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Syka
2007-04-28, 09:50 AM
Well...After the confession thread, I saw way too many "what do I do in this situation" threads popping up, so here is one nice compendium. Come here to post questions about how to approach the opposite sex, the dread first date and, should you be in a relationship already and fairly certain they don't read Giant, a place to complain/seek advice about a current flame.

If you'd rather not make it public, I will compile a list in this thread of people who will accept PM's to give advice.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.


Private Advice Givers:
Syka (me)
Glaivemaster
Prince of Cats


RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

Cheers,
Syka

darkblade
2007-04-28, 05:26 PM
Well to kick this thread off from Darkblade#1...

Right now I've got myself in a situation that despite many a protest from people in th real world seems utterly pointless to contiune. I was hoping for some reasonably unbiased opions. I'm a 16 year old guy in the middle of nowhere Canada. I recently developed feelings for this girl who I have been good friends with for the better part of the two years I've known her. I asked her out a few months ago to no actual response, just an akward bus ride home and going back to being friends the next day. An almost friend of mine has also been pursuing her solely for her body (he is rapidly losing his friend satus). Right now she is in France on exchange and I was hoping my feelings would die down but they only got stronger. I know she doesn't see me as anything more than a friend and likely never will but I can't bring myself to give up and move on. Is this pointless?

and Darkblade#2...
There's this woman I love, and have for over a year. I love her more than anything else in this world, but she doesn't love me back. How do I know? She's told me. Almost worse, she feels responsible for when I was depressed and suicidal a while ago. She isn't responsible, but she won't believe that no matter how much I tell her.
She lets me hold her, though her reasoning is slightly lacking, if I've ever actually heard it from her. My theory is that it's purely out of a feeling for responsibility for my previous mindset, though other people tend to disagree. And so I must ask, which is the best course of action to take in such a situation?

((Darkblade#1 thinks Darkblade#2 should get his own account))

J_Muller
2007-04-28, 05:29 PM
A more simple question from me... Are there any movies in theaters now that females would enjoy being taken to? There's a girl at my school I intend to ask out soon, and a movie seems like something simple for a first date, but I don't want to invite her to a movie if there's nothing out that she would enjoy...

Syka
2007-04-28, 05:31 PM
Hrm, I already addressed the second one in your other thread.

To the first one...It may be. If you can just be friends, that might be good, but judging from her reaction she didn't really know how to react to it. I've been in situations where a guy just kind of springs that he likes me and I just have no clue what to do, generally because I don't actually feel the same way about the guy but I'd like to stay friends. It could be different but, stay friends if you want. If you can't get over her and she gives you other signals that she isn't romantically interested, I'd suggest slowly lessening contact.

J, Hot Fuzz is one I'm really looking forward to. Grindhouse would be a bad idea. Trust me on that one. oo' Hrm...I can't think of any others that are in theaters offhand, but it's hard to go wrong with a comedy like Fuzz.

J_Muller
2007-04-28, 05:35 PM
Yeah, I'm checking on the internet and Hot Fuzz does seem like it would be funny. Don't worry, I wasn't even considering Grindhouse. She's not exactly a Tarantino kind of person.

Of course, I'll leave it up to her which one she wants to see, but it's good to know that there are some good choices before I ask her.

EDIT: Well, Hot Fuzz looks good, but too bad it's R... neither of us are 17 yet. Ah well. I'll figure something out.

Vespe Ratavo
2007-04-28, 05:37 PM
Great idea, honestly. Just FYI, I'm officially opening up giantitpanonymouscrushes@yahoo.com for this as well (if it's all right with Syka, of course). Just put "Relationship Advice" or similar in the subject line.

@V Will do.

Syka
2007-04-28, 05:40 PM
Sounds good. If you pass the Relationship ones on to me, I'll post them on here. Thanks. :)

Syka
2007-04-28, 08:05 PM
I've got one for y'all.

I'm going to take a gander and guess that it isn't normal to be slightly peeved and a bit scared upon realizing you've fallen in love, yes? Just curious. I mean, given my situation (particulars upon PM) it isn't really surprising. It just feels slightly wrong that I would tarnish what should be such a happy feeling (and it is most of the time) with something so...negative.

tgva8889
2007-04-28, 08:34 PM
Well, it didn't happen to me so far. I'll say that much.

So yes, fear would be an odd reaction to me. Though, really, I can imagine someone being afraid of falling in love. To someone else, that might be a really weird feeling, so much that it's alien.

Timberwolf
2007-04-28, 08:47 PM
I'm not going to anonymise this because, what the hell, I'm not particularly fussy about who knows I've asked for advice and help with something.

I'm in a bit of an odd position right now. I am steadily developing feelings for my housemate. This is bad in several ways. The first is that it goes against one of my personal rules (although it's rapidly getting to the stage where I'm beginning to think "Screw it, it's more like a guideline"). My housemate is also not very confident about themselves at all to a whole new level and I am getting decidedly mixed signals. We are due to move out in 2 months time. They're moving away and I'm not sure whether or not me doing anything would be appreciated or not. They had a bit of a bad experience with their last housemate in this sense and I don't want to freak them out. It got really, really wierd apparently and they're still not quite recovered from it. (The person whom I replaced was quite persistant and scary with their attentions to the extent of my housemate not wanting to be alone in the house with them.)

So ladies and gentlemen, tell me please. What do I do about this ?

Zephra
2007-04-28, 09:11 PM
@^
if you thing they want you [kind of] to do something (what do you mean by that) do it in a very non-pushy way. gently, or something. it should be a good middle-ground


Well to kick this thread off from Darkblade#1...

Right now I've got myself in a situation that despite many a protest from people in th real world seems utterly pointless to contiune. I was hoping for some reasonably unbiased opions. I'm a 16 year old guy in the middle of nowhere Canada. I recently developed feelings for this girl who I have been good friends with for the better part of the two years I've known her. I asked her out a few months ago to no actual response, just an akward bus ride home and going back to being friends the next day. An almost friend of mine has also been pursuing her solely for her bodyoooh! kill him. that's so rotten. (he is rapidly losing his friend satus). Right now she is in France on exchange and I was hoping my feelings would die down but they only got stronger. That is how you know that you really love her. if it were a passing thing, it would be gone already I know she doesn't see me as anything more than a friend and likely never will but I can't bring myself to give up and move on. Is this pointless?
you don't need to give up and move on. be her friend, and treat her like a friend, but add your love, because if she thinks you want her for her body, you haven't got a chance. no one wants to be treated like a thing. and be patient. when she compares the way you treat her with the way he treats her, she'll love you all the more


Red parts are my response^

Glaivemaster
2007-04-29, 03:45 AM
It's hard to quote you, Zephra, if you're going to do crazy things like this :smallwink:


That is how you know that you really love her. if it were a passing thing, it would be gone already

I've posted my thoughts on this in the original thread, but I'm still going to put them here. I disagree with what Zephra said. Sometimes 'a passing thing' can take quite a long time to pass. I still believe that it will pass, in time. If she didn't say anything the first time, it's probably because she didn't want to say no, and being persistent isn't going to change her mind.

Do what you want, but if she doesn't like you back, nothing worthwhile is going to come out of a relationship


you don't need to give up and move on. be her friend, and treat her like a friend, but add your love, because if she thinks you want her for her body, you haven't got a chance. no one wants to be treated like a thing. and be patient. when she compares the way you treat her with the way he treats her, she'll love you all the more

Just because she likes him even more, doesn't necessarily mean she'll like him enough. She probably already knows you don't just want her for her body, since you're already good friends, so I don't think that'll change anything

The way I see it, you already know that you're only friends, and that probably nothing more will come of it. You said as much yourself. I do think that you need to just leave it. You'd be surprised at how quickly you can get over it if you stop convincing yourself that you can't

As I said: Do what you want. Tell her about your feelings if you really feel you must, but I expect that pushing this will only make things awkward

Totally Guy
2007-04-29, 08:34 AM
My problem is that I have difficulty meeting women. I know three ladies at work all of whom are in relationships. I live with three in my house share, all in relationships. There are six on my course, four of which are in relationships, I've asked both the singles out in the past but they aren't interested in me, fair enough.

I go to pubs and clubs occasionally however I can't hear anything there and can't communicate very well.

During the day I occasionally go down to the town centre and prepare a joke about a product or something. The other day I went to all the shoe shops saying to people it was like the cup and ball game and I knew there was a low price under at least one shoe. Unfortunately I don't meet many women in the mens shoe shops...

I avoid going to places like leisure centres where I might meet children. When I was small a friend got a chap into all kinds of difficulties by saying bad things, it was no big deal for him in the long run but it's something I'm scared of, kids can destroy adults with the right words.

The other issue is that I know what I'm after, a relationship, long term, commitment, I want to get to know her as well as I do myself. I don't know anybody like that though, they all want something different. Plus I look very young for my age, Micheal J Fox in back to the future, or early Hugh Grant maybe, so although I am very good looking the ages doesn't match right.

Glaivemaster
2007-04-29, 08:40 AM
My problem is that I have difficulty meeting women...

Do you have any friends that might be able to set you up with a woman?

Totally Guy
2007-04-29, 08:52 AM
That's a touchy subject, I moved to my current city of residence in January so I have the nurses I live with, they are on my side. Friends from university I write to every so often but I rarely get any response. Friends from my home town I no longer talk to. And for good reason, I won't be writing that up.

So the best bet is the nurses. I'll give it a go.

Death, your friend the Reaper
2007-04-29, 09:11 AM
So the best bet is the nurses. I'll give it a go.

Ah, I know a plan!

All you need to do is cut off a your left arm and leg, and then get rushed to hospital.

Then when you wake up with this nurse flustering over you you can state:
"I've been dying to see you, but I'm all right now I have seen your face. But now we are all alone, how about you show me how hospitable these hospitals can be, after all, it's costing me an arm and a leg to stay here. My heart is already fluttering, although truth be told that could be the meds..."

Then you have both shown her you have a humour, and dedication!

Just have the hospital on speed dial, the plan can't fail!*

*Disclaimer; Death Inc does not accept any liability for lose of limbs.

Jewish_Joke
2007-04-29, 10:49 AM
Syka, you're brilliant!

Murongo
2007-04-29, 11:20 AM
Hmrf. Anyone know how to dance? I've been to plenty of dances but I've always had the convenience of sitting out or at least drawing very little attention to myself while I dance. Unfortunately prom requires that I do some serious dancing with people and I don't have a clue how to dance.

Probably not a big deal, but I don't want to remember myself as the guy who stood in the nerd corner at prom. Not that being a nerd is a bad thing, but I just feel like I'd have missed out.

I guess I could always just do the low-profile thing where I copy the girl and sway with the music but it would be nice if I actually knew how to dance.

Vonriel
2007-04-29, 11:25 AM
Okay, this is gonna be awkward and probably bad advice to some people, but ask your mom. She most likely knows how to dance, at least well enough so that you don't make yourself feel like a fool. Alternatively, if it's bothering you that much and you have an understanding date, you can ask her and see if she'll teach you how. My 2 cents.

Syka
2007-04-29, 11:43 AM
Go to a club, if possible, with a friend or two. Cut loose. ;) I also thought I didn't know how to dance until I went to a club a few weeks ago and realized I'm not as good as some, but I'm as good as most. And it was fun. :) Alternatively, ask your date and your mom is probably a good idea too.

Timberwolf, wait until they move out. If they've had bad experiences in the past with roommates, then that will turn them off. If you show discretion and wait until they are in a more comfortable situation, they will probably be more open to something.

Glug, I concur with asking the nurses for help. Also, what one of my friends is doing is when a girl strikes his fancy...He's been asking me how to proceed. So far the best places he's found for chatting up girls is...when he sees them at work (Subway, etc, 'cause we're in college). If you decide to go that route, make sure you talk to them for at least the first 2-3 times before asking for a number/date. From personal experience, I'll tell you while some can pull off asking the first time, most just come off as creepy.

Jewish, I know I'm brilliant. ;) Now why do you think that?

Batman
2007-04-29, 03:41 PM
A more simple question from me... Are there any movies in theaters now that females would enjoy being taken to? There's a girl at my school I intend to ask out soon, and a movie seems like something simple for a first date, but I don't want to invite her to a movie if there's nothing out that she would enjoy...

Holy crap, dude. You DO realize that not all women are the same? Like, girls are people, with individual tastes and preferences, and having a uterus doesn't link you into a hive mind? Females in general enjoy all movies. There's no movie a female hasn't seen. We have no idea what kind of movies this particular female enjoys. You know who does, though? She does. So maybe you should ask her.

On another note, though, going to see a movie is a crappy idea for a first date, unless it's a movie you both really want to see and the date won't end after the movie. On a first date, you want to talk to someone and get to know them; it's hard to do that when you're sitting quietly in the dark paying attention to something else.

J_Muller
2007-04-29, 04:01 PM
Holy crap, dude. You DO realize that not all women are the same? Like, girls are people, with individual tastes and preferences, and having a uterus doesn't link you into a hive mind? Females in general enjoy all movies. There's no movie a female hasn't seen. We have no idea what kind of movies this particular female enjoys. You know who does, though? She does. So maybe you should ask her.

On another note, though, going to see a movie is a crappy idea for a first date, unless it's a movie you both really want to see and the date won't end after the movie. On a first date, you want to talk to someone and get to know them; it's hard to do that when you're sitting quietly in the dark paying attention to something else.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, calm down. You're going to give yourself an ulcer if you let yourself get all worked up about things like this.

Second, I'm obviously going to let her decide which movie she wants to see. I'm obviously going to check, though, to see if there are even some good options. As there aren't any anime movies (she's an anime fan) out, I'm falling back to comedies, probably Hot Fuzz.

Third, obviously the date isn't going to be the movie and nothing else.

Syka
2007-04-29, 04:28 PM
Batman, you are correct to state not all girls are the same. I like just about any type of good movie.

However, some movies just are not good 'date' movies. I enjoyed Borat, yes, but it's probably not the best choice of date movies unless you are comfortable with the person (thankfully I was). Grindhouse, also liked and saw it as a date movie...But once again, I've been dating the guy a while. Generally you want to keep a first date movie fairly light

Midnight Son
2007-04-29, 04:36 PM
However, some movies just are not good 'date' movies.I was going to take a girlfriend to see Beauty and the Beast on our first official date. She decided she wanted to see Alive(y'know the one about the futbol team eating eachother in the Andes). I should have taken it as an omen and dumped her right then and there. Would've saved a lot of heartache later on.

tgva8889
2007-04-29, 05:31 PM
For the dancing thing:

Is this a "slow dance" or not? If yes, then it's not that hard.

If you don't know how to slow dance, let them lead. They most likely know what they're doing.

And keep your feet away from theirs. So far, I've been lucky enough not to hurt anyone.

The first time I slow danced was last year, and actually someone else (one of the girls in my grade who I classify as "generally annoying") actually made it happen. Typically, asking a friend is a good plan. I asked my friends how to, and it worked for me.

Missing Shoe
2007-04-30, 12:28 AM
I have a complicated situation. I'm not sure if you can help me but here is hoping.

Last year around this time, I dated this girl for about 4 months or so. At first, it seemed like we had a lot in common. Then, we found out how little we had in common. We like the complete opposites in food, and because of such, we always had to eat out. We didnt get along with each other's friends that well. We started to fight over the simplest of things, and every time we fought she cut herself. I became overly stressed out because I didnt want to hurt her, plus I was stressed by the fact that she was living with her ex (She dated this guy for 2 1/2 years, they moved in together. Then she broke up with him for me.) I became agitated, she became bitter, we fought even more.

We ended up breaking up and she went back to her ex. He left for the marines (and is still currently in service). After he left she began to throw her life away. She became an alcoholic, picked up some bad habits and lost her full ride at our college because of it. I tried to maintain friendship but she said she didnt want me in her life anymore. So I left it at that.

-

6 months has past since all then. Now she is trying to be friends again. She came over the other day to borrow my gamecube controllers. She was kind of acting like she did when we first started to like each other (but she could have just been friendly, I couldnt tell what she was thinking). She unloaded on me that since we last talked: She dropped out of school and is now working 80 hrs a week, she can no long have kids, both her parents lost their jobs and she is trying to help them, her one brother ran away from home and they dont know where he is, her other brother is wanted by the law, she has an stomach ulcer, she hardly eats anymore, she is an true insomniac, she had a couple mental break down, she still cuts herself - but on the bright note, she doesnt drink as much, she quit smoking, and she made sure to mention that she no longer gets her period because she cant have kids.

And through it all, I cant help but miss her. My feelings for her are coming back, even though I know that we didnt mesh at all, even though her life is complete and utter hell right now, even though she cant have any kids anymore and I do want kids someday, I still want to be with her again. I'm not sure what to do from this point on. I dont know if she has a boyfriend, I dont know if I should bring it up or if I should let it slide. She invites me to do stuff with her friends, but like I said, I dont really care for any of her friends. I've dated girls since we were a couple but it hasnt been the same, and I always had her in the back of my mind, comparing them almost.

Is this just a passing feeling and I should leave it at that, or should I bring it up with her? Or should I just play it normal and if it happens, it happens? To add a wrench in the situation, I will be moving away 2 hrs from here for the summer. So if we did develop feelings again, we would be apart throughout it all.

*sigh* :/

tgva8889
2007-04-30, 12:34 AM
How much do you think about it? If it's borderline obsession, tell her. If not, then you have options.

I'll give you some more advice later: Right now, I have to sleep.

Syka
2007-04-30, 12:56 AM
I have a general rule of thumb about dating and that is- if you broke up, there was a reason. Chances are (and I think this is right in your situation) the reason is still there.

I still think about my ex from time to time. It's normal, this person was special to you and a part of your life. I would suggest, if you can handle it, just being her friend- and nothing more. Make that clear if she starts to come on to you...Especially given her boyfriend (or did they break up?) is in the Marines. I have a problem with people who cheat while their loved one is away...Especially serving our country.

It seems like right now she just needs a stable and positive influence in her life. Be there for her, but don't let her use you. If she does start to use you, I would cut ties. That is not healthy.

On that note, I feel terrible for her. Life is tough enough, with out all that stuff. And knowing she can't have a child...that has to be one of the worst feelings. I don't want to have kids, but I don't really feel like losing the choice.

I apologize for typos...It's 2am and I need sleep.

*hugs all around*

Cheers,
Syka

Glaivemaster
2007-04-30, 01:41 AM
I'd say leave it, to be honest, for the same reasons as Syka. Also, if you're moving further away, it'll probably become easier to get over as you see her less often

If you can talk to her without seeing her as anything more than a friend, that's probably still nice. She sounds like she needs a lot of support at the moment. But you probably already knew that part

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 01:54 AM
Missing Shoe

My advice: I am in agreement with Syka. Don't try to get things started with her again, but definately be her friend.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-30, 02:03 AM
I'm going to take a gander and guess that it isn't normal to be slightly peeved and a bit scared upon realizing you've fallen in love, yes? Just curious. I mean, given my situation (particulars upon PM) it isn't really surprising. It just feels slightly wrong that I would tarnish what should be such a happy feeling (and it is most of the time) with something so...negative.

Not at all. The assumption of what love is, how people experience, and how it is expressed, has been grotesquely co-opted by virtually every social and cultural construct (right down to the heart shaped box vendors) for control over one of the most fundamental facets of human nature.

Love is powerful, and it gives you over to a lot of thngs you don't have control over. Another person, some pretty crazy and wild emotions. Fear's a pretty natural response to something of the magnitude of love. Sometimes it's an epic encounter and all you've got are NPC levels.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-04-30, 02:23 AM
Hmrf. Anyone know how to dance? I've been to plenty of dances but I've always had the convenience of sitting out or at least drawing very little attention to myself while I dance. Unfortunately prom requires that I do some serious dancing with people and I don't have a clue how to dance.

Probably not a big deal, but I don't want to remember myself as the guy who stood in the nerd corner at prom. Not that being a nerd is a bad thing, but I just feel like I'd have missed out.

I guess I could always just do the low-profile thing where I copy the girl and sway with the music but it would be nice if I actually knew how to dance.

For slow dancing: it's pretty simple, if you can't sway a little bit and turn in a circle at the same time, well, I don't know that anything I can say here can help you out there.

