PDA

View Full Version : reimagined Sorceror for homebrew campaign



brian c
2007-05-03, 01:17 AM
Alright, this is my re-take on the Sorceror class for my campaign. I kinda brainstormed a little over in the General Gaming/D&D forum, but this is an updated version. One of the important things to know is that I'm having Wizards still use spell slots (as normal) but Sorcerors use spellpoints. I know that some of my adjustments might require the number of spellpoints to be recalibrated, but I'm still working on that. Also, all arcane magic started with dragons, so all sorcerors are related to them somewhat closely. I changed some of the standard dragon alignments and energies, I know. This is a somewhat more high-powered world than usual, probably on par with FR, so please don't tell me right away that it's overpowered, it should be, but it shouldn't be broken. Anyways, please tell me what you think; I tried to get a good flavor first and then figure out the mechanics, and like I said it's pretty strong. If there's anything odd that I forgot to mention, also let me know. Anything that isn't mentioned (hit die, skills, etc) is unchanged from the Sorc in PHB.


Sorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|
Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Eschew Materials, Magical Blood
2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Ancestral Knowledge +2

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Arcane Exhaustion

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Elemental familiarity -1

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Shield 1/day

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Bloodline ability

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Hurried Metamagic

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Ancestral Knowledge +4, Elemental familiarity -2

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Improved Arcane Exhaustion

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Shield 2/day, Bloodline ability

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Greater Shield +6

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Elemental familiarity -3

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Greater Hurried Metamagic

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9|Ancestral Knowledge +6, Bloodline ability

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Shield 3/day

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Elemental familiarity -4

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Greater Arcane Exhaustion

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Bloodline ability

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Greater Shield +8

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Ancestral Knowledge +8[/table]

Abilities

Eschew Materials: At 1st level, a Sorceror gains the feat Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.

Magical Blood: At 1st level, a Sorceror must designate a dragon heritage which explains his inherent magical abilities. The Dragons, alignments, and associated elements are:

{table=head]Dragon Color|Element|Alignment|Other allowed alignments

Brass|
Fire|
CG|
CN, NG

Black|
Fire|
CE|
CN, NE

Copper|
Acid|
CG|
CN, NG

Green|
Acid|
CE|
CN, NE

Silver|
Cold|
LG|
LN, NG

White|
Cold|
LE|
LN, NE

Gold|
Fire|
LG|
LN, NG

Red|
Fire|
CE|
CN, NE

Bronze|
Electricity|
LG|
LN, NG

Blue|
Electricity|
LE|
LN, NE[/table]

Sorcerors gain a +2 to all diplomacy checks with Dragons of their type. This ability does not make the sorceror considered to have Dragon blood for the purposes of any feat, special ability or racial bonus. If the sorceror is a Half-Dragon, his dragon heritage must be the same as the type of his dragon parent.

Ancestral Knowledge: At 2nd level, Sorcerors gain a +2 competence bonus to Knowledge(Arcana) due to their magical abilities. This bonus increases by +2 every six additional levels.

Arcane Exhaustion: A sorceror may in times of need use more magical energy than is normally possible. At 3rd Level and above, a sorceror gains an extra pool of spell points equal to his constitution modifier plus half his sorceror level, rounded down. If any of these spell points are used, the sorceror is exhausted for the rest of the day. Spells and abilities which normally would reduce or eliminate exhaustion do not work for this effect; the sorceror can only become fully energized again by resting. At 9th level, the sorceror learns to master this ability so that he is only fatigued after using it. These spellpoints do not regenerate every day as normal spellpoints do; after being used they regenerate at a rate per day equal to 1 + the sorceror's constitution modifier, minimum of 1 per day.

Bloodline Ability: At 6th, 10th , 14th and 18th levels, a sorceror can choose one of the abilities below:

Elemental Power: Whenever the sorceror's spell does damage of the favored element to any creature or object with resistance, treat that resistance as 5 lower than it actually is, to a minimum of 0. This ability can be taken a second time, so that resistance is treated as 10 points lower than it actually is (still to a minimum of 0).

