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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class "Your card is fireball. I forsee doom in your future." (Pseudo-vancian caster, PEACH)



Jormengand
2015-07-12, 06:54 PM
This is based on me reading someone talking about putting their spells on cards and something in my mind going *Snap*. Basically, I want to see if I can limit spellcasters' power by limiting them to having a set number of them at once.

Before you ask why high reflex, I just figure it makes more sense for a kinda performer.


The Fortune-teller
LevelBABFortRefWillSpecial
Hand Size0lvl1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th
1st+0+0+2+0Fortunes
542覧覧覧覧
2nd+1+0+3+0Mulligan (1 cards)
553覧覧覧覧
3rd+1+1+3+1Grant Card (1st)
5532覧覧覧
4th+2+1+4+1Topdeck Metamagic (1)
6643覧覧覧
5th+2+1+4+1Mulligan (2 cards)
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6th+3+2+5+2Grant Card (2nd)
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7th+3+2+5+2Topdeck Metamagic (2)
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8th+4+2+6+2Mulligan (3 cards)
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9th+4+3+6+3Grant Card (3rd)
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10th+5+3+7+3Topdeck Metamagic (3)
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11th+5+3+7+3Mulligan (4 cards)
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12th+6/+1+4+8+4Grant Card (4th)
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13th+6/+1+4+8+4Topdeck Metamagic (4)
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14th+7/+2+4+9+4Mulligan (5 cards)
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15th+7/+2+5+9+5Grant Card (5th)
8666655432
16th+8/+3+5+10+5Topdeck Metamagic (5)
9666655443
17th+8/+3+5+10+5Mulligan (6 cards)
96666655432
18th+9/+4+6+11+6Grant Card (6th)
96666655443
19th+9/+4+6+11+6Topdeck Metamagic (6)
96666665544
20th+10/+5+6+12+6Mulligan (7 cards)
106666665555

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d4

Class Skills:
The Fortune-teller痴 class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ラ 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armour Proficiency
A fortune-teller is proficient with all simple weapons, and the rapier. They aren't proficient with any kind of armour or shields if they use arcane spells, and are proficient only with light armour if they use divine spells.

Fortunes (Ex)
A fortune-teller prepares spells in a similar manner to how a cleric or wizard does. She uses arcane spells drawn from the wizard/sorcerer spell list, or divine spells drawn from the cleric list (decided at first level, this decision can't be changed). Either way, she requires no spellbook and simply prepares all of her spells each morning. She must prepare all at once. When she prepares spells, she writes each one onto a card made of raw magical energy. These cards are then shuffled into a deck, and she draws a hand of her maximum hand size from them. For example, a fortune teller capable of casting 3 first-level and four zero-level spells per day could prepare three copies of Cure Minor Wounds, and one copy each of Light, Divine Favour, Doom and Summon Monster I. She would then draw five of these cards into her hand.

The fortune-teller can cast any spell whose card is in her hand. Doing so destroys the card, and she can draw a new one automatically as part of the casting of the spell, assuming there exists one in her deck. She can also destroy a card in her hand and draw a new one as a free action, potentially destroying her whole hand and much of her deck in search of a single card.

For example, if the fortune-teller given above drew three copies of Cure Minor Wounds, one of Light and one of Summon Monster I, then apart from being incredibly unlucky, she would only be able to cast those three spells - she couldn't cast the Divine Favour or Doom still in her deck. If she chooses to cast Cure Minor Wounds, she draws a new card. Alternatively, if she needs a new spell immediately, she can destroy Cure Minor Wounds without casting it as a free action, and draw a new card. Either way, she still has two Cure Minor Wounds in her hand.

A fortune-teller uses her charisma modifier to cast spells, exactly as a sorcerer or bard does. She's treated as a sorcerer if a spell asks whether she's a sorcerer or a wizard. Telekinesis is a good example of such a spell.

Mulligan
At the levels indicated on Table: The Fortune-Teller, a fortune-teller can mulligan a certain number of cards. What this means is that upon drawing her first hand of cards in a day, she can immediately shuffle that number of cards back into her deck, and draw new cards until she reaches her maximum hand size again.

She can Mulligan again at the beginning of each encounter.

Grant Card
At the levels indicated on Table: The Fortune-Teller, a fortune-teller can give cards of a certain level or below to other people to cast. These cards still contribute to her maximum hand size, and she can't give away more than one card to a specific person at once, nor give away more than half her hand. She can still destroy these cards as a free action to draw new ones, or prevent their use against her.

