Spidey's Archenemesis [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

kpenguin

2007-05-04, 03:39 AM

With Spiderman 3 coming out, my friend and I had a small argument over who was spiderman's greatest enemy. He believed it was Venom, primarily because of the dark mirror Venom seems to be of Spidey and the recent Reign series. I believe it's the Green Goblin, for numerous reasons, including but not limited to:
- the death of Gwen Stacy
- the (false) death of Aunt May
- the whole Clone Saga
- the insanity and eventual death of Peter's best friend, Harry

Superman has Lex Luthor, the X-Men has Magneto, but, to me, Spidey doesn't have a defined archnemesis. What do you guys think?

Dhavaer

2007-05-04, 04:39 AM

J Jonah Jameson.

DarkEternal

2007-05-04, 05:49 AM

Green Goblin is, and always will be Spider-man's arch enemy for there was no other character that crapped that much all over him both as Spider-man and as Peter Parker.

Venom? Venom is just another anti-hero slash villain and certainly not even up there to be something of his crown enemy. Doc Ock would be far closer, hell even Kraven would be for what he did to Pete.

Nevrmore

2007-05-04, 05:52 AM

The Shocker.

Nightwing

2007-05-04, 05:59 AM

Nerd-o-rama

2007-05-04, 06:48 AM

The Shocker.
'Nuff said.

Also, it seems like Green Goblin has done more supercriminal acts through retcon than actual activity in the comics. Plus, let's face it. Norman Osborn may have been a schizoid super-genius of the highest caliber, but he still picked an incredibly lame theme.

Finally, I wouldn't call Octavius a nemesis, but he's definitely my favorite Spider-villain, edging out Shocker and Venom for the title.

DarkEternal

2007-05-04, 06:50 AM

look it is so d. octopus. I will tell you why. you so cant use the Gwen's death because of this theory: Baron Zemo killed Bucky and freezes cap for 20 years, yet Red skull is still his arch enimy. thy only picked goblin for the 1st movie because at that time he was more popular.

Oh, Goblin did quite a bit more then just kill Gwen.

He also killed Ben Reilly, orchestrated the entire Clone Saga more or less, not to mention that he was repsonsible for Harry going quite mad, and in the end for the 616 death of Pete's baby.

kerberos

2007-05-04, 07:16 AM

I'd go with Greeny too. Doc Oc and Venom are big too, but they haven't done as much to Spiderman as GG and their relationship is far less personal IMO, even Venom.

storybookknight

2007-05-04, 07:55 AM

Spider-Man might qualify as Venom's nemesis, but Venom isn't spidey's.

If Spider-Man were Superman, Venom would be Doomsday - but everybody knows supe's nemesis is Lex Luthor.

kpenguin

2007-05-04, 09:53 AM

Looking back, Doc Ock is a very viable candidate. He started the Sinister Six, after all. I still think its Green Goblin, though.

Midnight Lurker

2007-05-04, 11:03 AM

The Clone Saga is Spidey's arch-nemesis.

Either that or Joe Quesada.

Overlard

2007-05-04, 11:52 AM

I'd say it's Norman Osbourne. Venom could have been it if he stayed the way he started out, but when he hit antihero-dom and get his own series, then he lost the opportunity.

Tiberian

2007-05-04, 02:38 PM

I'm definately going to go with Norman Osborn-Green Goblin. He has been responsible for almost every devastating thing that's happened to Peter Parker. He's the first to know his secret identity. Venom is more of an evil arch-rival then a nemesis, especially with Venom's repeated forays into anti-heroism.

Indon

2007-05-04, 02:44 PM

J Jonah Jameson.

You know, I agree with this guy. No spidey antagonist is as all-pervasive as JJJ is. Granted, he's not a supervillain, or even a regular villain; his antagonism is borne from a combination of meanspiritedness, greed, and semi-willful ignorance.

Nonetheless, he is the one thorn in spidey's side that has never been removed.

king korath

2007-05-04, 02:49 PM

Jameson is not really Spidey's Archenemesis. I have to follow the norman Osborne people, because of the sheer trama that he caused Peter. Not only did he kill Gwen Stacy but he even tried to destroy his identity in the clone saga. Also the ultimate clone sage was better done than the 616.

kpenguin

2007-05-04, 02:51 PM

Jameson is an ally in Reign, but I don't think that counts. While its true that he is one of themost persistent of Spidey's enemies, he hasn't done anything that bad to Peter other than slandering him in his paper. Plus, without Jameson, being Spiderman would have been more difficult since there are few other newspapers than the Daily Bugle that need Spidey pictures so desperately.