Improved Metamagic: The sorceror masters his ability to use metamagic feats with his spells. Any spell with a metamagic feat only costs 2 additional spellpoints instead of 3 (after the increase for the metamagic feat itself). This ability can be taken a second time to lower the metamagic cost to 1 additional spell point.

Flight: A sorceror's innate magic sometimes is manifested by the power to fly. A sorceror who selects this ability gains a spell-like ability similar to the spell Fly. This ability lets the sorceror fly for a number of rounds equal to 1 + his sorceror level / 2 per day (rounded down). This duration includes the round in which the ability is activated, and can be split into several uses for the day. A 17th level sorceror with the Flight ability could fly once for four rounds, then again for three rounds, then again for one round. The ability ends as the spell Fly would, with the sorceror drifting slowly to the ground, whether the sorceror chose to end his flight or if the daily duration is met. Activating this ability is a move action.

Draconic Feat: A sorceror may choose to select any Draconic feat instead of one of these abilities. This option may be chosen multiple times.

Element Familiarity: At 4th level, a Sorceror's familiarity with his associated element allows him to spend less energy casting spells with that descriptor. He spends one less spell point on each casting of a spell with the elemental descriptor matching his associated Dragon's element. This benefit increases to -2 at 8th level, to -3 at 12th level, and to -4 at 16th level. The minimum number of spell points used to cast any spell is still 1, except for Level 0 spells which still cost 0 points.

Shield: Starting at 5th level, a sorceror can spontaneously protect himself from harm. As an immediate action (during anyone's turn, not just his own) a sorceror can use an effect similar to the spell Shield as a spell-like ability. This Shield functions only until the next attack on the sorceror has been resolved, or until the end of the round, whichever is first. If a sorceror shields himself and is not attacked in that round, it still counts as use of the ability. Like the spell, it grants +4 AC and protection from magic missile spells. The sorceror gains additional uses of this ability at 10th and 15th levels. At 11th level, the AC bonus granted by the Shield ability increases to +6, and at 19th level it increases to +8

Hurried Metamagic: Beginning at 7th level, sorcerors can cast a metamagic spell without increasing the casting time. All spells take the same amount of time to cast, whether there was a metamagic feat applied or not. This does not apply to the metamagic feat Quicken Spell. At 13th level, the sorceror gains the ability to use the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to reduce the casting time of a spell.

Greater Arcane Exhaustion: At 17th level, the sorceror gains another extra pool of spell points equal to his constitution modifier plus half his sorceror level. These spell points can be used if the first pool of spell points is empty (or in conjunction with those points to cast a single spell). If the sorceror uses any of these points, he is dropped to -1 hitpoints, unconscious and dying after the spell is cast. If the sorceror is then healed to consciousness, or if he has any feat or ability that allows him to remain conscious at negative hitpoints, he is considered fatigued because of the usage of his first bonus pool. These regenerate at the same rate as the first bonus pool.

Triaxx
2007-05-03, 10:32 AM
Excellent redesign. I love the ability's. Can I retake Flight multiple times to give me additional uses, and how far and with what manueverability can I fly?

Fax Celes.. Guide to homebrewing has premade table codes for classes and such. It's stickied at the top of the board.

brian c
2007-05-03, 11:16 AM
Excellent redesign. I love the ability's. Can I retake Flight multiple times to give me additional uses, and how far and with what manueverability can I fly?

I specifically didn't allow Flight to be taken multiple times, since that's a pretty useful ability. Maneuverability and speed are the same as the spell Fly, 60ft and good. Pretty much the only difference between the spell and this ability is the extremely limited duration.


Fax Celes.. Guide to homebrewing has premade table codes for classes and such. It's stickied at the top of the board.

