The Dread Necromancer: A Hero of Horror

[Michael7123]

Dread Necromancer

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The tiefling soldier plunged her greatsword right through the chest of her enemy, who's eyes were first wide with fear, then with pain. With the killing blow dealt, she staggered back towards a rock and sat down, thoroughly exhausted. Grumbling, she pulls out a book and heads back to the body of her slain foe. If nothing else, the man's strength would be useful for her now.

A drow cultist of Orcus smiles as he watches the human paladin get overwhelmed by wave after wave of his reanimated minions, some of whom were the paladin's former allies. Between her screams of pain, the cultist manages to here the occasional sob from the holy woman, probably as a result of seeing the bodies of her friends defiled not only by the taint of necromancy, but by the demons of the abyss as well. Although it takes a bit longer than he expected, the paladin is soon slain, and would soon be another body in his ever growing army.

A human mage at a wizardry college plows through book after book, staying up all hours of the night on a regular basis. He knew it was in here somewhere. His powers over necromancy had made him an outcast to all, and the fact that he choose to restrain himself and not slaughter those who wanted him dead out of ignorance did not win him any favors with his enemies. It likely wouldn't take very long until some mage realized that he was the son of a lich, and he was driven out again. That was, of course, unless he found a way to cure his condition first.

Dread Necromancers all have the taint of undeath flowing through their veins. Not all people with this curse recognize it, and many go out to live uneventful and mundane lives. Some truly depraved souls go seeking out this power, which is happely granted to them by fiends who use them as puppets to further their own agendas. Others are merely the offspring of undead beings, such as vampires or undead. Whatever the case, the one thing all Dread Necromancers have in common is their power over the school of necromancy. Many people, upon discovering these powers, are slowly tempted into committing fouler and fouler acts until their souls are darker than the fiends they serve. A very small number, however, do everything in their power to fight against these impulses, and to use their powers for noble ends.

Taint of Undeath:
All Dread Necromancers derive their power from the same source: the taint of undeath that is part of their bodies and souls. In this way, they are similar to sorcerers, who also commonly drive their powers through their ancestry. However, where a sorcerer's magic is broad in scope, a Dread Necromancer's magic, as the name implies, is focused almost entirely on the school of necromancy.

Furthermore, while sorcerer abilities manifest haphazardly at best, it is fairly easy to determine if someone will be a dread necromancer. Almost any child that is the result of the union of a undead creature (often a lich or a vampire, but other forms of undead progenitors are not unheard of), or one of that child's decendants, is likely to have the powers of a dread necromancer. Theoretically, it is also possible for the reverse to be true: that an undead with a small smattering of human blood could potentially manifest dread necromancer powers. The only other known case of dread necromancers being created are at the direct intervention of a powerful fiend who imbues one of his or her favorite worshipers with these powers, Orcus being the most frequent example of this.

Unlike sorcerers, some dread necromancers, through sheer force of will, do mange to learn spells from books and tomes. However, this is generally only taken up by dread necromancers who had a proclivity towards magic beyond their undead gifted abilities.

An Onyx In A Haystack:
If sorcerers are rare, then dread necromancers are even rarer. Furthermore, they're sought out by forces of all allegiances and creeds. Those who support good deities frequently view dread necromancer's as abominations who need to be purged from the earth, and those who serve evil causes would like nothing more than to find out how to replicate a dread necromancer's powers at will. The fact that they are being hunted by multiple groups of individuals generally means that beings who don't have the stomach to kill their enemies are soon killed by them. As such, dread necromancers as a whole are overwhelmingly more evil than their sorcerer counterparts. The few good or nuetral dread necromancers generally keep a very, very low profile.

Dread Necromancers who are malicious often adventure for personal gain, no matter the price others have to pay for it. Good and Neutral Dread necromancers might adventure to advance the causes of law or chaos in the universe. Furthermore, many search desperately for a cure to their condition, and seek to purge the taint of undeath from their soul.

Creating A Dread Necromancer:
Dread Necromancers usually have a hefty does of tragedy in their backstories, and that's often what sets them down their dark paths to begin with. How did your dread necromancer discover or obtain their powers? What was their reaction to those powers, and what was the reaction other people had to these powers? Was your character merely treated with a healthy dose of suspicion? Where they almost killed by those who called them friends, or even family? Where they accepted by a cult of demon worshipers who thought of him as a profit of their demon patron?

Furthermore, now that you have these powers, what do you plan to do with or about them? Have you dedicated your life to removing any sort of taint of undeath from your body? Have you decided to use your powers to benefit others in spite of the inherit evil involved in reanimating corpses with necrotic energy? Are you striving to get rid of your powers?



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Dread Call Uses
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
-
Spellcasting, Taint of the Tomb
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
-
Necrotic Path
2
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
-
Rebuke Undead (1/per long rest)
2
4
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
-
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
1
Dread Call
3
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
1
Necrotic Path Feature
3
7
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
1
-
3
8
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
2
Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
+4
2
Scabrous Touch (1/long rest)
3
10
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
2
Dread Call Improvement
3
11
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
3
Necrotic Path Feature
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
3
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


13th
+5
3
Rebuke Undead (2/per long rest)
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


14th
+5
4
Greater Dread Call Improvement
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


15th
+5
4
Scabrous Touch (2/long rest)
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


16th
+5
4
Ability Score Improvement,
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


17th
+6
5
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1


18th
+6
5
Lich Body
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1


19th
+6
5
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1


20th
+6
6
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1



CLASS FEATURES
As a dread necromancer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points:
Hit Dice:1d8 per dread necromancer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8+ your constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Level:1d8(or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dread necromancer level after 1st.