For the other kind of dancing: I had the same issue, and I really only got over it at my senior semiformal. But, if you have any friends who enjoy dancing, imitate what they do, and stay near them. They'll draw the most attention and provide a sort of guide for you to follow.

The Prince of Cats
2007-04-30, 04:18 AM
If you'd rather not make it public, I will compile a list in this thread of people who will accept PM's to give advice.
I can give advice; I can't promise to sugar-coat it, but I can offer advice.


My problem is that I have difficulty meeting women.
Join an amateur theatre group. That way, you also get to go 'hands on' with a few possible matches too. I have never known an actor (amateur or pro) who was not inundated with eligible matches.

I met my wife when we were in the same theatre company, back when I was professional, so I know it works.


Unfortunately prom requires that I do some serious dancing with people and I don't have a clue how to dance.
Slow-dance? Easy...

Move in time with the music. Find a friend (preferably female, but a male friend confident of his sexuality could suffice) and practice moving in time to music. Start with swaying if you must, then move on to moving feet. Mainly (and this is why I suggest a female friend), you want a reasonable amount of physical closeness and synchronised movement. Dips and twirls are all very well, but they are bad for closeness. Slow dancing is a mobile hug, not a martial-art.

Alternatively, watch others dancing at the prom, then join in and try to copy the people who had simple but graceful steps...


Okay, this is gonna be awkward and probably bad advice to some people, but ask your mom. She most likely knows how to dance, at least well enough so that you don't make yourself feel like a fool.
Well, I suppose my mum taught me to pogo (she was a punk) but anything beyond bouncing and spitting is a little outside her area of expertise.


I'm obviously going to check, though, to see if there are even some good options. As there aren't any anime movies (she's an anime fan) out, I'm falling back to comedies, probably Hot Fuzz.
My sister works in a cinema and recommends Wild Hogs, but I am not sure if it is showing where you are.


Third, obviously the date isn't going to be the movie and nothing else. In many cases, it might have been. My first ever date was just a film and then home. The cinema had these seats that were curved, so you couldn't really interact with the person next to you without losing the blood-supply to your arm.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-04-30, 04:36 AM
Slow dancing is a mobile hug, not a martial-art.

So very true.:smallbiggrin:

Khantalas
2007-04-30, 04:41 AM
Slow dancing is a mobile hug, not a martial-art.

Not if you do it with your sparring partner. Then you instinctively move to a shiho nage position.

I'll never be able to apologize to her enough.

The Prince of Cats
2007-04-30, 05:02 AM
Not if you do it with your sparring partner. Then you instinctively move to a shiho nage position.

I'll never be able to apologize to her enough.
I would assume that was a joke, but I have a strangest feeling it really did happen. I know I have dropped into en-garde before now when half-asleep and playing badminton. I mean, these actions are supposed to be instinctive, so it does happen...

Khantalas
2007-04-30, 05:03 AM
It did not happen while dancing, no. That was a joke.

It did happen, though.

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 05:31 AM
My tiny bit of woe:

Me and my boyfriend have been together over two years now (apart from that one month but best not to talk about that) and I love him but not, I'm fairly certain, as much as he loves me (somehow relationships always turn out this way with me, I'm just coldhearted I reckon).
Now atm everything is all hunky dory and good. But in september I'm going to university (hopefully, need to get the grades first) and moving to Wales (again only if I get the grades) while he will be going to do a placement year somewhere (he's got offers all over the UK and some from abroad) as a motor engeneer.
Now personaly, much as I love him, I really do not want to be in a serious long distance relationship for my first year at university. I want to be free to enjoy the perks of uni life and tying myself down at 18 with such a serious relationship comitment does not appeal at all, I love my independance.
Thing is he stayed with me when he went off to university almost two years ago so I feel a little bad about these thoughts. Now we haven't talked about this situation all really, well not about what'll happen to 'us' but I get the impression that he thinks we're going to attempt a long distance thing, which makes me feel extra guilty. Thing is I'm reluctant to broach the subject with him because a) I don't talk feelings, not really, it's just something I don't do, b) September is still a long way off and I may change my mind as the time nears and don't want to cause any unecessary tension in our relationship if I do end up changing my mind c) if I mention it now he may figure there's not much future in the relationship and cut it off now, which I don't want, I want to enjoy our last few months together and d) the grades I need to get into uni are really high, if I don't meet them I'll probably end up stuck in this s-hole for another year, and some of his placements he's considering are fairly near so there would be no problem and again it would be causing him uneeded stress if it turns out I don't get the grades.
This isn't so much looking for advice (though feel free to give it if you want) as a sort of rant, most of my close friends are in serious relationships and are almost all gunna attempt long distance (one of my friends who was adamant she wasn't has now completely changed her mind) so they're not especially understanding of my independant thing. Also they're almost equaly close to my boyfriend as they are to me and much as I'm reluctant to talk to him about it it'd be far worse for one of them to let slip to him before I'm ready to broach the subject.


Ok...that rant over something less serious and far more funny:
He drunkenly kissed one of his male friends the other night and then pecked my female friend on the lips and is now begging for forgiveness. Why I'm not quite sure...there's not anything to forgive, it's just funny...Bless...Silly drunkard

TheBoneSplitter
2007-04-30, 07:49 AM
I'll give advice for the fun of it, as a bit of a conscious in check type of thing:

Send him a letter, at least very soon describing all of those emotions. Tell him that you want to value whatever you may do in University (save for um, you know, viciously cheating or doing something down the road that'll be rather bad for your emotional health) and that you want at the very least, a break from all that he's done for you and you for him. The seperation is usually intended for most couples to at least go about different pathos of life for the time being, and if you've spent a bit of time with him, maybe it would be necessary to pursue the break. If you sincerely love him and perhaps want to live it out in the later years, tell him within the letter. Otherwise, you could want to be friends with him, yadda yadda yadda, the preference is up to you. If you do this, and when you do go to uni (if so), then don't feel constricted to him unless there's a way you can send letters back and forth. Moreover, you've got enough time to seriously think about it, and it won't be a huge life changing thing if you choose to cut the relationship and just be friends (or to sever contacts with both ends hopefully on good terms.) It all depends on how you've taken things with him, and how the best logical step to end it would be.

I could think a little more on this, but I've just woken up... and it's best I got it out now than late when I'm more lazy than not. :P

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 08:21 AM
Oh I have no doubt we'll stay good friends when we split up. We got on fine during our split in december (which had been intended to be permanent). Unless one of does something to completely devalue what we had I see no reason not to stay friends, after all we've had to drift away from each other just cause we're no longer kissing and 'stuff' seems very stupid to me. I've never got couples that hate each other after they break up.

Much as I love him I cannot see us ending up together in the long run, and neither can he, which'll make it easier when we get to talking it over. I'd murder him out of sheer fraustration, or he'd murder me, one or the other. We might casualy hook up again on holidays or something but if we split up before I go to uni it will definitely be permanent.

I hate writting letters, even more than I hate opening up to people so when I do this It's gunna be in person rather than anything else. letter, emails, texts and stuff all seem a bit spineless ways of doing it. But then again I may be biased against the writen medium for stuff like this after my first ever boyfriend broke up with me via a very heartfelt but terribly gramaticaly incorrect email and then asked me back out by an equaly heeartfelt letter with almost illegible spelling shoved through my door at 1AM. They were both so badly written and overemotional and clingy that it made me question why I'd been with the boy in the first place (answer: he's a lovely friend and drop dead gorgeous, prettiest boy I know actually)

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-30, 08:24 AM
Distance will make division convenient.

Parallax
2007-04-30, 08:54 AM
Nerzi, your tirade has more red flags than a communist parade. Since you're only 18 and by your description your boyfriend seems older (read, more experienced) I'll show them to you so you can make your own decision.
Jigsaw puzzle piece #1: You believe your boyfriend cares about you more than you care about him. You need to seriously ask yourself where that impression is coming from and whether it's substantiated.
JPP #2: Your boyfriend is looking for jobs all over England, and even abroad.
JPP #3: He got back with you after you broke up even though you may have to start a long-distance relationship soon.
JPP #4: You live in the middle of nowhere.
Trouble assembling it? Read the solution.
Your boyfriend plans on leaving, and leaving you behind. He will remain with you for as long as it's convenient and then dump you. He might even do worse: NOT break up with you but keep you on the back burner at home so he's got something to do on the weekends when he visits his family. After you guys broke up, he realized that romantic prospects in your town are few and far-between and decided that you'd be an acceptable temporary solution until something better comes along.
All this is assuming, of course, that you'll keep your laissez-faire attitude, get crummy grades and not get into university.
Don't feel guilty, he's in the relationship for the exact same reason you are. What you need to think about is yourself, or rather, since you're already thinking only about yourself, what you need to do is stop beating yourself up for it.

Mick_the_Rogue
2007-04-30, 09:54 AM
Had a girlfriend about 4 or 5 weeks ago, there was a break up, that was fun...Anyhow, I'm more or less back to normal and willing to get back in the game, my problem is just finding someone that I'd like to get with...Not really a big problem and I'm in no rush, just sort of disheartening to not really have anyone to pine over (though it does have it's benefits, such as burping and farting at random intervals and no one truely caring)

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 10:05 AM
Hmmm interesting to see the conclusion you've managed to draw about him with minimal information.


Jigsaw puzzle piece #1: You believe your boyfriend cares about you more than you care about him. You need to seriously ask yourself where that impression is coming from and whether it's substantiated.

Oh believe me I have questioned it a lot and found it sustantiated. I've stated that he loves me more because, I think, it is a simple fact. We broke up last time for partly because the extent he cared for me was making me doubt whether my feelings were quite as strong. I still say they aren't, but I love him anyway.


JPP #2: Your boyfriend is looking for jobs all over England, and even abroad.
And good for him too. :smallbiggrin:
It's a competative field for his placement year, only 15% apparently get on them he's got to aply widely, the more aplications the better. If he refused to try and advance his education and potential career by only aplying localy because he happens to be in a relationship here he wouldn't find himself in one (that decision reeks of clingyness and dependancy). Apart from that since I'm probably moving away it would also be a very stupid reason. I've been fully supportive of his decision to apply and sincerely hope he gets the one best for him wherever that happens to be.


JPP #3: He got back with you after you broke up even though you may have to start a long-distance relationship soon.
Yes we got back together, 10 months before I have to leave for university, it was hardly 'soon' when we did. It's still a few months off it's just that the imanent exams and end of term make it seem much closer now.


JPP #4: You live in the middle of nowhere
I live in a craphole of a town but it's not quite the middle of nowhere. Fairly easy to get to more interesting places if you have money for trains (which I don't) or can drive (which I can't).



Trouble assembling it? Read the solution.
Your boyfriend plans on leaving, and leaving you behind. He will remain with you for as long as it's convenient and then dump you. He might even do worse: NOT break up with you but keep you on the back burner at home so he's got something to do on the weekends when he visits his family. After you guys broke up, he realized that romantic prospects in your town are few and far-between and decided that you'd be an acceptable temporary solution until something better comes along.
All this is assuming, of course, that you'll keep your laissez-faire attitude, get crummy grades and not get into university.
Don't feel guilty, he's in the relationship for the exact same reason you are. What you need to think about is yourself, or rather, since you're already thinking only about yourself, what you need to do is stop beating yourself up for it.

He actualy did get with someone after we split up. When he thought (correctly as it happens) that I was upset about him seeing her he dumped her with no prompting from me because 'my frienship was worth more than the physical thing he had with her'. We got back together because we care about each other, not because he realised 'romantic prospects were few and far between'. He's had numerous occasions to cheat or leave me for other girls, some of whom, in my opinion, are much more attractive than I am.
Yes he's older (2 years, hardly a big difference), yes he is more experienced, but he isn't using me. If he was he wouldn't have waited the best part of a year for 'that thing one would assume he was using me for'.
Neither would he have offered to pay for plane tickets to and from Australia so I could spend a month with him there before I left for uni if he got the placement there.




assuming, of course, that you'll keep your laissez-faire attitude, get crummy grades and not get into university.
I'm interested in how my attitude towards long term relationships shows my attitude towards work and ability to get good grades. I said if I get into uni on the first point as as I said they are litteraly asking for almost the top grades it is possible to achieve. Whilst I can get these, and am predicted to, one bad day falling in exam week could screw this up, to say it's a definite I'll get in would be a lie, hence the 'if'.

To be honest I'm not feeling especially guilty as such (a little, but not enough to really bother me too much) because I know splitting up and going our seperate ways free to make whatever screwups we will is what will be best for both of us in the long run.
Yeah I feel bad that it'll hurt his feelings, but not bad enough to cause me any real angst or is likely to change my mind (guilt is not a reason to stay with someone afterall).
What is sorta pressing on me a bit is that I've made this decision but he has no idea about it yet and it's not something I want to broach with him until it needs to be. So it plays slightly on my mind sometimes and will likely cary on doing so until the time is right to talk it over.
Just needed somewhere to rant and get it out of my system for a while and this seemed like a fairly good place. :smallsmile:



wow...sorry for that monster of a post...and aplogies for any glaring typos or confusing sentances, am very tired atm and may have missed stuff in proofreading.

Syka
2007-04-30, 10:42 AM
First, I hate the whole breaking up because you don't want to be tied down when you go off to college deal. I just think it's bull. I was with my ex for 3.5 years, all long distance, and going off to college did nothing to change how much I loved him. And if you are in a serious relationship back home, it's not really that much different in the "tied down" aspect. --'

That being said, and this comes from having been in a long distance relationship myself, I don't think it would be a good idea. You sound averse to the idea and...the fact that he drunkenly did what he did would make me worry that, given distance, he would do more. Getting drunk is no excuse in my books. It just doesn't sound like you are ready for what a long distance relationship entails.

And you would be shocked how different some people can act after a break up. --' I've got a funny story of my own about that, but won't put it here.



Mick, enjoy the eye candy while you can. ;) Just be happy in your singleness, and you might be surprised. If you are really wanting to chat someone up, look no further than, say, a coffee shop, or a class you are taking. There is probably someone there who might have more in common with you then you would think. I met my first boyfriend at a Latin convention, and the guy I'm dating now in my math class. At first glance, I have very little in common with my current guy...but when you find out what we both actually like, there is a lot there.

Sorry if I missed someone.

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 10:50 AM
Nerzi

How far away, in the most probably circumstance, would you be living? If he is going to be within an hour or two, I can direct you to the example of two of my friends. They have sucessfully stayed together through the first year of college, despite one living here in Lincoln, and the other in Aimes, Iowa. (Distance-2 hours). How? Visits every other weekend on a predictable schedule, phone calls every night, and frequent IM conversations as well, with a Webcam too if possible. The thing is, both of you need to be willing to make the effort and stay in constant communication, both of you need to really want to keep it rolling, and both need to have a set date on when you will next see each other.

It is more than possible to keep a long distance thing going if you really want to. My current girl friend used to live in London before moving out here to Nebraska (Ie, Nowhere). She had been dating her boyfriend at the time for five months. They kept it going long distance for nearly a year and a half longer before they broke up, largely because of two reasons: One, he got addicted to WoW, and two, he didn't go through the trouble of staying in frequent communication( Ie, she sent an Email every other day of a page, and he sent a three word response back once a month.)

Now, as a Final comment. If you really don't think you can keep it going, or you really don't want to, end it as painlessly as you can before you go. Don't halfheartedly try to keep it going long distance, just to end it a month later.

Good Luck.

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 11:07 AM
Different sorts of relationships suit different people. I don't see me ending up with him in the long term future. So why make the effort to keep it going in a difficult long distance relationship when I can end it nowish on good and freindly terms rather than waiting for it to just peter out or end up with one of us shacking up with someone else (or whatever might happen to end it) that could end with us falling out and not parting as friends?
Sure it's nice at the momment, I love it, and at this momment in time I love him, but that'll fade eventualy, I don't want to spend my whole life with him I know that already. And if It's going to end eventualy than now(ish) where we're both going our seperate ways physicaly is a convenient time as ever to end it. It'll leave both of us completely free to do what (and who if it so turns out) we want without being tied down to a relationship that ultimately won't last anyway.

I'm such a cynic.


Ninja'd! meh don't think my post really needss editing though.

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 11:11 AM
Right. If you feel like that, end it before you go to University as nicely as you can.

Good luck.

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 11:22 AM
Thanks. :smallsmile:
As I said my main bug is knowing this is how I feel but not telling him until the time's right because I don't want to put a damper on the relationship now. I want to be able to enjoy this summer with him without it hanging over both of us.
Who knows, he may even be thinking the same thing...lol

Driderman
2007-04-30, 11:22 AM
Nerzi, you say you don't see yourself ending up with him in the future... Is that supposed to mean "There's not a snowballs chance in Hell" or just "I wouldn't expect it, but who knows?" cause there's a very big difference. If its the first, by all means, finish off the relationship and go have fun with boys in Wales. If the second, why don't give it a chance. I mean, I'm living with my girlfriend now and in the beginning I surely didn't see us 'ending up together', but we did and we're both in love and comfortable living together despite our differences.
As for long distance relationships, it can work just fine if you both want it to. If you'd rather not be tied down by a relationship while he's away, by all means, tell him. Maybe you can figure out a solution you can both appreciate and when he gets back you can see if you're still interested in each other

Vonriel
2007-04-30, 11:28 AM
Hmm, I see a lot of good advice for Nerzi here, but I think you guys might be missing the point. It isn't that she's going to break up with him, she's definitely decided on that and I'm against trying to change someone's mind unless it's a truly self-harmful decision, but rather when she should break up with him. Well, ok, it's really that she just needed a place to rant, but I still think the issue of when should be addressed.

I'd advocate against waiting too long, Nerzi. Sooner rather than later. Now, I don't mean you should go out and tell him the very minute you read this, but give it enough time to sink in and to let you two become comfortable with the idea that you're no longer together. As you said, some things just can't be communicated over text, and trying to convince someone that you just want to stay friends is one of them. Personally, I'd shoot for at least a month, two would probably be better, before you each leave for your respective places. From the sounds of things, you'll both handle this maturely, which is good. But if you were to wait until, say, the week before you both left, then I imagine you'd both be distracted in those first few weeks before you worked something out, and you might not be able to salvage the friendship between gossiping with friends you met since you left and negative thoughts that enter your mind. Anyway, my thoughts on this.

Driderman
2007-04-30, 11:38 AM
Yes well in that case I suggest having the talk as soon as possible so she won't have to go worrying about it later. Besides, he might sense that there's something and press the issue if she doesn't tell him herself.
I've been in a similiar situation and our relationship worked just fine even though both knew it had a time-limit on it. Actually, I suspect we both tried even harder to make the last months enjoyable which made it even greater. Of course, it was tough to end it but hey, thats life and you get over it

Thomorn_BattleFate
2007-04-30, 11:40 AM
What do I do now?

I've been seeing this girl online. She's in Spain, and I'm in Canada. When we met, I was already seeing someone, and unhappy as all hell in the relationship. This woman from Spain and I immidiately hit it off, and I fell for her very hard. She also fell for me, or so she says. For a while I was convinced.

As I was living with the first girl, I couldn't leave until I got things under control, and managed to finish a night course and get a job to pay the bills.

So I stayed in the relationship, biding my time. Making sure the Spanish woman knew how much she meant to me, and never doubted that I wanted her, and would be with her one day.

She tells me after about a month that her Ex has asked for a second chance, and although she's in love with me, she needs to give him a second chance to know it wasn't her fault the relationship didn't work. She also assured me I shouldn't worry, since I will stay in her heart always, and in the end, she'd be mine anyways. She also told me nothing would change between us while she was "trying again with him."

About a month ago, she starts getting distant, I stop getting daily e-mails from her, and she starts meeting me on MSN far less often. But anytime I ask her, she simply says she's been busy, and still loves me, and still wants to be with me.

A week ago she says she can't continue the relationship anymore because she feels horrible cheating on him...

But she tells me she still loves me and still wants to be with me one day, and wants to stay friends while she's with him...

Am I crazy for being in love with her, and believing that this thing will work out in the end?

