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RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 01:16 AM
Warborn Skald

Warborn Skalds are born warriors, able to use powerful martial techniques and focus their raging songs into weapons of destructive force.

Maneuvers (Ex): The Warborn Skald begins play with knowledge of 3 maneuvers from the following disciplines: Golden Lion, Primal Fury, and Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald adds Sleight of Hand and Survival to her list of class skills. Once she knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by a Warborn Skald is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Her maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one. She learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in Table 1-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through Warborn Skald levels is limited by the those listed in Table: Warborn Skald Maneuvers; this restriction does not apply to maneuvers gained through other methods, such as through other classes or the Advanced Study feat.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered Warborn Skald level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the Warborn Skald loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The Warborn Skald need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The Warborn Skald can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A Warborn Skald's primary initiator attribute is Charisma, and each Warborn Skald level is counted as a full initiator level.

Maneuvers Readied (Ex): A Warborn Skald can ready all three of her three starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. She readies her maneuvers by practicing weapon drills or communing with her ancestors for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to repeat this act and change them. Warborn Skalds do not need to sleep or be well rested to ready their maneuvers; any time she spends 10 minutes in meditation, she can change her readied maneuvers. She begins an encounter with all readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she may have already used them since she chose them. When the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until they are recovered, see below).

Warborn Skalds may recover their maneuvers in one of two ways. The Warborn Skald may open herself to the whispers of her ancestors and recover one maneuver as a standard action. Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and adds her initiation modifier to any fast healing she has, even if her current fast healing is zero. If the barbarian does so she recovers maneuvers equal to her initiating modifier (min 2).

Stances Known (Ex): Warborn Skalds begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of her available disciplines. At the indicated levels (see class table), the Warborn Skald selects an additional new stance. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, the Warborn Skald cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This replaces well-versed, spell kenning, damage reduction and the versatile performance gained at second level.

Fell Call (Su): At first level, The Warborn Skald may focus his rage into a weapon of audible force. During any round in which he uses his raging song class feature, he may use whatever instrument he is playing as a ranged weapon. This weapon does 1d8 sonic damage with a critical threat range of 19-20x2 and a range increment of 50 ft. The Warborn Skald uses his Charisma modifier in place of his dexterity modifier to determine his attack bonus with his fell call and may use it to make iterative attacks. All feats that affect ranged weapons may be used with the fell call. The fell call counts as a discipline weapon for Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald may enchant his instrument like a ranged weapon, or apply any enhancement bonuses or weapon enchantments that affect natural weapons if he uses his voice. This ability replaces song of marching.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-12, 01:34 AM
I like the concept.

You refer to Tempest Gale as Tempest Fury in the Maneuvers section.

I don't think it gives up enough for the maneuver progression. Maybe in exchange for the maneuvers they give up three of their rage powers (either at levels 6/12/18 or 3/9/15, preferably the former), and have one less spell/day (minimum 0 + bonus spells) and spell known (minimum 1) of each level?

It would be cool if they traded Versatile Performance for Martial Performance á la Rubato.

The side benefit of the full-round recovery is kind of odd. I think it should be changed. Maybe they get the extra round of raging song and also some way to swap maneuvers out? It fits with the fluff of drawing insight from ancestors.

Suggestion:
Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and gains damage reduction equal to her Charisma modifier if she does so. If the Warborn Skald does so she recovers maneuvers equal to her initiating modifier (min 2), and may then exchange one of her readied maneuvers for another maneuver of equal or lower level from the same discipline. The Warborn Skald may initiate and recover this maneuver as if she knew it, but at the end of the encounter she loses the ability to initiate the new maneuver and regains the knowledge of the maneuver traded away to make room for it.

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 01:48 AM
Extra Anchovies: Thanks for replying! I'd rather avoid touching the rage powers if I can help it, since I think they're one of the most fun parts of playing a skald. I could see incorporating your spell adjustment suggestion along with what's already given up as a compromise, maybe?

