FFG Star Wars initiative system in 5e

[TheTrueMooseman]

Hey everyone,

I tried posting this in Homebrew, but got nothing, sooo...

As the title says, I'm experimenting with implementing the initiative system from Fantasy Flight Games' Star Wars systems into my upcoming 5e game.

Players roll initiative as normal, but then any player may use any of the initiative values rolled to take their turn.

e.g. Player 1 rolls 4 for initiative, Player 2 rolls 2, Monster rolls 1

However, Player 2 has a buff ability that Player 1 wants to use, so Player 2 acts on initiative tick 4 to buff player 1, knowing that enemy won't be acting until 1 anyway.

Player 1 then acts on tick 2.

The question I want to ask is: will this break my game? I like the benefits that the system brings, with the increase in teamwork that I have seen it foster. It might also lead to a slight (slight!) decrease in the godliness of Dexterity, since if you absolutely must go first, you can always pinch the initiative value of the guy who already needs Dex for their class skills rather than making it essential to someone who otherwise has no use for it. On the other hand, people whose main schtick requires the initiative (looking at you, Assassin Rogue) don't get screwed by on bad roll. I can see it making combats slightly easier with the potential increase in synergy between players, but that seems like a small price to pay for players working together as a team. Plus, monsters can use it too!

BUT! Are there any downsides that I have missed?

[EvanescentHero]

So everyone rolls initiative, and then everyone picks which value they want to use? It's interesting, and I don't see too many problems with it as long as the party talks before they go. The only thing I'd suggest is making sure to keep the party's initiative separate from the enemy initiative. Otherwise the party's gonna take all the good ones!

[Stan]

It's going to give them a bit of an advantage but nothing you can't counter with harder encounters.
Spellcasters get to the advantage of getting off spells, especially aoe ones, before everyone else.

To some players, it could feel like a screw job. The go out of their way to build a fast character and are asked to give up their initiative half the time.

[TheTrueMooseman]

The only thing I'd suggest is making sure to keep the party's initiative separate from the enemy initiative. Otherwise the party's gonna take all the good ones!

Sorry, didn't make it terribly clear: this is already the case in the system. The party has a pool of values, from which everyone picks one, and the enemies have a pool of values, which are doled out by the GM as appropriate.



To some players, it could feel like a screw job. The go out of their way to build a fast character and are asked to give up their initiative half the time.

I see what you're saying, but in my experience people tend to treat it as another resource they can bring to the table to help the party as a whole - after all, no one complains about 'having' to use their spell slots on healing. Thanks for the input!

[Flashy]

My table just allows players to delay their turn to whatever point in the initiative order they want. So if player A, player B, the monsters, and player C have rolled initiative that puts them in that order then player A can choose to delay their turn until after player B, the monsters, or even player C.

[Psikerlord]

My table just allows players to delay their turn to whatever point in the initiative order they want. So if player A, player B, the monsters, and player C have rolled initiative that puts them in that order then player A can choose to delay their turn until after player B, the monsters, or even player C.

Same, we allow delays. Works well.

[Stan]

Allowing delays is great and allows people in front to go first and stuff. But it doesn't allow someone who rolled low the chance to go before the opponents like the above rule does.

[Joe the Rat]

So when someone chooses an initiative die, is it just for that turn, or do they stick with it for the entire combat. Or is initiative rolled each turn?

Where it gets weird is the individual modifiers. That 20Dex, Alert guy means somebody in the party - which may as well be the slow-as-molasses DEX 8 dwarf may go on initiative 30, ahead of any possible enemy. That may be working as intended, but it seems a little off.

I would be inclined to make the die rolls a pooled resource, but the individual modifiers stick with the characters. Depending on rolls, Mr. Fast and Skittish could grab the low die and still go first... but then the high die is still open, increasing the chances of other party members going before the enemies.


Overall, I do like how the system emphasizes teamwork.

[Dizlag]

Effectively, the Star War initiative system gives initiative slots to the PCs and Baddies. Initiative is rolled once, ties going to the PCs, and the slots are laid out as so, for example:

PC
Bad Guy
PC
PC
Bad Guy
PC

Then, every round the PCs decide which PC initiative slot to take and the DM decides which Bad Guy initiative slot to take, if he's got multiple groups. I can see the first encounter in the Mines of Phandelver having two Bad Guy initiative slots for my ranged goblins and melee goblins or goblins on the right side of the road and goblins on the left side of the road. =)

Yes, using this system a PC can go twice in a row if they choose to go last in round 1, then first in round 2. Perfectly fine. Same with the DM having the same group go second to last in round 1, then second in round 2.

It truly does encourage cooperation between the Players and makes the game a bit more engaging for them, in my opinion.

Dizlag

[ThermalSlapShot]

So when someone chooses an initiative die, is it just for that turn, or do they stick with it for the entire combat. Or is initiative rolled each turn?

Where it gets weird is the individual modifiers. That 20Dex, Alert guy means somebody in the party - which may as well be the slow-as-molasses DEX 8 dwarf may go on initiative 30, ahead of any possible enemy. That may be working as intended, but it seems a little off.

I would be inclined to make the die rolls a pooled resource, but the individual modifiers stick with the characters. Depending on rolls, Mr. Fast and Skittish could grab the low die and still go first... but then the high die is still open, increasing the chances of other party members going before the enemies.


