syka
2007-07-12, 11:46 AM
Ok, I'm really very happy that this is brought back. :smallbiggrin: Yay! I'm going to be putting some base rules up on the first page. One of which will be...if you have a question of sexual nature, PM one of us.

Am I right assuming that none of the regular posters mind being PM'ed?

Cheers,
Syka

Serpentine
2007-07-12, 11:55 AM
Nope. Though I'm struggling to keep my inbox under 90%... people are welcome to use my email address, too. Don't forget to tell me your username, though.

zeratul
2007-07-12, 11:59 AM
PM away people.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-12, 12:30 PM
Please add me to those willing to receive a PM. I'll also accept an email, just include your username in the title, or at least mention GitP so that I don't trash it without reading it.

Alarra
2007-07-12, 01:23 PM
I'm fine to be pm'd or emailed also.

CurlyKitGirl
2007-07-12, 01:43 PM
I have a tiny problem. Recently I've been acting as a kind of emissary between no less than four couples either breaking up or reconciling their differences. Through no fault of my own I was asked to do this because
1. I'm fairly neutral about relationship advice etc.
2. I'm objective about it.
3. I'm in no relationship and have never been so they all think that I know best what to do

I've found out that one of these people (a boy, A) has been two-timing his girlfrind, B; with a girl C, who goes out with D (C's boyfriend) I now don't know whether to tell the respective couple this or to let the cheeaters tell their other half. I feel obligated to let B and D know, but then what would happen to all four, me and A and C in particular.

Advice please.

PhoeKun
2007-07-12, 01:48 PM
Encourage A and C to come forward on their own. Nothing good will come of this, but it will be much, much worse if B and D find out through circumstance or a third party (ie, you).

It's no fun being the moderator, is it?

edit: D'oh. Missed an important point. Are A and C really into each other, or is this really more a revenge/general infidelity thing? Whether or not they're interested in breaking ties with their former partners or salvaging those relationships will drastically change the tone of how exactly you should go about getting them to open up...

edit2: Syka is proof of why I never post here. She says things much better than I do...

Syka
2007-07-12, 01:56 PM
Tell A and C they need to come clean. Honestly, I'd not be friends with someone who is cheating on their significant other, and I have let friendships drift with people I found out were doing just that. If they can lie to someone they supposedly love and/or like romantically, what will stop them lying to you? Plus it is just despicable, in my books. I have no problem with open relationships, etc, it's the sentiment behind it- lying, etc.

Now, if you have proof somehow that they are cheating, and neither decides to come forward (do give them a chance to), let the respective significant others know. But only if you are willing to take a chance losing their friendships. Some people get a bit...crazy when it comes to love. Proof helps, but I'm not sure how you would/if you would even want to obtain it.

I'd rather try to help my friends, then know something like that. Plus, once they find out that they are cheating (which they probably will), chances are they'll apologize to you, if they got angry. :)

Cheers,
Syka

CurlyKitGirl
2007-07-12, 02:09 PM
I was thinking along those lines but B is on holiday now and won't be back 'till college starts (Sept) and I'd rather have this come out with all four of them, so should I tell A and C to stop, if it's not really genuine. Or should I tell B that this has happened over phone/similar.
I think it's genuine, but I'd still prefer all four together rather than to let B find out via the rumour mill. I will have a word with these two and ask them maybe to stop it until B comes back so all four can sort it out with me as LOVE MOD.
I guess if anyone needs help I can offer advice. Look what I've done. So far everythings going OK but I think D might suspect something.
I'd rather not tell D without B being present so should I break it to B not in person or wait. I think personally is better but the wait could just further harm our friendship and theirs too.

Syka
2007-07-12, 02:17 PM
I actually would say do NOT have them all together. That could degenerate rather quickly into a bad situation...Talk to the two who are cheating SEPERATELY first. Then give them a chance to come out to their respective significant other.

If they won't, talk to the significant others. D will probably be a bit more willing to accept it. As for B...is there anyway to visit them?

Cheers,
Syka

Flakey
2007-07-12, 02:48 PM
A Pm to me is fine too :)

CurlyKitGirl I agree with Skya, especially when you state that D may have suspicions already. It may blow up nastily before September. Talk to A and C about it and coming clean.

Alarra
2007-07-12, 03:11 PM
I feel like I can't give the best advice here, since I'm usually girl C.....but....honesty really is a good idea. And based on past experience, people always find out anyway, no matter how well and how long you manage to lie to them. Things go over much better if they've heard it from their significant other rather than another source. So, whatever you can do to talk them into coming clean themselves would be best.

magicwalker
2007-07-12, 05:49 PM
I'm going to agree with Syka.. I don't think an environment involving two couples, with two cheaters, will be very conducive to a constructive conversation. That's just asking for physical violence.

EDIT:

It also might end before the school year comes around.. summer fling sort of deal. Still a horrible situation, and I guess it does kind of hinge on how serious the relationship is with A and C... but I don't see any one walking away from this happy.

Vampiric
2007-07-13, 08:25 AM
I can be PM'd and I'll allow my email, just put your username and 'GitP - relationship woes' in the title.