I really dig your maneuver recovery suggestion. If no one suggests a better one, I think i'll use it.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-12, 02:18 AM
Extra Anchovies: Thanks for replying! I'd rather avoid touching the rage powers if I can help it, since I think they're one of the most fun parts of playing a skald. I could see incorporating your spell adjustment suggestion along with what's already given up as a compromise, maybe?

I think that sacrificing some rage powers would be a pretty easy way to balance the class, and it would do so in a way that also looks balanced (sacrificing combat power for different combat power). A case could be made for diminished casting + side features being a valid trade (look at the Polymath, after all) but I'm not sure.


I really dig your maneuver recovery suggestion. If no one suggests a better one, I think i'll use it.

Thanks! Happy to help :smallbiggrin:

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 02:23 AM
I was thinking of the Polymath when I was trying to decide what class features to strip, actually. However, I was just looking over the Rubato archetype and now I'm thinking I might strip out the spellcasting entirely for new performances+ even more rage powers and 6th level initiation. I'm going to wait and see if I can get a second opinion on the archetype as it stands before I make a decision about that.

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 05:07 PM
Version 2.0 HOOOOO! Now with diminished spellcasting and a much cooler maneuver recovery.

Warborn Skald

Warborn Skalds are born warriors, able to use powerful martial techniques and focus their raging songs into weapons of destructive force.

Maneuvers (Ex): The Warborn Skald begins play with knowledge of 3 maneuvers from the following disciplines: Golden Lion, Primal Fury, and Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald adds Sleight of Hand and Survival to her list of class skills. Once she knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by a Warborn Skald is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Her maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one. She learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in Table 1-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through Warborn Skald levels is limited by the those listed in Table: Warborn Skald Maneuvers; this restriction does not apply to maneuvers gained through other methods, such as through other classes or the Advanced Study feat.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered Warborn Skald level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the Warborn Skald loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The Warborn Skald need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The Warborn Skald can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A Warborn Skald's primary initiator attribute is Charisma, and each Warborn Skald level is counted as a full initiator level.

Maneuvers Readied (Ex): A Warborn Skald can ready all three of her three starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. She readies her maneuvers by practicing weapon drills or communing with her ancestors for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to repeat this act and change them. Warborn Skalds do not need to sleep or be well rested to ready their maneuvers; any time she spends 10 minutes in meditation, she can change her readied maneuvers. She begins an encounter with all readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she may have already used them since she chose them. When the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until they are recovered, see below).

Warborn Skalds may recover their maneuvers in one of two ways. The Warborn Skald may open herself to the whispers of her ancestors and recover one maneuver as a standard action. Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and gains damage reduction equal to her Charisma modifier if she does so. If the Warborn Skald does so she recovers maneuvers equal to her initiating modifier (min 2), and may then exchange one of her readied maneuvers for another maneuver of equal or lower level from the same discipline. The Warborn Skald may initiate and recover this maneuver as if she knew it, but at the end of the encounter she loses the ability to initiate the new maneuver and regains the knowledge of the maneuver traded away to make room for it.

Stances Known (Ex): Warborn Skalds begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of her available disciplines. At the indicated levels (see class table), the Warborn Skald selects an additional new stance. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, the Warborn Skald cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This replaces well-versed, spell kenning, damage reduction and the versatile performance gained at second level.

Spellcasting: The Warborn Skald may cast one fewer spell per day of each spell level he can cast. If this would reduce spells per day to zero, he may only cast the spell if he receives bonus spells per day due to a high charisma score.

Fell Call (Su): At first level, The Warborn Skald may focus his rage into a weapon of audible force. During any round in which he uses his raging song class feature, he may use whatever instrument he is playing as a ranged weapon. This weapon does 1d8 sonic damage with a critical threat range of 19-20x2 and a range increment of 50 ft. The Warborn Skald uses his Charisma modifier in place of his dexterity modifier to determine his attack bonus with his fell call and may use it to make iterative attacks. All feats that affect ranged weapons may be used with the fell call. The fell call counts as a discipline weapon for Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald may enchant his instrument like a ranged weapon, or apply any enhancement bonuses or weapon enchantments that affect natural weapons if he uses his voice. This ability replaces song of marching.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-12, 05:30 PM
Full-round recovery is a bit strong and needs some clarifications. First off, you'll want to specify that they revert to their normal set of maneuvers known at the end of each encounter. Second, being able to uptrade is very strong, because most initiators only get to do that nine times over 20 levels. I'd make it require that the new maneuver be the same level or lower than the maneuver that gets traded away.

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 05:39 PM
Extra Anchovies: Doesn't it do exactly those two things? I copy/pasted your suggestion right in, and it covers both those situations, I thought? That's half the reason I used it.

Elricaltovilla
2015-07-12, 05:54 PM
Version 2.0 HOOOOO! Now with diminished spellcasting and a much cooler maneuver recovery.

Warborn Skald

Warborn Skalds are born warriors, able to use powerful martial techniques and focus their raging songs into weapons of destructive force.

Maneuvers (Ex): The Warborn Skald begins play with knowledge of 3 maneuvers from the following disciplines: Golden Lion, Primal Fury, and Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald adds Sleight of Hand and Survival to her list of class skills. Once she knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by a Warborn Skald is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Her maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one. She learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in Table 1-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through Warborn Skald levels is limited by the those listed in Table: Warborn Skald Maneuvers; this restriction does not apply to maneuvers gained through other methods, such as through other classes or the Advanced Study feat.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered Warborn Skald level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the Warborn Skald loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The Warborn Skald need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The Warborn Skald can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A Warborn Skald's primary initiator attribute is Charisma, and each Warborn Skald level is counted as a full initiator level.

OK so, primary initiator attribute looks good. Same maneuver progression as other classes, also good. My first question is why did you choose the disciplines you chose? Golden Lion and Primal Fury both make sense on the Skald, but Tempest Gale doesn't really have a connection to the class as they're much more melee focused than bards are.



Maneuvers Readied (Ex): A Warborn Skald can ready all three of her three starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. She readies her maneuvers by practicing weapon drills or communing with her ancestors for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to repeat this act and change them. Warborn Skalds do not need to sleep or be well rested to ready their maneuvers; any time she spends 10 minutes in meditation, she can change her readied maneuvers. She begins an encounter with all readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she may have already used them since she chose them. When the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until they are recovered, see below).

Warborn Skalds may recover their maneuvers in one of two ways. The Warborn Skald may open herself to the whispers of her ancestors and recover one maneuver as a standard action. Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and gains damage reduction equal to her Charisma modifier if she does so. If the Warborn Skald does so she recovers maneuvers equal to her initiating modifier (min 2), and may then exchange one of her readied maneuvers for another maneuver of equal or lower level from the same discipline. The Warborn Skald may initiate and recover this maneuver as if she knew it, but at the end of the encounter she loses the ability to initiate the new maneuver and regains the knowledge of the maneuver traded away to make room for it.

Maneuver Recovery: This is a big deal, it's a bit like a nerfed version of Adaptive Tactics from the Warder. The ability to trade around maneuvers is good, very good, but I question how it's tied to the Skald's intended role. It's a pretty selfish ability on an otherwise very selfless class. I would consider looking at a maneuver recovery that allows a Warborn Skald to aid his allies more directly. Perhaps granting them use of a rage power without having to be under the effects of rage?



Stances Known (Ex): Warborn Skalds begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of her available disciplines. At the indicated levels (see class table), the Warborn Skald selects an additional new stance. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, the Warborn Skald cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This replaces well-versed, spell kenning, damage reduction and the versatile performance gained at second level.



Spellcasting: The Warborn Skald may cast one fewer spell per day of each spell level he can cast. If this would reduce spells per day to zero, he may only cast the spell if he receives bonus spells per day due to a high charisma score.

So the Skald trades away a lot for this archetype. Spell Kenning is a fantastically versatile ability, the damage reduction is a big part of their buffing ability, and the hit to spellcasting obviously hurts. Largely I think it's a fair trade, maybe a little worse off but I think that depends a lot on how much downtime the character has, since that's what really makes Spell Kenning good (in my opinion).



Fell Call (Su): At first level, The Warborn Skald may focus his rage into a weapon of audible force. During any round in which he uses his raging song class feature, he may use whatever instrument he is playing as a ranged weapon. This weapon does 1d8 sonic damage with a critical threat range of 19-20x2 and a range increment of 50 ft. The Warborn Skald uses his Charisma modifier in place of his dexterity modifier to determine his attack bonus with his fell call and may use it to make iterative attacks. All feats that affect ranged weapons may be used with the fell call. The fell call counts as a discipline weapon for Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald may enchant his instrument like a ranged weapon, or apply any enhancement bonuses or weapon enchantments that affect natural weapons if he uses his voice. This ability replaces song of marching.

So this is why you have Tempest Gale. It seems odd to create an ability so intrinsically tied to a discipline that otherwise plays against a class's strengths. It being the only really unique thing the archetype offers too, this makes me wonder why you didn't go for a full on ranged Skald archetype.

I'd consider maybe rewriting this ability to be more fighting style neutral, such as allowing you to convert the damage from strikes to sonic damage (start with half and progress to full at 6th or 8th level) or make this archetype much more closely tied to ranged attacks, probably by giving them Solar Wind in place of Primal Fury.

--------------------------------------------------

Overall I think the archetype is at a good starting point, it needs focusing and sharpening though.


Full-round recovery is a bit strong and needs some clarifications. First off, you'll want to specify that they revert to their normal set of maneuvers known at the end of each encounter. Second, being able to uptrade is very strong, because most initiators only get to do that nine times over 20 levels. I'd make it require that the new maneuver be the same level or lower than the maneuver that gets traded away.

The new maneuver recovery is, ah, word for word what you posted earlier in the thread:




Suggestion:
Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and gains damage reduction equal to her Charisma modifier if she does so. If the Warborn Skald does so she recovers maneuvers equal to her initiating modifier (min 2), and may then exchange one of her readied maneuvers for another maneuver of equal or lower level from the same discipline. The Warborn Skald may initiate and recover this maneuver as if she knew it, but at the end of the encounter she loses the ability to initiate the new maneuver and regains the knowledge of the maneuver traded away to make room for it.

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 06:16 PM
Elric: I set up Fell Call and Tempest Gale on the class for two reasons: One, I think the thu'um from Skyrim is badass and wanted to see it as a mechanic in PoW. Two, I wanted to build this class as a switch-hitter who's good at both ranged and melee combat. That's why he uses charisma to hit with his fell call. I might shorten the range increment (or simply change the whole thing to range: close) since I do want this skald to still be in close combat most of the time. I think I need to possibly include a clause about not provoking AoOs when using fell call, and either giving him an extra attack on a full round action (as if he were under a haste effect, or allow him to convert maneuver damage to sonic damage. Do you think those changes would help focus the archetype a little better? Also, I'm going to add back in the damage reduction, and keep spell kenning out. I want spells to be there, but definitely take a back seat to maneuvers with this guy.

As far as the maneuver recovery goes, I think that additional shared damage reduction equal to Cha modifer + doubling inspired rage bonuses for the round might be a good, teamwork oriented ability that ages well.

Thoughts?

Elricaltovilla
2015-07-12, 06:43 PM
Elric: I set up Fell Call and Tempest Gale on the class for two reasons: One, I think the thu'um from Skyrim is badass and wanted to see it as a mechanic in PoW. Two, I wanted to build this class as a switch-hitter who's good at both ranged and melee combat. That's why he uses charisma to hit with his fell call. I might shorten the range increment (or simply change the whole thing to range: close) since I do want this skald to still be in close combat most of the time. I think I need to possibly include a clause about not provoking AoOs when using fell call, and either giving him an extra attack on a full round action (as if he were under a haste effect, or allow him to convert maneuver damage to sonic damage. Do you think those changes would help focus the archetype a little better? Also, I'm going to add back in the damage reduction, and keep spell kenning out. I want spells to be there, but definitely take a back seat to maneuvers with this guy.

As far as the maneuver recovery goes, I think that additional shared damage reduction equal to Cha modifer + doubling inspired rage bonuses for the round might be a good, teamwork oriented ability that ages well.

Thoughts?

Well I have a little more insight into your design goals, so I think I can provide more assistance.

Switch hitting is a can of worms, the Privateer is a switch hitter and Extra Anchovies will be the first to tell you how much he dislikes that :smalltongue:.
What you're going to see is people picking one side or the other, and then complaining that they can't get the full benefits of the archetype. You should look at adding more abilities that encourage switch hitting, something that makes both ranged and melee viable on the class. For example: Thrashing Dragon supports both melee combat and thrown weapons, giving incentive to split focus more evenly between ranged and melee combat. Although additional class abilities that support switch hitting isn't out of the question either.

I do think that reducing the range to Close is a good call though.

I would be careful with doubling bonuses from raging song, that +2 becoming a +4 isn't so bad, but that +6 becoming +12? That's an issue. Might be better to offer a slower scaling, additive bonus instead.

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 08:51 PM
And now, version 3.0! With improved switch hitting abilities. Changes: Improved Fell Call's interaction with melee attacks and stats, improved maneuver recovery, restored damage reduction class ability.

Warborn Skald

Warborn Skalds are born warriors, able to use powerful martial techniques and focus their raging songs into weapons of destructive force.

Maneuvers (Ex): The Warborn Skald begins play with knowledge of 3 maneuvers from the following disciplines: Golden Lion, Primal Fury, and Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald adds Sleight of Hand and Survival to her list of class skills. Once she knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by a Warborn Skald is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Her maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one. She learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in Table 1-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through Warborn Skald levels is limited by the those listed in Table: Warborn Skald Maneuvers; this restriction does not apply to maneuvers gained through other methods, such as through other classes or the Advanced Study feat.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered Warborn Skald level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the Warborn Skald loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The Warborn Skald need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The Warborn Skald can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A Warborn Skald's primary initiator attribute is Charisma, and each Warborn Skald level is counted as a full initiator level.

Maneuvers Readied (Ex): A Warborn Skald can ready all three of her three starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. She readies her maneuvers by practicing weapon drills or communing with her ancestors for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to repeat this act and change them. Warborn Skalds do not need to sleep or be well rested to ready their maneuvers; any time she spends 10 minutes in meditation, she can change her readied maneuvers. She begins an encounter with all readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she may have already used them since she chose them. When the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until they are recovered, see below).

Warborn Skalds may recover their maneuvers in one of two ways. The Warborn Skald may open herself to the whispers of her ancestors and recover one maneuver as a standard action. Alternatively, she may spend a full round action to draw on the insight of her ancestors. The Warborn Skald recovers one round of raging song and increases her damage reduction by her Charisma modifier (sharing it with allies as if she gained it through her damage reduction class ability) if she does so. In addition to this, the Warborn Skald and all allies under the affect of Raging Song increase any morale effects by +2. This bonus on morale effects increases to +4 at level 10.

Stances Known (Ex): Warborn Skalds begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of her available disciplines. At the indicated levels (see class table), the Warborn Skald selects an additional new stance. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, the Warborn Skald cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This replaces well-versed, spell kenning, and the versatile performance gained at second level.

Spellcasting: The Warborn Skald may cast one fewer spell per day of each spell level he can cast. If this would reduce spells per day to zero, he may only cast the spell if he receives bonus spells per day due to a high charisma score.

Fell Call (Su): At first level, The Warborn Skald may focus his rage into a weapon of audible force. During any round in which he uses his raging song class feature, he may use whatever instrument he is playing as a ranged weapon. This weapon does 1d8 sonic damage with a critical threat range of 19-20x2 and may be used in close range (25 ft. +5/level). The Warborn Skald uses his Strength modifier in place of his dexterity modifier to determine his attack bonus with his fell call, add his Strength modifier to his damage rolls, and may use it to make iterative attacks. Attacks with his fell call do not provoke attacks of opportunity, nor do they suffer the opponent in melee penalty. All feats that affect ranged weapons may be used with the fell call. The fell call counts as a discipline weapon for Tempest Gale. The Warborn Skald may use the enhancement bonus from his weapon, if any, on his fell calls. At third level, the Warborn Skald may make an attack on an enemy he succeeds at a combat maneuver against in his threatened area once per round as a free action. This ability replaces song of marching.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-12, 10:13 PM
Maneuver Recovery: This is a big deal, it's a bit like a nerfed version of Adaptive Tactics from the Warder. The ability to trade around maneuvers is good, very good, but I question how it's tied to the Skald's intended role. It's a pretty selfish ability on an otherwise very selfless class. I would consider looking at a maneuver recovery that allows a Warborn Skald to aid his allies more directly. Perhaps granting them use of a rage power without having to be under the effects of rage?

FWIW, I suggested the maneuver recovery method because it fits with the fluff of drawing on the wisdom of ancestors; the new maneuver isn't one that you knew, it's one that your great-grandfather did.

I also chose to balance it against the recovery method of the Polymath, which lets them rotate any of their readied maneuvers for any known but unreadied maneuvers, and against that of the aegis, which lets them switch up their maneuvers known until the end of a fight.

You're right about an ally buff being probably a good idea, but I'm not sure how that would be best implemented. Maybe grant your allies a rage power that you don't already know for 1 round?


The new maneuver recovery is, ah, word for word what you posted earlier in the thread:

Whoops. I must have skimmed too quickly when I looked for the changes; I must've been looking at the second paragraph of Maneuvers instead of Maneuvers Readied :smallredface:


Switch hitting is a can of worms, the Privateer is a switch hitter and Extra Anchovies will be the first to tell you how much he dislikes that :smalltongue:

Hey! I like where the privateer is now (except for the lack of an Extra Ploy feat). I just didn't like its initial form because it tried and failed to support melee/ranged hybrid TWF. Its current form does a good enough job of it that I'd play it if I wanted a pirate.


What you're going to see is people picking one side or the other, and then complaining that they can't get the full benefits of the archetype. You should look at adding more abilities that encourage switch hitting, something that makes both ranged and melee viable on the class. For example: Thrashing Dragon supports both melee combat and thrown weapons, giving incentive to split focus more evenly between ranged and melee combat. Although additional class abilities that support switch hitting isn't out of the question either.

I feel like switch-hitting would be best covered by an entire discipline, actually; some of the maneuvers could be basic ranged-only or melee-only stuff, but most of them would be stuff that encourages chaining ranged and melee attacks (e.g. a ranged strike that lets you make an immediate melee attack if the ranged attack hits, or a stance that gives you a to-hit and damage boost on ranged attacks if you made a melee attack within the last round).

That and throwing support are the two things I want to see in PoW: GGWITW. But I'm getting off-topic now :smalltongue:

RedOndjage
2015-07-12, 10:56 PM
Extra Anchovies: Well, that sort of interplay between melee and ranged attacks is what I tried to set up with the revised Fell Call ability. What do you think?

RedOndjage
2015-07-14, 11:45 PM
Alright. I changed pretty much everything in this archetype to focus it more on what the Skald does: Supporting his allies as they punch the hell out of things. I stripped out spellcasting entirely, and gave the Skald better and more versatile buffing abilities through Raging Song to compensate. I also changed how Fell Call works significantly.

Warborn Skald

Warborn Skalds have a connection to the Primal Song that causes his fury to build like a thunderous war chant, until it is expended to spur he and his allies to victory.

Maneuvers (Ex): The Warborn Skald begins play with knowledge of 3 maneuvers from the following disciplines: Golden Lion, Primal Fury, and Piercing Thunder. The Warborn Skald adds Survival to her list of class skills. Once she knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by a Warborn Skald is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Her maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one. She learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in Table 1-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through Warborn Skald levels is limited by those listed in Table: Warborn Skald Maneuvers; this restriction does not apply to maneuvers gained through other methods, such as through other classes or the Advanced Study feat.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered Warborn Skald level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the Warborn Skald loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The Warborn Skald need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The Warborn Skald can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A Warborn Skald's primary initiator attribute is Charisma, and each Warborn Skald level is counted as a full initiator level.