Indon

2007-05-04, 02:59 PM

Well, Jameson isn't _parker's_ nemesis, Parker's a good kid, he does solid photography work. The fact that this happens to help Spiderman is, I do believe, a bit of classic irony.

kpenguin

2007-05-04, 03:05 PM

Uh... have you read Civil War? JJJ knows Spidey is Pete now.

Indon

2007-05-04, 03:48 PM

Uh... have you read Civil War? JJJ knows Spidey is Pete now.

Well, considering Spider-Man actually came out and registered himself, he can probably get himself a respectable job unrelated to his secret identity or the Bugle.

Or did he actually still sell pictures to the Bugle?

StudlyDuck

2007-05-04, 07:33 PM

Definitely the Green Goblin. Nobody else has caused as much lasting damage to Spidey.

OOTS_Rules.

2007-05-04, 08:50 PM

Green Goblin IS lame, though. He has PUMPKIN POWER!!! I am SOOOO scared!!

Doc Ock and Venom may be cooler, but the Lame Goblin is his iconic archenemy. Or mabye that guy that killed Ben. He is also a candidate.

Sage in the Playground

2007-05-04, 08:53 PM

I think its the Green Goblin.

Jerthanis

2007-05-04, 09:46 PM

Green Goblin IS lame, though. He has PUMPKIN POWER!!! I am SOOOO scared!!

Green Goblin does look silly, but in addition to the Pumpkin grenades (I'm scared of anyone with a grenade, no matter what it looks like) he's got a crapload of other superpowers, from superstrength/invulnerability (comperable to Spidey's own) to wrist mounted laser cannons, to razor bats to... anything he wants really. He's a high level threat, and the fact that he came out of a period of time where silly character designs were prevalent doesn't mean he's a bad villain.

GG is definately Spidey's true Archnemesis. Venom is perhaps more dangerous, since he's stronger, faster, and doesn't set off Spidey's spider sense, but it's been the GG at every turn that's been the real antagonist to Peter's life and times.

OOTS_Rules.

2007-05-04, 10:01 PM

I know, but by LG standards, which values style over power, GG would be as undesirable as cancer. Seriously, he died because of his glider, sings "The Itsy, Bitsy Spider" in the movie, and uses pumpkins as weapons.

Mewtarthio

2007-05-04, 10:06 PM

Definately Norman Osbourne. Octavius gets honorable mention, since he was Spidey's arch-nemesis for a good amount of time, but once the comic started taking a darker turn, Osbourne supplanted Doc Ock. Namely, when he killed Gwen Stacy.

Jameson is an ally in Reign, but I don't think that counts. While its true that he is one of themost persistent of Spidey's enemies, he hasn't done anything that bad to Peter other than slandering him in his paper. Plus, without Jameson, being Spiderman would have been more difficult since there are few other newspapers than the Daily Bugle that need Spidey pictures so desperately.

Actually, it's libel. I know, that seems to be a little nitpicky, but there's a difference.

Particularly for Spider-Man. Remember Shanthra, the astral wasp girl? Sure, write in the paper that Spidey's a menace out to destroy society, and he'll laugh at you, but get on a late night news station and claim that he's got strange sexual habits, and *BOOM* it's "Spider Totem Rage! Time to die!"

Finn Solomon

2007-05-04, 11:08 PM

Spidey has his fair share of villains, but GG was the one to make it personal. Definitely him. Closely followed by Doc Ock, then maybe Venom.

Logic

2007-05-04, 11:50 PM

I agree with Green Goblin being Spider-Man's archnemesis. Spider-Man is also probably the archnemesis of:

Doctor Octopus
Vulture
Venom
Shocker
Rhino

And other countless A-, B- and C-list supervillans. A good deal of Spider-Man's villians are not encountered outside of a Spider-Man story.