Again, I'd go with the majority, and agree with syka. I don't think she missed anything. Also, I'd say that, personally, I prefer people to come forward and admit for themselves, rather than, as you say, hear from the rumour mill.

Syka
2007-07-13, 10:15 AM
I'd say regardless of whether or not they are 'serious' about the relationship with each other (the cheaters), both should still fess up. I gave my ex credit where credit was due- he let me know what he had done the next day. For that, I can't thank him enough. I'm the type that, if you cheat, I want to know. It'll hurt, yah, but I want to know.

So, regardless of if it is just a fling or they want something more, I think they both need to come clean.

Cheers,
Syka

Logic
2007-07-13, 12:03 PM
If anyone wants my opinion or advice, feel free to PM as well. Though at the moment, my responses are likely to be few and far between, as long as you see my avatar in uniform.

Dib
2007-07-13, 12:20 PM
Well if any of you have been reading the warcraft thread, you probably know what this'll be about... I just started a second character a few days ago, and another person started at the same time as me (with a male character), we got to talking and formed a party... They then tell me that in RL they're actually a girl...

I'm not sure how to explain the next bit, but I feel attracted to them even though I'm not sure if they are a girl and don't know anything about them... She seems really nice, kind of a content, nieve, adolescent personality... We always make a party (just the two of us)... and try and stiuck together and help each other out as much as possible (admittedly that's all part of the game)...

And she apologizes for shouting and seems really worried she's offended me and stuff... even when she doesn't shout (much)... and earlier she blew me a kiss, so now I'm confused... help! :smalleek:

Syka
2007-07-13, 12:23 PM
I'll let others handle this one...

I'm not experienced in budding internet stuff. >>'

Cheers,
Syka


Encourage A and C to come forward on their own. Nothing good will come of this, but it will be much, much worse if B and D find out through circumstance or a third party (ie, you).

It's no fun being the moderator, is it?

edit: D'oh. Missed an important point. Are A and C really into each other, or is this really more a revenge/general infidelity thing? Whether or not they're interested in breaking ties with their former partners or salvaging those relationships will drastically change the tone of how exactly you should go about getting them to open up...

edit2: Syka is proof of why I never post here. She says things much better than I do...

:smalltongue: Not always. There are definitely times (like this one) when I'm clueless. Feel free to charm in whenever. The more the merrier. :)

Glaivemaster
2007-07-13, 12:30 PM
Well if any of you have been reading the warcraft thread, you probably know what this'll be about... I just started a second character a few days ago, and another person started at the same time as me (with a male character), we got to talking and formed a party... They then tell me that in RL they're actually a girl...

I'm not sure how to explain the next bit, but I feel attracted to them even though I'm not sure if they are a girl and don't know anything about them... She seems really nice, kind of a content, nieve, adolescent personality... We always make a party (just the two of us)... and try and stiuck together and help each other out as much as possible (admittedly that's all part of the game)...

And she apologizes for shouting and seems really worried she's offended me and stuff... even when she doesn't shout (much)... and earlier she blew me a kiss, so now I'm confused... help! :smalleek:

Well, thje pessimistic part of me will say just leave it, since it'll probably never work out, over the internet. The optimistic part of me says don't worry, there's plenty more fish in the sea :smallsmile:

I don't know how to put this politely, so I won't: are you the sort of person who finds themselves liking girls just because they seem to be interested in the same stuff as you, or because they talk to you? The quick transition from finding out she's a girl and then suddenly liking her (implied in your post, sorry if I got it wrong) says that you might be.

I'm exactly the same like that, and I generally consider myself pretty desparate. I don't think that liking a girl over the internet is ever a good idea though.

Sorry, but that's the only advice I can think of really

EDIT: Regarding PMs, of course I'm up for being asked privately for advice

EDIT 2: Glad to see this back up again. I may even post some of my own troubles soon for people to dissect

Sir_Norbert
2007-07-13, 12:32 PM
Hey, there's nothing unusual about falling for someone you only know over the internet. I've done it four times now :elan: and two of those led to happy and fulfilling relationships. The problem is that it's a lot easier to get confused over whether they really are sending you "signals", what with the lack of body language clues and suchlike.

If you really feel you want things to go further with this girl, then talk to her about how you feel. (Wait a sec..... you say the Warcraft thread.... on this board, right? So how do you know she isn't going to read your post?) If she's not interested in you in that way, at least you'll know, and you can move on, and that can be a lot better than being left guessing. One of my unsuccessful internet crushes, I wasn't sure whether she was sending me signals right up until she told me she'd just got together with someone else, and as you can imagine, the suddenness of finding that out made the pain all the more crushing.

Sir_Norbert
2007-07-13, 12:37 PM
I don't think that liking a girl over the internet is ever a good idea though.
Oh, it certainly can be. My current girlfriend and I are going really strong and there's something in me feels sure this is going to be the one that lasts. And the girl I mentioned in my last post who rejected me? The man she got together with is someone else from the same forum I met her on, and they're also going very strong. As are some couples from this very board, from all I can see :elan:

SilverClawShift
2007-07-13, 01:25 PM
Internet relationships can be made to work, if one party is willing to re-locate for the other. My current mate and I met online, because we shared some particular interests that tend to lead to a satisfying relationship :smallbiggrin:

Keeping the relationship internet bound is just waiting for disaster though.