I do very much appreciate those, but I posted this at like 3am and I didn't feel like doing anything. I promise I'll make the tables nice very soon.

brian c
2007-05-03, 02:17 PM
ahem... *bump*

Any other questions, comments, concerns, criticisms, praise, anything? Does this seem balanced, keeping in mind it's for a high-powered game?

Triaxx
2007-05-03, 03:15 PM
Very nice. Elemental Familiarity got stuck into the Bloodline Ability list, just under Draconic Feat.

I like it. My Sorceror character is going to have a new variation soon.

brian c
2007-05-03, 09:06 PM
I'm still hoping that someone will notice this and tell me what they think (no offense Triaxx, just hoping that more people comment).

Also, a clarification: The Shield ability cannot be activated if the Sorcerer is flat-footed

Zeta Kai
2007-05-03, 09:17 PM
Oh, so this what you were talking about on the bio-mage thread. Hmm, not bad. Let me dissect it a bit first, then I'll cast down judgment from on high.

For the record, it Sorcerer, not Sorceror. The Spellcheck God has spoken.

brian c
2007-05-03, 09:43 PM
For the record, it Sorcerer, not Sorceror. The Spellcheck God has spoken.

I realized this afterwards; for some reason Open Office thinks that "sorceror" is an acceptable spelling so I never noticed it there. I'm too lazy to go back and change all of the times I said that in my post though. (for the record, I said "sorceror" 40 times, not including in the title)

Hey, how about this: my new class is called the Sorceror, to distinguish it from the core D&D class Sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

Demented
2007-05-03, 11:51 PM
It could be a british spelling. Then again, wouldn't that be "sorcerour"?

JaronK
2007-05-04, 12:38 AM
Well, it's very strong, since you get all those abilities, plus 9th level arcane spells. Obviously, I can't balance it to whatever your other people get, but the problem with sorcerers isn't raw power, it's flexibility. You've upped their power, but I don't see how their flexibility goes up.

JaronK

brian c
2007-05-04, 01:56 AM
Well, it's very strong, since you get all those abilities, plus 9th level arcane spells. Obviously, I can't balance it to whatever your other people get, but the problem with sorcerers isn't raw power, it's flexibility. You've upped their power, but I don't see how their flexibility goes up.

JaronK

Well, I know it isn't in the chart but this is intended to use spellpoints, which in theory increases the sorcerer's flexibility. The real issue there is with spells known, but I don't think I want to change that really, could break the class more than is necessary :smallsmile:

Zeta Kai
2007-05-04, 07:03 AM
This is very interesting. As it is written, this is a lot like to the bio-mage that Iíve been post for a while now. Iím sure that it is a complete coincidence, but the similarities are quite notable:

1) This is a heavy overhaul of the sorcerer.

2) This uses a point system to empower spells.

3) This uses a fatigue/exhaustion mechanic to slow down the casting reload speed.

4) This uses Constitution as a key ability.

5) There are no dead levels; all levels have a new or evolved feature.

6) Despite all of the filled levels, this removes the Summon Familiar class feature.

I could go on, but you get the idea. What I find to be the most striking similarity is the Shield ability. Now, the bio-mage does not have anything directly analogous. However, for the longest time I did have a scaling Bio-Shield feature that granted a personal armor bonus as a swift action for a few rounds (+1AC/1 round, +2AC/2 rounds, etc). I scrapped them when I realized that Bio-Boost produced a nearly-identical effect when used to buff Dexterity, but that elimination came quite late in the development cycle. Your shield feature is nearly identical in function to the Bio-Shield, which was left unposted.

Again, I like this Sorcerer variant. Sorcerers are underpowered compared to the Wizard, so I think that they do need to be pumped up a bit. And I honestly donít think that youíve intentionally plagiarized the bio-mage. It is eerie though how alike they are.

brian c
2007-05-04, 11:46 AM
Again, I like this Sorcerer variant. Sorcerers are underpowered compared to the Wizard, so I think that they do need to be pumped up a bit. And I honestly donít think that youíve intentionally plagiarized the bio-mage. It is eerie though how alike they are.