Maneuvers Readied (Ex): A Warborn Skald can ready all three of her three starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she must choose which maneuvers to ready. She readies her maneuvers by practicing weapon drills or communing with her ancestors for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to repeat this act and change them. Warborn Skalds do not need to sleep or be well rested to ready their maneuvers; any time she spends 10 minutes in meditation, she can change her readied maneuvers. She begins an encounter with all readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she may have already used them since she chose them. When the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until they are recovered, see below).
Warborn Skalds recover their maneuvers by expending fury; a Warborn Skald may recover 1 maneuver as a swift action by expending 1 fury, or as a free action by expending 2 fury. A Warborn Skald may not recover a maneuver by expending fury in the same round in which it has been initiated, though she might be able to another way.

Stances Known (Ex): Warborn Skalds begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of her available disciplines. At the indicated levels (see class table), the Warborn Skald selects an additional new stance. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and she does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, the Warborn Skald cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This ability replaces Spellcasting.

Fury (Su): As the Warborn Skald fights and draws on the Primal Song, her magical fury increases until it finds an outlet. The Warborn Skald has no fury outside of combat. When combat begins, she generates a pool of fury equal to ˝ her class level (minimum 1) plus her Charisma modifier. Thereafter, she generates 1 fury each round at the beginning of her turn. At the end of any round in which the Warborn Skald initiates a maneuver (a strike, boost, or counter) or reduces a foe to zero hitpoints, she adds an additional point of fury to her pool. Whenever the Warborn Skald confirms a critical hit she adds a point of fury to her pool (2 points if the weapon’s critical modifier is x3, and 3 points if the weapon’s critical modifier is x4). The Warborn Skald has no upper limit to the amount of fury she may theoretically have, but all remaining fury in her pool vanishes after spending 1 minute out of combat. The Warborn Skald may not gain or generate fury out of combat, even if another ability would normally permit her to. The Warborn Skald expends fury to recover her maneuvers, as well as to power other effects.
At third level, the Warborn Skald may spend a point of fury during his raging song to give each ally the Superstition rage power for one round.
At fifth level, the Warborn Skald may spend a point of fury during his raging song to add the Thundering quality to the weapons of every ally under the effect of raging song for one round.
At seventh level, the Warborn Skald may spend two points of fury during his raging song to add the Thundering and Furious qualities to the weapons of every ally under the effect of raging song for one round.

This ability replaces cantrips.

Skald’s Vigor: The Warborn Skald gains Skald’s Vigor as a bonus feat at first level. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.

Blood Fury: The Warborn Skald’s connection to the Primal song deepens and at fifth level, allies (including the Warborn Skald) in 60 ft. of a Warborn Skald increase their morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution by 2, and the DCs of their spells by 2 when the Warborn Skald is using his Raging Song ability.

This ability replaces Spell Kenning.

Fell Call (Su): At third level, the Warborn Skald may expend one round of Raging Song and one point of fury to attempt to trip, disarm, or bull rush an opponent in close (25 +5 ft/level) range as a swift action, or as a free action once per round if he initiates a strike. This combat maneuver does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and the Warborn Skald uses his Perform skill in place of his CMB for the combat maneuver check. If successful, the Warborn Skald inflicts 1d8 + his Strength modifier in damage in addition to the combat maneuver.

This ability replaces Song of Marching.

Warchanter’s Rhythm (Su): At sixth level, the Warborn Skald learns to lead his allies in a martial rhythm. Whenever an affected ally initiates a maneuver, they may recover a maneuver of another type (for example, an ally that initiates a strike may recover a boost or a counter). Each affected ally may only recover up to one maneuver per round in this fashion.

This ability replaces Song of Strength.