When another creature casts the spell, they do so as the normal action to cast it, and they do so at your own caster level, charisma modifier, and save DC. The spell originates from their location.

Even personal spells can be transferred this way, but their duration is halved.

Example: Maya the Fortune-teller has a caster level of 10, and a charisma modifier of +4. Her Fireball spells deal 10d6 damage (reflex DC 17 half). She gives the Fireball card to James the wizard, who has a caster level of 8 and a charisma modifier of +1. James casts the Fireball from the card. It deals 10d6 damage to James' target or targets (Reflex 17 half). James gets to target the spell within 600 feet of himself.

Kara the fortune-teller has a caster level of 15, and grants James a Divine Power spell. James gets a +6 enhancement to his strength and a base attack bonus equal to his level, as well as 15 temporary hit points, for 7 rounds, upon casting it.

Topdeck metamagic
At the levels indicated on Table: The Fortune-Teller, a fortune-teller can apply free metamagic of up to a certain level to a card, so long as she drew it in the last round as a result of casting (not just destroying) a spell. She must also know the relevant metamagic feats.

qazzquimby
2015-07-12, 07:28 PM
assuming there exists one in her hand
Hand probably means deck?


she can discard Cure Minor Wounds
Discard and destroy are both used to mean the same thing.

I think I would make mulligan after some period of rest, or at the beginning of an encounter, or something. As is, its pretty negligible I think. At the very least, it should be able to mulligan your whole hand, and probably still be buffed after that.

Grant card seems like absurd nova casting.

Sorry about still not being useful with the splitsoul, I'm really sick and my head has not yet stopped hurting.

Jormengand
2015-07-12, 07:39 PM
Hand probably means deck?


Discard and destroy are both used to mean the same thing.

I think I would make mulligan after some period of rest, or at the beginning of an encounter, or something. As is, its pretty negligible I think. At the very least, it should be able to mulligan your whole hand, and probably still be buffed after that.
These, and the lack of any text explaining the last ability, have been fixed.


Grant card seems like absurd nova casting.
Maybe? I mean, you're not actually getting any more actions out of it.


Sorry about still not being useful with the splitsoul, I'm really sick and my head has not yet stopped hurting.

Don't worry, it's fine. :smallsmile:

qazzquimby
2015-07-12, 10:40 PM
I'm confused how grant card works then. Do they cast the card, or do they act as the starting point of the card's range or something?

Kamai
2015-07-13, 12:33 AM
I'm not convinced that as you gain levels, having a high casting stat should be a trade-off. While you can mulligan and dump some of these cards, with the way that you gain more low than high level spells, a higher casting stat seems like it would flood the deck some. I'm not sure what would be more balanced, but with that, I think there should either be some benefit for not taking your bonus spells, or a larger hand size based on your casting stat.

As far as other parts of the class:

I really don't understand the random rapier proficiency. I can't really think of a fortune-teller tradition that is specifically going to make use of the rapier. To me, weapons with the tradition would either be concealable weapons like the Dagger or Quarterstaff, or some sort of hunting weapon.

If you really think it fits the feel to have all knowledges, it's probably safe to bump this skill set to 4+int, due to being a Charisma caster.

Being able to prepare off the whole wizard list or the whole cleric list is actually a huge chunk of power, even if it is a little more randomly accessed. I'd actually be afraid that you'd have to make the class too clunky in keeping it's balance if you want to do this. Maybe a spells known list with a larger progression than the Sorcerer/Favored Soul?

Grant card, while having the problem of letting you nova using your party's actions, is also scary since you can pass off personal spells, which are usually balanced as not being shared. It would be interesting, though, if Grant Card was a +2 metamagic specifically for this class. What this would mean is that either you have to grant weaker spells, or you are at the mercy of the cards for what spells you grant. Either way, you need to clarify exactly what it means for that user to cast your spell. The Imbue with Spell Ability spell should be a good template.

Topdeck metamagic
Since you note that you cast like a sorcerer, you absolutely need to specify if casting with topdeck metamagic will increase the casting time of the spell.

Jormengand
2015-07-13, 08:32 AM
I'm confused how grant card works then. Do they cast the card, or do they act as the starting point of the card's range or something?

They cast the spell with their action, but your CHA and CL.


I'm not convinced that as you gain levels, having a high casting stat should be a trade-off. While you can mulligan and dump some of these cards, with the way that you gain more low than high level spells, a higher casting stat seems like it would flood the deck some. I'm not sure what would be more balanced, but with that, I think there should either be some benefit for not taking your bonus spells, or a larger hand size based on your casting stat.
There's no actual trade-off, since any cards you don't like can be dumped as a free action.