Proficiencies:
Armor: Light
Weapons: All simple weapons, and 1 martial weapon of your choice
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Religion, and Stealth.

Equipment:
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.

The martial weapon you choose proficiency in
(a) A component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) A light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) a simple weapon of your choice
(a) an explorer's Pack, (b) a scholar's pack, or (c) a dungeoneer's pack



Spellcasting:
An event in your past, or in the life of a parent or ancestor, left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with arcane magic. This font of magic, whatever its origin, fuels your spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spell casting. The dread necromancer spell list is provided below.

Cantrips:

At 1st level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the dread necromancer spell list. You learn additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Sorcerer table.

Spell Slots:
The dread necromancer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these sorcerer spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell inflict wounds and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast inflict wounds using either slot.

Spells Known of First Level and Higher:

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. The Spells Known column of the dread necromancer table shows when you learn more dread necromancer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the dread necromancer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:

Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your dread necromancer spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spellcasting Focus:
You can use an arcane focus (found in chapter 5) as a spell casting focus for your dread necromancer spells.



Taint Of The Tomb:
The dark magic coursing through your body causes significant changes to your organic structure. You take radiant damage equal to the amount of damage you would normally be healed whenever you are the target of a healing spell. You may make a Charisma save to half the damage the spell deals to you. However, if you are the target of a spell that deals necrotic damage, you take no damage and instead heal an amount equal to the damage that would have normally been dealt. You may target yourself with spells that deal necrotic damage, such as inflict wounds) to heal yourself.

Furthermore, undead under your control can heal from necrotic damage from your spells, but not the spells of enemies.

Necrotic Path:
When you take your first second level in the Dread Necromancer class, you must choose your Necrotic Path. More details about the available necrotic paths are detailed below.

Rebuke Undead:
At level 3, as an action, you shout vile utterances of the primal language that all undead know. Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Charisma saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is rebuked for 1 minute. While a creature is rebuked, it stops and cowers in place, not taking any actions. Attack roles against rebuked creatures have advantage. A creature stops being rebuked once it takes damage.

Additionally, if the challenge rating of the undead rebuked is low enough and it fails it's saving throw, it falls under your control and you can command it as a bonus action. It remains under your control for one hour. It's actions towards you afterwards depend on the creature's intelligence (or lack their off) and how it was treated while under your command. If you merely asked it to fight along side you, it will likely be indifferent to you. If you used it as bait or cannon fodder, it may turn on you once it is free of your control.

Command Undead
Dread necromancer Level command Undead of CR
5th : 1/2 or lower
8th : 1 or lower
11th : 2 or lower
14th : 3 or lower
17th : 4 or lower

You can only use rebuke undead once per long rest up until level 13. At level 13, you can use it up to twice per long rest.

Dread Call:
Starting at fifth level, you gain an amount of dread call uses shown in the chart above. You can expend one of these uses to cast the spell animate dead as if you were casting it as a third level spell. Dread Call uses regenerate after every long rest.

Scabrous Touch:
Starting at level 9, you gain the ability to cast the spell contagion once per day without using a spell slot. At level 15, you can use this ability twice per day.

Dread Call Improvement:
Starting at Level 10, you can gain one of the following two improvements to your Dread call uses.

Greater Necromancy: By expending two dread call uses you can cast Create Undead on a corpse as if casting the spell at 6th level. At level 14, you cast the spell as a 8th level spell, and can spend an additional dread call use to cast it at a level 9 spell.

Metamagic: You select one metamagic option form the sorcerer's list of metamagic from the player's handbook (P. 102). You can use dread call uses to fuel metamagic in the same way a sorcerer can. At level 14, you can select a second metamagic option.

Lich Body:
Once you take your 18th level of dread necromancer, your body further alters to reflect the nature of the necromantic magic you practice. You gain resistance to one of the following damage types of your choice: slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing. This resistance can be overcome by any magic weapon.

[Michael7123]

Necrotic Paths:


Dread Knight

http://pre11.deviantart.net/69ee/th/pre/f/2012/165/c/6/blackguard_of_baphomet_by_vanagandr-d53jemf.jpg
"Let the cowards hide behind there robes of silk and flashy spells. Real killers lead their armies."

Dark Vanguard:
You gain proficiency in medium armor, and you can choose a combat style available to any of the core PHB classes at first level. Furthermore, you mere presence can unsettle the fiercest of enemies. An amount of times per long rest equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1), but no more times than your dread necromancer level, you may use a bonus action to force a target within 5 feet of you to make a will saving throw against your spell save DC or be frightened of you while they are within 15 feet of you. Once an enemy makes a saving throw against this ability, they can't be affected by it for another 24 hours.

Extra attack:
Starting at 6th level, when you use your action to attack, you may make two attacks.

Necrotic Burst:
Starting at level 11, you can use your action to unleash a surge of necrotic energy from your body, damaging targets around you. Any creature within 5 feet of you takes 1d4 necrotic damage per dread necromancer level you have. You can use this ability 1/per long rest. At level 17, you can use it two times per long rest. At level 20, you can use it 3 times per long rest.

Wightstrike:
Starting at level 17, when you attack any creature with the martial weapon you choose to have proficiency in, you deal an additional 1d8 necrotic damage.