Well, I appreciate your comments, and I admire your work enough that it's almost an honor to be not-quite accused of plagiarism. If it would make you feel any better though, I originally posted a bunch of these ideas here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40070), almost 3 weeks before you posted the Bio-Mage. The Shield ability is one of my favorites- I thought of it on a long bus ride when I had nothing else to do as a way to occasionally help out a squishy character but also have really nice flavor. It's neat that you thought of something similar though- I suppose great minds think alike? :smallwink:

puppyavenger
2007-05-04, 08:37 PM
Sorcerers are underpowered compared to the Wizard


wait, classes need to be balenced to the WIZZARD

brian c
2007-05-05, 12:57 AM
5) There are no dead levels; all levels have a new or evolved feature.


I just wanted to go back and mention this: just for aesthetic reasons, this was really the most important thing to me. I hate it when I have a character level up and I don't even get anything new for it. And new spells known don't count, I'm just talking about class abilites. I spent a lot of time trying to rearrange the abilities I had thought of so that there were no dead levels; for instance that's why the Arcane Exhaustion abilities are at levels 3/9/17. It would be great to make it even, like how Ancestral Knowledge is just every 6 levels, but then nothing ends up being at 13th or 17th or 19th levels.


Anyway, for anyone reading this: do you think I should give it a first Bloodline Ability at level 2? Then a couple of the choices would probably get minimum level requirements, particularly flight.

Also, tune in soon for another base class for this campaign: the Mystic. Basically it'll be a spontaneous divine caster, designed as a replacement for the cleric in less civilized cultures. I have finals coming up so I probably won't post it soon, but should be within 2 weeks, at most.

Triaxx
2007-05-05, 04:00 AM
All classes fail before the might of the WIZZARD.

I think Bloodline is too strong for 2nd level, unless you add another low power ability to it.

brian c
2007-05-05, 12:52 PM
All classes fail before the might of the WIZZARD.

I think Bloodline is too strong for 2nd level, unless you add another low power ability to it.

Please keep in mind that this is not meant exactly as a standard D&D class for a by-the-books game; if anyone wants to adopt it as such it's fine by me, but I made the class specifically for my homebrew setting, and in this setting Sorcerers are much more powerful than Wizards, or even WIZZARDS.

Basically in this setting, dragons are the source of all arcane magic, sorcerers are dragonblooded people who have a natural affinity with magic, and wizards are the guys who have to study all their lives to learn a few cantrips, and can only cast spells that they've already spent time preparing in the morning.

Dragons don't tend to like wizards very much, and some evil-aligned dragons in particular hunt them down to punish them for trying to take magic from the dragons.

PirateMonk
2007-05-05, 07:13 PM
It could be a british spelling. Then again, wouldn't that be "sorcerour"?

Sourcerer. Read more Terry Pratchett.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-05-05, 07:43 PM
so called because they are the "source" of magic. The 8th son of a 8th son who's father was a wizard is a sourcerer. ANd if he comes, then the teatime of the gods is nigh, and the ice giants will refuse to stop vacuaming their flat at 3 i n the morning. Wait, no, thats why the two are enemy's.

mauslin
2007-06-22, 09:01 PM
How come you can only be decended from a dragon? :smallfrown:
A sorcerer that I'm playing right now gets their powers from a fey ancestory (specifically a nymph ancestor).

Also, how would this work with Bloodline Feats? A Bloodline Feat is sorcerer specific feat that allows you a list of bonus spells known, in exchange for giving up the ability to cast a subset of spells (even as another class or from a scroll). I really like these feats personally.

Examples

Air Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Air_Bloodline,all)
Draconic Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Draconic_Bloodline,all)
Aquatic Fey Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Aquatic_Fey_Bloodline,all)

brian c
2007-06-22, 09:27 PM
How come you can only be decended from a dragon? :smallfrown:
A sorcerer that I'm playing right now gets their powers from a fey ancestory (specifically a nymph ancestor).

