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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Homemade druid variant, too powerful??



Xailiax
2015-07-26, 09:44 PM
Hello all, other than my salutation post this is my first time posting here so sorry if this is in the wrong place!!

Have a character in mind for a friends campaign that's a druid, spells mostly towards buffing and healing his animal companion, and otherwise focuses on ranged combat.

One with Humanity(humanoids in general, not just human specifically.): This druid believes that the humanoid form is just as much a thing of nature as the trees and animals of his forest homeland. He gives up the ability to take on animal forms in exchange for more sound physical prowess.

Effect: This druid loses the ability to use the Wild Shape class feature but gains Base Attack Bonus progression as a Fighter.

This is my friends first time DMing so I don't want to do anything to overpower his campaign. Personally I think I'd be giving up more than I'm gaining because wild shape is pretty darn powerful, but it just doesn't fit the image I have for this character, nor do any of the other Druid variants that give it up.

Thoughts or concerns?

Network
2015-07-26, 10:01 PM
I assume this is only an option for druids of level 5+ right?

Adam1949
2015-07-26, 10:06 PM
With a single action, I would say that you managed to drop the Druid down from Tier 1 to low Tier 2, possibly even high Tier 3.

Part of what makes the Druid so powerful is their Divine Magic, while the other major part is Wildshape. So, in doing this, you're nerfing the Druid hard. Not that this is a bad thing; indeed, your party will probably thank you for not stealing the spotlight later, especially if you have a Fighter on your team.

Xailiax
2015-07-26, 11:58 PM
I assume this is only an option for druids of level 5+ right?

That wasn't the plan, the physical training focus would sort of have to be a lifelong thing, wouldn't make too much sense if the druid suddenly got incredibly buff, @ least not to me.

Xailiax
2015-07-27, 12:01 AM
With a single action, I would say that you managed to drop the Druid down from Tier 1 to low Tier 2, possibly even high Tier 3.

Part of what makes the Druid so powerful is their Divine Magic, while the other major part is Wildshape. So, in doing this, you're nerfing the Druid hard. Not that this is a bad thing; indeed, your party will probably thank you for not stealing the spotlight later, especially if you have a Fighter on your team.

Part of the point of this is that I'm trying not to overpower my friends 1st campaign, if I were to use the druid in all of its glorious might I'd probably wrecking ball right through it.

The other thing like I said is just the image I have in mind for the character himself, like a ranger in physical aspect but still with the full druid spell access and animal companion progression.

AmberVael
2015-07-27, 12:05 AM
Adam is... substantially exaggerating on how hard this hits the druid (there are fair arguments to be made that their casting alone keeps in them tier 1, at least if you use it well), but this is definitely a hit to their power. I think it'd be fine, even at early levels- it does give you a bit of an early attack boost with no downside, but +1 attack isn't going to break anything.

Adam1949
2015-07-27, 01:37 AM
Upon second look, I seem to have been exaggerating. However, a big part of what makes the spells for a Druid so good is that when combined with Natural Spell the druid could turn into something difficult to target (like a songbird or a guppy) and cast from safety, or turn into a combat monster while still able to cast spells. The spell-list is still good, but the potency of it is lowered when you have to stand and be human-shaped like everyone else.

Network
2015-07-27, 01:54 AM
That wasn't the plan, the physical training focus would sort of have to be a lifelong thing, wouldn't make too much sense if the druid suddenly got incredibly buff, @ least not to me.
This does make the variant strictly better than a normal druid until level 5, given that you don't pay anything for the +1 BAB until level 5. And the increase makes a bigger difference at lower levels compared to higher levels.

For that matter, the loss of wild shape can be mitigated by many druid prestige classes. If you planned to take these classes before going druid 5, you get something for nothing from that variant. Just saying.

Xailiax
2015-07-27, 02:16 AM
This does make the variant strictly better than a normal druid until level 5, given that you don't pay anything for the +1 BAB until level 5. And the increase makes a bigger difference at lower levels compared to higher levels.

For that matter, the loss of wild shape can be mitigated by many druid prestige classes. If you planned to take these classes before going druid 5, you get something for nothing from that variant. Just saying.

Not planning on taking a prestige class of any sort, the loss of wild shape will be permanent, and I think the boost at lower level is more than mitigated by the loss of one of the druids best class skills. Overall I think the thing is going to be a nerf, which is ok because I don't wanna go wreck it Ralphing though my friends first shot at DMing lol.

Like AmberVael said, +1 attack isn't going to break anything.

Anyways the DM is going to allow it, going to take it on a trial run, if it turns out to be OP (which seems unlikely) I can just erase the variant and revert back to a normal druid with all the usual abilities.

eggynack
2015-07-31, 05:04 AM
You're a somewhat less broken druid, which is to say that you can still be quite broken. Yes, you are at an advantage early on, but it's marginal at best. The only serious problem on a broader context is that it makes that thing where a druid is better than classes at their own shtick, even early on, even more of an issue, but that's more of a problem of appearance than a problem of power. The silliness intrinsic to a first level druid versus first level monk or ranger comparison becomes even more silly when you add some BAB to the mix. It's just low impact silliness.

Your core question, however, was whether this is too powerful, and the answer is that I have no idea. If you want to know whether this is too powerful in comparison to a straight druid, then the answer is absolutely not. Wild shape is an incredibly powerful ability, especially in conjunction with other druid abilities, offering access to more stuff than I can realistically break down in a single post (by which I mean, the stuff I have on the subject may break post character limits, though I haven't checked). In a sense, you're best off just considering this a druid without wild shape rather than a druid making a trade, because that best represents the difference in scale here. But, if you're asking whether it's too powerful for your campaign, then I can only say that balance is relative and that it depends on the campaign. Druids do a lot of really crazy stuff, even without wild shape, and used right that stuff can be game breaking. You may well turn out OP, but it will be predicated on efficient spell use rather than on something about BAB.

Hanuman
2015-07-31, 07:11 AM
Text color hurts my eyes.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid#TOC-Wild-Shape-Su-

PF druid tends to be more balanced, you could easily just make a feat that allows you to stay in a humanoid physical form while using wildshape.

That way instead of using natural spell (eschew materials and natural spell should be druid core class features considering its taken every time), you are already under those effects anyway.

I mean, as long as the mechanics line up, and you're using a spell anyway, who cares right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsLQ-3NFWqI