Undying Terror:
At level 20, your fear aura's power is greatly increased. From now on, whenever an enemy enters within 15 feet of you, they must make a will save every round they are within your aura. You do not need to spend any actions to activate this ability. If they fail the saving throw once, they become frightened. If they fail the saving throw 3 times, they must flee from you while dropping their weapons. They must continue to flee at their fastest speed until they are out of your line of sight, and out of your aura. Finally, enemies don't become immune to your aura for 24 hours for making a saving throw against it's effects.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Infernalist

http://i.imgur.com/VShDvxX.jpg?1
"We're mixing the most powerful forces in the universe: Damned souls and undeath. What could possibly go wrong?"

Dark Lore:
Due to your extensive dealing with black magic of all varieties, you gain expertise on any religion or arcana checks dealing with fiends or necromancy. Furthermore, your knowledge of fiends has given you insight's on how to emulate their power. You gain fire resistance.

Vile Death:
Beginning at 6th level, all the undead you create are now infused with power from the lower planes, often in the form of a willing (or unwilling) fiend who's essence is merged with any undead created by the caster. Undead you create or animate now gain a +2 bonus to their strength or dexterity scores (decided by you upon their creation), and additional hitpoint per hit dice. You also gain the ability to summon an imp or quasit as your familiar. You learn the spell “find familiar” if you don’t already know it.

Expert Summoner:
Starting at level 11, you may cast planar binding using 2 of your dread call uses. You still have to provide the material component for the spell. It is cast as a level 5 spell. At level 20, you can cast it as a level 6 spell. All undead created by the spells animate dead or create undead now have resistance to fire and deal an additional 1d4 fire damage with each of their natural attacks. This damage increases to 1d6 fire damage once you reach level 17.

Infernal Tongue:
Starting at level 17, you become an expert at dealing with infernal entities. You gain double your proficiency bonus on persuasion, deception, and intimidation checks against fiends. Furthermore, any costs associated with spells such as planar binding or planar ally are halved when you are dealing with fiends. You also learn to speak infernal and abyssal. Furthermore, all undead you raise now have advantage on saving throws against being turned.

Destruction Retribution:
The fiendish spirits bound to the undead you animate now become more volatile. When undead you create die, they explode in a blast of fire and necrotic energy as the souls of the damned are pulled back into the lower planes. Each undead you create deals 1d4 fire damage and 1d4 necrotic damage in a 10 ft radius upon their death, gaining an additional damage dice of each type for every 2 additional hitpoints it possesses. For example, an undead that has 3 hit dice would deal 2d4 necrotic damage and 2d4 necrotic damage in a 10ft radius upon their death.

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Scholar

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/56583/1085343-untitled.jpg
"Knowledge is power. Specifically, the power to kill you."

Advanced Learning
Choose a class, wizard or cleric. You may not change this choice later. You can add 1st level spell of your choice from the class you have selected to the spells you have known. Every time you gain a new necrotic path feature, you can add one spell of your choice to your list of spells known from the spell list of the class you choose. The level the spell you learn must be a of a level that you're able to cast spells in. For example, a sixth level dread necromancer could not learn the spell Meteor Swarm, but he could learn the spell Fly.

Death Rituals:
At level 6, you gain the effects of the ritual caster feat based on the class you choose at level 1. In addition, when you drop an enemy to zero hit points with a spell, you gain hit points equal to two times the level the spell was cast at. If the spell was from the necromancy school, you gain three times the level of the spell.

Deadly Knowledge:
At level 11, you overcome resistance to necrotic damage. Whenever you roll a 1 or two on a damage dice when dealing necrotic damage, you can re-roll that dice one time. You must abide by the result of the second roll.

Undying Mastery:
At level 17, you overcome immunity to necrotic damage.

Eternal Knowledge:
Sometime upon reaching level 20, you gain the knowledge of one of two rituals. You can preform these rituals on yourself to gain immense benefits.

Lichdom: Become a full fledged undead through a profane ritual. This ritual must involve some extraordinarily evil act (such as the sacrifice of a good aligned child or celestial, for example). After the ritual's completion, you gain the following benefits.

Damage Resistances cold, lightning,
Damage Immunities: poison; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons
Condition Immunities: charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned
You gain a phylactery. If your body is destroyed, you reform, regaining all of your hit points and becoming active again. The new body appears within 5 feet of the phylactery.
You are considered an undead for any conditions or effects that effect undead.

Necortic Purge: Remove the taint of undeath from your soul. After you preform the ritual, which takes a week to preform, you gain the following benefits:


You loose both the benefits and drawbacks of the tomb tainted soul class feature
Your body is infused with life giving energy. You restore one hit point every turn, up to your hit point maximum.
All instances of create undead and animate dead are removed from your spell list, and are replaced with a spell of the same level of your choice.
You loose your dread call uses and gain 14 sorcerer points You gain one metamagic ability. You can use these sorcerer points for anytbhing a sorcerer can use sorcerer points for.
Your body is still marked by it's frequent counters with undeath. You gain immunity to necrotic damage.