Also, how would this work with Bloodline Feats? A Bloodline Feat is sorcerer specific feat that allows you a list of bonus spells known, in exchange for giving up the ability to cast a subset of spells (even as another class or from a scroll). I really like these feats personally.

Examples

Air Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Air_Bloodline,all)
Draconic Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Draconic_Bloodline,all)
Aquatic Fey Bloodline (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Aquatic_Fey_Bloodline,all)

This class is for use in my own homebrewed campaign setting. In this setting, arcane magic comes from dragons, and only dragons can use arcane magic inherently. Other races can study as wizards, but only those descended from dragons can become sorcerers. In my games with this setting (haven't had any yet) I will not allow any sort of feat, trait, bloodline etc that deals with spontaneous magic from Fey, Demons, or other sources.

That having been said, feel free to use this class in any other setting with whatever modifications that you (or your DM) see fit- if you want to be descended from Fey, you can still do that. Keep in mind though that this class is pretty high-powered, and will fit in best in a high-power and/or high-magic setting.

Triaxx
2007-06-23, 07:14 AM
True but using it as a base, it works fantastically. It's very well setup for any sort of heritage. Be it dragons, or gods.

brian c
2007-06-23, 10:12 AM
True but using it as a base, it works fantastically. It's very well setup for any sort of heritage. Be it dragons, or gods.

Thank you. :smallbiggrin: I'm going to tinker with it a little bit more probably and repost it again when I'm done with the whole setting.

Wraithy
2007-06-23, 10:55 AM
Magical Blood: At 1st level, a Sorceror must designate a dragon heritage which explains his inherent magical abilities. The Dragons, alignments, and associated elements are:

{table=head]Dragon Color|Element|Alignment|Other allowed alignments

Brass|
Fire|
CG|
CN, NG

Black|
Fire|
CE|
CN, NE

Copper|
Acid|
CG|
CN, NG

Green|
Acid|
CE|
CN, NE

Silver|
Cold|
LG|
LN, NG

White|
Cold|
LE|
LN, NE

Gold|
Fire|
LG|
LN, NG

Red|
Fire|
CE|
CN, NE

Bronze|
Electricity|
LG|
LN, NG

Blue|
Electricity|
LE|
LN, NE[/table]

.

why is the green dragon chaotic?

brian c
2007-06-23, 11:55 AM
why is the green dragon chaotic?

I changed some of the dragon alignments to make it balanced- there are 10 dragon types, 5 good, 5 evil, 5 lawful, 5 chaotic. I also changed the Black dragon breath weapon from Acid to Fire, for the same general balancing purpose. Each element has one good dragon and one evil dragon (except fire which has two of each)

Triaxx
2007-06-23, 04:43 PM
There's a slight mistake in your table (I think), shouldn't the Red Dragon be LE? But it's interesting, I'm curious as to why there aren't any neutral dragons, or is that a plot point we aren't supposed to ask about?

brian c
2007-06-23, 08:33 PM
There's a slight mistake in your table (I think), shouldn't the Red Dragon be LE? But it's interesting, I'm curious as to why there aren't any neutral dragons, or is that a plot point we aren't supposed to ask about?

It was intentional that Gold dragons are LG and Red dragons are CE. Since those are the two more powerful types, they're kinda the ancestors of the others and are complete opposites.

As for the lack of Neutral dragons, well, there aren't any in the Monster Manual either. There's no particular significance in my campaign for the lack of neutral dragons.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-06-23, 08:55 PM
AHA! It's time for Gynnie to make new neutral dragons. To distinguish from the already made gem, planar, chromatic, and metallic, these are the Primal Dragons.
These are animalistic dragons, with the low intelligence, and lower lifespans. (a bit off topic, but) I like your change around of dragons. It makes sense. To fit with that theme, ill have to make 5 primal dragons, which are true neutral.

Triaxx
2007-06-24, 07:04 AM
I meant because there's also the CE Black dragon. Acid doesn't have an LE dragon either, which is odd, because cold and electricity both have an LE variant.

I'll have to think on no Neutral Dragons. I've had the idea of a Diamond Dragon (seperate from the Gem Dragon), as sort of a more powerful than Force Dragon.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-15, 06:47 PM
Very nice. More powerful than a standard sorcerer as you originally posted but balanced compared to a UA or D20 SRD spellcaster with 5 open feats to spend as desired leveling up without a PRC and trading them out for fixed abilities. I like it because it costs the PC something to PRC.

I also like the idea of sorcerers casting a few spells differently than other arcane casters and being able to do something a standard arcane caster normally can not. Receiving Wujen +1 meta spell secrets which don't increase the spell level for the Wujen every few levels is nice.

Ganon11
2007-09-30, 06:19 PM
I like it a lot. Can I request a table of some sort showing how spellpoints are determined? Do you get a certain amount per day?

Yakk
2007-09-30, 07:19 PM
Having one class be "better" than another is a poor design decision. Classes should all be envious of each other. Basically, wizards shouldn't be "gimp sorcerers", unless you want to make them an NPC class (or Sorcerers an NPC class).

If you want to have it canon that "Sorcerers are more powerful", then just make higher level Sorcerers more common than higher level Wizards.

...

The base spellcasting of the class is important and missing. How does it progress?

...

Try stealing my:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55220
for a Sorcerer-based melee spellcasting class.

brian c
2007-09-30, 09:15 PM
It's alive! Hm, hadn't seen any activity here in a while. Unfortunately, due to time restraints on my part this campaign has been shelved, though I wish to get back to it at some point, probably adapting for 4e if possible (and if I like 4e that much). I'll take questions now. I see a hand up in the back?


I like it a lot. Can I request a table of some sort showing how spellpoints are determined? Do you get a certain amount per day?

Spellpoints are used like described in Unearthed Arcana, or online here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm). You get a certain number of spellpoints each day, and they replenish after your normal 8 hours of rest. I'd lean towards giving slightly more points than the sorcerer gets according to the website, but not by a whole lot. I never really figured that out.


Having one class be "better" than another is a poor design decision. Classes should all be envious of each other. Basically, wizards shouldn't be "gimp sorcerers", unless you want to make them an NPC class (or Sorcerers an NPC class).

If you want to have it canon that "Sorcerers are more powerful", then just make higher level Sorcerers more common than higher level Wizards.

Well, in regular D&D wizards are more powerful, regardless of how many high level wizards and sorcerers there are. I want to reverse that.


The base spellcasting of the class is important and missing. How does it progress?

Progression in terms of spells known is the same as the base sorcerer.

Yakk
2007-10-01, 08:44 AM
Well, in regular D&D wizards are more powerful, regardless of how many high level wizards and sorcerers there are. I want to reverse that.

It was not the design goal to make Wizards more powerful than Sorcerers. Sorcerers got more spells/day -- which was considered powerful -- and where made worse in other ways.

The goal was a tradeoff -- if the tradeoff failed, fix the tradeoff, don't try to break the game in another direction.

As an aside, take a bit of guildance from 4e developers: special abilities that refer to spells are more complex and harder to understand than special abilities that are self-contained.

Dragonmuncher
2007-10-01, 12:21 PM
I like it!

One suggestions, though- how about some sort of capstone ability? Rewarding a player for taking the class all the way to level 20 by giving him yet another +2 to Knowledge: Arcana is kind of depressing, no?

Dunno what that ability would BE, of course...

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-04, 01:43 AM
I like it!

One suggestions, though- how about some sort of capstone ability? Rewarding a player for taking the class all the way to level 20 by giving him yet another +2 to Knowledge: Arcana is kind of depressing, no?

Dunno what that ability would BE, of course...

At level 20 let the sorcerer apply several +1 Meta Oriental Adventure's "Wujen" Spell Secrets to known spells without changing their level.

It allows the PC to tweak a few choice spells without burning feats for limited known spells.