Overall, I do like how the system emphasizes teamwork.


The 20 Dex Alert guy was delayed due to alerting an ally (using a code word or whatever) to do something about the incoming threat.

Rogue: Wiz, light up your right flank!

Wizard: Wha...*casts burning hands to their right without looking*... Holy crap I didn't even see that! Good job Rog!

Cleric: The three goblins never stood a chance, extra crispy is what you get when you try to sneak up on alpha team.

[Yoroichi]

[/QUOTE]

I dont like it. It promotes off game thinking, when there is a need to tone it down in order to preserve the roleplaying aspects of 5e.

[ThermalSlapShot]

I dont like it. It promotes off game thinking, when there is a need to tone it down in order to preserve the roleplaying aspects of 5e.[/QUOTE]

... But it doesn't stop/hurt roleplaying at all. No more than any other rule in the PHB at the very least.

Besides if you are going to roleplay, when you are rolling for initiative is one of the times that it doesn't really matter. You don't RP when you roll for initiative but when your character starts to act. So this doesn't change anything except it does help people change up their roleplaying when their character does act by allowing more diverse types of situations.

[Dizlag]

I dont like it. It promotes off game thinking, when there is a need to tone it down in order to preserve the roleplaying aspects of 5e.

I'm not sure what you mean by "off game thinking". Yes, every round the players decide on who's going first and I know for a fact that this initiative system engages the players into the game even more than the 5E initiative system. And a player that is more engaged in a game will roleplay better.

I think the assassin rogue would appreciate the first initiative slot even if he rolled a 1 on his initiative. I know I would allow the assassin rogue to take that first slot, even if I rolled a 20. D&D and RPGs in general have always been a cooperative game ... this initiative system helps promote it just a bit more.

And if I didn't in my last post, to the OP ... this initiative system will not break your game. Just remember as a DM, if you have multiple initiative slots then your baddies can go in any order as well.

Dizlag

[MadGrady]

I am intrigued by this idea, and I too prefer to buff the teamwork aspect.

One question - do you find that this mechanic slows down combat turns, as players present arguments as to why they should go when?

[EvanescentHero]

One question - do you find that this mechanic slows down combat turns, as players present arguments as to why they should go when?

Actually, I'd also like to know the answer to this question. That's the only real downside I can see. If it doesn't slow it down too much, I think I'm going to implement it in my campaign!

[TheTrueMooseman]

One question - do you find that this mechanic slows down combat turns, as players present arguments as to why they should go when?

It certainly does somewhat front-load the discussion. Basically, in my experience, everyone puts their heads together, discusses tactics for the round and then executes the plan, modifying it as the baddies take actions. No selfishness, no divas. It helps that after a few sessions players get a sense of what each other's characters can do, so they can suggest strategies and combos. I'd say there's a small increase in time taken per round, but it also gets the players more aware and engaged in what's going on, so the sacrifice is worth it in my opinion.

[Stan]

If the players like it and it makes everyone more engaged, that's all you really need to know.
I don't think it's for all personality types or groups but it's a cool idea overall.

[Epoch]

A simpler version of this I've seen is: Players roll initiative, DM rolls for Monsters. The initiative is now divided into two categories: Those who rolled better than the Monsters, and those who rolled worse. Any one who rolled better goes first, in any order they wish. Then the monsters go. Then whoever rolled worse goes in any order they wish.

[Dizlag]

It certainly does somewhat front-load the discussion. Basically, in my experience, everyone puts their heads together, discusses tactics for the round and then executes the plan, modifying it as the baddies take actions. No selfishness, no divas. It helps that after a few sessions players get a sense of what each other's characters can do, so they can suggest strategies and combos. I'd say there's a small increase in time taken per round, but it also gets the players more aware and engaged in what's going on, so the sacrifice is worth it in my opinion.

Yes. This ... so this!

I don't find it takes much longer as the combat progresses as Mooseman says, they get get know each other's abilities and put their heads together. Very much adding to the cooperation between players.

Dizlag

[EvanescentHero]

In this system, do players choose their assignments again every round? Or do they have the option to? I can see a situation coming up where it would be better to shuffle initiative counts around, and wanted to know your thoughts.

[Dizlag]

Yes, every round the player's decide their order and so does the DM if he's got multiple slots. They could keep their initiative slots if they want every round. Up to them. For instance, initiative is rolled and it might look like this ...

PC slot
Baddie slot
PC slot
PC slot
Baddie slot
PC slot

Round 1 could be Assassin Rogue, Goblin Archers, Human Fighter, Dwarf Cleric, Goblin Melee Skirmishers, Elf Wizard

Round 2 could be Elf Wizard, Goblin Skirmishers, Dwarf Cleric, Assassin Rogue, Goblin Archers, Human Fighter

Yes, Elf Wizard would have two turns in a row in this case. But it works both ways too for the DM. Nothing game breaking about it, but those "lasts until the end of your next turn" abilities could get interesting.

Again, it promotes more cooperation between the players, they're more interested when other players are taking their turn, and makes for a better experience in my humble opinion.

Dizlag

[EvanescentHero]

Dizlag

Thanks for the input! I just want to make sure I understand everything before I implement this.