Koreku
2007-07-14, 04:02 AM
Okay, I think I need some advice... This is a pretty long story, sorry about that.

About 8 months ago, I met this girl at my school, and we both shared the same interests and acted like we'd been friends for a very long time even after I had just met her, as we were completely comfortable and not shy around each other. Amazingly coincidentally, we both loved fantasy, were both writers, and we are both interested in magick (she's wiccan, I'm not sure what to be yet). I had a pretty big crush on her, but, having never been in a relationship before, I never really came forward about it or asked her out.

Two months passed, and we became very good friends. One day, I found out that she was bisexual. This is not a big deal to me at all, I'm very accepting of people's life choices. But somehow it kind of lowered the crush a little bit, but only for a while, then I liked her alot again.

However, during that little time while I didn't have quite as big a crush on her, I kind of asked out this other girl that I also had a little bit of a crush on (let's call her B and the first girl from above A) (It was more by accident than anything, it became this thing where she was guessing who I liked, and i decided to make it her for a surprise sort of cute way of asking her out. Besides, i did like her, if not quite as much as I did the other girl.) It worked, and B became my girlfriend, and A stayed my friend. I was very happy about this at the time.

I dated B for 6 months, if it can even be called dating. we did not go out once, as she kept claiming her schedule was too busy, every single week, for 6 months. I should have taken that as a sign she didn't like me and dumped her, but i felt like i would be being a jerk if i did just because of her schedule. I even asked her several times if she still honestly wanted to be my girlfriend, and every time she would say "of course i do".

During those six months, the only time we ever spoke to each other was during one class at school, where she didn't seem all that interested in it. She knew my phone number, but never called. I called her sometimes though, but she always acted like she wanted to end the conversation as quickly as possible. She acted completely apathetic towards me. During one of the school dances (which i was supposed to take her to but she said her dad could give her a ride...) she talked to her friends the entire time. Once, I went over to here and was about to talk to her when one of her friends (none of which I like) said "go away, no one likes you". I obviously expected my girlfriend to say something like "that's not true, obviously I do" But she didn't say anything, and i walked away.

That night I sent her an e-mail explaining that I was very confused about how everything was going, and concerned about our relationship. I wrote in a completely good-natured way, and explained that I was not angry, just confused. To my surprise, she wrote back with a venemous letter filled with insults, for no apparent reason (wait, what? why? I have no clue) that was the last I heard of her, as she sent it two days after the last day of school, around a month ago. I obviously took it as her breaking up with me.

Now, going back to the past just for a second, a couple months into dating her, I brought it up in casual conversation with girl A. I thought she knew about it already, but apparently not. she said, "Oh, really, you're going out with B? I didn't know that" the next day when I saw her in school she was crying. I felt sorry for her even though I didn't know what was wrong, because (although i wouldn't have ever considered cheating on B) I still kind of felt like i liked her, and was beginning to regret asking B out (but again, I didn't say or do anything about it, as I also liked B very much at the time) I went to see what was wrong and she said it was nothing, really, although I thought it might have something to do with me having a girlfriend.

Now, to the present. Girl B and I, as already shown, have broken up. Girl A and I still talk on the phone about our common interests and are still good friends, in fact she is coming over next week so we can start a book we plan on writing together. I would definately ask her out at this point (i regret ever not doing it, she is one of the nicest people i know and we share almost everything in common, it feels like we were meant for each other). Except for one problem. Now she has a boyfriend. what the heck should i do!?

Thank you for reading, i know my story is way too long

AngelSword
2007-07-14, 06:12 AM
So I found out that my ex and her boyfriend have broken up. Oddly enough, I feel bad for her. I didn't think I could feel sympathetic towards her, after she abandoned me when I needed her, but I do. I just want to send her a message, tell her it'll be alright, and that I'm here if she wants to talk about it. But I don't think that's an option. I don't know how to tell her that, while I can't forgive her completely, I forgive her knee-jerk response to my cancer.

When I spoke to a mutual friend regarding the situation, her first reaction was to tell me to give her a bit of time before I attempt to get back with her. After telling her that it wasn't my intent, she seemed a little surprised.

Serpentine
2007-07-14, 07:07 AM
Koreku, it really depends on your own consience. If you tell her, it will get things out in the open, she can make her own mind up about you and will know for when/if she breaks up with her boyfriend. On the other hand, you may put her in an awkward position, and if she did break up with her boyfriend to get with you, would you be comfortable knowing that? Not offering an opinion on whether you should be, it's just something you'd have to consider. If you don't tell her, things will presumably go on as they are and you'll still be able to mention it when/if they break up naturally. On the other hand, you might miss your opportunity, and/or she might continue with this guy because she doesn't think you're interested and/or that she can get anyone better.
Yeah. I should just stop giving advice. I'm never very helpful :smalltongue: