Spell-Slinger 5e

[cavalieredraghi]

I have attempted to recreate the lovely Jormengand's SpellSlinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?327549-The-Spellslinger-3-P-base-class-PEACH) in 5e. I would love feedback, and help to optimize this wonderful creation.



Lvl
Prof.
Description
Cantrips known
Spells known
Spell Slots
Spell level


1st
+2
Spellslinging, Spellcasting
4
2
2
1st


2nd
+2
Bonding
4
3
2
1st


3rd
+2
Specialist, Advanced Learning
4
4
2
2nd


4th
+2
ability score increase
5
5
3
2nd


5th
+3
+1 enchantment
5
6
3
3rd


6th
+3
Specialist Improvement
5
7
3
3rd


7th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
5
8
4
4th


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
5
9
4
4th


9th
+4
Specialist Improvment
5
10
4
5th


10th
+4
+2 Enhancement Bonus.
6
10
4
5th


11th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
6
11
5
5th


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
6
11
5
5th


13th
+5
Blood Sweat and Tears (7th)
6
12
5
5th


14th
+5
Specialist Improvement
6
12
5
5th


15th
+5
Blood Sweat and Tears (8th)
6
13
5
5th


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
6
13
6
5th


17th
+6
Blood Sweat and Tears (9th)+3 Enchancement Bonus
6
14
6
5th


18th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
6
14
6
5th


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvment
6
15
6
5th


20th
+6
Adrenaline Rush Specialist Improvement
6
15
6
5th




Health and Hit Dice:
at level 1 your Hit Points are 8 Plus your Constitution Modifier, Your Hit Die is a D8
Proficiency:
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
Skills Choose 3: Arcana, Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Survival, Stealth, Deception.
Armor: Light
Weapons: All Simple weapons, Whip, Blow Gun, Spell-Slingers
Starting wealth Same as Warlock
Starting Equipment if you choose to go with background equipment
(a) whip or (b) one simple weapon
Spellslingers (Pistol and Rifle)
(a) Dungeoneer's pack or (b) Explorer's pack
Leather armor, and two daggers


Class Features:

Spell-Slinging: As a Spell-Slinger you have learned to create and maintain two different types of weapons. Either a revolver, that has a 6 shot clip, or a 8 shot revolving clip, rifle. These weapons are your tools, and arcane implements they can act as Arcane focus as well, to cast your magic through. Each bullet is a spell that you have loaded into the gun. These are magically created bullets, that are made your last short or long rest. It takes a full round of concentration to load your gun when it is empty. if you are hit during that time, you must make a Intelligence Saving throw, the damage taken is the DC, to keep reloading your gun if you fail, you drop all your rounds and must spend a movement action to pick them up. The range of your Guns supersedes the range of your spells. The range of the revolver, is 120 ft for a ranged Spell, while touch spells from this gun become 30 ft. the range of the Rifle is 240 ft, and 60 ft for touch spells. For spells that have an AoE or Area of Effect, the spell overrides the range restrictions of the gun.
ex. the cone effect of a burning Hands would be a cone of the range of the spell rather then the range of the gun.
Spellcasting: You may only choose spells from the wizard's Spell list that are of the Evocation school. All your spell slots, recharge after every short or long rest, Saves for Spells are based on Intelligence, following the traditional Formula.
8+Profiency Bonus+ Attribute Modifier= Save DC
Attack based Spells can be based off either Intelligence or Dex, this includes when you use your guns to cast Spells. Though all spells you cast are cast at the spell level that is listed on the chart equal to your class level. you may also not pick spells higher then your maximum Spell level.
Spells known of 1st and higher:
At first level you know two 1-st level spells of your choice that are Evocation, from the Wizard spell list.
The spells known column of the table shows when you learn more Spell-slinger spells of your choice, of 1st level or higher. A Spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what's shown in the Table's Slot Level column for your level.
Your Spellslingers are your arcane focus
You may cast spells without your Spellslingers, but doing so means you must follow proper Somatic and material costs for said spells, as well as you cast them at their lowest possible spell level despite your Class level.

Guns and their ammunition: The Spell-slinger can at anytime make an already existing bullet, into a cantrip. Spellslingers, the guns, have an AC of 15, and an HP of 15. If a spellslinger is destroyed it takes 8 hours of concentration and 50 GP worth of materials to make a new rifle or two revolvers. the cost and time goes up when your spellslingers gain enhancement bonuses, double time and cost for each enhancement. If the guns are in an anti magic field or their bullets enter an anti magic field the function just like their weapon from the DMG page 268. A Spellsplinger can also choice with they are shooting out a magic bullet or normal bullet. Base Gun damage as per the DMG does not stack with spells used by the gun, you use either the gun damage or the spell damage output. For finer detail the Revolver is like the revolver from the book while your rifle is like the hunting rifle. It cost 3 gp for the materials needed for 10 bullets, and take 1 hour to make at most 50 bullets. You as a spellslinger know how to make your bullets as well as your guns.


Bonding: Look at Fighter Eldtrich knight, Bonding, It is the same exact rules.

Choose either Desperado or SharpshooterYou have given up your rifle, and now possess two Revolvers. You may cast 2 cantrips each round as one attack action/standard action through your guns. (You can not do this if you do not have your spellslingers) You also gain Cunning Reflex
Cunning Reflex:You may add your Intelligence Modifier to your AC even while wearing Light Armor.
You have given up your Revolver in favor of your rifle. You can once per short or long rest shot a spell at one spell slot higher then you can normally. Also once per round if you use your rifle to cast a cantrip, you can add one more additional damage die to your damage roll.
Exp: Grimdrop shots off a magic missile at lvl three he would normally cast it as a 2nd level spell, with his rifle he now cast it as a 3rd level. you also gain Go to Ground.
Go to Ground: You are now Proficient in Medium Armor as well as shields, you also gain double AC Bonus from cover effects. You can use a shield while wielding your rifle.


Advanced Learning: You may now learn from one more school of spells from the Wizard Spell List.

Ability Score Improvements: Same rules as the book.

Enhancement Bonus: Your Spellslingers, are now magically enchanted weapons while in your hands with a +1 bonus to all attacks and save DCs. This increases at level 10 to +2 and then again at level 17 to +3

You can now Quicken one spell per long or short rest.
Quicken: you can cast a spell as a bonus action if it originally had 1 action as its casting time. despite the bonus casting rule, you can after casting this spell, cast another spell without it being a Cantrip. You also can know evocation spells of any class. (damage based Evocation not healing like a cleric or bard)

you also gain Extra Attack, as per the Fighter Extra Attack in PHB.You may now quicken 2 spells, Per long or Short rest. You may now Quicken three times. You also may reload your guns as a bonus action rather then a Full round action.
You now can Quicken your spells as often as you like
On damage rolls of 1 or 2 you may re roll them once per round. you must keep the rerolled result. You can also now shot 2 spells at one level higher then normal.
Improved Advanced Learning you may now choose another school and spells from any spell casting class. This includes changing your already existing spells. (this includes healing spells unlike Desperado) You may once per round shot an opponent, if they have a cover AC bonus, they no longer have that bonus. You also now can shot 3 spells at a higher spell slot then normal
You now can shot all of your spells at 1 higher level then normal.

Blood, Sweat, and Tears: starting at lvl 13 you have worked and toiled long enough to know a 7th level spell that you can cast once per Long rest without expending a spell slot. You gain this again for an 8th level spell at level 15, and again at level 17 for a 9th level spell. each spell does not count for another. ergo you can not cast your 8th spell twice and use your 7th level spell or vice versa.

Adrenaline Rush: At level twenty you have learned to harness the quick actions of combat to your advantage. You can another Round instantly and can use it as you wish. Like Slow Time Spell only you can effect others, and gain only 1 additional round.) You can do this once per Short or Long Rest.


Ideas thoughts Improvements? Lay it on me guys and gals. IF you use this Class, let me know, i would love to know how it worked in hopes to improve it.

[Humble Master]

Spell-Slinging. The wording of this is a little vague for me. Do you need to determine which bullet is which spell when you load it? What happens if you fail the Intelligence save while you are reloading your gun? All it says is if you fail the save you stop reloading but does that mean you don't reload any bullets, or only reload some? Does casting a spell mean I shoot a bullet? I can obviously infer some things because I'm not an idiot but writing the rules out is always a good idea.

Spellcasting. The only problem I have is the fact that this class regains its spell slots on a short rest. That is just a very different rate of regaining spells. I'm not exactly sure how this stacks up against other classes just by looking at it and I would need some time to compare it but remember that the DMG suggests that the party takes 2 short rests in between each long rest (though obviously it's up to the DM and players to determine how many short rests actually occur). My gut says that this is really, really powerful though and I would advise that you consider revising the class to work around regaining spells on a long rest. As one final complain about this little detail, this also makes the class more complicated/impossible with multiclassing with other spellcasting classes.

Bonding. Sure, why not.

Advanced Learning. Here is where the class becomes very, very powerful. Suddenly, you can do stuff other than blow up your enemies and have a longer range with your effects to boot. I could easily see grabbing Conjuration and becoming a long-range battlefield control expert. Heck, you could shoot your self to teleport (which is sort of weird flavor).

Cowboy. Firstly it is usually better to write out the ability and not just use the short hand of "Quicken". Second, this option is pretty lack-luster. I mean, I get to Quicken stuff sure but that isn't an especially grand ability when I can only do it once or twice a short or long rest. The 14th level feature is problematic because even if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you are not allowed to cast more than 1 non-cantrip spell per round in 5th edition. The reloading thing is fine mechanically but is a pretty weak ability to be 14th level. The best ability of this option is easily the Int to AC at 3rd level.

Sharpshooter. This looks to be the much better option. Getting all your spells 1 level higher is a huge boon, especially once you start grabbing spells from non-evocation schools. The damage dice reroll ability is fine but not why the class is powerful. Getting another school known is extremely powerful given that, as it is with the spell slots back on short rests, this class can get an absurd number of spells slots per day. Finally, the 14th level ability is all but useless and literally a 3rd of the Sharpshooter feat that lets you ignore bonuses granted by cover. So, overall, you get more efficient spell slots and a wider selection of spells which makes this a very potent option.

Enhancement Bonus. Getting increased spell save DCs is very rare and powerful in 5th edition. This ability seems a little to potent to me, but I could be wrong.

Blood, Sweet and Tears. The Warlock's Mystic Arcanum to let the class compete with pure casters.

Adrenaline Rush. Um, isn't this kind of like the Fighter's Action Surge? Which the Fighter gets at 2nd level? This seems very underwhelming to me.

Overall, a strange mix of things that I feel are very underpowered, some very well balanced stuff, and the regain spell slots on short rest thing which I think is the most problematic part of the whole class. A decent attempt, but I would recommend a revision.

[PotatoGolem]

Just from a cursory review, the spellcasting is off. You have the warlock's recovery method, but with way more spells per rest and going up to 6th level.

[Jormengand]

Okay, for a start, I'm not going to touch the grammar with a standard-issue ten-foot pole, but please go through and check that it makes sense.


Spell-Slinging: As a Spell-Slinger, you have learned to create, and maintain, two different types of weapons. Either a Revolver, that has a 6 shot clip, or a 8 shot revolving clip Rifle.
Kharrus Nessurion, the iconic Spellslinger, wields not one but two revolvers. Also, the special spellslinging rifle used to have 12 bullets, why change that?

Also, it implies that you can only have a revolver or a rifle? How long do they take to create?


These weapons are your tools, and arcane implements to cast your magic through. Each Bullet, is a spell, that you have loaded into the gun.
Which spell, off what list, and when do you have to choose? Also, the user is guaranteed to load the highest-possible levels of spells into their guns if they get the free spells the way they did in 3.5.


It takes a full round of concentration to load your gun when it is empty. if you are hit during that time, you must make a Intelligence Saving throw, the damage taken is the DC, to keep reloading your gun. The range of your Guns superscedes the range of your spells. The range of the revolver, is 120 ft for a ranged Spell, while touch spells from this gun become 30 ft. the range of the Rifle is 240 ft, and 60 ft for touch spells.
Which is odd, because in 3.5 the range of both weapons was 100 for any spell.


Spellcasting: You may only choose spells from the wizard's Spell list that are of the Evocation school.
See, I'd make it able to cast any wiz spell of low enough level, and then have a specific list of spells that can be spellslung.


All your spell slots, recharge after every short or long rest, Saves for Spells are based on Intelligence, following the traditional Formula.
8+Profiency Bonus+ Attribute Modifer= Save DC
Attack based Spells can be based off either Intelligence or Dex, this includes when you use your guns to cast Spells. Though all spells you cast are cast at the spell level that is listed on the chart equal to your class level. you may also not pick spells higher then your maximum Spell level.
So a 13th-level spellslinger uses all his spells as though they were sixth-level spells? Uhm, why?


Choose either Cowboy or SharpshooterYou have given up your rifle, and now possess two Revolvers. You may cast 2 cantrips each round or one spell. You also gain Cunning Reflex
Cunning Reflex:You may add your Intelligence Modifier to your AC even while wearing Light Armor.
You have given up your Revolver in favor of your rifle. all spells you now cast with your rifle are treated as one spell level higher. Exp: Grimdrop shots off a magic missile at lvl three he would normally cast it as a 2nd level spell, with his rifle he now cast it as a 3rd level. you also gain Go to Ground.
Go to Ground: You are now Proficient in Medium Armor as well as shields, you also gain double AC Bonus from cover effects.


Oh, so that's where Kharrus went. Still, the second option looks way better.


Advanced Learning: You may now learn from one more school of spells from the Wizard Spell List.
This should just be a thing that happens.


Enhancement Bonus: Your Spellslingers, are now magically enchanted Weapons with a +1 bonus to all attacks and save DCs. This increases at level 10 to +2 and then again at level 17 to +3
Wait, does that mean that if you have any friends who also have levels in spellslinger, you can use them as magic weapons?


You can now Quicken one Cantrip per short or Long Rest. You may now quicken 2 Cantrips, Per long or Short rest. You may now Quicken three times, and can now Quicken Spells not just Cantrips. You also may reload your guns as a bonus action rather then a Full round action.
On damage rolls of 1 or 2 you may re roll them once per round. you must keep the rerolled result.
Improved Advanced Learning you may now choose another school and spells from any spell casting class. This includes changing your already existing spells. You may once per round shot an opponent, if they have a cover AC bonus, they no longer have that bonus.

Wait, you can reload your guns as a bonus action? Okay, that's pretty sweet, I guess, given that reload time (Which was several rounds in 3.5!) was basically the only thing stopping you from filling an entire building with fireballs every round.


Blood, Sweat, and Tears: starting at lvl 13 you have worked and toiled long enough to know a 7th level spell that you can cast once per Long rest without expending a spell slot. You gain this again for an 8th level spell at level 15, and again at level 17 for a 9th level spell. each spell does not count for another. ergo you can not cast your 8th spell twice and use your 7th level spell or vice versa.

Adrenaline Rush: At level twenty you have learned to harness the quick actions of combat to your advantage. You can another Round instantly and can use it as you wish. Like Slow Time Spell only you can effect others, and gain only 1 additional round.) You can do this once per Short or Long Rest.

Wooooah. You moved the capstone down to thirteenth, added two more better versions of the capstone on top of that, and then stuck an extra, new capstone on top!

Also, no dive attacks? :smallfrown:

[cavalieredraghi]

For Humble, I have changed some of the wording so that some of the class features are more easily understood, does this help?

I also changed the Spell slot progression to reflect a little bit more the warlock. Same with the spell level progression.

Okay, for a start, I'm not going to touch the grammar with a standard-issue ten-foot pole, but please go through and check that it makes sense.


I am doing this, sorry for my mistakes.



Kharrus Nessurion, the iconic Spellslinger, wields not one but two revolvers. Also, the special spellslinging rifle used to have 12 bullets, why change that?
:

Generally the actual rotating clip rifles have 8, while 12 is for far smaller sized bullet rifles.




Also, it implies that you can only have a revolver or a rifle? How long do they take to create?


Answered for you in my edits.



Which spell, off what list, and when do you have to choose? Also, the user is guaranteed to load the highest-possible levels of spells into their guns if they get the free spells the way they did in 3.5.


the way 5e does spells is different then 3.5 you can caste a 1st level spell with a 5th level slot for most normal classes, but that 1st level spell will be more powerful because you used a higher slot.



Which is odd, because in 3.5 the range of both weapons was 100 for any spell.

I changed the ranges to give a slightly more realistic portrayal of the weapons. I hope this is fine.



See, I'd make it able to cast any wiz spell of low enough level, and then have a specific list of spells that can be spellslung.


So a 13th-level spellslinger uses all his spells as though they were sixth-level spells? Uhm, why?


Each class has their own spell lists that are different from one another in significant ways. This changed the feel of say Wizard and Sorcerer, from when they were in 3.5 when they shared the same list. I choose Wizard as the Spell-slingers list since Wizards have the largest list, as well as some of the better Evocation spells.

I bumped it down to 5th now as there max spell slot, but this was inspired a bit by the warlock who functions in a similar manner, though the feels of the classes I hope are quite different.





Oh, so that's where Kharrus went. Still, the second option looks way better.


This should just be a thing that happens.



I am still trying to balance the two, but so far a lot of people do love the second option, i am working to improve the first option, which is what i am currently playing IRL game.

Also I am glad you like the Advanced Learning. :smallbiggrin:



Wait, does that mean that if you have any friends who also have levels in spellslinger, you can use them as magic weapons?

Wait, you can reload your guns as a bonus action? Okay, that's pretty sweet, I guess, given that reload time (Which was several rounds in 3.5!) was basically the only thing stopping you from filling an entire building with fireballs every round.

I changed the wording so it only works with the creator of said Spellslingers.

Also the reload is coined on the idea of a quick reloader that can be bought for certain revolvers IRL. But I also changed the reloading rules to explain why it may take several rounds to reload a gun.





Wooooah. You moved the capstone down to thirteenth, added two more better versions of the capstone on top of that, and then stuck an extra, new capstone on top!

Also, no dive attacks? :smallfrown:


Explain the first, and Where would you put the dive attacks? I would love to add it, I am just not sure where.