[Michael7123]

Dread Necromancer Spell List

Cantrips:

Poison Spray
Chill Touch *
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Vicious Mockery


Level 1:

False Life
Inflict Wounds
Ray of Sickness
Find Familiar
Witch Bolt
Dissonant Whispers
Detect Poison and Disease
Detect Evil and Good
Hex
Bane
Detect Magic
Animate Crawling Claw**
Conjure Undead Creature***


Level 2:

Blindness/Deafness
Ray of Enfeeblement
Darkness
Gentle Repose
Protection From Poison


Level 3:

Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Vampiric Touch
Speak with Dead
Feign Death
Gaseous Form
Fear



Level 4:

Blight
Phantasmal Killer
Evard's Black Tentacles
Death Ward
Banishment


Level 5:

Antilife Shell
Dispel Evil and Good
Planar Binding
Circle of Power
Contagion
Cone of Cold
Hallow


Level 6:

Harm
Circle of Death
Create Undead
Eyebite
Magic Jar
Planar Ally


Level 7:

Finger of Death
Conjure Fiend***
Eternalness



Level 8:

Anti magic Field
Glibness
Feeblemind
Clone


Level 9:

Astral Projection
Weird
Power Word Kill
Gate


----------------------------------
* You cannot use this cantrip to heal yourself with the tomb tainted soul feature.
**Animate crawling claw works exactly like animate dead, except it is a level 1 spell, and can be used to create two crawling claws (monster manual P.44), and can be cast on any creature with hand like appendages.
*** Conjure undead creature works as follows:

Casting Time: 1 minute Range: 90 feet Components: V, S Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You summon undead creatures that appear in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range. You choose one the following options for what appears:

• One undead of challenge rating 1 or lower

• Two undead of challenge rating 1/2 or lower

•Four undead of challenge rating 1/4 or lower

•Eight undead of challenge rating 1/8 or lower

An undead summoned by this spell disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends. The summoned creatures are friendly to you and your companions. Roll initiative for the summoned creatures as a group, which has its own turns. They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don’t issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures, but otherwise take no actions. The DM has the creatures' statistics.

If your concentration is broken, the undead you summoned don't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the elemental, it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and will likely attack you. An uncontrolled undead can’t be dismissed by you, and it disappears 1 hour after you summoned it

At Higher Levels. For every level beyond 1st that you cast this spell, you can summon more powerful undead creatures. You can conjure 1 undead creature of a CR equal or less than the level you cast the spell at, so a level 2 spell could be used to conjure an undead with a challenge rating of 2. Furthermore, you can conjure up to two creatures with half the CR of the spell level you used, four creatures of a quarter of the spell you cast, and eight creatures of one eighth of the level of the spell you cast.

****Identical to conjure celestial in every way, except you conjure a fiend instead of a celestial.

[Michael7123]

Latest Patch Notes:

Added a new spell to the spell list that lets you animate crawling claws
Reduced the max amount of dread call uses from 7 to 6. You now gain dread call at level 5.
Gain necrotic path features at later levels.
Removed the restriction that only let you benefit from tomb tainted soul when you don['t multi class into dread necromancer. Also cleared up some of the wording with tomb tainted soul.
Reduced length of controlling undead from rebuke undead down to 1 hour.
Added Scabrous Touch ability at level 9, boosts at level 15.
Added the spell "Conjure undead creature" to the spell list.


Scholar latest patch notes.

Removed the improvements to undead you raise from the level 10 improvement.
Removed the ability to pierce immunity to necrotic damage from level 10 to level 15.
Changed the first ability. You gain one first level spell from the class that you choose, and only gain new spells when you get another ability from the class. Changed the ability to Advanced Learning.
Renamed the level 15 ability to Undying Mastery


Infernalist latest patch notes

Altered the inferalist class to be somewhat more like the corpsecrafter feat tree from 3.5
Completely changed the capstone ability. Your undead now explode when they die, dealing fire and necrotic damage.
Undead now only start dealing fire damage at level 11, with the improvement coming at level 17.
Lowered the cost to cast planar binding down to 2 dread call uses
When you gain the vile death class feature, you can choose to give your undeaad a +2 bonus to either strength or dexterity, and they get + hit point per hit dice.
Undead you create get advantage on saving throws against being turned starting t level 17



Dread Knight Latest Patch notes:

Removed Reapers Kiss
Added Fear Aura ability to Dark Vanguard
Replaced capstone with improvement to fear aura
Added Necrotic Bursts
Weightstrike is no longer upgraded to 2d8 damage, and no longer reanimates dead. Removed the 1/per round restriction on the necrotic damage.




Older versions:



Dread Knight

http://pre11.deviantart.net/69ee/th/pre/f/2012/165/c/6/blackguard_of_baphomet_by_vanagandr-d53jemf.jpg
"Let the cowards hide behind there robes of silk and flashy spells. Real killers lead their armies."

Dark Vanguard:
You gain proficiency in medium armor, and you can choose a combat style available to any of the core PHB classes at first level.

Extra attack:
Starting at 6th level, when you use your action to attack, you may make two attacks.

Reaper's Kiss:
Starting at level 11, you can expend a use of rebuke undead to deal massive amounts of damage in one strike. When you hit an enemy with an attack made by a physical weapon, you can deal additional damage equal to 5+ twice your dread necromancer level in necrotic damage. In addition, you gain proficiency with heavy armor.

Wightstrike:
Starting at level 17, when you attack any creature with the martial weapon you choose to have proficiency in, you deal an additional 1d8 necrotic damage once per round. At level 20, this amount increases to 2d8 necrotic damage once per round. Any humanoid slain by your attacks attacks with your marital weapon of choice rises 1 hour later as a zombie with half of it's normal maximum hit point total under your control, unless the humanoid is restored to life or its body is destroyed.

Necrotic Transformation.
At level 20, once per long rest, you can turn into a undead creature of great power. While transformed, you gain the following benifits:


Casting any spell that normally takes an action only takes a bonus action.
You gain an aura of menace, identical to the paladin of vengeance from the player's handbook.

These abilities last for 10 minutes. You can activate Necrotic Transformation once per day.




Infernalist

http://i.imgur.com/VShDvxX.jpg?1
"We're mixing the most powerful forces in the universe: Damned souls and undeath. What could possibly go wrong?"

Dark Lore:
Due to your extensive dealing with black magic of all varieties, you gain expertise on any religion or arcana checks dealing with fiends or necromancy. Furthermore, your knowledge of fiends has given you insight's on how to emulate their power. You gain fire resistance.

Vile Death:
Beginning at 6th level, all the undead you create are now infused with power from the lower planes, often in the form of a willing (or unwilling) fiend who's essence is merged with any undead created by the caster. All undead created by the spells animate dead or create undead now have resistance to fire and deal an additional 1d4 fire damage with each of their natural attacks. This damage increases to 1d6 fire damage once you reach level 15. You also gain the ability to summon an imp or quasit as your familiar. You learn the spell “find familiar” if you don’t already know it.

Expert Summoner:
Starting at level 11, you may cast planar binding using 3 of your dread call uses. You still have to provide the material component for the spell. It is cast as a level 5 spell. At level 20, you can cast it as a level 6 spell.

Infernal Tongue:
Starting at level 17, you become an expert at dealing with infernal entities. You gain double your proficiency bonus on persuasion, deception, and intimidation checks against fiends. Furthermore, any costs associated with spells such as planar binding or planar ally are halved when you are dealing with fiends. You also learn to speak infernal and abyssal.

Fiendish Transformation
Starting at level 20, once per long rest, you can transform into a Glabrezu, a horned devil, or an ultraloth for 1 minute. You gain all the stats and abilities of that creature while you are transformed, but you keep your health score. You may still cast spells while transformed.




Dread Necromancer

Latest Patch Notes:

Added Fear to the class spell list. It should have been on there to start with.
Renamed 'animation points" into "dread call uses"
Reduced the amount of dread call uses from 10 to 7 (1/3rd of class level instead of 1/2)
Using dread call for metamagic now only takes up half of a dread call point.
If you take the dread call option to gain the ability to cast create undead, you can increase the level you cast the spell at by spending more dread call uses.


http://pre06.deviantart.net/f707/th/pre/i/2014/297/4/7/necromancer_by_jasontn-d83zo8b.jpg
"I have not only witnesssed horrors beyond your darkest nightmares, I have COMMANDED those horrors and bent them to my will! And you have the arrogance to think you can defeat me?"



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Dread Call Uses
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
-
Spellcasting, Taint of the Tomb, Necrotic Path
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
1
Dread Call
2
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
1
Rebuke Undead (1/per long rest)
2
4
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
1
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
2
Necrotic Path Feature
3
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
2

3
7
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
2

3
8
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
3
Dread Call Improvement, Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
+4
3
-
3
10
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
3
Necrotic Path Feature
3
11
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
4

4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
4
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


13th
+5
4
Rebuke Undead (2/per long rest)
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


14th
+5
5
Greater Dread Call Improvement
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


15th
+5
5
Necrotic Path Feature
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


16th
+5
5
Ability Score Improvement,
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


17th
+6
6
-
4
15
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1


18th
+6
6
Lich Body
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1


19th
+6
6
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1


20th
+6
7
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1




CLASS FEATURES
As a dread necromancer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points:
Hit Dice:1d8 per dread necromancer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8+ your constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Level:1d8(or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dread necromancer level after 1st.

Proficiencies:
Armor: Light
Weapons: All simple weapons, and 1 martial weapon of your choice
Tools: None
Saving Thows: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Religion, and Stealth.

Equipment:
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.

The martial weapon you choose proficiency in
(a) A component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) A light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) a simple weapon of your choice
(a) an explorer's Pack, (b) a scholar's pack, or (c) a dungeoneer's pack



Spellcasting:
An event in your past, or in the life of a parent or ancestor, left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with arcane magic. This font of magic, whatever its origin, fuels your spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spell casting. The dread necromancer spell list is provided below.

Cantrips:

At 1st level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the dread necromancer spell list. You learn additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Sorcerer table.

Spell Slots:
The dread necromancer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these sorcerer spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell inflict wounds and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast inflict wounds using either slot.

Spells Known of First Level and Higher:

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. The Spells Known column of the dread necromancer table shows when you learn more dread necromancer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the dread necromancer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:

Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your dread necromancer spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spellcasting Focus:
You can use an arcane focus (found in chapter 5) as a spell casting focus for your dread necromancer spells.



Taint Of The Tomb:
The dark magic coursing through your body causes significant changes to your organic structure. If you took the first level of dread necromancer at the same time you took your first character level, you take radiant damage whenever you are the target of a healing spell. You may make a Charisma save to half the damage the spell deals to you. However, if you are the target of a spell that deals necrotic damage, you take no damage and instead heal an amount equal to the damage that would have normally been dealt. You may target yourself with spells that deal necrotic damage, such as inflict wounds) to heal yourself.

Furthermore, undead under your control can heal from necrotic damage from your spells, but not the spells of enemies.

Necrotic Path:
When you take your first level in the Dread Necromancer class, you must choose your Necrotic Path. More details about the available necrotic paths are detailed below.

Dread Call:
Starting at second level, you gain an amount of dread call uses equal to half your dread necromancer class level rounded down. You can expend one of these uses to cast the spell animate dead as if you were casting it as a third level spell. Dread Call uses regenerate after every long rest.