Syka
2007-04-30, 11:45 AM
Erm. I'm going to stay away from this one. I don't want to sound like a total b*tch, which I will. Honestly, I should just stay away from all problems in which cheating is involved...*zips lips*

Nerzi
2007-04-30, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the advice guys. :smallsmile:
Yeah definitely leaving it till just before I leave isn't a good plan. I was thinking mid july I'd take the oportunity to talk to him about it after we get back from a surfing (yipes! I've never surfed!) holiday with his friends in Newquay. But before may be better as I'm going away on another holiday this time without him almost as soon as I get back from that one...
So many holidays going on :smallbiggrin:

Driderman
2007-04-30, 11:51 AM
Thomorn: I'd suggest just staying away from online-dating/relationships. It gets crazy and it isn't really real most of the times. Its simply too easy for people to pretend to have feelings and 'go through the motions' of having a relationship without ever having to really look your partner in the eyes and say those three little words ( no, webcams don't count ).
Also, Syka has very valid point...

Vonriel
2007-04-30, 11:59 AM
Glad to hear we could help, Nerzi.

And Thomorn, I gotta refrain from commenting for other reasons I don't wanna get into. Sorry man, I wish you the best of luck in figuring out what to do.

Vampiric
2007-04-30, 12:21 PM
@Thomorn BattleFate: Not a good plan. If she is becoming more distant, it sounds like she's liking her ex-ex more. I wouldn't hold on if I were you, the way you tell it sounds like you're going to lose out... If I were you: try and move on. Nothing good can come from this. Even if she does finish with her ex-ex, she has already shown that she's prepared to hang guys out to dry while she 'deals' with the one she's dating.

And now, for my problem to twist your mental cogs:

My gf and I have been going out for 2 years (nearly) (minus a week, similar to Nerzi) and, yes, we are in love. About 4/5 months ago, she started new work. (we're both at college. British college. we're both 18.) At the same time, her best friend left to join the marines (that hasn't worked, but anyhoo.). She has kind-of replaced him with this 23-yr old guy who works with her. He is having a break from Uni, his relationship isn't going to well, and he apparently sees his friends very rarely. (my gf seems to have become his best friend, he tells her pretty much everything. And I mean everything!).

Now for some backround knowledge.
Last year there was this guy in my gf's psychology class, who had (sorry for the cynicism) a sob story, and my gf fell for it hard, so she used to talk to him about his problems, etc. etc. Anyway. Basically, he ended up stalking her (getting to her at the end of her lesson, so he could walk with her, following her from a distance, that sort of thing.) and I had this gut feeling, I guess, is the best way to describe it, and for no particular reason, I didn't like him. I should have been able to get on with him, but I hated his guts.. Then we all (except my gf) realised he fancied her, and was following her everywhere. Anyway, she realised eventually.

But the point is that I now have had this same bad feeling for this new guy for a while (he also tries to get to see her a lot). He has also admitted to wanting to go out with her. My problem is that, he is basically her best friend 'replacement', so I don't want to offend my gf (though she does know I really dislike him), but I just want him to back off, because sometimes it feels like (maybe I'm getting paranoid, or maybe I'm overreacting) that, sometimes, when it's a choice between me and him, she chooses him, and sometimes it's when I've made sure I can spend time with her...

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 12:29 PM
Thomorn:

I'll take a shot at this one. My gut instinct is that this won't end well for anyone. First off: Distance is a killer in this case. Second, the whole situation smells fishy to me. Despite the fact that she says she loves you, she is still giving her ex a chance that, from the way you describe it, sounds like it has been going on far longer than a mercy chance.

I would simply back off. This just seems too suspicous for me.

Syka
2007-04-30, 12:35 PM
Vampiric.....That's a hard one. I'd say let her know that you feel like, when you have made plans or something, and it is then a choice between you or him that she chooses him. She might not even realize it. Also let her know you are worried this guy might do the same as the other guy (stalking, etc). I must impress upon you however, to not make it seem like you are saying she can't hang out with him.

With my ex, I set some boundaries up with him. One of them was I requested him to not hang out alone with one of his female friends. I was aware that there were some unresolved feelings there from before, and he even told me he was scared he might do something with her. So I said, "Don't be alone, and don't put yourself in a situation where something might happen." Do not be scared to request certain things like that. I wasn't saying they couldn't hang out...I was asking him to be careful and watch himself.

This is a situation where you need to tread very lightly.

Thomorn_BattleFate
2007-04-30, 12:39 PM
Thomorn:

I'll take a shot at this one. My gut instinct is that this won't end well for anyone. First off: Distance is a killer in this case. Second, the whole situation smells fishy to me. Despite the fact that she says she loves you, she is still giving her ex a chance that, from the way you describe it, sounds like it has been going on far longer than a mercy chance.

I would simply back off. This just seems too suspicous for me.
She agreed to give him another chance in January... She told me originally she wasn't in love with him anymore, but it seems to me, if that was the case, then she wouldn't leave me for him... Since she says she DOES love me. I'm a wreck. I can't sleep properly, or eat or anything...

And I can't stop thinking about her.

Glaivemaster
2007-04-30, 12:57 PM
She agreed to give him another chance in January... She told me originally she wasn't in love with him anymore, but it seems to me, if that was the case, then she wouldn't leave me for him... Since she says she DOES love me. I'm a wreck. I can't sleep properly, or eat or anything...

And I can't stop thinking about her.

I'd agree with dropping it. Is there any way to know she's telling the truth? Not just about loving you, but about anything else? It's always important to look at that sort of thing in an internet relationship. I don't really have much more to say on this at the moment

Vampiric
2007-04-30, 01:10 PM
Thanks Syka. Any idea how I could bring up the subject? Sometimes, when I've said something, (to let her know the truth, because I don't want to conceal the truth from her, because I have no reason) but she sometimes flys off the wall when I say it, then I apologise cos I don't want her to be angry.

And with regards to previous post, I'm not worried about her going, I'm worried about him.

Driderman
2007-04-30, 01:52 PM
Well, Vampiric.... If you tell her in a mature fashion and she flies off the wall about it, I suspect that might be what's called a guilty conscience. Not that she's necessarily done anything she shouldn't have. It could just be that she knows she's been ditching you when she should've been ditching him and she feels guilty about it for some reason.
The only thing you really can do is try to get her to discuss the situation like an adult, without flying off her handle or off the wall or down a well or whatever. She needs to understand that

Bayushi Koji
2007-04-30, 02:23 PM
Syka.... part of the reason I'm trying to sort out certain major life issues for myself at the moment is because of how much the young lady I like scares me.... its the first time I've genuninly been a little afraid of and intimidated by the intelect, charm and grace of a lady I've desired in such a pure and total way.

To me, the moment you realise you are in love should feel like you have the cliff edge under your toes, you can feel the ground shifting and just as it goes, you feel some one take your hand and make it all alright. But thats just me.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-04-30, 02:30 PM
Vampiric, I'm siding with Syka and Driderman here. Your best bet is to be honest with her; tell her you're uncomfortable with this relationship, and you want some limits on it. I have found through long years that it is so much better to be honest and forthright with your partners, it's absolutely worth any percieved risk.

Being in a relationship is about negotiating, but people can't make those negotiations without information. Her only chance to respond to your needs is if you tell her, honestly and respectfully, what those needs are.

ArchiviesTheQua
2007-04-30, 02:39 PM
umm.. I haven't posted on the forum in a while, due to personal reasons, but I couldn't hold back.

So my relationship problem? I like a really great guy, and apparently he likes me. Sounds great, right? But there's a catch.

a) He's my ex. The reason we broke up was because of b.
b) He goes to a different school that is about a half an hour or something away.
c) My parent's don't approve, and me, being easily persuaded into guilt, I think that I need to listen to them, since they've been right most of my life. They don't approve because not only do they not know him, but I didn't tell them the first time I went out with him, and that's a whole other story in itself.
d) I'm not going to see him for about another 5 months (I think) after this Saturday.

I really like this guy, and when I broke up with him the first time, I was really depressed, and since I just got out of a depression, I don't want to go back.

I really don't know what to do. I know it isn't nearly as bad as some of your other relationship issues, but it means a lot to me. Could you lend me your ears? That would be awesome.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-04-30, 02:50 PM
I really like this guy, and when I broke up with him the first time, I was really depressed, and since I just got out of a depression, I don't want to go back.

This is the key for me: you should be really careful thinking about this relationship. As has been discussed many times before, distance, while not an absolute killer, can be a major relationship stress, and potentially wrecking your emotional state right after you've fixed it up is a bitter, bitter thing to go through.

My sense? You're still attracted to whatever you were attracted to in this guy before, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean things are going to be any better after another go. I'd encourage you to wait this one out, and if after 5 months you're both still free and interested, maybe then it's worth a second look.

Driderman
2007-04-30, 02:55 PM
Good call from Jaspero. You'd be better off pining for this guy for 5 months and it then pans out than jumping right into it now and getting depressed when you don't see him for 5 months. So bide your time, if it's really worth it its worth waiting 5 months for.

Bayushi Koji
2007-04-30, 03:03 PM
Archieves... the way I would look at it is... no point in doing anything about it now because it might just be a walk through old feelings for you two.... I often find girls like any of my ex's are dangerous to be around at first because they put me into those 'head spaces' and make things difficult for me.
If how ever you both find you've spent the whole 5 months apathetic to other prospects, using the other half of your pair as a comparision for any one who tries to date you..... Call me crazy but their might be something their.

This time apart is not an excuse to mope.... its an excuse to go out and revel in the joy of life....... only that way will you know if its because you really like them or just you want to think about them lots.

ArchiviesTheQua
2007-04-30, 03:21 PM
Thanks guys. You gave me a better angle to look at things with. Hopefully I can just move on.

Muchos gracias, people!

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-04-30, 03:28 PM
Thanks guys. You gave me a better angle to look at things with. Hopefully I can just move on.

Muchos gracias, people!

No sweat, ATQ: sometimes all it takes is someone taking a look from the outside to give you a new perspective. Be good to yourself, and best of luck!

Syka
2007-04-30, 03:43 PM
El J's advice is good. I remember with my long distance relationship, while I wouldn't trade it for anything, the last...4 months or so I noticed traits of depression. It wasn't serious, but other than isolated incidents...I just wasn't happy- because it hurts to be seperated. If you look at me now, I'm the complete opposite. I have isolated days where I just want to mope, but 99% of the time I'm happy. Procede with caution, though my advice (like before) is to not get back with an ex. Not to say it can't work, it just normally doesn't.

Bayushi, thank you. That is probably the best definition of love I have ever seen. The first time around I wasn't really scared, because I didn't know about it. Now that I know about it, I've been clinging on to the edge of the cliff for dear life. I started letting go last night. :) He still hasn't heard/seen "I love you" from me yet...But he has gotten a "<3 youse" and a love ya. ;) I dunno...I seem to be having a block about actually saying all three together at once.

I probably shouldn't worry, because other than giving me the little hearts, he's only said all three once. I think we're both trying to take it slow and not freak the other out. oO In any case, I know he'd catch me. :)

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 03:53 PM
She agreed to give him another chance in January... She told me originally she wasn't in love with him anymore, but it seems to me, if that was the case, then she wouldn't leave me for him... Since she says she DOES love me. I'm a wreck. I can't sleep properly, or eat or anything...

And I can't stop thinking about her.

I would try to distract yourself. I know, really hard. A girl I fell hard for and had a crush on for a long time did something like this to me. It was really hard for a long time, until I eventually just slapped myself and said "Stop Worrying." I don't know exactly what to say, other than to dive into something else simply as a distraction. Just avoid letting it become an addiciton. I can recomend hanging out with your friends a lot.

Another thing to do might be to confront her with all your fears about this honestly and directly. Get it all off your chest, your doubts, your worries. Ask for an honest return answer. No matter what answer you get, it will be something that will allow you to move forward.

Vampiric
2007-04-30, 04:08 PM
Syka, I can understand your fear for love - the feeling that it entails some form of permanance, right? Don't worry. I was there. It took me 6 months to realise I was in love. I said it, and my gf was a bit 'not sure', but after another week or two, I heard those words back. Believe me, if you both mean it, it's the best phrase your ears will ever get, and it's the best feeling of elation. If you're happy with the guy, and only you can decide that, then, if you do love him, you'll find you won't worry about happens...

Syka
2007-04-30, 04:21 PM
It's not really the permenance. It is that, with me, love entails basically giving your heart to this person and trusting them not to break it. And, well, my heart just healed itself back up after a bad break up in November. It's been six months and I've been seeing this guy for six months (not as bad as it sounds...I was asked out post-break up, and we've been taking it, as a friend said, glacially slowly). He told me the words back in February...Scared the crap out of me.

I just kind of froze and we bypassed it for the rest of the conversation (it was through AIM). The next day we talked about it and everything just went back to normal. No harm, no foul. In the intervening 2 months, we've been slowly but surely been getting more serious. We still aren't exclusive officially, but I'm not dating anyone else and I'm fairly certain he is not either (I asked him to just let me know, I don't need to know who, and I trust him to say something). His family likes me (I'm going to his brothers graduation lunch this Saturday), and we pretty much talk everyday and see each other for hours a day when I get a chance to go home. I live 3 hours away at school, and he should be moving here with in a year (long term planning isn't unusual...he bought tickets for us to go to a concert in November).

And...I realized yesterday that I do love him. I knew because I wasn't going, "Do I or don't I?" It was just a yes. Now it's just a matter of letting him know he's got my heart to do with what he will. :\ </novel>

Wow...That turned in to more of a story than I thought it would. oO I reserve the right to delete this at some point if I see it necessary. ;)

mdsoze
2007-04-30, 04:33 PM
Vampiric,

If you're looking for a way to bring this up, I'd suggest doing it at a time it's not an issue. That way, you don't look like you're angry and feeling competed with right then.

For an exact method, once you have said time to discuss the issue that was gotten in a competition free manner, just say how you feel. But don't accuse or make it sound like you think she's doing anything wrong. Confine your statements to how you think the friendship is affecting the relationship. If you keep it in that context, you aren't overstepping your bounds.

If she gets angry, then ask her why she's angry. Her reasons for being upset may tell you a lot.

Other than that, keep your head held high, and wash behind your ears, and you'll make it through. :)

Oh, and I can give advice. I promise it will be worth ever penny you pay for it.

The_Werebear
2007-04-30, 04:34 PM
Congratulations, really all I can say.

If you feel that way, go for it and make the best of it.

Vampiric
2007-04-30, 04:51 PM
Thanks mdsoze. All two of them? I am very wealthy at the moment...

Driderman
2007-04-30, 06:47 PM
Seems like a lot of people are looking for relationship/dating advice on this forum so I thought I'd dole out a bit of Don Driderman advice :smallcool:

What Women Want - Non-specifically and just according to me

The dating phase: A general and often abused advice is to 'be yourself'. That surely goes a long way, but anyone who knows anything about impressing the opposite gender knows that you sometimes have to stretch that part a bit. Not lying, mind you, but simply being perhaps a bit more than you usually are. Just remember, should this lead to a steady relationship you have to live up to your 'promises' so don't stretch it further than you want to go. Anyone who's been in a relationship knows there's a lot of compromising and adapting.
Anyway, during the 'dating phase there are 4 main points:

Women want:

To be respected
To be impressed
To be entertained
To be seducedBasically, you'll have to be the perfect gentleman, and more (A gentleman being a man that protects women from any other man than himself :smallbiggrin:).
Showing proper respect can be a lot of things, from talking to her face and not her chest, to appreciating odd feminine wiles and issues you'll never understand to showing genuine appreciation for her interests and whatnot. Basic, but easy to forget. Being a good listener always helps, not only since women like talking a lot but also since this can give you valuable clues to her personality, likes and dislikes.

Impressing women: Again, a very broad category. Basic gender instincts still have a say in peoples choice of partners, so despite the tackyness shows of wealth may be appropriate. Reasoning: A good provider makes for a good mate. Just beware the golddiggers and all those who use this exact technique for getting free drinks :smallwink:
Dancing is a classic too, as most people have a notion that smooth moves on the dancefloor means smooth moves between the sheets.
My personal favourite, is telling stories. Sometimes I marvel why so many roleplayers seem to have trouble getting women seeing as we have a very potent tool available. Stories about your travels, experiences, whatever really, as long as its interesting, exotic always helps and not too directly about yourself. This part goes hand-in-hand with entertaining as funny stories is a real hit. Creativity, whether it be humorous drinking games, improvised poetry or just an aptitude for witticisms and sharp wit works too (That they understand, mind you. Few non-gamer girls are fond of gaming humour so OotS-references and the like will probably not be appropriate).

Seduction: While you have to be both witty, impressive and respectful, you must certainly not forget that everyone likes to feel wanted. This can be tricky, as there's a fine line between seductive flirting and being lecherous. It's usually better to err on the side of caution, there's always another day to continue your hard work. Still, a few suggestive looks, a sexually-related joke (in good taste of course!) and a lingering touch here and there goes a long way.
Just remember that most women grew up with dreams of Prince Charming and most women like romance stories that most men will never understand why anyone would want to read. You have to show that you're that Prince Charming or young dashing doctor or whatnot, while at the same time also being a real person: Yourself

The Most Important Part: The trick to 'getting women' is, like so many other things, practice. So practice. It gets easier after the first few tries, whether succesful or not. And there's nothing wrong with a one-night-stand as long as you're man enough to make sure you both know thats whats happening, if thats whats happening.

Disclaimer: As Barbossa would say, these are not rules, they're more like guidelines.
Men and women are both infinitely complex and I don't pretend to know everything about them, nor do I believe women are as two-dimensional as I may have made them out to be. I have however, been quite adept at courting women while not being an a-hole for 10 years so I have some experience in the field

Fourth Tempter
2007-04-30, 08:24 PM
That sounds more like "what People want" than "what women want" to me. If someone does not entertain you or respect you, why would you romance them? However, your generalities wrap some fairly specific advice that I would suggest taking with a grain of salt. Or a teaspoon of salt. Perhaps even a badger (or some other similarily-sized woodland animal) of salt.

That aside, I think more important than all of the above is remaining free of misconceptions. It is inarguable that some women appreciate it when someone pays their way; however, others may desire to cover their own half of the tab, and may indeed grow quite wroth if not accorded the opportunity to do so! A fierce Woman being a dangerous beast quite on par with a hungry Lion, this state of affairs is quite plainly one to be avoided.

In the end, the key is communication: unembellished, direct, and forthright. That is not to say that you should empty your closets of skeletons and hurl them at your prospective partner's unsuspecting feet; however, no one knows a person better than they themselves do, and as a result a person is the best source of information on themselves and their desires. If you are in doubt, inquire! Be honest with them, and they will be honest with you--or, if they are not, well... they're likely not a person worth investing exorbitant amounts of effort into.

Amotis
2007-04-30, 08:27 PM
That sounds more like "what People want" than "what women want" to me. If someone does not entertain you or respect you, why would you romance them? However, your generalities wrap some fairly specific advice that I would suggest taking with a grain of salt. Or a teaspoon of salt. Perhaps even a badger (or some other similarily-sized woodland animal) of salt.

That aside, I think more important than all of the above is remaining free of misconceptions. It is inarguable that some women appreciate it when someone pays their way; however, others may desire to cover their own half of the tab, and may indeed grow quite wroth if not accorded the opportunity to do so! A fierce Woman being a dangerous beast quite on par with a hungry Lion, this state of affairs is quite plainly one to be avoided.

In the end, the key is communication: unembellished, direct, and forthright. That is not to say that you should empty your closets of skeletons and hurl them at your prospective partner's unsuspecting feet; however, no one knows a person better than they themselves do, and as a result a person is the best source of information on themselves and their desires. If you are in doubt, inquire! Be honest with them, and they will be honest with you--or, if they are not, well... they're likely not a person worth investing exorbitant amounts of effort into.

Fourth Tempter is really my alt. :smalltongue:

And also speaks unblemishable truth.

Fourth Tempter
2007-04-30, 08:30 PM
Fourth Tempter is really my alt. :smalltongue:

And also speaks unblemishable truth.

I say, good sir! That's quite the insidious implication! Were it not for the complicated attached to the end thereof, such a statement would surely be cause for me to call you out!

Jazzman
2007-04-30, 08:46 PM
Hey people! :smallsmile:

Posting on this thread to offer my services as a sympathetic ear. I've been doing this is some capacity or another for going on 6 years. I've been on both sides of the relationshippy problems and advisingness, and I've heard a lot of things, and experienced a few more.

So if anyone wants to talk, I'll happily listen, no judging you or anything, either public or via PM.

--Jazzman

Fourth Tempter
2007-04-30, 08:48 PM
Oh, piffle. Confession simply isn't the same without the constant threats of fiery damnation.

Plus, outside of that cramped booth, I simply can't arrive at the proper mood.

Amotis
2007-04-30, 08:52 PM
CONDOMS ARE TEH DEVIL!

Yup, I love the smell of zealotry in the morning.

Call me out! I shall only echo in a mocking tone!

Syka
2007-04-30, 11:42 PM
Oh man...This isn't for me but...man...I get myself in bad situations.

I have two friends, right? A dude and a chick. Well, I was speaking with the chick yesterday and the dude came up...And she said that he reminded her of her little brother and she wasn't sure she could like him, etc...Which I take to mean there has been some thoughts on her part and therefore a possibility. There was speculation that he could maybe have a crush on her.

Kind of confirmed today. Now he's asking me about her (is it bad I kind of like her, does she like anyone, etc?) and I'm all "Crap." I don't want to get his hopes up high, but I don't want to dash them in case she DOES end up liking him. And I can't really bring it up with her because I already told him I wouldn't mention it...oO' Eeeeep...Not fun. --'

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-01, 12:46 AM
Syka... my advise? Its a thin, grey line that has to be walked here.... with regards to the guy, he needs to be told the vague trurth. Thinks like 'Well, I know she's not dating any one at the moment, but I'm not sure about wether she digs you'. You have two goals with your answers A) to get him to girdle up his courage, put on the tigers face and sally forth to meet the ene...... I mean, to ask her out. 2) It gives you time to find out how she feels. That way if she does like him, she can be encouraged to give some slightly more defenite signs with out breaking your promise to your male freind.

tgva8889
2007-05-01, 12:47 AM
Oh man...This isn't for me but...man...I get myself in bad situations.

I have two friends, right? A dude and a chick. Well, I was speaking with the chick yesterday and the dude came up...And she said that he reminded her of her little brother and she wasn't sure she could like him, etc...Which I take to mean there has been some thoughts on her part and therefore a possibility. There was speculation that he could maybe have a crush on her.

Kind of confirmed today. Now he's asking me about her (is it bad I kind of like her, does she like anyone, etc?) and I'm all "Crap." I don't want to get his hopes up high, but I don't want to dash them in case she DOES end up liking him. And I can't really bring it up with her because I already told him I wouldn't mention it...oO' Eeeeep...Not fun. --'


That's the sort of position I put my friends in all the time. It's not a good position, it sounds like. Maybe I'll be more caring now. Though, really, I don't tell my friends about my crushes anymore anyways.

Now, I have a problem. Can someone help me out here?

I think that a girl I know likes me, but I actually have no idea, since it's the first time this has happened when I haven't had my head clouded with my own emotions towards this person. Which would imply that no, I don't have feelings towards this person.

So, I'm wondering, what are truly signals that someone likes you? Because there's a few things she's done recently that seem odd to me.

First, she started talking to me. Being that she's in the, well, prep-popular-esque group of people in my school and I'm in the geeky group, we never talked much. The grade is relatively small compared to most other schools, though, so we all get along fairly well (to prove the point, one of the kids in the "geeky" group is probably the most well-known kid in the school, because he's just so...I suppose the word is unique. But anyways, he's not important). But she and I never talked. I didn't know anything about her except what I heard from rumors, which was that she apparantly had been going out with a good portion of the guys in my grade at some point during her two years at the school. And in other grades, too, I believe.

Second, she did a lot of things that seemed odd to me, because we aren't friends. She was one of the first people to talk to me about getting my braces off, which I did recently (she actually told me something similar to "you look hot without braces", though a lot of the girls in my grade joke like that, so it could be a joking thing). She was also one of the few to wish me happy birthday in words today (well, techncially yesterday).

And the last, and probably least important point. We were writing plays for a class, and after each person's play had been read and handed in, people were allowed to take the copies of them that we had home for personal enjoyment, etc. And she took one of mine. This shouldn't send up flags, in my opinion, but it did happen.

So, now I still have no idea what she thinks of me. And a friend (who is a girl) whom I just consulted said "Maybe". I really have no idea, so I was hoping to get opinions on whether I'm delusional again or whether she could actually like me. 'Cause if she does, I have no idea what I'm gonna do.

(She will never read this. Ever.)

Syka
2007-05-01, 12:57 AM
There is a chance but...I'm doubtful. The general signs (and this is not true for everyone, I know), is if she's like making excuse to be close to you (trying to sit next to you, etc), going out of her way to hang out with you, etc.

To me it sounds like she finds you interesting and wants to be friends.

Then again, I could be totally wrong. ;) And yes, it's not a fun position to be in. This is the second time this has happened (the first being my junior year in high school...similar, the guy liked the girl but the girl didn't like him).

Bayushi, yah...That's what I'm trying to do. He asked if she liked anyone, and I said no not that I know of. I wasn't sure how to say, "But you came up and you remind her of her little brother." I think her main thing is he reminds her of her brother, which kind of weirds her out to think of him romantically then. *shrugs* I'll see where this takes me and hopefully I'll escape alive.

SDF
2007-05-01, 01:06 AM
That sounds more like "what People want" than "what women want" to me.

True that. But music has taught me that girls just want to have fun. Also, according to the eye catch on the VHS cover for Lesbian Vampire Lovers of Lust that I saw in Hastings the other day, "Girls just want to have... more girls!" I don't know if it's true, but it does explain my relationship status. :smallbiggrin:

Vonriel
2007-05-01, 01:16 AM
Syka: Honestly? While I can't claim to know how her mind works, I'd question her some more about the whole 'little brother' thing. Especially if you know her little brother, and the guy isn't at all like him. For some reason, that just screams odd to me. Maybe she was just trying to think of some way to keep herself from acknowledge her attraction towards the guy, or maybe.. bleh, I dunno, it's like 2 AM and I'm still awake.

Driderman
2007-05-01, 04:16 AM
Yes well I suppose it could be named What People Want. I merely named and wrote it from my observations and experiences, which have solely been women so eh... Meh, semantics anyway. Use it or don't use it, if you feel the need to add to it feel free to copy it and edit it in a post of your own

Syka
2007-05-01, 09:10 AM
Heh, I might try and find a way to slyly do that.

Thinking back, it's kind of funny because I remember her saying she wasn't sure if he liked her. And I responded with, "I've been thinking the same thing, though I wasn't sure if it is him crushing on you or him just wanting company." Because he likes to get out of the house a lot and the way he does that is by coming with my friends and I. :) Smart guy, hanging with all girls. ;)

Vonriel
2007-05-01, 09:20 AM
I feel the need to point out that not all guys hang around with girls just to eventually go out with them. I enjoy the company, that's all. :smallamused:

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-01, 10:42 AM
In fact, associating with a woman simply because you have designs upon her virtue is reproachable, underhanded behavior. Furthermore, not only is it dishonest, but if you show no sign that you intend to woo her, why, she will dismiss you and accept another's offer!

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-01, 12:08 PM
There is a chance but...I'm doubtful. The general signs (and this is not true for everyone, I know), is if she's like making excuse to be close to you (trying to sit next to you, etc), going out of her way to hang out with you, etc.

*Hugs* Wish you well Syka, sounds dangerously like my job. Walking that thin grey line between lying and telling the outright truth.

With regards to your quote above, can I get your opinion on a VERY specific case. The evening I spent over at the young ladies I like.... her house mate was sat on one of the arm chairs, she was sat on the sofa with some bits and peices next to her and being a fairly unfussy guy, I sat on the floor in front of the the other chair to sort out a tasty smokable treat... Felicia (the young lady this is all about) does some more work on her disertation, looks up after a couple of minutes and goes 'Oh, if you'd like to sit on the sofa I can move these bits', then precedes to do so... all with out me saying anything either way. What do you reckon? I've been taking that as a case of she's comfrotable and relaxed around me, but I'm not sure if I can take it as more....

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-01, 02:35 PM
With regards to your quote above, can I get your opinion on a VERY specific case. The evening I spent over at the young ladies I like.... her house mate was sat on one of the arm chairs, she was sat on the sofa with some bits and peices next to her and being a fairly unfussy guy, I sat on the floor in front of the the other chair to sort out a tasty smokable treat... Felicia (the young lady this is all about) does some more work on her disertation, looks up after a couple of minutes and goes 'Oh, if you'd like to sit on the sofa I can move these bits', then precedes to do so... all with out me saying anything either way. What do you reckon? I've been taking that as a case of she's comfrotable and relaxed around me, but I'm not sure if I can take it as more....

Uhm... In cases like this, try to understand her point of view. It's her home (well, one she's sharing) and you're a guest yet she and her house mate are sitting comfortably while you aren't. She'll feel guilty that it's her fault that you aren't sitting down and doesn't want to feel like that so she moves some stuff. Would you only move your mess if it would make the girl you fancy more comfortable? I don't think so.

If she invited you into her home then she already feels comfortable enough to sit on a sofa with you. You're reading to much into this. I can understand if you're looking for signs that she might like you but this is as bit too much.

I'll ask a question about my own love life when I find a way so describe it as something other than 'stalking'.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-01, 02:48 PM
Closet... you point out an omission in my telling of the tale. I'd known this girl for about 3 weeks, a grand total of 4 meetings in that time. 3 of those being meeting at a local juggeling club, once we had a long chat when a group of her freinds and a group of mine met by chance for a drink. I asked her out on the 4 meeting, she said yes, but it then took 2 months almost to the day for us to have anything even vaguely resembling a date, which was to be invited over to her's to smoke joints and watch films while she worked on dissertation that will take her to south africa for atleast the next to years.... will probably become her permanent home for the rest of her life.
Also, there was a fourth chair in the room, that I had my back to and my bag on... it was a clear statement of being comfortable where I was.... I hope.
Hopefully correcting that omision will let you see why I hope a little more hangs on this..

P.S. On the whole stalking love life thing.....? I still preffer the term 'anonymus admirer' and you should check out 'Strange and Beautiful' by Aqualung.... its the ballard of the stalker.

Syka
2007-05-01, 02:52 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Closet on this one. I just like making sure my friends in general are comfortable. Now, this doesn't rule out the possibility that she may like you, but with just that incident alone I wouldn't jump to a conclusion. Now, if I like a guy I generally find a way to get in close contact with him, try to stand near him, etc. Not necessarily glued to his side, but he'll definitely get more attention than others. EDIT: That makes it a little more possible but...not definitive evidence.

Thanks for all you guys' help with my stuff. I've decided that if either brings it up, I'll just say, "You know. You're both my friends, and I don't want to assume anything. I'll help you with other people...but you're on your own with this one." :) That way I just remove myself from the middle.

EDIT the second: Stalkers are creepy. Secret admirers are sweet. Just don't take pictures of her from a far or leave dead animals and you should be good. ;) Notes, flowers, and candies are all acceptable. Disclaimer: Joking, joking... Secret admirers can be cool, though, as long as it doesn't go on too long.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-01, 03:19 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Closet on this one. I just like making sure my friends in general are comfortable. Now, this doesn't rule out the possibility that she may like you, but with just that incident alone I wouldn't jump to a conclusion. Now, if I like a guy I generally find a way to get in close contact with him, try to stand near him, etc. Not necessarily glued to his side, but he'll definitely get more attention than others. EDIT: That makes it a little more possible but...not definitive evidence.

Yay... someone agreed with me.


Thanks for all you guys' help with my stuff. I've decided that if either brings it up, I'll just say, "You know. You're both my friends, and I don't want to assume anything. I'll help you with other people...but you're on your own with this one." :) That way I just remove myself from the middle.

I think it's a good thing to not have to rely on match-makers. Often because match-makers try to set you up with people because they think you'd be cute together, not because they care about your everlasting happiness.


EDIT the second: Stalkers are creepy. Secret admirers are sweet.

I can't claim to be a secret admirer since there's a possibility she knows I like her. Last time I admited I liked someone it was at a boarding school and everyone found out within the hour, I don't know if it works the same way at the all girls school (with a mixed sixth form) I'm at now. Then again, if she does know I like her she probably decided I'm spineless and not worth noticing or she thinks that her friends are teasing her.


Just don't take pictures of her from a far or leave dead animals and you should be good. ;)

I drew a picture of her from afar once... That's probably more dodgy. I did that with the last girl I liked too...


Notes, flowers, and candies are all acceptable. Disclaimer: Joking, joking...

I don't like giving people letters because I'm scared that they'll read it out to their friends and make fun of me. Then again, giving her a Christmas card with nothing written in it was probably a mistake.


Secret admirers can be cool, though, as long as it doesn't go on too long.

Let's see... 'Love' (I know it isn't really love) at first site at the beginning of the school year and I haven't spoken to her properly. That's probably way too long.

Glaivemaster
2007-05-01, 04:24 PM
Closet. It's not too much to ask her out is it? If you like her as much as you seem to, then surely it's worth a shot to ask her out. If you want to be with her (which I'm assuming you do) then you're going to have to risk getting hurt. It's a general truth, I'm afraid. The payoff from a good relationship is worth far more than all the times you might get hurt, but you'll never find that out if you don't take the risk

Ok, that entire paragraph could be said better perhaps, and it sounds like I'm shouting at you (without even knowing your situation yet as well), but that's the best way I think I can put it right now. If you like her that much, you're going to have to work up your courage and tell her.

Syka
2007-05-01, 06:43 PM
I'm going to echo Glaivemaster. I don't really have time to fleshout a response, but what he said is good. :) And drawing a picture can be sweet. It's taking pictures with a teloscopic photo lense that alerts the creepsense.

As for it getting around...If I find out a guy likes me, usually my close friends whom I trust find out but I normally swear them to secrecy for the guys sake. I'd feel terrible if it got around. :\

Pyrian
2007-05-01, 07:41 PM
I didn't know anything about her except what I heard from rumors, which was that she apparantly had been going out with a good portion of the guys in my grade at some point during her two years at the school. And in other grades, too, I believe.

Invite her to something low-key and chatty like getting a coffee or a smoothie or something. Her intentions should quickly become clear, but if you still can't figure it out, ask.

If she is interested, claim your fifteen minutes, use protection, and don't take it too hard when she moves on (which, in all probability, she will). :smallcool:

If she just wants to be friends (and in my experience it's almost a rite of passage for the more intelligent teenage pop-girls to adopt-a-nerd platonically), embrace the opportunity - you can probably learn a lot from each other.

tgva8889
2007-05-01, 10:24 PM
I feel the need to point out that not all guys hang around with girls just to eventually go out with them. I enjoy the company, that's all. :smallamused:


In fact, associating with a woman simply because you have designs upon her virtue is reproachable, underhanded behavior. Furthermore, not only is it dishonest, but if you show no sign that you intend to woo her, why, she will dismiss you and accept another's offer!

I did that. Once. I actually ended up becoming quite good friends with her and all her friends. In fact, that's how I ended up meeting the person who I consider my best friend as of now. Though, the girl did know I liked her, as did all of her friends. So, I don't know. Maybe it's not really a nice idea.


Invite her to something low-key and chatty like getting a coffee or a smoothie or something. Her intentions should quickly become clear, but if you still can't figure it out, ask.

If she is interested, claim your fifteen minutes, use protection, and don't take it too hard when she moves on (which, in all probability, she will). :smallcool:

If she just wants to be friends (and in my experience it's almost a rite of passage for the more intelligent teenage pop-girls to adopt-a-nerd platonically), embrace the opportunity - you can probably learn a lot from each other.

The thing about that is two-fold:

First, I go to a private school, and thus live 30 minutes to an hour driving time from my school, which makes it hard to arrange anything.

Second, my class is looking for drama, and I've been known to create it. I particularly don't want to go asking one of the better known girls in the school out to talk.

As for whether it's actually real or not, I don't know. I have a tendency to over-analyze everything, so I'm trying not to ignore the possibilty that she could just be trying to be friends or something. I'll wait and see for now.

Vonriel
2007-05-01, 10:38 PM
I use that (:smallamused:) smiley face too much. I think I meant to use this (:smallannoyed:) instead. Ahh, well.

Humm, that is a tough situation. Not much you can do, I'm afraid. Why is it that rumormongers have to be so prevalent in school life?

tgva8889
2007-05-01, 10:56 PM
Humm, that is a tough situation. Not much you can do, I'm afraid. Why is it that rumormongers have to be so prevalent in school life?

If it weren't for the rumor-mongers, I have the feeling I wouldn't be emotionally damaged. Or maybe not. I don't know. I sure would be happier.

Pyrian
2007-05-01, 10:59 PM
I'm not quite sure I understand the danger of rumor mongers in this situation. From your earlier post they're already talking about her going out with practically everyone. You're not doing anything illegal or even potentially illegal (right?). What's the threat? Embarrassment?

I don't want to diminish the trauma of embarrassment - people kill themselves over it - but it really is something better gotten over.

I agree that you're over-analyzing, which basically means you're trying to come to conclusions from insufficient data. I was trying to suggest ways of acquiring a better understanding of what's going on. If the specifics aren't going to work, I still recommend that as a general strategy; it sounds like she's being slightly friendly, so be slightly more friendly back and see if things progress naturally.

It may be that my last suggestion wasn't low key enough. Maybe you could use the review circumstance as an opening for a more candid interview?

tgva8889
2007-05-01, 11:11 PM
Thanks for the help, Pyrian.

First, "going out" means a really different thing in my grade that it means for other people. It doesn't mean she had relations with people in the way you seemed to be suggesting in your last suggestion (though it's possible, I wouldn't know, I dislike rumors). "Going out" would mean general boyfriend-girlfriend-ness, more the "lovey-dovey" stuff, I suppose.

I didn't say there was a danger of rumor-mongers in this situation: rumor-mongers screwed me with an earlier relationship. Besides me being a complete idiot. Why oh why did I listen to my friend?

The only threat would be the fact that I'd get pestered about it. I hate being pestered. Good example: today I wore a pink shirt to school, one my friend gave me for my birthday and forced me to promise to wear (which I wasn't particularly against, I just tend not to wear bright colors). The shirt itself wasn't annoying me. It was the fact that every single person seemed to bring up the shirt. Pestered me about it. I got really annoyed by it.

(She also noticed the shirt without anyone telling her to pay attention to it. Not really important.)

Though really, I'm a pretty respected guy in our grade, so I don't really know what bad would come of it. I guess I'm afraid to get into relations with her because of how previous things have turned out and how I'm not used to being on the other side, whether in making a friendship or more. I tend to make my own friendships, not the other way around.

As for the "interview" deal, maybe I should just talk to her some. I never talk to her unless she's talking to me.

Pyrian
2007-05-02, 01:08 AM
Thanks for the help, Pyrian.My pleasure. :smallcool:


As for the "interview" deal, maybe I should just talk to her some. I never talk to her unless she's talking to me.I think that's a great idea.

Obsidian Blade
2007-05-02, 01:16 AM
Rrrg. We need a thread for just friendship advice.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-02, 01:56 AM
Rrrg. We need a thread for just friendship advice.

Yeah. Friends tend to last longer than crushes.

tgva8889
2007-05-02, 02:05 AM
Yeah. Friends tend to last longer than crushes.

Sometimes, crushes lead to friendships. As is in my case.

Edit: Isn't this a "relationships" thread? Aren't friendships relationships? Then again, it's not my thread, so I don't really know what can go on here.

Vonriel
2007-05-02, 02:06 AM
I don't know about Syka, but I really don't care if you wanna post about a friend in here. If you wanna keep it quiet, go ahead and send a PM my way, I might be able to help.

Arlanthe
2007-05-02, 02:15 AM
Women want:
[/B]
To be respected
To be impressed
To be entertained
To be seduced

Basically, you'll have to be the perfect gentleman, and more (A gentleman being a man that protects women from any other man than himself :smallbiggrin:).

Being a good listener always helps, not only since women like talking a lot but also since this can give you valuable clues to her personality, likes and dislikes.

Impressing women: Again, a very broad category. Basic gender instincts still have a say in peoples choice of partners, so despite the tackyness shows of wealth may be appropriate. Reasoning: A good provider makes for a good mate. Just beware the golddiggers and all those who use this exact technique for getting free drinks

My personal favourite, is telling stories.


Seduction:
Just remember that most women grew up with dreams of Prince Charming and most women like romance stories that most men will never understand why anyone would want to read.

I have however, been quite adept at courting women while not being an a-hole for 10 years so I have some experience in the field

No offense Drider, but your list sounds axactly like the kind of guidelines a man might think a woman would respond to. I haven't found this to be the case with my wife or my last two girlfriends.

I met my wife in line for Spider Man 1 on opening day, 2002. There was no pretext, show, or song and dance. Instead of putting up some kind of front forcing myself to try to "impress", "entertain", or "seduce", I was just myself. We exchanged e-mails and a lot of our talk was about comic-books, gaming, science, and the like, as well as more mundane things. We both talked and listened.

Since she's an intelligent, educated woman she never expected me to "entertain her" (though of course we entertain eachother from time to time), but she has more than enough depth and interests to entertain herself most of the time. I would never want any woman who needs, wants, or expects to be entertained most of the time.

This "a gentleman will protect them from all other men" or whatever is pretty much bollox. Women don't need to be protected from "other men" as it were, and from my experience they see jealousy and insecurity very unflattering. From my observation most women do not appear to appreciate the presumtion that her date/boyfriend needs to "protect" her from other men.

My wifes need to feel "impressed" is near the bottom of the list. I think you'll find most women do not, in fact, want to be "impressed" and are far more concerned about things like basic responsibility, being with a good listener, and respect. My wife finds show-offs obnoxious, as well as people who talk incessantly about themselves.

You are mistaken in your assumption most women like romance novels. In fact, most do not read romance novels (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IUK/is_2001_Wntr/ai_71837544). Only one in three women will read a romance novel in any given year, and that number decreases with education level. My wife, a post-grad, falls into the category where only 9% of women will even read one. I think the "prince charming" thing is a bit outdated, at least among reasonably modern and educated women.

I'd rather be married to a woman who can hold her own in a conversation.

The "gender instincts" comment about wealth is very much not taken well. The idea that women instinctually want "providers" and respond to shows of wealth is a myth. There are some women who are taught to behave this way, but it is by no means instinctual, and definitely not a standard. According to both polls as wall as empirical evidence, a woman would rather be with a man making a stable 30k per year, who is nice, respectful, and a good listener than a man who makes a steady 60k per year and is arrogant, detached, or disrespectful. A good book on these gender myths is called "Same Difference" by Barnett and Rivers.

In summary, I don't feel your list represents what women desire, with the exception of "respect". Of course, all women are different and some do want men with a chunk of cash, or braggy guys, and what not, but these are the exception and not the rule. If you bait for these kinds of women, you will certainly find them.

I on the other hand, appreciate the self-sufficient, educated modern woman who doesn't need me to be anything other than myself. My last two girlfriends also followed the above preferences, and my wife and I are still good friends with my last ex. WHo is also an intelligent, comics-reading gaming sci-fi fan who doesn't like pretentious men.

I find this topic interesting, and would really like to hear what some of the forum women have to say on the issue. I have only been speaking from my personal experience, but some other perspectives, especially from women, would be interesting.

Obsidian Blade
2007-05-02, 02:26 AM
I'll just wait until Syka responds before posting any friendship problems. This thread kinda was about romantic relationships...

Uberblah
2007-05-02, 02:27 AM
You could always just create a friendship thread as a failsafe.

Obsidian Blade
2007-05-02, 02:35 AM
Yeah, okay. It'll be better to have two seperate ones, anyways.

Tor the Fallen
2007-05-02, 02:36 AM
When a girl tells she loves you, is it ok to pull the Han Solo and say "I know"?

Uberblah
2007-05-02, 02:38 AM
When a girl tells she loves you, is it ok to pull the Han Solo and say "I know"?

IMO definitely not. That's rude. Only say that if you don't love her back. But it may backfire so choose wisely.

The Prince of Cats
2007-05-02, 03:22 AM
When a girl tells she loves you, is it ok to pull the Han Solo and say "I know"?
Later in the relationship, it can work. When she has just told you for the first time ever that she loves you, you shouldn't try it unless you are about to be encased in carbonite. Later on, as long as she knows Star Wars, I think the joke would not go unappreciated...

Nerzi
2007-05-02, 03:29 AM
I find this topic interesting, and would really like to hear what some of the forum women have to say on the issue. I have only been speaking from my personal experience, but some other perspectives, especially from women, would be interesting.

Ok, I shall attemt to give you my perspective then.

To be respected
Clearly yes everyone wants and deserves respect. But I do not want to be put on some stupid pedastal. Much as I may attempt to deny it I'm actualy not perfect. I like someone who can point that out when its needed. I'm quite sarcastic and teasing so a guy who can take my teasing and give back just as many (jokey) insults as give out earns respect points.

I do NOT needed to be protected and any bloke who exhibits sighns of this annoying jealousy and insicurity in attempting to 'protect' me from othr men goes straight out of the window. Proper respect would be to let me make my own decions, if I wanted to be with another man I would, don't be so insicure it's the biggest turn off ever. Of course the exception to the 'don't protect' me is if I thought I was in any real danger say from a stalker/some guy who might get violent, but in general no. Just no. In fact I would say to assume blindly I either want or need protection is about as huge a disrespect as you can get. No brownie points going for being an overprotective, insecure prick I'm afraid.

Be a good listener yeah, but be a good talker too. I enjoy conversation, not just talking while the bloke listens intently. The point is to get to know each other, if there isn't a fairly equal balance it's not good. I want to get to know the boy I'm talking to as much as he may want to get to know me so for gods sake make it a conversation and don't just sit their listening, I will walk out on you.

To be impressed
Shows of wealth, also not apreciated. Fine you may have money, very nice, I'm not going to complain about that, but random presents expensive gifts etc, not needed it's just showing off. Flowers from blokes get given straight to my mum, who actualy cares for the damn things, gifts I don't like will get shoved in the 'boyfriend box' and only taken out when I need a laugh.

I like to pay for my own half on dates, but if I honestly can't afford it (am a poor unemployed student) than yes I would like the guy to offer to cover it, that's not a show of wealth though, just shows I don't like tightfisted misers.

Telling stories is good, helps to understand someones personality, but while these can create a great impression they can also create an overwhelmingly negative one if they're too boastful, arrogant, full of yourself I will get bored very quickly and not be wanting another date.

Big shows of yourself do I'm afraid make you appear a bit insecure as in 'my personality isn't enough to attract a girl so I have to use my wealth and big myself up lots to get them interested'.

To be entertained
Well yeah I like a guy who isn't too serious and can entertain me. A sense of humour (as well as a resistance to sarcasm) is pretty essential for a bloke. But neither do I want a guy who's always 'the funny guy' don't go out of your way to entertain me, it appears desperate. Just be yourself.

To be seduced
Maybe I like doing the seducing myself :smallwink:
Yes having someone try to seduce you is flattering, it makes me feel better about myself. But it's not always needed and certainly not always wanted.
I'm a really flirty girl, but most of that is just friendly and with no emotions attached. I like a guy who can flirt back but cheesy lines (unless said in a very ironic way) and too much oggling are real turn offs.

In conclusion: I think it's stupid to try and attempt to win anyone bassed on some general guidelines, everybody is different and apreciates different things(aparently I have very different tastes to the women in Driderman's life). Just be yourself, because eventualy even if you keep up the act for ages first, your true personality will come out and that will be the deciding factor in how your relationship turns out. Yeah be nice to her, maybe tone down your more intense/whacky side a bit until you know her well enough to think she'll be comfortable with it, but essentialy just stay true to you. (Ooooh it rhymes)


Sorry for length...and any typos or stuff that doesn't make sense, brain not up to profreading...need sleep.


Edit:


When a girl tells she loves you, is it ok to pull the Han Solo and say "I know"?
Depends on where your relationship is.
Me and my boyfriend say it to each other all the time, but to be honest I don't think either of us were using it as a Star Wars reference or joke.

Obsidian Blade
2007-05-02, 03:34 AM
When a girl tells she loves you, is it ok to pull the Han Solo and say "I know"?

Hell no, IMO. If a boy said that to me the first time I told him I loved him, I'd be quite pissed off at him for ruining the moment/being arrogant. Maybe later in the relationship.
Maybe other girls would take it differently. But to say it to someone like me would be the wrong thing to do.

Nerzi
2007-05-02, 03:37 AM
Definitely not the first time she says it. But once you've told her you love her too (whenever in the ralationship that is) and so you both know the feelings mutual I see no reason why you shouldn't say it at all.

Driderman
2007-05-02, 05:30 AM
Firstly, I'd like the point out that the perfect gentlemen comment was a joke. I was sure I put a smiley at the end, too...
Secondly. Those are general guidelines and examples, not hard facts. But if we're comparing experience Arlanthe, I can beat your 2 girlfriends record easily but on the other hand you got a wife :smallbiggrin:
At any rate, I find these things have worked for me. You're not supposed to model your life after them, you're supposed to have a look at the suggestions and think 'Which approach would work best on the girl I like?' and then do something about instead of asking advice on the forum of a webcomic :smalltongue:

As for the 'just be yourself advice': Not a bad idea, but sometimes you just need to be a little bit more, if you really want to get the girl.

And as said before, if anyone wants to edit my advice, feel free. I'm sure it'd work a lot better if people simplied copied the post and added their views and suggestions instead of just telling me how they disagree cause I'
m too lazy to do it:smallsmile:

Arlanthe
2007-05-02, 05:56 AM
Firstly, I'd like the point out that the perfect gentlemen comment was a joke. I was sure I put a smiley at the end, too...
Secondly. Those are general guidelines and examples, not hard facts. But if we're comparing experience Arlanthe, I can beat your 2 girlfriends record easily but on the other hand you got a wife :smallbiggrin:
At any rate, I find these things have worked for me. You're not supposed to model your life after them, you're supposed to have a look at the suggestions and think 'Which approach would work best on the girl I like?' and then do something about instead of asking advice on the forum of a webcomic :smalltongue:

As for the 'just be yourself advice': Not a bad idea, but sometimes you just need to be a little bit more, if you really want to get the girl.

And as said before, if anyone wants to edit my advice, feel free. I'm sure it'd work a lot better if people simplied copied the post and added their views and suggestions instead of just telling me how they disagree cause I'
m too lazy to do it:smallsmile:

Fair enough. I think Nerzi said it best when she mentioned being yourself, because in the end your true personality will show anyway.

For the record, I specifically mentioned "my last two girlfriends" because they were long-term and along with my wife (current, hopefully permanent) that covers three long term relationships in my adult life. I have certainly had more girlfriends and relationships. Some did not go well specifically because I tried to be something other than myself.

The reason I think long term is important is because there is a difference between "romantic" and "intimate" love. Romantic love, while fun, giddy, and important, will ultimately take backseat to intimate love in a long term relationship. It's easy to idealize someone when you've dated them less than a year, and there are still all of those initial sparks. The relationship that becomes from truly knowing and sharing your life with someone after all of the retenses are buried is the most important thign.

Syka
2007-05-02, 09:07 AM
I have no advice to contribute at the moment, due to my brain being shut down after my Greek exam.

However, feel free to post about ANY relationship problems- romantically, friends, family. Whatever. It started as a romantic-relationship thread, but by no means am I going to discriminate. :) As long as it is relationship related, I haven't a problem with it. Heck, I don't even consider myself as the 'owner' of the thread, I just happened to be the one who opened it. Feel free to take it where you will.

Ranis
2007-05-02, 10:10 AM
Okay, here's a doosy. I got out of a relationship in November because I was tired of her having the mentality of a 15 year old when she was around me but wouldn't have anything to do with me when we were around friends. So, that was out.

In the past month, I began "dating" again. I put this in apostrophes because over the course of these past 3 months, I've asked classmates if they wanted to hang out sometime, then, after accepting, they stood me up for various reasons.

This has happened 5 times in a row.

I'm beginning to lose faith. I mean, I'm not a bad guy. I'm a virgin, I have morals and ethics, I'm not a pothead nor do I cut myself. Basically, when women are sitting around asking, "Where are all the good guys these days?," I was sitting in the corner silently raising my hand. I don't have a....spectacular outlook on myself, but then again I've never really had a reason to beleive otherwise, with my past relationship problems. (First one was a literal black magic witch, second a whore, third an overly zealous religious nut, fourth mentioned above.)

All of the girls I've asked to hang out were people whom I thought were of good moral caliber and crass; apparently looks can be deceiving, especially where women are involved. I'm not great at asking them in the first place, and when I do, it's never very confident-sounding because I often choke on my own words. Sigh.

Last Wednesday, I finally randomly asked this girl I've had my eye on at work for a while now, and we had lunch. During lunch, I found out what a catch this girl is. Extremely intelligent, gorgeous, and a gamer. Too good to be true, right? Yeah. We hung out on Sunday, during which time she told me she's seeing someone. Whee. I got no problems being friends with her, because my female friends department has now risen to a whopping 3. Soon, we may form a crowd.

So, moving on, I found out Sunday that I have to bring a date to my cousin's wedding, being one of his groomsmen and all. So, I absolutely must have a date by June 2nd, in time for his wedding. This added more stress, because where at first I was just hunting, I'm now on a 28-day clock. And the timer is ticking.

So I hopped on my AIM last night, and talked to an acquaintance from a Bridge class from last semester. (Bridging at my college is a way to assimilate incoming freshmans into college-the class meets 9-5 for 2 weeks before actual classes begin, then meets only every other Monday and the class ends in October. So, I got to know everyone in that class somewhat well.) I never had the courage to talk to this girl in Bridge, not really, because she is...I think the best terminology appropriate here is 'intimidatingly beautiful.' I talked to her, and told her about my predicament with my cousin's wedding. Asked her if she had any friends that were single (she is) and she said all of hers were taken; but why hadn't I asked her? "You're a caliber above the kind of woman that I'd consider a chance with," I told her.

She said, "You don't know me enough to make that claim, I think." This immediately perked my attention. Could this mean that this is actually a girl with morals and values? That actually likes talking to me? That is taking the same major I am? Too good to be true. So, I spent the rest of the night asking her questions. She answered them, some embarrassing, some not; I was trying to get to know her. That was the aim. The problem was, she wasn't asking me the same question back when I asked her one.

Today, when I see her I'm going to ask her if she's interested in getting to know me better as well. Love has to be a reflexive thing; I can't find out everything about her then ask her out, without her being curious to find things out about me. I know that'll end in proverbial bloodshed, and I don't want that. I'm tired of being hurt. I'm tired of being lied to and having dirt kicked in my face.

If she is interested, I'm going to ask her out to dinner+movie. See how we react. If I think we click, I'll ask her to my cousin's wedding. If not, I'm in the proverbial can once again.

What do you all think? If I do go back into the can, do you have any advice for me?

Thanks for reading my little rant :D <3

If anyone would like to talk to me directly about this, my AIM screen name is RumbleRanis411.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-02, 10:22 AM
You may be aware of this, but: the vast majority of people have "morals and values". Using the term to mean your specific morals and values, thereby (perhaps inadverdently) implying that those who don't share your opinions are some manner of moral degenerates, is hardly a proper thing to do.

Midnight Son
2007-05-02, 10:40 AM
Oh man...This isn't for me but...man...I get myself in bad situations.

I have two friends, right? A dude and a chick. Well, I was speaking with the chick yesterday and the dude came up...And she said that he reminded her of her little brother and she wasn't sure she could like him, etc...Which I take to mean there has been some thoughts on her part and therefore a possibility. There was speculation that he could maybe have a crush on her.

Kind of confirmed today. Now he's asking me about her (is it bad I kind of like her, does she like anyone, etc?) and I'm all "Crap." I don't want to get his hopes up high, but I don't want to dash them in case she DOES end up liking him. And I can't really bring it up with her because I already told him I wouldn't mention it...oO' Eeeeep...Not fun. --'I haven't been on long enough to really look at this thread recently, so I apologize that this is a few pages back, but had to respond due to me having been in the position of the guy in this little tale of woe. I've told this story before, but it's fitting here. I had a really good friend a while back and ended up falling in love with her after a couple years. When I told her this, she told me flat out that kissing me would feel like kissing her brother. I spent a year after that trying to convince her otherwise. Though I never pushed her, I did do things that no brother would ever do for a sister. It was all to no avail. She had me stuck as her best friend and I wasn't gonna budge from there. My point is, your friend saying she might not be able to like him as more than a friend indicates to me that she's less on the fence and more unsure how to deal with a romantic advance from him, since she only wants him for a friend. I could be wrong on this, but experience tells me that, once the "brother" comparison comes up, he's doomed.

Edit: @^Way to pick up on the important issue in his tale. I'm sure that'll fix the whole issue.[/sarcasm]

Dib
2007-05-02, 10:52 AM
gos I hate these kinds of threads... posting questions in them always makes me feel like a jerk cos I'm asking a probably quite common question while other people have real problems... oh well... I'll ask anyway...

There's a girl I like, but I don't know if she likes me back (by like I mean fancy)(We're friends)... I havenm't gotten any signs from her that she likes me (although I'm crap at reading signs)... but one of her friends said that she fancies me (not to me... but near me so I heard it) and also a couple of my friends said she seems like she's attracted to me... another part of the problem is age... without mentioning too much detail I'll just say that I'm a bit older than her... any ideas on what to do? cheers :smile:

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-02, 10:56 AM
You should inquire as to whether or not she really does "fancy" you, from the only person in the world who is guaranteed to know for sure.

Then suggest one of those strange modern outings known as "a date".

Syka
2007-05-02, 11:35 AM
Ranis, I don't have much advice to give you on the dating portion, as you seem to be knowing what to do there. It is a good idea for you to both get to know each other, rather than it just being you doing the work. I'm really sorry to hear that you've been stood up. What were the circumstances? As in, where you there and they never showed, or they had to cancel? I know the guy I'm dating and I had trouble getting our first date in because we were both so busy.

That being said, a 'date' to a wedding doesn't actually have to be a date- it can just be a friend. At the last wedding I went to, the people sitting next to us were just good friends. Is there a particular reason why you need to have a date?

That being said- never underestimate us women, and don't go all "Oh, you're too good for me, why are you with me, etc?" It drove me NUTS when my ex did that. I wasn't being forced to be with him, I made the CHOICE to be with him.

Dib, ask her out. Just go for it. I have a feeling the guy I'm dating now had no clue what my response would be when he asked me out. For one, when we met I was still in a relationship (I'm not sure if I'd talked to him enough for him to know), so my mind was still in the 'other guys are non-sexual entites'. Then my boyfriend broke up with me (poor guy happened to be on AIM at the time and got an earful about that...I still feel bad), so I wasn't exactly thinking about dating. But, he asked me out, I thought about it and was like "Ya know, why not? He's a cool cat."

Moral of the story- the only way you can really tell is by asking her herself, or asking her out. Maybe just ask her to something casual, like coffee.

Dib
2007-05-02, 11:48 AM
lol... coffee... not really her cup of coffee (I once swore to never make puns again... this is why)... I don't really want to just ask her... well actually I really do... but I'm worried it might ruin our friendship... she stopped talking to me for almost a week once when I got drunk and texted her saying she's hot... but I was drunk... I'm just worried that it'll be awkward if I said something...

Tsunomaru
2007-05-02, 11:53 AM
Awright, I guess I'll give this a shot. I'll tell you right now that I'm about to paint a comprehensive picture of my situation before I even get to any questions.

For my part: 21 years old college student, male, as critically relationship-tarded as, I'm sure, many of my nerd/geek/dork/[pick your label] colleagues here.

As far as she goes: A girl in one of my classes; I know her name (and thus her university email), but that's about it.

When the two of us are concerned: I'm at a loss. We sit near opposite corners of the classroom's table (it's sort of a round-table colloquium deal), and every so often I might catch her smiling at me. Added to that, a few times when we would pass one another by elsewhere on campus, she would send me a casual wave. The depth of our conversations have consisted essentially of her asking me if my geekdom extended to WoW, which some of her friends play, which I brazenly (and truthfully) denied, and, more recently, each of us describing the premise of our term papers for the class as we walked together to the next building over -- during the 2.5 hour class's 15 minute break -- to access a pop machine.