Nerd-o-rama

2007-05-05, 08:22 AM

kerberos

2007-05-05, 09:50 AM

Yeah. I realized that yesterday. Most of Spider-Man's rogue's gallery consists entirely of people with a vendetta against him, personally (Venom, GG, Octavius), with the rest being small-time crooks who have lucked or brained into superpowers (Sandman, Shocker et al). Hell, the latter usually end up revenge-driven monomaniacs after an issue or two anyway.

I believe this is in large part due to the fact that Spidey's not a very high-level hero as far as Marvel goes. If any of his usual nemeses rise high enough to attract the attention of, say, the Fantastci Four, they're pretty much toast. So, the villains Spidey does have are all near and dear to his heart, or simply low-tier, bank-robbing villains.
I think that the Frightful had the Sansman as a member at some point and Venom has fought other heroes too. Still in general you are correct. It is IMO a bit interesting that while Spiderman is definitely A-list when it comes to popularity and sales, he is as you say really only B-list in terms of the Marvel universe, though his recent role in Civil War and the New Avengers arguably moves him a bit up.

kpenguin

2007-05-05, 11:47 AM

Norman's rich enough and smart enough to attract the attention of other high-level heroes. He's the leader of the Thunderbolts afterall. Also, he has big publicity in the Marvel-verse, partly because of JJJ and partly because he's friends with and has teamed up with nearly every Marvel hero there is, certainly all of the big name ones.

Lord of the Helms

2007-05-05, 12:00 PM

I'm kind of torn between Green Goblin and J Jonaj Jameson myself. Jameson certainly is by far the most persistent enemy of his, but Osbourne, being a supervillain and all, has done the worst things to him.

The Shocker.

More accurately: The Shocker isn't Spidey's archnemesis, but Spidey most definitely is the Shocker's archnemesis :smallwink:

I believe this is in large part due to the fact that Spidey's not a very high-level hero as far as Marvel goes. If any of his usual nemeses rise high enough to attract the attention of, say, the Fantastci Four, they're pretty much toast. So, the villains Spidey does have are all near and dear to his heart, or simply low-tier, bank-robbing villains.

Pretty much true. I felt Spiderman was pretty damn useless in the new Avengers as soon as they went up against anyone with serious powers. Hell, he couldn't even do much more than mildly annoy/distract the Wrecker.

kerberos

2007-05-05, 12:54 PM

Pretty much true. I felt Spiderman was pretty damn useless in the new Avengers as soon as they went up against anyone with serious powers. Hell, he couldn't even do much more than mildly annoy/distract the Wrecker.

The Avengers have frequently had low power heroes, Cap for one or Black Widow for anotehr. Now with the post civil war NA they have a problems. Everyone in the outfit with the exception of Doctor Strange is B or C-list and he is a rather non-conventional hero. I wonder how they're going to handle that.

The Extinguisher

2007-05-06, 12:36 AM

I am going to go with JJJ. Either that, or himself.

Because as much as the Spider-man series is all about beating up villians and stopping crimes and the like, it's also about his inner strugle with himself over the whole being Spider-man.

Sure the Green Goblin may have caused all this crap to him, but if we're measuring it based on emotional trauma, then shouldn't it be the guy who killed Uncle Ben?

JJJ is easily is Spider-man's archnemesis. He may not be super powered, but that doesn't really matter.

kpenguin

2007-05-06, 12:51 AM

True, but part of being a hero's archnemesis is having the hero hate you. While Peter might get a bit angry at JJJ time to time, partly because he's obnoxious and partly because of the whole "spiderman is public enemy #1" thing, he doesn't hate JJJ. Without that hate, I don't think that Peter would consider JJJ his archnemesis.

Logic

2007-05-06, 12:56 AM

I think that the Frightful had the Sansman as a member at some point and Venom has fought other heroes too. Still in general you are correct. It is IMO a bit interesting that while Spiderman is definitely A-list when it comes to popularity and sales, he is as you say really only B-list in terms of the Marvel universe, though his recent role in Civil War and the New Avengers arguably moves him a bit up.

In a recent Moon Knight comic/Graphic Novel, Moon knight goes into a mental monolouge about how Spiderman is dealing with all the B-List supervillians, The Avengers take care of Alien invasions, the Fantastic Four are supposed to deal with the mole men and such.