Rebuke Undead:
At level 3, as an action, you shout vile utterances of the primal language that all undead know. Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Charisma saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is rebuked for 1 minute. While a creature is rebuked, it stops and cowers in place, not taking any actions. Attack roles against rebuked creatures have advantage. A creature stops being rebuked once it takes damage.

Additionally, if the challenge rating of the undead rebuked is low enough and it fails it's saving throw, it falls under your control and you can command it as a bonus action. It remains under your control for 24 hours. It's actions towards you afterwards depend on the creature's intelligence (or lack their off) and how it was treated while under your command. If you merely asked it to fight along side you, it will likely be indifferent to you. If you used it as bait or cannon fodder, it may turn on you once it is free of your control.

Command Undead
Dread necromancer Level command Undead of CR
5th : 1/2 or lower
8th : 1 or lower
11th : 2 or lower
14th : 3 or lower
17th : 4 or lower

You can only use rebuke undead once per long rest up until level 13. At level 13, you can use it up to twice per long rest.


Dread Call Improvement:
Starting at Level 8, you can gain one of the following two improvements to your Dread call uses.

Greater Necromancy: By expending three dread call uses you can cast Create Undead on a corpse as if casting the spell at 6th level. For every additional dread call usage you expend, you cast the spell at a higher level. At level 14, you only need to expend two dread call uses to use this feature.

Metamagic: You select one metamagic option form the sorcerer's list of metamagic from the player's handbook (P. 102). You can use dread call uses to fuel metamagic in the same way a sorcerer can. At level 14, you can select a second metamagic option.

Lich Body:
Once you take your 18th level of dread necromancer, your body further alters to reflect the nature of the necromantic magic you practice. You gain resistance to one of the following damage types of your choice: slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing. This resistance can be overcome by any magic weapon.







Scholar

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/56583/1085343-untitled.jpg
"Knowledge is power. Specifically, the power to kill you."

Undying Study:
Choose a class, wizard or cleric. You may not change this choice later. You can add 1st level spell of your choice from the class you have selected to the spells you have known. Every time you gain a new spell level, you gain a new spell from the spell list of the class you chose at level 1.

Death Rituals:
At level 5, you gain the effects of the ritual caster feat based on the class you choose at level 1. In addition, when you drop an enemy to zero hit points with a spell, you gain hit points equal to two times the level the spell was cast at. If the spell was from the necromancy school, you gain three times the level of the spell.

Deadly Knowledge:
At level 10, you overcome all resistance and immunity to necrotic damage. Whenever you roll a 1 or two on a damage dice when dealing necrotic damage, you can re-roll that dice one time. You must abide by the result of the second roll.

Additionally, whenever you create an undead using a necromancy spell, it has additional benefits:
* The creature’s hit point maximum is increased by an amount equal to your dread necromancer level.
* The creature adds your proficiency bonus to its weapon damage rolls.
* The creature is able to wield the marital weapon you are proficient in.

Unyielding Mastery:
At level 15, undead you create are always under your command until they or you die.

Eternal Knowledge:
Sometime upon reaching level 20, you gain the knowledge of one of two rituals. You can preform these rituals on yourself to gain immense benefits.

Lichdom: Become a full fledged undead through a profane ritual. This ritual must involve some extraordinarily evil act (such as the sacrifice of a good aligned child or celestial, for example). After the ritual's completion, you gain the following benefits.

Damage Resistances cold, lightning,
Damage Immunities: poison; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons
Condition Immunities: charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned
You gain a phylactery. If your body is destroyed, you reform, regaining all of your hit points and becoming active again. The new body appears within 5 feet of the phylactery.
You are considered an undead for any conditions or effects that effect undead.

Necortic Purge: Remove the taint of undeath from your soul. After you preform the ritual, which takes a week to preform, you gain the following benefits:


You loose both the benefits and drawbacks of the tomb tainted soul class feature
Your body is infused with life giving energy. You restore one hit point every turn, up to your hit point maximum.
All instances of create undead and animate dead are removed from your spell list, and are replaced with a spell of the same level of your choice.
You loose your dread call uses and gain 14 sorcerer points You gain one metamagic ability. You can use these sorcerer points for anytbhing a sorcerer can use sorcerer points for.
Your body is still marked by it's frequent counters with undeath. You gain immunity to necrotic damage.




Latest Patch Notes:

Removed charnel touch entirely. Farewell, infinate healing
Moved lich body from level 4 to level 18, and removed greater lich body entirely.
Added the ability to heal undead with necrotic energy from spells you cast on them.




Dread Necromancer

http://pre06.deviantart.net/f707/th/pre/i/2014/297/4/7/necromancer_by_jasontn-d83zo8b.jpg
"I have not only witnesssed horrors beyond your darkest nightmares, I have COMMANDED those horrors and bent them to my will! And you have the arrogance to think you can defeat me?"



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Animation Points.
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
-
Spellcasting, Taint of the Tomb, Necrotic Path
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
1
Animation Points
2
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
1
Rebuke Undead (1/per long rest)
2
4
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
2
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
2
Necrotic Path Feature
3
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
3

3
7
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
3

3
8
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
4
Animation Points Improvement, Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
+4
4
-
3
10
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
5
Necrotic Path Feature
3
11
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
5

4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
6
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


13th
+5
6
Rebuke Undead (2/per long rest)
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


14th
+5
7
Greater Animation Point Improvement
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


15th
+5
7
Necrotic Path Feature
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


16th
+5
8
Ability Score Improvement,
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


17th
+6
8
-
4
15
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1


18th
+6
9
Lich Body
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1


19th
+6
9
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1


20th
+6
10
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1




CLASS FEATURES
As a dread necromancer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points:
Hit Dice:1d8 per dread necromancer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8+ your constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Level:1d8(or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dread necromancer level after 1st.