As far as other parts of the class:

I really don't understand the random rapier proficiency. I can't really think of a fortune-teller tradition that is specifically going to make use of the rapier. To me, weapons with the tradition would either be concealable weapons like the Dagger or Quarterstaff, or some sort of hunting weapon.
I dunno, I just like the image of a fortune-teller having a rapier as a defensive weapon.


If you really think it fits the feel to have all knowledges, it's probably safe to bump this skill set to 4+int, due to being a Charisma caster.
Mm, maybe.


Being able to prepare off the whole wizard list or the whole cleric list is actually a huge chunk of power, even if it is a little more randomly accessed. I'd actually be afraid that you'd have to make the class too clunky in keeping it's balance if you want to do this. Maybe a spells known list with a larger progression than the Sorcerer/Favored Soul?
Clerics can prepare off the whole cleric list.


Grant card, while having the problem of letting you nova using your party's actions, is also scary since you can pass off personal spells, which are usually balanced as not being shared. It would be interesting, though, if Grant Card was a +2 metamagic specifically for this class. What this would mean is that either you have to grant weaker spells, or you are at the mercy of the cards for what spells you grant. Either way, you need to clarify exactly what it means for that user to cast your spell. The Imbue with Spell Ability spell should be a good template.

Mm, maybe. I was thinking that the low maximum on what level of spell you can actually give out would balance it. In any case, your fireball isn't really better than anyone else's, so nova-ing shouldn't be any more of a problem than if your party members were casters in their own right.


Topdeck metamagic
Since you note that you cast like a sorcerer, you absolutely need to specify if casting with topdeck metamagic will increase the casting time of the spell.
Yeah, I think it shouldn't do that.

Kamai
2015-07-13, 11:11 AM
There's no actual trade-off, since any cards you don't like can be dumped as a free action.

What do you gain, besides bookkeeping, for forcing them to prepare those spells at all, then? I'm trying to think if the wording that you have actually allows someone to not prepare a slot with the understanding that it's gone for the day, and I'm not really sure what you're intending with "She must prepare all at once".



Clerics can prepare off the whole cleric list.

Clerics are one of the biggest problems in D&D. I really don't think that's a fair point to make, especially when you're trying to limit power.



Mm, maybe. I was thinking that the low maximum on what level of spell you can actually give out would balance it. In any case, your fireball isn't really better than anyone else's, so nova-ing shouldn't be any more of a problem than if your party members were casters in their own right.

I missed the low spell level, and for some reason thought that the progression was how many spells you could share. Should be fine with half duration on spells. If you keep poking at this ability, keep in mind that you're not necessarily handing your other caster Fireball. Think about things like a self-buff cleric getting a cast of Alter Self.

Another side thought that came up: Topdeck metamagic is completely worthless if you don't throw some of your feats at metamagic, and ideally 3-4 by 19th level. While I wouldn't necessarily advise giving free metamagic, it may be worth having an ACF that replaces Topdeck Metamagic eventually so this caster isn't completely out a class feature if they want to focus their feats in another direction. Maybe the ACF can stay along the same lines, but have some benefit for truly blind-casting the top spell of your deck?

Jormengand
2015-07-13, 11:50 AM
What do you gain, besides bookkeeping, for forcing them to prepare those spells at all, then? I'm trying to think if the wording that you have actually allows someone to not prepare a slot with the understanding that it's gone for the day, and I'm not really sure what you're intending with "She must prepare all at once".

To be honest, I can't see someone wanting not to have an extra shot of C*W/SM* in their deck, just in case.


Clerics are one of the biggest problems in D&D. I really don't think that's a fair point to make, especially when you're trying to limit power.

TBH, oracles, sorcerers, and their ilk are the second most problematic group, and a cleric with a spellbook would still break the game as hard as a cleric without one.


I missed the low spell level, and for some reason thought that the progression was how many spells you could share. Should be fine with half duration on spells. If you keep poking at this ability, keep in mind that you're not necessarily handing your other caster Fireball. Think about things like a self-buff cleric getting a cast of Alter Self.

Next level you'll be able to polymorph the cleric anyway. I don't see that as a major issue.

qazzquimby
2015-07-13, 03:32 PM
They cast the spell with their action, but your CHA and CL.
Hire mooks with stats barely high enough, and have them cast all your spells at once?

Jormengand
2015-07-13, 03:41 PM
Hire mooks with stats barely high enough, and have them cast all your spells at once?

I guess you could? I mean, you could also use imbue with spell ability to do the same thing.