Now, I don't consider myself to conform to popular standards of being physically attractive -- while my avatar isn't intended to represent me, it would do a decent job of it. Beard included. So if there's any significant reason why she should be the least bit interested in me, it would probably because I'm probably the 2nd-4th most loquacious participant in the class, a classics colloquium in which I'm one of 3.5 classicists (out of a total of 8-9 students).

So. Questions. Based on this synopsis of our acquaintance, does it seem logical for me to assume she's interested? If it's as ambiguous to everyone else as it is to me, how would I go about asking her without coming off as weird? I know, I know, I shouldn't concern myself overmuch with what people think, but I've got few enough public virtues that I don't need gossip going around.

Dib
2007-05-02, 12:00 PM
@Tsunomaru: Just casually ask her if she'd want to go and have lunch or a drink some time... I suppose its worth a shot and doesn't make you seem like you want her... you just want to be friendly...

Ranis
2007-05-02, 12:12 PM
Ranis, I don't have much advice to give you on the dating portion, as you seem to be knowing what to do there. It is a good idea for you to both get to know each other, rather than it just being you doing the work. I'm really sorry to hear that you've been stood up. What were the circumstances? As in, where you there and they never showed, or they had to cancel? I know the guy I'm dating and I had trouble getting our first date in because we were both so busy.

That being said, a 'date' to a wedding doesn't actually have to be a date- it can just be a friend. At the last wedding I went to, the people sitting next to us were just good friends. Is there a particular reason why you need to have a date?

They're doing this deal at my cousin's wedding where the bride and groom dance first, then the groomsmen and their dates, then the brides maids and their dates come in and dance, then everyone else. So, it's a must. If I don't, the whole family will look down on me and think that I'm not as successful as my cousin. I know that's wrong, but it's the way my family is.

When I was stood up, they each made "excuses" for not being able to actually come, and when I suggested a later date, they all said something to the effect of "Maybe we need to just be friends," or, "I don't know, I'm probably too busy for us to meet on the same day." So it was quite obvious that they weren't interested in going in the first place.

Syka
2007-05-02, 12:22 PM
My good ole standby- coffee (or tea, or hot chocolate, or just some place that serves a variety of drinks)! It can possibly turn into a second date, or if nothing comes of it, it can be a just friends thing. (And Dib, by coffee, I meant drinks :P) There is a chance that she might like you. Make a point to hang out with her during the breaks, if you have the chance amble with her to her next class/car/whatever. I know one of the things that impressed me about the guy I'm dating is he would walk me to the building on campus I worked at after every class for the last 2 months of class (just previous to me break up), even though his car was always parked across campus where our class had been. *cue aww*

Ranis, that royally sucks. I'd say, if this girl doesn't pan out, just ask a good female friend to go with you. I know I'd do it for any of my guy friends, as long as you let them know it's just as friends. And those girls, I guess, didn't know how to handle the situation and thusly handled it badly. --'

Speaking of, you mentioned classicist. You would happen to be studying the Classics as in Greek and Rome would you? Sorry...Very off topic...but yah, I don't meet fellow Classics majors often.

Vampiric
2007-05-02, 12:37 PM
@Ranis: Yeah, I agree with Dib. The 15 mins you have that you mention would probably be a great time to ask her out for a coffee/go to movie, etc.

@Dib: Don't feel bad. Like we used to get told in my PSHE class, if you don't ask, you won't find out, and feeling bad doesn't make anything better.
Anyhoo, to your question. First, I don't advise getting drunk, but that's a different thread. Second, drunken texting can be bad, very bad. i.e. I know someone who spent half their credit, and they didn't remember how... Third, if you're sure that her friends weren't messing with you, then ask her how she feels, that's the best gauge of her feelings. Lastly, are you in college? Uni, Secondary School? Where is she?

Tsunomaru
2007-05-02, 12:56 PM
Speaking of, you mentioned classicist. You would happen to be studying the Classics as in Greek and Rome would you? Sorry...Very off topic...but yah, I don't meet fellow Classics majors often.

Ita. Freakin' ita. The class was a colloquium on Magical Transformations by way of Ovid's Metamorphoses and Apuleius' The Golden Ass.

But I must admit that the timing of this query was rather terrible: the last session of the semester was last night, with only the final remaining; due to the fact that we're likely to finish our finals -- and thus leave -- at different times, another coincidental meeting would be unlikely. There's always the chance that we'll both be there early, though.

Dib
2007-05-02, 12:57 PM
Actually it was my friends that told me... not hers... so I don't think its messing about... but I dont think they'd really know if she did like me or not either...

And we're both in Secondary School... though I'll be leaving for College in September... she'll be in Secondary school for another 3 years though... like I said, age difference...

averagejoe
2007-05-02, 01:03 PM
Actually it was my friends that told me... not hers... so I don't think its messing about... but I dont think they'd really know if she did like me or not either...

And we're both in Secondary School... though I'll be leaving for College in September... she'll be in Secondary school for another 3 years though... like I said, age difference...

One thing I've learned is that you can often trust your friends on these things; they have a certain objectivity that you might lack, not being the ones directly affected by such a relationship. In my experience, friends are right about these things more often than not.

Also, the age difference isn't so bad. It might seem like it now, just because there are so many rapid changes to your life, but three years really isn't a lot. The only akward thing is that period of time in which you're a legal adult but she isn't, and this is something I can't really comment on, I'm afraid.

Ranis
2007-05-02, 01:16 PM
Ranis, that royally sucks. I'd say, if this girl doesn't pan out, just ask a good female friend to go with you. I know I'd do it for any of my guy friends, as long as you let them know it's just as friends. And those girls, I guess, didn't know how to handle the situation and thusly handled it badly. --'

Speaking of, you mentioned classicist. You would happen to be studying the Classics as in Greek and Rome would you? Sorry...Very off topic...but yah, I don't meet fellow Classics majors often.

It may come to that, but I sincerely hope it doesn't. I'm the kind of person where physical contact comes with a bit of emotion behind it. Comes with being an extreme introvert all of my life. So, it would be a bit weird for me, and a bit emotionally strange for her if I asked one of my whopping 3 female friends. I was actually hoping this could turn out to be a very romantic thing, and it's also going to somewhat double as my pseudo-prom, because I never went to my high school prom. Comes with being a loser =/. Plus, you know how mushy women get at weddings, heh. Might turn out to be a great thing, given time. But, who knows. I'll give you more information as I talk to her tonight. Thanks, Syka.

And, was the Classics comment for me? I don't really know what the classics are, and if I quoted one, it was completely accidental. X_X

Syka
2007-05-02, 01:16 PM
Yah, friends are unfortunately a fairly good indicator.

I'm still denying that one guy from my Greek class likes me, even though a mutual friend has been pointing it out for months and the guy has recently been upping his tactics. Asking me to lunch, asking for advice on how to tell a girl you are interested in her and yet she is seeing someone (then procedeing to ask me to lunch the next day after I told him to do it in person), etc. --' The worst part is...He has asked me (hypothetically) before if I'd date him. I told him he is dateable (which is what he said he was really asking), but I wouldn't be able to date him because of ideological differences.

Unless your friends have some reason to want to pull one over on you. In which case, they're mean....oO

Ranis, I know what you mean. I actually didn't go to my prom either. And you'd be surprised how unmushy women can be at weddings. I'd only been dating the guy, maybe, a month when he asked me to go to his friends wedding with him. Admittedly, me and his friends date (who was just a friend), forced them to both do the Timewarp...But neither me nor the other girl did the bouque. I think the guys did do the garter, which was pretty funny. But...Depending on how you make it, weddings can just be fun and nothing too serious.

Tsunomaru, what about ita? oO *confused* That sounds like a fun class though. Maybe agree before the test to meet outside afterwards, to talk about it or something? That's what I did with a friend to day.

Dib
2007-05-02, 01:23 PM
Cheers :smile:... maybe I'll say something tommorrow... unless I chicken out like normal... or unless she isn't in... she was off sick today so she might not be in tommorrow either...

Arlanthe
2007-05-02, 01:55 PM
I agree with Vampiric about the getting drunk thing. Definitely not when texting, and abyssmally not when you are communicating with someone you fancy. Poor Dib, sounds like you're in a bind. I'm on the "tell her like it is" bandwagon. The age difference... my wife is four years older than me ;)

Tsunomaru- you're a fortunate man. Classics is like gold boullion (sp) in the romance world :) The Golden Ass eh? Nothing like discussing a beastiality rape scene with priests to break the ice... on second thought, maybe you shouldn't talk about The Golden Ass. Seriously though, dive in. I think your chances are good by the sound of it.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-02, 05:12 PM
I do classics at A-level... We're doing greek theatre and Thucidies and stuff.

I gave that girl a letter, now I just have to wait for her to turn me down.

Syka
2007-05-02, 05:23 PM
:P Don't be so pessimistic! You never know what the outcome will truly be.

As Monty Python says:

Always look on the bright side of life. Do do do do de do de do.

Just ignore the whole part about terminal breath, and you'll be good. ;)

Tsunomaru
2007-05-02, 05:56 PM
Tsunomaru, what about ita? oO *confused*

"ĭta , adv. [pronom. stem i-; cf. is; Sanscr. itthā; Zend, itha] , in the manner specified,
I.in this manner, in this wise, in such a way, so, thus....

C. In affirmations, esp. in replies, yes, it is so, just so, true"

WingedCheetah
2007-05-02, 06:10 PM
How does one casually date without the casual sex?

I've been 4 years since I've dated anyone besides my ex, and I've never quite gotten the hang of 'casual dating'. Most of my dates had a tendency to escalate into actual relationships, whether I wanted it to or not (I fall in love easy and fast and deep).

Right now I just want to meet people and hang out, but from previous experience, I'm afraid of it escalating and not being able to hold myself back. :-/

Glaivemaster
2007-05-03, 01:51 AM
How does one casually date without the casual sex?

I've been 4 years since I've dated anyone besides my ex, and I've never quite gotten the hang of 'casual dating'. Most of my dates had a tendency to escalate into actual relationships, whether I wanted it to or not (I fall in love easy and fast and deep).

Right now I just want to meet people and hang out, but from previous experience, I'm afraid of it escalating and not being able to hold myself back. :-/

So, you just want friends then? Sorry if I misunderstand you, but you want to 'date casually', without sex, which is just like hanging out with somebody really, isn't it? You don't need to date somebody to hang out with them

I probably am not getting what you mean though...

Arlanthe
2007-05-03, 02:34 AM
How does one casually date without the casual sex?

I've been 4 years since I've dated anyone besides my ex, and I've never quite gotten the hang of 'casual dating'. Most of my dates had a tendency to escalate into actual relationships, whether I wanted it to or not (I fall in love easy and fast and deep).

Right now I just want to meet people and hang out, but from previous experience, I'm afraid of it escalating and not being able to hold myself back. :-/


I disagree with the below, though there is a valid camp there and a lot of people agree. You can have any of the above:

a) a friendship- no romance, no sex
b) a relationship "X"- moderated romance (many boundaries), no sex
c) a relationship "Y"- moderated romance (many boundaries), sex included
d) a relationship "Z"- unmoderated romance (fewer boundaries), sex included

I think the key is being very up front and vocal about expectations and boundaries, and your casual person can choose to accept it, or move on. I feel that if you state clearly what boundaries and expectations are, and that person can mirror them back (I understand that you want, A, B, and C and not D, E, and F), then it could work.

Boundaries and expectations might include:

1) How much time you expect to be given, and how much to give (could limit the amount of time spent with that person). One date per week? Are Sundays through Thursdays off limits you-time?
2) Exclusivity- can either person "date" (hang out with, go to movies, etc.) others, and to what extent? Kissing exclusivity? Sex with others ok? Etc.
3) Physical contact- hugging allowed? Kissing? Etc.
4) Re-evaluation times- when will the relationship status be re-evlauated? Is it open ended (a legitimate request), re-evaluate in six months? Slowly begin reducing boundaries at so many months? Etc.
5) Will the possibility of a more serious long-term relationship exist in the future, or is it more or less permanently undecided until otherwise noted?

Once again, I think in the end it is talking to your "person" and clearly communicating your ... boundaries and expectations :) Then they have the option of continuing a relationship with you, or choosing to move on. You might find some people are more than happy to respect your wishes and continue to casually date you, and others might not share your expectations and move on, which is also fair enough for them. Sometimes people are just "at different points" in their lives.

An unfortunate third category is the kind of person who will cross those boundaries and try and pressure you into "giving in", which hopeully you will resist. People should respect your wishes, and you should respect yourself enough to keep them.

A semi-romantic relationship need not be sexual, and a sexual relationship need not be super serious. It's up to you to think about where you are in your life, and where your preferences and comfort zone lies. If someone really cares about you and respects you, they will also respect your wishes.

Driderman
2007-05-03, 05:22 AM
Why would you not want the casual sex???

Seriously though, it doesn't sound hard. Can't you just say: 'I'm not interested in casual sex' when you've gotten to know each other a bit?

Dib
2007-05-03, 05:32 AM
I do classics at A-level... We're doing greek theatre and Thucidies and stuff.

I gave that girl a letter, now I just have to wait for her to turn me down.

Just out of interest... how do you give someone a letter without having to confront the subject there and then and without it seeming supiscious?

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-03, 07:39 AM
Just out of interest... how do you give someone a letter without having to confront the subject there and then and without it seeming supiscious?

I got lucky enough to find a moment when she was alone. Sat down near her.
Asked her to read it for me, handed her the letter and discreetly left.

You know what. On second thoughts I don't think you should pay too much attention to my advice.

Ranis
2007-05-03, 08:15 AM
Since when is love or romance compared to on the same level with sex? Since when is sex needed for love? I think that it needs to be established before sex, definitely-because sex is supposed to be something emotional-it's supposed to express love, not define it.

Syka
2007-05-03, 08:15 AM
WingedCheetah, for the casual relationship deal, just tell them you don't want to have sex if the subject ever comes up. In my current relationship (which is non-exclusive as far as I am aware), we've gone exactly as far as I've been willing to go, and no further. He has respected me when I've said I wasn't ready for something, and he didn't try to persuade me otherwise. Granted, it's gotten a bit more serious than I'd like (emotionally), but that is normal I'd think.

With us, we mainly just hung out (I still had trouble claiming the friend card with people because we did go on dates, and hung out a lot). We didn't kiss until 2 months in and there was nothing close to 'making out' for about 5 months. We've been taking it slow, and it was a mostly unspoken thing. If the person tries pushing it, just tell them you don't want to go too fast. If they keep pushing it, you don't need that kind of person in your life.

Glaivemaster, I was in a relationship for 3.5 years with no sex (I want to wait). There are other things that seperate it. I don't cuddle with "just friends", I don't kiss "just friends, and I generally don't do one-on-one things with my male "just friends". There is an emotional variant with someone you date versus someone you are friends with. The little touches, looks and the like. The difference may be small, but it's there.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-03, 04:23 PM
Wingedcheetah... I think I get were your coming from. I've had two female freinds (one I went out with first, and this only kicked in when we were ex's) who I would always end up in bed with.
I've no idea how any of the times ever happend. It was just a case of we would be chilling out alone some where and an hour latter, we'd be lying naked in each others arms...
The only advice I can offer from my experince is try to avoid situations were you are alone with the people your dating (as in generically, not trying to imply that your seeing more than one person at a time nesacrily).

Skyla... I know you don't see yourself as owning this thread.... but I certainly thing of you as its honoured elder. So... would you (or any one else posting here) mind me putting up a page and a half of script A) because I want to see peoples perspective of the female charecter and if she 'works'. B) The scene is processing a lot of issues/thoughts I've had about my confusion and I'd like to see wether people think I should tell her this?

Sorry for the rambeling nature of the post, but I annoyed a couple of customers more than I should with bad phrasing at work today.

Syka
2007-05-03, 04:40 PM
Go for it. I'm honored to be an 'elder', even though as my birthday approaches it doesn't make me feel any younger. ;) Heck, I'm technically not even in my third decade yet (I'll be 20).

Eh, I figure it this way- more customers have annoyed me than me annoying them, so it all evens out. ;)

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-03, 04:49 PM
Hehehehe, I would agree with you Syka, but I deal with the prestige clients and their end users.... so I have to have duels of wits with people who are unarmed and I can only use a little finger. Fun! And don't worry about feeling old... I'm constantly reminded that of all the people of my grade... I'm atleast 3 years older than the lot, and I'm only 26!

Re: the script, the guy is called Ee (short for monkey, long story), who's meant to be a warrior-philospher-poet in the modern day (how I'd love to belive I could be seen). Sara is his girl freind, a marine biologist with a love of Dolphins and is working on her PHD in conservation.

The camera comes up on the inside of Ee’s room. The room should have a slightly geo-logical feel to it. Piles of books that seem to be slowly marching across his floor like Mesa. Posters of violent action films should be contrasted by posters of classic works of art, philosophers and nature scenes. The furniture should be functional, none of it from a matched style, but all of it seeming well used and practical in the space. There should be a double bed near the window, a desk, groaning under the weight of a solid, old sound system, huge numbers of CD’s and a slick looking PC, close to the bed, but not in the way. Near this is a waist height bookshelf, filled with the work of Nietzsche, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and other great works. On top of the book case and any where else there is space we find the clutter of an organised but busy mind. There are several ash trays, circus toys live neatly near the door, strange plush toys jostle with statues of alien gods and the relics of long forgotten fancy dress costumes on top of chests of draws and cupboards.
Stretched out on the bed is a young lady, tapping away at her laptop’s key board, the screen showing some text and images of marine life. The sun is playing over her back. She should be dressed in a way that is practical but looks stylish on her. Sitting in an office chair, beard firmly planted in a book missing from his book case is Ee. He has his typically ‘clean but scr/fluffy look’. There should be more than a passing resemblance between him and a bear.
Playing in the back ground is some Cypress Hill. The girl on the bed takes a sly look over her shoulder, see’s Ee engrossed in his book and pokes his knee with her foot so he slips and almost drops the book. He looks up at her slowly and glowers. She sticks her tongue out and he growls and bears teeth. She pulls back in mock fright and they both laugh, then return to what they were doing. A few moments latter, her foot snakes onto his knee and starts gently caressing him. There is a slight dip of the book and a curious twitch of an eye brow from Ee, this is answered with an ‘innocent’ glance over her shoulder.
The foots caressing moves up Ee’s thigh and he finally reaches an easy place to leave off, puts his book mark in, while putting the text down.
Stealthily he leans down, grabbing the foot at the last moment, brining it up to his lips to kiss. She gasps and rolls over breaking her foot free.

Ee: You wanted my attention?

Sara: Would you do something for me?

Ee: As much of what you ask me as I can do.

She bites her the corner of her lip and smiles. Cut to her again laid on her front, in just her vest top, the shoulder straps dropped low on her arm. She is smoking the last half of a joint. The gentle tones of Portishead drift through the scene. Ee is sat next to her on the bed massaging her back very thoroughly but tenderly. She pats one of his hand’s with the one holding the Jay. He takes it off of her and sits back a little as she rolls over.

Sara: Why are you so good to me?

Ee(smiling broadly) Because you are radiant with the will to power and I like to revel in that light.

Sara gives him a quizzical look then smiles.

Sara: Did you mean it when you said you’d do anything I asked of you?

Ee becomes comically serious and server.

Ee: My lady, if you wished it, I would bring you the still warm harts of your enemies.

Sara looks truly shocked at this, then says.

Sara: Only warm? I’d expect nothing less than still beating.

Ee drops all masks, game and pretence. He is, essentially, emotionally naked.

Ee: I would only offer that I thought I could bring you.

Sara looks a little coy as she slowly sits up and give’s him a peck on the cheek.

Sara: Do I ever tell you, you say some sweet things. Really, really odd, but sweet.

Ee almost blushes and looks away for a moment, before he leans into kiss her.

Ee: I’m glad you like them. I try to make sure each one will be especially pleasing to you.

Sara gives him a funny look and draws back a little.

Sara: Are you saying you don’t mean what you say to me?