Proficiencies:
Armor: Light
Weapons: All simple weapons, and 1 martial weapon of your choice
Tools: None
Saving Thows: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Religion, and Stealth.

Equipment:

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.

The martial weapon you choose proficiency in
(a) A component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) A light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) a simple weapon of your choice
(a) an explorer's Pack, (b) a scholar's pack, or (c) a dungeoneer's pack



Spellcasting:
An event in your past, or in the life of a parent or ancestor, left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with arcane magic. This font of magic, whatever its origin, fuels your spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spell casting. The dread necromancer spell list is provided below.

Cantrips:

At 1st level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the dread necromancer spell list. You learn additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Sorcerer table.

Spell Slots:
The dread necromancer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these sorcerer spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell inflict wounds and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast inflict wounds using either slot.

Spells Known of First Level and Higher:

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. The Spells Known column of the dread necromancer table shows when you learn more dread necromancer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the dread necromancer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:

Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your dread necromancer spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spellcasting Focus:
You can use an arcane focus (found in chapter 5) as a spell casting focus for your dread necromancer spells.



Taint Of The Tomb:
The dark magic coursing through your body causes significant changes to your organic structure. If you took the first level of dread necromancer at the same time you took your first character level, you take radiant damage whenever you are the target of a healing spell. You may make a Charisma save to half the damage the spell deals to you. However, if you are the target of a spell that deals necrotic damage, you take no damage and instead heal an amount equal to the damage that would have normally been dealt. You may target yourself with spells that deal necrotic damage, such as inflict wounds) to heal yourself.

Furthermore, undead under your control can heal from necrotic damage from your spells, but not the spells of enemies.

Necrotic Path:
When you take your first level in the Dread Necromancer class, you must choose your Necrotic Path. More details about the available necrotic paths are detailed below.

Animation Points:
Starting at second level, you gain an amount of animation points equal to half your dread necromancer class level rounded down. You can expend one of these points to cast the spell animate dead as if you were casting it as a third level spell. Animation points regenerate after every long rest.

Rebuke Undead:
At level 3, as an action, you shout vile utterances of the primal language that all undead know. Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Charisma saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is rebuked for 1 minute. While a creature is rebuked, it stops and cowers in place, not taking any actions. Attack roles against rebuked creatures have advantage. A creature stops being rebuked once it takes damage.

Additionally, if the challenge rating of the undead rebuked is low enough and it fails it's saving throw, it falls under your control and you can command it as a bonus action. It remains under your control for 24 hours. It's actions towards you afterwards depend on the creature's intelligence (or lack their off) and how it was treated while under your command. If you merely asked it to fight along side you, it will likely be indifferent to you. If you used it as bait or cannon fodder, it may turn on you once it is free of your control.

Command Undead
Dread necromancer Level command Undead of CR
5th : 1/2 or lower
8th : 1 or lower
11th : 2 or lower
14th : 3 or lower
17th : 4 or lower

You can only use rebuke undead once per long rest up until level 13. At level 13, you can use it up to twice per long rest.


Animation Points Improvement:
Starting at Level 8, you can gain one of the following two improvements to your Animation Points.

Greater Necromancy: By expending three animation points, you can cast Create Undead on a corpse as if casting the spell at 6th level. At level 14, you only need to expend two animation points to use this feature.

Metamagic: You select one metamagic option form the sorcerer's list of metamagic from the player's handbook (P. 102). You can use animation points to fuel metamagic in the same way a sorcerer can. At level 14, you can select a second metamagic option.

Lich Body:
Once you take your 18th level of dread necromancer, your body further alters to reflect the nature of the necromantic magic you practice. You gain resistance to one of the following damage types of your choice: slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing. This resistance can be overcome by any magic weapon.

A note on balance:
Yes, I am aware that this class needs to be balanced more. That's where I need your help. This is my first time designing a class all on it's own (as opposed to my warlock patron subclasses). I'm mainly building this class so I can continue playing as my current player once my party switches from 3.5 to 5.




Other Notes:

I had a very simple reason for designing this class. My favorite IRL campaign is going to be switching over from 3.5 to 5th edition sometime in the very near future. I have a dread necromancer in that campaign. Now, I could have tried to just make some small sorcerer origin homebrew, and just go from there, but what fun would that be?

I tried to capture as many of the possibilities that the original 3.5 dread necromancer offered. I'm worried I might have made this class too powerful, but I'm hoping it's limited spell list will balance that out. I don't have it posted yet, but it shouldn't surprise you to find out that it consists of little else besides necromancy spells.


As of now, here are the biggest questions I would like you all to answer about this class (of course, if you have any other ideas, by all means post them).


Is rebuke undead balanced?
Does the spell list need any changes?
Should I improve the infernalist class, or is it good as is?
I know dread knight needs improvements. Anyone have suggestions for alternate features?
Is scholar balanced now?


Special Thanks:
Thank you Startouched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?98263-Startouched) and Flashy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?92284-Flashy) for providing me with so much help throughout the design process.