Tiberian

2007-05-06, 02:35 AM

J. Jonah Jameson is a foil, not an archnemesis. Although, in the first 38 issues, Jameson tried to have Spidey killed/captured at least twice (first by creating Scorpion and then utilizing the first Spider-Slayer). Now, Jameson is just a foil.

Callos_DeTerran

2007-05-15, 08:48 PM

>.>.....What about the Chameleon? The first spidey super villian.

kpenguin

2007-05-16, 12:30 PM

>.>.....What about the Chameleon? The first spidey super villian.

Moleman was the first FF villian, I think. But Doom is their archnemesis.

Joran

2007-05-16, 02:05 PM

Actually, it's libel. I know, that seems to be a little nitpicky, but there's a difference.

Correct. Slander is spoken, libel is written.

From the movie:

"It is not! I resent that! Slander is spoken. In print it's libel. What are you, his lawyer, get lost! Let him sue me, get rich like a normal human being!"

A cheeky answer might be his own conscience ;)

I don't know enough of the comics to give a firm answer. The movies don't really have an archenemy like Magneto is in X-Men.

The Extinguisher

2007-05-16, 11:44 PM

In a recent Moon Knight comic/Graphic Novel, Moon knight goes into a mental monolouge about how Spiderman is dealing with all the B-List supervillians, The Avengers take care of Alien invasions, the Fantastic Four are supposed to deal with the mole men and such.

Except for Venom, Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, among so many other villians >.>

But Spider-man does make that point in an issue of Marvel Team-Up where he teams up with Invincible. He tells the rest of the Avengers to "hang back here and wait for the cosmic stuff"

Nightmarenny

2007-05-17, 12:11 AM

Except for Venom, Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, among so many other villians >.>

But Spider-man does make that point in an issue of Marvel Team-Up where he teams up with Invincible. He tells the rest of the Avengers to "hang back here and wait for the cosmic stuff"Venom and Carnage have a painfully easily exploited weakness for a team with enough money(Spidy is neither) Doc Ock( in standard cont.) is a normal guy with arms. Granted as a mad scientist he's par. Green Goblin is the only one the really holds up. No easy weakness, murderer(moreso), various kick ass weapons and super power .

Green Goblin is the nemesis. He has the hate, personal attacks and orcostates every huge plan when the writers need a way out. Along with that after his(first death) Goblins apeared every other comic. Why? Spidy needs his Nemesis.

Venom is a foil. Everything Spidy isn't but could be.OTher than that he's nothing, and to a degree most of his villions are foils.

Green Goblin
Scorpion
Dr Ock
Almost everyone what with the "with great power" speach.

king korath

2007-05-17, 12:42 AM

The Green Goblin. He killed Gwen Stacy, which is one of the defining spidey story arcs.

Tallis

2007-05-23, 11:05 AM

I'm going to have to go Green Goblin. He has done more to ruin Peter's life than any other villain (though Spidey has done quite a bit to himself as well). He took the archnemesis title away from Doc Ock, who was also the original dark mirror of Spidey: scientific genius, multiple arms approximate Spider-Man's strength, speed, and agility (as well as making him somewhat spider-like).
Venom is a thug, he definitely does not rate archvillain or archnemesis status.

Jayabalard

2007-05-23, 11:19 AM

Spider-Man might qualify as Venom's nemesis, but Venom isn't spidey's../agree

Definitely Green Goblin

Rincewind

2007-05-23, 12:57 PM

Avi Arad and Stan Lee... And the director of the movie. And the scriptwriters. And Tobey. And of course that girl... :cool:

Teal Kuinshi

2007-05-24, 03:26 PM

Wasn't the Scorpion specifically created to defeat Spider-man?:smallamused:

But really, either Dr. Octopus or the Green Goblin. Or both. You can't have too many archnemesis'.

Mewtarthio

2007-05-24, 06:16 PM

Wasn't the Scorpion specifically created to defeat Spider-man?:smallamused:

Yes, but the sheer number of enemies created for the sole purpose of destroying the wall-crawler is enormous. And that doesn't count all the astral spider-totem-related monsters that wish to destroy him because he is the essence of Spider or somesuch magobabble (Shanthra, Miss Arrow, that big guy made entirely out of spiders, etc).