Ee: What I’m saying is, I look for the most pleasing way to tell you how I feel, because I hope it will make you happy here. I do this because the joy you fill me with makes me want to keep you as near as I can.

Sara giggles a little like a school girl. Leaning in she says:

Sara: You like me.

As she finishes saying that, their lips brush for what starts out as a gentle kiss and turns into something tender yet fierce. They break apart and just sit quietly for a moment or two in each others company. Ee half caresses Sara’s shoulder while pulling one of her shoulder straps up. Ee brings the Jay up to his lips, pulls it away slightly and says.

Ee: I do, I really do.

He takes a deep draw, giving Sara a chance to look up at him slyly.

Sara: Good, ‘cause I like you to. I love you when you make me Thai food and cuddle up with blue planet.

Sara Gives Ee a cheeky wide grin. He takes another heavy drag, passes the jay to her, kisses her for head as he gets up.

Ee: Now that is easy to do.

End scene.

Thoughts people?

Driderman
2007-05-03, 04:54 PM
You could probably make money writing romance novels for geeks and freaks :smallbiggrin:

Syka
2007-05-03, 04:56 PM
First, I think she is believable and "works". I know I do that with the guys I'm dating, just randomly poke them or something else that will cause brief physical contact. Also, banter similar to that has happened with me.

As for what to tell the real girl...I'm not exactly sure. What parts of the scene, etc?

Well, I'm off to dinner. Unfortunately, I won't be on much for about the next three days due to company. I'm trusting you guys to not go completely offtopic. ;)

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-03, 04:57 PM
I preffer to write them for a hareem of inteligent, articulate, gracefull, healthy Nietzsch reading women. But thats just one of my dark little thoughts from the day poping out. Ladies... I know my writing of female charecters is largely poor... but what do you reckon?

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-03, 05:01 PM
Thank you very much Syka, Sara was a lot easier to write than some female charecters I've tried.
With regards to what relates to her? All of that scene and more. The series idea is centred around four or five guys. To try and avoid making it a 'man thing' I want to have strong relationships for most if not all the guys, so its more like a show about 6-8 people.
I will confess to a bit of an Ego trip here... I'm going to use it to work out some relationship issues in my head. Ee and Sara is meant to be about the emotional state this young lady causes me... puts me into...... makes me feel... blah.... how ever you wanna put it.

tis_tom
2007-05-03, 05:26 PM
Yeah see my problems with relationships are kind of the opposite to a lot of stuff I'm reading, but I dunno, I guess I'd like advice or even just re-assurance.

I'm gay, but apart from the fact I like other men I'm as 'straight acting' as they come. I'm not effeminate, I play football/enjoy sports, I drink beer, hang out with the lads, all my friends are a mixed, straight group, I go to regular pubs and clubs, I'm not a big fan of fashion, shopping, or Sarah Jessica Parker, but I'm completely comfortable and confident with my sexuality and my friends/family are also totally great with it. However I have one problem.

I've never met another gay man like me.

Every single guy I meet are effeminate or exclusively only in gay social circles or just sleep around with everyone, and while that's fine for them to be like that, that's not how I am. I'm only 18, so admittedly I've only been in the dating arena for about 3-4 years, but I've never met a gay man who I like enough to be in a relationship with simply because they're too gay for me! Or more, gay acting :-S

So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

Pyrian
2007-05-03, 05:29 PM
Sorry if I misunderstand you, but you want to 'date casually', without sex, which is just like hanging out with somebody really, isn't it?No, not so much. Well, that or you do some very interesting "hanging out".


I've had two female freinds (one I went out with first, and this only kicked in when we were ex's) who I would always end up in bed with.
I've no idea how any of the times ever happend. It was just a case of we would be chilling out alone some where and an hour latter, we'd be lying naked in each others arms...I wish you could tell me how that happens. It sure as heck never happens that easily to me. :smallyuk:

Tsunomaru
2007-05-03, 05:35 PM
There's just something I find infuriating about people who accidentally "get lucky". Maybe my AT field is just too strong, but that's a phenomenon I simply do not understand.

Rawr. :smallfurious:

Gnome Barbarian
2007-05-03, 05:46 PM
So I have never asked advice on the forum before but Im kinda stuck at the moment about what to do. My girlfriend is going to be graduating at the end of the summer with her masters. Thats the good news. She however wants to move to another part of the country and get a job. I'm not stopping her but I also will not move out of the New England area. I have tons of family and friends in the area and do not wish to have to start all over.

The question is what do you all think of long distance relationships? I personally don't think I would like it all that much. However, I won't get complaints about me spending a whole day playing D&D or playing magic for the night. I am an uberdork and as important as she is to me, my friends, my family and my 17th beguiler/mindbender that I started at level one 2 years ago are also very important to me as well. Actually just joking about the last part but you all get the picture.

I could not see myself in the type of life that I couldn't call my sister up and tell her I'm picking up my 4 year old nephew to hang out for the day. As well as not getting a call from my good friends to game. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Edit: He started off as a wizard but with the PHB2 I got to retool him.

Khantalas
2007-05-03, 06:10 PM
So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

Nope. You're not alone. I couldn't tell a friend was gay till he decided to found a College LGBT society. Of course, he could have been just bisexual, common courtesy ordered me not to ask.

Though he probably is gay - why else would his avatar say "I'm gay, that's why"?

Driderman
2007-05-03, 06:15 PM
So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

I suppose you're just unlucky. Of course, I've only met 4, 5, maybe 6 admittedly gay men but most of those were pretty 'straight acting' so to speak, except maybe for a few tells with some of them. I guess you just have to look the right places, I think perhaps that gay men who have 'straight' hobbies and social circles might not be as open with their sexuality due to prejudice and whatnot

The Prince of Cats
2007-05-03, 06:19 PM
I could not see myself in the type of life that I couldn't call my sister up and tell her I'm picking up my 4 year old nephew to hang out for the day. As well as not getting a call from my good friends to game. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
I think you both need to get your priorities straight. I do not mean this in a bad way, just that your relationship cannot survive if you don't both know precisely what you want from the other.

You have stated that your family and friends, those things that will not move with you, are more important than your current relationship. How does she feel about this? Does she feel that moving is more important than having you near her?

If neither of you wants a long-distance relationship but she wants to move and you do not, then somebody will have to compromise. I cannot imagine that it is an easy choice but it is one that must be addressed. My personal take on this is that you may not be compatible; she wants opportunities, while you seek stability and familiarity.
Entering into a long-distance relationship is not really an answer so much as a postponement. If you are ever to be together, you need to agree on where you want to be.

To be blunt, you need to either leave your family and familiarity behind, ask her to sacrifice her job-prospects or you must agree to part company. In your place, I would have to think long and hard and, if I found I truly loved her, I would sacrifice it all to be with her.


I think perhaps that gay men who have 'straight' hobbies and social circles might not be as open with their sexuality due to prejudice and whatnot
I would have to second that. I have known quite a few gay men who came across as straight and even I couldn't have told you they were gay until they 'came on' to me. There is this belief that there is a 'gay-day', even among the gay community, but it is not always easy to tell. I speak as a man who was semi-openly bisexual (I consider 'married' to be my current sexuality) and still missed a few...

Gnome Barbarian
2007-05-03, 06:31 PM
I think you both need to get your priorities straight. I do not mean this in a bad way, just that your relationship cannot survive if you don't both know precisely what you want from the other.

You have stated that your family and friends, those things that will not move with you, are more important than your current relationship. How does she feel about this? Does she feel that moving is more important than having you near her?

If neither of you wants a long-distance relationship but she wants to move and you do not, then somebody will have to compromise. I cannot imagine that it is an easy choice but it is one that must be addressed. My personal take on this is that you may not be compatible; she wants opportunities, while you seek stability and familiarity.
Entering into a long-distance relationship is not really an answer so much as a postponement. If you are ever to be together, you need to agree on where you want to be.

To be blunt, you need to either leave your family and familiarity behind, ask her to sacrifice her job-prospects or you must agree to part company. In your place, I would have to think long and hard and, if I found I truly loved her, I would sacrifice it all to be with her.

I do love her. And like I said Im willing to move within driving distance from eastern ct/ri. There are two big cities that are encompassed by this Boston and New York. She however does plan to move back to the area eventually just not sure when. She is talking about florida because it sunny and nice..with lots of beachs. I'm very much into the not sunny beachless area.

averagejoe
2007-05-03, 06:43 PM
So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

Definitely not. Of course, they are pretty hard to find, what with there being no social/visible signs of their gayness, unless asked directly. Of course, I've never gone very far into figuring out who's gay or what, so I wouldn't be much help in that respect.

Another piece of advice I can give is one I myself have been following since high school; don't worry about it overmuch. There will be time, and a lot of men in your life. You're still young, and you needn't be so worried about it at this point. There's no hurry.

Amotis
2007-05-03, 06:50 PM
Another piece of advice I can give is one I myself have been following since high school; don't worry about it overmuch. There will be time, and a lot of men in your life. You're still young, and you needn't be so worried about it at this point. There's no hurry.

'Tis good advice for any sexuality. You'll find a partner sooner or later. If you wanna rush it, sure, but it comes naturally anyway so why stress about it?

Ranis
2007-05-03, 11:56 PM
Some good news with my world:

I talked to her tonight, and she said she'd be happy to hang out, but we're going to have to wait a week or so because she's busy. This looks very good for me, and the best part was that she didn't seem at all shocked or embarrassed toward hanging out; quite the opposite, in fact.

Thought I'd share the good news, carry on n_n

Arlanthe
2007-05-04, 02:38 AM
Gnome Barbarian: I think most long distance relationships fall apart, unfortunately. Itís just that it is easier to grow apart when you live apart, especially if one person is in the same environment they were born and raised in, and the other moves about more. The bright side is that pre-established relationships tend to last longer long distance. However in the overwhelming majority of cases they canít last forever unless one person joins the other.

Iím 26 years old, and I moved to Belgium last September with my wife. I was born, raised, and lived in the same place in the U.S. my entire life until then, so the change was pretty radical. But it was also worth it, and I think I am gaining a lot of perspective in my life. Iím learning new things, seeing new places, and it was more worth it than I thought possible.

This may be kind of weird, but I think getting away from ones family can be a very good thing. Iím not talking about alienation- just differentiation. Your feelings of reservation are very valid, but in the end it will come down to a choice- your choice. You are free to choose.

Tis_tom: ďActing gayĒ is culture. It isnít genes or hormones or anything like that- itís a mixture of mirroring, signalling, and identifying as Iím sure you know. In much the same way people learn to speak Ebonics not because they are stupid or black, but because people around them speak that way.

You arenít alone- there are many gay people who donít follow the molds of that subculture. The problem is, and the point has already been made, sometimes itís easier to ďsignalĒ since being gay it is often hard to meet people. Youíre only 18, so you have a good long time to meet some nice even natured guys! I can understand why it would feel frustrating though.


Ranis: Congrats! Keep us posted.

Did I miss anyone?

Dib
2007-05-04, 04:15 AM
Cheers for all the help on this guys n gals... I'm gonna be asking her out within the next hour... so you know... :smalleek: wish me luck... I think I need more than I have for this... :eek:

Logic
2007-05-04, 04:31 AM
Cheers for all the help on this guys n gals... I'm gonna be asking her out within the next hour... so you know... :smalleek: wish me luck... I think I need more than I have for this... :eek:
Good luck. And if you are of the legal age, try imbibing small amounts of liquid courage to ensure that you do not back out.

Dib
2007-05-04, 04:39 AM
hmm... didn't really help me last time I had some... I decided not to drink (at least a lot less) after the incident I mentioned earlier... and besides, I'm in school and have no access to any... any good substitutes?

Logic
2007-05-04, 04:45 AM
Something that helps you relax. Asking someone out can be stressful, so, you need to be as calm and relaxed as possible, or else you will suffer one of the things I nearly said once:

"Mmm, boobies, date me!"

More in line with your question, chocolate can raise endorphens that can help you relax.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-04, 07:53 AM
I lost.

Probably made a fool of myself too...

Logic
2007-05-04, 07:59 AM
Don't feel sorry for yourself. If she can't understand that you were taking a leap, and doing something hard for you to actually compliment her, and she wasn't flattered, she is not worth your time.

But you probalby shouldn't take advice from me when it comes to asking out women. My record isn't exactly good when it comes to these things.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-05-04, 08:19 AM
I lost.

Probably made a fool of myself too...

She might have turned you down, but that's not a "loss"; yeah, it's a drag, but at least you know one person to stop wasting your time on.

Besides, you never know. In a few months, she might call you up and say, "Remember that letter you gave me...?" Or not.

And making a fool of yourself? Might as well get used to it, you're a human and will be doing it for the rest of your life.

Glaivemaster
2007-05-04, 10:57 AM
I agree with El Jaspero. Bad luck, I'm sure you can live with it though, and at least you now know what she thinks about a relationship of you. Think of it as freedom from at least one crush :smallwink:

Dib
2007-05-04, 11:32 AM
Dammit, dammit, dammit!!! *headdesk* !!!!!!!

I had the perfect opportunity!! She lead me over to an out of the way tree, but not too out of the way... she even told our friend who was walking with us to go wait over there (where everyone else was)... and I didn't do it!! DAMMIT!!! Now I gotta wait till Tuesday before I can even see her again (stupid Bank Holiday!!)!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack Squat
2007-05-04, 11:34 AM
Dammit, dammit, dammit!!! *headdesk* !!!!!!!

I had the perfect opportunity!! She lead me over to an out of the way tree, but not too out of the way... she even told our friend who was walking with us to go wait over there (where everyone else was)... and I didn't do it!! DAMMIT!!! Now I gotta wait till Tuesday before I can even see her again (stupid Bank Holiday!!)!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

did you chicken out, or did you not realize what she was trying to do?

if it's the first, just stop thinking about any consequences. if it's the second, can you call her?

Dib
2007-05-04, 11:39 AM
I sort of realised what she was doing... but its kinda blurry now... and I think I don't think it was all down to chickening out... I actually had no idea what to say...

Midnight Son
2007-05-04, 12:20 PM
I sort of realised what she was doing... but its kinda blurry now... and I think I don't think it was all down to chickening out... I actually had no idea what to say...
In caps to help you remember; "WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO OUT WITH ME THIS WEEKEND?"

Why do people need to complicate this? It's a first date. You don't need a plan, All you need is a question. The plan can come later when you've had a chance to come down off the high caused by the question.

Ranis
2007-05-04, 12:22 PM
I sort of realised what she was doing... but its kinda blurry now... and I think I don't think it was all down to chickening out... I actually had no idea what to say...

The thing I always remember is that if I'm confident about asking, and I ask almost casually, then she'll be a lot less concerned with saying "yes." Just make sure that you're not visibly shaking; the few moments before you do it, take a few deep, deep breaths, and close your eyes. Try to slow your heartbeat down. Breathe. Relax your posture. Lean against something if you can.

Everything will work, trust me. :D

Dib
2007-05-04, 01:51 PM
oh... yes... I see what's happening here... its the whole 'when dating cultures collide' thing... lol...

I'm gonna say culture cos I'm not really sure how else to put it... its effectively what you do where I live in secondary school... You dont technically need to ask someone if they wanna meet up at the weekend... you just ask them out as in 'Will you go out with me?' which means will you be my bf/gf? so you know... thats why its difficult... there's no inbetween... its just that one question...

EDIT: damn slow internet connection messing things up! cheers guys... I'll try out Ranis' idea and also whoever mentioned chocolate as well :smile:

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-04, 05:37 PM
She might have turned you down, but that's not a "loss"; yeah, it's a drag, but at least you know one person to stop wasting your time on.

Besides, you never know. In a few months, she might call you up and say, "Remember that letter you gave me...?" Or not.

And making a fool of yourself? Might as well get used to it, you're a human and will be doing it for the rest of your life.

She didn't turn me down. She got her dad to tell the school to tell me not to bother her again.

I should be more understanding since it's too close to the exams I guess.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-05-04, 05:39 PM
She didn't turn me down. She got her dad to tell the school to tell me not to bother her again.

I should be more understanding since it's too close to the exams I guess.

Oof. Well, I think my advice holds the same, though with less of that "maybe she'll call you at some point" part. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on.

Vonriel
2007-05-04, 06:04 PM
You're sure she was the one who had her dad do it? Given the way my stepfather acts, I would not be surprised at all to hear he did the same to someone who was wanting to date my little sister. If she did.. well, yeah, you're only option is to just drop it and move on. If it was her dad, you still have to do the same, but at least you can feel better knowing that it was a highly overprotective father who was responsible.

Midnight Son
2007-05-04, 07:05 PM
oh... yes... I see what's happening here... its the whole 'when dating cultures collide' thing... lol...

I'm gonna say culture cos I'm not really sure how else to put it... its effectively what you do where I live in secondary school... You dont technically need to ask someone if they wanna meet up at the weekend... you just ask them out as in 'Will you go out with me?' which means will you be my bf/gf? so you know... thats why its difficult... there's no inbetween... its just that one question...

EDIT: damn slow internet connection messing things up! cheers guys... I'll try out Ranis' idea and also whoever mentioned chocolate as well :smile:

Dude, if it's not a first date, what's the effin problem? You like her. You know she likes you. Again, it comes down to a question. If you're not sure what to say, see your own post. It's as easy as, "Will you go out with me?"

Relationships are complicated, folks. Gettin' into them?...not so much.

Zeb The Troll
2007-05-04, 08:45 PM
Relationships are complicated, folks. Gettin' into them?...not so much.I must be the exception that proves the rule then. My last relationship lasted seven years. I haven't had so much as a second date in the three since it ended, amicably, I might add.

Midnight Son
2007-05-05, 12:21 AM
I must be the exception that proves the rule then. My last relationship lasted seven years. I haven't had so much as a second date in the three since it ended, amicably, I might add.How many times have you asked the question I mentioned above. I'm not saying I've been stellar at it myself in recent years, but I did just fine for myself in my twenties. All it takes is asking that one question. If she says no, then what are you out? If she says yes, then you've gained. As my mother used to say, "You'll never catch any fish if your hook's not in the water." Of course, she always said it while we were out fishing and caught us messing around instead of fishing, but the point's still valid.

Edit: Just noticed you mentioned second dates. I'm talkin' about first ones. The second one is up to you, sorry. That's where the "relationships are complicated" part comes in.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 01:09 AM
Dib, if it helps any.... I've found my 'asking out technique' has improved greatly since I started thinking of it as akin to taking off a plaster. There's an initila moment of doubt, the thought that maybe the situation will work itself out to your benefit on its own. Then a couple of seconds discomfort as you start followed by the relief of knowing an anwser is imminent.

I'm not saying its massively improved my success with getting into relationships... but thats partly because I have a set of standards about how I need to feel about them and veiw them, due to some really bad choices made in the past. And the last young lady who said yes I've seen once in the two months after, kept in resonable text contact with and now she's in parts, foreign for about 10 weeks.

In dating, victory is a sliding scale, and you need to work out how far your willing to slide.

Zeb The Troll
2007-05-05, 01:17 AM
Edit: Just noticed you mentioned second dates. I'm talkin' about first ones. The second one is up to you, sorry. That's where the "relationships are complicated" part comes in.Yeah, getting the date isn't the same as getting into a relationship. Once I'm in a relationship, I do okay.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 01:53 AM
Heavy stuff guys, I can't even get a girlfriend. Havn't really tried though. I'm only fifteen though, so plenty of time ay?

Alarra
2007-05-05, 01:54 AM
Maybe it's cause I'm a girl, but i find getting into a relationship is a piece of cake.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 01:55 AM
not many chicks in the seventh dimension though, just a boys high school and a comic book shop. Just my luck.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 01:57 AM
Alara, your lucky. I have nil contact with the female of the species. All I have is my drama class, and no one would go out with me there. At least I think?

Zeb The Troll
2007-05-05, 02:21 AM
Maybe it's cause I'm a girl, but i find getting into a relationship is a piece of cake.I'm pretty sure that's true. Even in this thread, the majority of the men are looking for help getting started while most of the women are looking for help with their existing relationship. It's not proof positive, but it does support the notion.

13_CBS
2007-05-05, 02:27 AM
Hmm, I have a serious question for you people here...

I've been dating this girl from basically the beginning of this school year (which is about 8-9 months) and we quite close to one another even before then.

However, today she told me "I'm calling no contact" (I had given her a light peck on the cheek earlier that morning and had gotten a negative reaction) after asking me, "we're leaving each other next year [and probably never see each other again], right?" This was after me asking her why she gave me a negative reaction that morning.

Has she just given me the "let's just be friends" speech?

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 02:42 AM
yeah, I think she's just trying to save herself from heart break, I'm sure she's messed up about it to.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 02:45 AM
OK, my turn.

I have very little contact with girls and it's starting to get me down that everyone else has dated. I'm only fifteen and I know that it doesn't really matter, but I'd like to try it out. Any tips?

Logic
2007-05-05, 03:48 AM
I will be the world's biggest hypocrite, since I find myself incapable of following my own advice.

Be confidant, not arrogant.
Be honest, but not painfully so.
Be open to communication, not stubborn.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 04:05 AM
Vuzzmop, the best advice I've EVER been given on dating (or rather, how to get one) was by a female freind. Go to places you enjoy. If you don't like clubbing, hate coffee shops and can't STAND fashion, night clubs, coffee shops and clothe's shops are REALLY bad places to look for a date because even if she says yes, the chance's you'll have a lot in common are SLIM.

As for the odd 'guys looking to get into relationships, girls looking for advice on their relationships' thing.... I know for me a large part of it is where I live. Oxfordshire (the original, UK one) has a much higher male to femal population ratio. I think a big part of this is to do with the uni and the local research facilities, which tend to have a very male presence in the city (talking to freinds at uni, its clear most of their lecturers are men, same goes for all the labs, pretty much all you seem of them is men in white coats).
There fore single women are a 'rare commoditity' with out trying to be to sexist, and tend to have a number of men they can pick and choose from.
It would be interesting to hear from women who live in places where they out number the men.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 04:06 AM
Thanks man, good tips.

Also, anyone wanting to share their feelings, go to my thread, "vuzzmop is lonely, how are you feeling?" and vent to your hearts content

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 04:09 AM
Hey Bayushi, they say that NZ is going through a man drought, if your looking for eligible bachalorettes, look no further.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 04:13 AM
Is there anyone else in this thread from the land of the long white cloud? I'd like to know if there is anyone in my timezone.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 04:16 AM
Vuzz.... thank you for the tip. Unfourtantly my problem isn't so much in finding the lady.... as in having found her, can I be the brave, dashing warrior-philospher worthy of her hand. Do I have strength of will enough to help move the world to match her vision of it.
I do want to got to NZ, mainly because its the home of some cool circy skills.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 04:20 AM
"circy"? do you mean circus?

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 04:23 AM
Your lucky to have a girlfriend worthy of said reality changing and world moving, good luck with that.

Glaivemaster
2007-05-05, 05:16 AM
I hate to pick you up on this Vuzzmop, but it's starting to bug me. If you have something more to say, and nobody else has posted since you, you can edit your post to include it, instead of making multiple posts in a row

As for finding girls: At 15, even if you think it's worth getting a girl, you still have plenty of time. Don't worry about it, you'll find someone

13_CBS
2007-05-05, 05:27 AM
I appreciate Vuzzmop's advice, but will no one else advise me as well?

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 05:27 AM
thanks for both the tips glaivebro, I'm kinda new to this forum thing.

Also, I agree with you, 15 is a bit young, but it just bugs me that everyone else around me has dated at least once, you know?

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 05:29 AM
Everyone with an opinion should help out 13 cbs, always time for a friend in need right?

also, how do I edit posts?

thank you, hey look, I did it!

13_CBS
2007-05-05, 05:30 AM
The edit button is on the bottom right hand side of your message that is posted, next to the things like Quote and stuff.

Vuzzmop
2007-05-05, 05:40 AM
I'm going to bed now, it's 10:50 pm over here

Good night

Vampiric
2007-05-05, 05:42 AM
@Vuzzmop: Where's the land of the long white cloud? I'm in the UK. I got bugged at Secondary School that almost everyone in my year had dated, but not me (although I was perhaps the least popular guy in my year). Then, not one week into college, I found the girl who I am with now, who I have been with 1 year 8 months. Like Guinness - 'Good things come to those who wait' (even if they are impatient.)

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 07:40 AM
Vuzz, she's not my girl friend... were not even really seeing each other... she's just some one amazing I've had the fortune to meet.

Vamp, *high 5* from one 'das uber geek' at secondary school to another, nice one Bru'va... I said nice one Bru'va. Have you had the same enjoyable experince I had recently when I realised that the nice people from my year have done well, the a holes have sayed stuck at 15 in their mentality and every one else is about as lost as you are?

BTW vamp A) what part of our fair land are you from? I'm Oxford based. B) have you heard the Lancashire Hotpots yet? V good, if only for 'Lancashire DJ'.

darkblade
2007-05-05, 07:54 AM
Right now I've got myself in a situation that despite many a protest from people in th real world seems utterly pointless to contiune. I was hoping for some reasonably unbiased opions. I'm a 16 year old guy in the middle of nowhere Canada. I recently developed feelings for this girl who I have been good friends with for the better part of the two years I've known her. I asked her out a few months ago to no actual response, just an akward bus ride home and going back to being friends the next day. An almost friend of mine has also been pursuing her solely for her body (he is rapidly losing his friend satus). Right now she is in France on exchange and I was hoping my feelings would die down but they only got stronger. I know she doesn't see me as anything more than a friend and likely never will but I can't bring myself to give up and move on. Is this pointless?

Okay well she's back this Wednesday last call for any possible advice thanks.
(If you already gave me advice please refrian from repeing it. It has been noted and considered carefully. I just want as many veiws as possible so I have lots of people to blame if I do something stupid more options to mentally debate.)

Vampiric
2007-05-05, 07:54 AM
From Hampshire. Yeah, pretty much, most of the hot girls became emo/chav and everyone else degraded themselves or got a lot better. Lancashire Hotpots is a band, right? No, I haven't I'm afraid. Anyhoo. *drags thread back on track*

@Darkblade: I would say that you should talk to her about the day you've mentioned to us, and say that your feelings have got stronger when you thought they would go away. Explain it clearly, try not to act nervous, even if you are (don't fidget, deep breaths, you know the drill.). If you do, then say you understand if she doesn't want to go out with you, but you would like her to seriously consider it. If she says no, then say you would like to stay close friends, because you care for her. If that's true, obviously. If it's not, then don't lie. Lying, in my experience (of my friends' relationships, because I had none of my own), is the quickest way to lose a friend, never mind someone you might be in love with...

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 08:12 AM
I'd tweak Vamps advise EVER so slightly, if thats alright with you Vamp? *Cheeks there is no swarm of demon bats heading his way* Right. I'd try to arrange to mee up with her, chill out for an evening and if you find that actually being around her you feel the same, that there is no discrepancies, etc in your idealised memories and how she actually acts..... tell her at the end of the evening you care for her deeply. Don't ask her out, don't say '... but you don't dig me, so I'll try real hard to be just freinds with you'.... judge what you say after that based on her responces. A

Also... something worth contemplating, if she really isn't interested in you, consider if you can stand to be as close a freind to her as you are/were. I've tried to be close freinds with some ex's and it's never been fun, easy or like you would imagine. It's often to fresh and raw to proccess shortly after the event. Let your appetite come back and then see whats going on.

Ranis
2007-05-05, 08:50 AM
Hmm, I have a serious question for you people here...

I've been dating this girl from basically the beginning of this school year (which is about 8-9 months) and we quite close to one another even before then.

However, today she told me "I'm calling no contact" (I had given her a light peck on the cheek earlier that morning and had gotten a negative reaction) after asking me, "we're leaving each other next year [and probably never see each other again], right?" This was after me asking her why she gave me a negative reaction that morning.

Has she just given me the "let's just be friends" speech?

You've dated a girl for 8 months and never touched her? How do you do it, man? I mean, was there no hugging going on? Good lord.

Anyway, I think it's a bit strange that she would be with you at all if she thinks the 'relationship' is doomed next year. Can you explain things a bit more?

Vonriel
2007-05-05, 09:32 AM
13_CBS, it sounds like she may be dating you just to be able to say she's dating someone. I don't know if this is actually the case, but I'd at least sit down and talk with her to make sure. It could also be that she really likes you, but doesn't want to grow too attached if she (I'm assuming, here) doesn't think she'll be seeing you again once you two go off to college. Again, this is just an assumption. Anyway, it'd probably be best if you did talk this over with her to make sure.

Darkblade, I don't believe I've said anything about this yet, so here's my take on it. I guess it's pretty much what everyone else has said, with a bit thrown in from my own experience. First off, you have to be honest with her. Like Vampiric said, let her know how you feel about her in no uncertain terms. Once that's out, gauge her response. I once was told, expect the worst but hope for the best. That's going to be true here, too: expect her to turn you down, and you won't be as disappointed when things turn out badly. It won't be fun, certainly, but it won't be as bad as if you had told her while thinking she'd say she reciprocated the feelings. And ask her for a reason, if she says no. It won't help you if it's just left at 'I just don't want to' or 'I can't see myself with you', for many reasons that I won't get into here. I know when something similar happened to me, it really helped to know why, and to be able to say so to myself every time I thought about this person. My last bit of advice, think hard before you answer whether or not you can stay her friend. Remember, you're still being honest with her. If you know that you'll let your feelings for her get in the way of whatever support you could give her as a friend, tell her so. And don't go into the friendship thinking that maybe someday she'll change her mind, because chances are good she won't. That last bit comes from knowing a guy who liked a girl, was turned down, then proceeded to be her friend for years, all the time trying to get her to change her mind. She didn't, and he wound up spending a ton of money on her during the process. So anyway, that's my take on the matter. Good luck, man.

Vampiric
2007-05-05, 10:07 AM
Hey, my bats are on holiday. no worries. It is, after all, an advice thread, and variations on each others thoughts are basically what happens anyway. Glad you wanted to use it!

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-05, 10:15 AM
I'm glad of that. Our old cat managed to bag a few bat's in her time, not so sure my sis's little mad moggy's upto the job.

13_CBS have you actually talked to your other half about what you want to do relationshipwise next year? Only reason I ask is I've seen a couple of situations where both parties didn't talk about it, assuming the other felt almost exactly the same.... it came to the last few months and when they finally did talk....... it wasn't pretty.

13_CBS
2007-05-05, 04:17 PM
Hmm...I did talk to her today, and indeed we are to stay friends.

It seems like Vonriel was right: she felt that the relationship would inevitably come to an end, so she decided to call it quits before it turned into a tearfest. She's the antisocial, quiet and nerdy type, so I'm 99% sure she didn't date me for social reasons.

Why was she with me at all in the first place? Good question. As far as I know, this was her first relationship ('twas the same for me too), so perhaps she didn't think about its inevitable ending when we first started dating; I certainly didn't.

Oh, and we did touch each other, but it was mostly goodbye hugs ("Have fun in your next class!" / "See you tomorrow!"). Neither of us are particularly intimate people (that is, until I stepped it up a notch with the peck on the cheek; she told me later that this surprised her). So other than the beforementioned hugging, we didn't do much else in terms of intimacy (holding hands, kissing, etc. In terms of "relationship baseball", I don't think I ever got to first base).

She told me that the breakup was neither of our faults, and that I treated her extremely well during the year. I find this both relieving and disheartening at the same time; relieving because she doesn't hate me, disheartening because it meant that had we continued the relationship, we could have had so much more.

Ah well. Perhaps she'll get a new boyfriend at the summer camp she's going to (God knows the hormones there run wild, despite it being a physics camp for "nerds" XD). She deserves a better one anyway.

WingedCheetah
2007-05-05, 10:17 PM
thanks for the advice :-)

I had a date a couple weeks ago and besides the introductory handshake (we'd met online, originally) there was no contact. I was afraid that if I brushed his hand or touched his shoulder or something I'd ... yeah. that and when we were talking about where to meet, he suggested his house, which kind of unnerved me.

I know it's not a matter of 'where' to meet men, they're everywhere! (escpecially at 24 hour grocery stores at midnight, I've discovered) it's more what to do once you've got their attention that I was stymied.

Thanks again :-)

Ranis
2007-05-05, 10:23 PM
Bad news on my side. The girl I talked to told me that she's got a 'thing' with one of her mates at work.

So, that leaves me up chocolate creek without a Popsicle stick. Anyone got any helpful advice?

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-05-05, 11:13 PM
Bad news on my side. The girl I talked to told me that she's got a 'thing' with one of her mates at work.

So, that leaves me up chocolate creek without a Popsicle stick. Anyone got any helpful advice?


Ouch. Burned with an iron heated by love. Let me tell you, got a lot of those marks. Here is my advice:

1. Wake up tomorrow.
2. Work hard.
3. Have a great time with your friends.
4. Sleep.
5. Repeat.

It's gonna heal up just fine like that. :smallbiggrin:


Anyway, I've got my own little woe. I like this girl. Known her for... 6 years now? I'm finally going to tell her I like her tomorrow. My question is:

Does this action feel like a suicide mission to everyone? Or is it just me?

Vuzzmop
2007-05-06, 12:21 AM
No way man, tell her how you feel, and it'll all be sweet as, do you think she has suspicions, it might help, trust me.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-06, 01:46 AM
Faulkner, if it helps at all..... the mental image I always try and fix in my mind is of the viking berzerker of love, standing in front of a huge hostile force abd leaping headlong into them, both weapons going.
Why that image? Because usually you have NO idea wether telling a girl you like her is going to work out well for you, but confidence and not caring if she says no can ususally improve your chances.

WingedCheetah, that guy sounds a little creepy, esp if his house was one of the first choices for a meet. As for what to do once you've got a guys attention, are you meaning on the date, or to do as a date?

Vampiric
2007-05-06, 05:07 AM
Faulkner, if anything, you should have said it ages ago! 6 years?! jeez. That is some period of time to wait. But yeah, go for it!

ArchiviesTheQua
2007-05-06, 07:45 AM
Absolutly go for it, Fualkner. Since she's known you for 6 years, I highly doubt anything will go bad. If it doesn't work out, you may think you'll be on a suicide mission, but you'll get over it soon. Win:Win.
Best of luck!

WingedCheetah
2007-05-06, 08:46 AM
WingedCheetah, that guy sounds a little creepy, esp if his house was one of the first choices for a meet. As for what to do once you've got a guys attention, are you meaning on the date, or to do as a date?

On the date :-) I can be pretty creative about what to do :-D

Anyone into dream analysis? I dreamt I was hanging out with a couple guys and a girl and at one point the guys ended up naked. There were no sexual overtones, we were all just hanging out, and they both just happened to suddenly have no clothes on. Anyone know what that could possibly mean??? I feel like it has something to do with me and relationships, my guess would be that guys feel comfortable around me, but I'd like a second opinoin, and my dream analysis book doesn't touch on other people being nude.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-05-06, 08:57 AM
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm definetly going to tell her. We grew up together, so that's why I've known her so long and I only started getting feelings recently. Hopefully we will be able to stay friends if she doesn't feel the same way.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-06, 10:41 AM
Fualkner, I'd kinda guessed that was the case, but didn't want to make an assumption (I'm fairly sure I'm an ass most of the time, but you seem like a nice enough guy, arf arf, that joke is so lame, I know). In that case.. I might even suggest presenting it as just part of your freindly chatting. Just a whole case of 'You know were mates? Well, I think you kick ass, like, more than a friend'. Don't make a big deal of it, just let her know how you feel... almost as if you were coming to her with a problem.

Cheetah, on the date? Thats REALLY easy. Have fun. Simple as. Have a clear line of things you won't do, and if its a guy you've met on-line I'd recomend having a trusted freind know exactly what your plans are and have pre-arranged contact times that if you miss, send up a red flag with them.

I know that advise is probably pretty redundant, but I used to be the contact person for one of my ex's after we broke up (before I managed to get out of the weird headspace she put me in), and its the one time I almost didn't out of apathy that she needed it. Luckly the guy was just boring her.... but still.

Vampiric
2007-05-06, 02:01 PM
@WC: I know dreams are the unconscious part of our minds, but I don't think that it's worth trying to interpret them. There are so many ways of doing it. You could find so many things. Just don't spend money on it!. Anyhoo, /rant. I think that you need to decide if you are comfortable with guys/relationships, whatever. You're subconscious mind affects some decisions you make, but shouldn't be making them. It is, after all, the subconscious.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-06, 02:28 PM
Alara, your lucky. I have nil contact with the female of the species. All I have is my drama class, and no one would go out with me there. At least I think?

Hey, I thought that at the time when I was in a drama class. Looking back on things I'm not so sure.

I turned down a lot of girls. But when they're asking to marry you then it's usually safe to assume they're joking.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-07, 02:31 AM
Vuzz, there's a question you don't seem to have thought about with regards to your drama group..... is there any one there YOU would like to date? It doesn't matter wether you think they are nesacrily into you, that only matters if YOU like THEM.

13_CBS
2007-05-08, 06:56 PM
Well, it turns out that the girl I thought was dating actually wasn't/ didn't really want to.

A total miscommunication happened.

It started like this:

End of sophmore year (high school). I like this girl, I find out that she likes me. We've both very much enjoyed each others' company during that year, so the prospect of a girl liking me back didn't seem too far off. So I told her that I liked her, and then she said she liked me too. I think it was in that moment that subconciously, I either assumed that we were now "going out" or was in such euphoria that the girl liked me back that I just hung out with her more.

Notice that I never asked her officially to be my girlfriend. Baaaaad mistake.

Fast forward to this year; we hang out a lot, enjoy each othes' company some more, go out on 1 date (I had no driving license at the time, so I wanted to wait until I got it till I seriously asked her out for dates, etc), I asked her to prom, all that happy fun good stuff. Throughout this whole period I was assuming that we were going out. Neither of us really announced it; I for one simply didn't care about our "official" status (I thought, "I like her and she likes me, so to hell with our official classification").

Then comes this weekend, where she gives me the "let's just be friends" speech. Yowch.

I eventually found out that she apparently wasn't all that interested in dating. When I decided to take a tentative step forward in our relationship after the days of prom, she decided to nip the bud, if you will, with the "friends" speech. So yeah, the girl I thought was dating wasn't really interested/ didn't think we were, mostly because I didn't officially ask her. Granted, I would have liked it if she asked me about the issue instead of saying nothing about it until this weekend, but my fault for not asking.

Yeah...I tried for an entire year to be the best boyfriend I could possibly be, and then found out that I actually technically wasn't a boyfriend.

Oh, and the fruits of my labors? The "clingy" label (turns out that I hung out with her at school TOO often, yet she never bothered to tell me to back off...O_o) and a whole year gone down the drain.

Yay.

Bayushi Koji
2007-05-09, 01:09 AM
13_CBS... A whole year has go down the drain, only if you don't learn from this experince. Work out what you did wrong, to your mind, look for how you could do better next time, learn from it all. Blah.... will probably edit when awake.

averagejoe
2007-05-09, 01:12 AM
Yeah, "a year down the drain" is a bit dramatic. It sounds like you had fun at the time, and that's what's important. It isn't like it's a race to try to get into a serious relationship as soon as you can.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-09, 02:41 AM
You know, I think that a lot of these problems would get better if the relevant "other people" were shown this thread.

Dib
2007-05-09, 04:19 AM
lol... I did it again... perfect opportunity... not a word...

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2007-05-09, 05:56 AM
lol... I did it again... perfect opportunity... not a word...

Well, don't beat yourself up about it. Maybe there's an actual reason you're holding back, maybe even beyond basic nervousness. Be wary of pinning all your hopes and dreams on one person, it can both frustrate you and blind you to other opportunities.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-09, 06:03 AM
[/QUOTE]
Well, don't beat yourself up about it.he will, but yeah... good advice
Maybe there's an actual reason you're holding back, maybe even beyond basic nervousness. I doubt it... I really do... If especially if he's thinking "what if this" and "What if that" and that it should be some big, perfect moment with a violinist and rose petals falling from the sky... I think he's just nervous.
Be wary of pinning all your hopes and dreams on one person, it can both frustrate you and blind you to other opportunities.

This is the most important thing. Doesn't mean that you should stop trying though.