[Startouched]

Too early to make calls on Rebuke Undead's power without seeing it in context of class. Animation points are too plentiful, that's basically 10 free third level spells, or in spell points 50 spell points. (Most classes get 133 at level 20, so 50 is a vast upgrade)

Charnel Touch and Tomb-tainted soul are functionally broken, unlimited healing. I would say that Charnel Touch can't heal at all and you only heal from Tomb-tainted soul if the source of the damage was from a first level spell or higher. That's still potentially breakable but far less so. Charnel touch also seems needlessly complicated. Why not just give them the cantrip Chill Touch?

[Michael7123]

Too early to make calls on Rebuke Undead's power without seeing it in context of class. Animation points are too plentiful, that's basically 10 free third level spells, or in spell points 50 spell points. (Most classes get 133 at level 20, so 50 is a vast upgrade)

Charnel Touch and Tomb-tainted soul are functionally broken, unlimited healing. I would say that Charnel Touch can't heal at all and you only heal from Tomb-tainted soul if the source of the damage was from a first level spell or higher. That's still potentially breakable but far less so. Charnel touch also seems needlessly complicated. Why not just give them the cantrip Chill Touch?

I probably will wind up lowering the amount of animation points (that REALLY needs a better name) at some point.

As for the unlimited healing thing, that wasn't a bug. That was a feature. To anyone who played as a dread necromancer back in 3.5, you take the tomb tainted soul feat, and use charnel touch to heal yourself endlessly. You basically have to, because the party cleric can't use cure wounds on you. Sure, he could waste spell slots just to prepare inflict wounds for the healing of one player, but that's rather wasteful. Let the cleric take over the rest of the party's healing, you take care of yourself. Makes everything smother that way.

Keep in mind, it requires an action, and is a really week heal until you get to high levels. It's solely meant for out of combat scenarios. If you're using this for combat, you're as good as dead.

However, in the future, I might just limit charnel touch to being one heal per long rest for every dread necromancer level you have. I'll hold off on that though.

Also, charnel touch is the only mechanism you have to heal your undead minions out of combat. Chill touch doesn't do that.

[Startouched]

If it's a feature, it's a fundamentally broken one that needs revising. There is no instance of at-will healing in the base game until very high levels and then it's restricted to a single class that's pretty lacking in options otherwise (The Champion). The only non-homebrew with anything of the sort is the Immortal Mystic, which is widely agreed to be overpowered.

If you want to heal undead, just give them a variant of Cure Wounds that they can cast to heal their undead. Free healing is far too valuable in fifth edition.

And your Cleric argument is pretty flawed because of the way prepared casting works in fifth edition. Preparing a necrotic damage spell doesn't seem like a bad idea in any circumstance. Lets you heal the Necromancer and hurt your enemies.

Assuming you have Chill Touch, you're healing 1d8hp a round. That's probably a full heal in three minutes or less, regardless of your level. You'll never enter combat at all damaged, for no resource expense at all. That seems more than a little overpowered to me, unless I'm missing something.

[Michael7123]

If it's a feature, it's a fundamentally broken one that needs revising. There is no instance of at-will healing in the base game until very high levels and then it's restricted to a single class that's pretty lacking in options otherwise (The Champion). The only non-homebrew with anything of the sort is the Immortal Mystic, which is widely agreed to be overpowered.

If you want to heal undead, just give them a variant of Cure Wounds that they can cast to heal their undead. Free healing is far too valuable in fifth edition.

And your Cleric argument is pretty flawed because of the way prepared casting works in fifth edition. Preparing a necrotic damage spell doesn't seem like a bad idea in any circumstance. Lets you heal the Necromancer and hurt your enemies.

Assuming you have Chill Touch, you're healing 1d8hp a round. That's probably a full heal in three minutes or less, regardless of your level. You'll never enter combat at all damaged, for no resource expense at all. That seems more than a little overpowered to me, unless I'm missing something.

Hmm... Good points. I'll admit I was mainly going for the aim of recreating the Dread necromancer feel of 3.5 and putting it into 5th edition, and the unlimited healing was a big part of that.

What I'll probably wind up doing is limiting the charnel touch to an amount of times per long rest equal to your DN level.

Also, I was wondering if chill touch would actually heal the dread necromancer the way it's set up now. It does have a condition in the spell that prevents healing. I was kinda hoping it wouldn't allow healing of the player, and any effect would just be negated.

[Startouched]

Hmm, fair point on Chill Touch possibly not counting. Depends on if you consider the healing prevention taking place after hit or immediately. Thematically I would think that if you absorb the attack totally damagewise you shouldn't really be suffering the ill effect but RAW probably means it wouldn't work. That said, there are still plenty of ways you could abuse taking necrotic damage healing you-all you need is to find an undead that does necrotic damage, capture it and you're golden.

[Michael7123]

Hmm, fair point on Chill Touch possibly not counting. Depends on if you consider the healing prevention taking place after hit or immediately. Thematically I would think that if you absorb the attack totally damagewise you shouldn't really be suffering the ill effect but RAW probably means it wouldn't work. That said, there are still plenty of ways you could abuse taking necrotic damage healing you-all you need is to find an undead that does necrotic damage, capture it and you're golden.

True. Hmmm. I might write something into the rules about not being able to heal from undead under your control, but undead that are trying to kill you are another matter. If you can accidentally fried by a cleric trying to help you, you should be able to benefit from the things trying to eat your face. '

Also, two of the archtypes are up. The first is a fairly simple tank based class. The second is for those special characters who decided that it would be a good idea to break the first two rules of magic at the same time: don't mess with the undead, and don't mess with fiends.

I could use some help developing the capstone for the knight class. Anyone having any ideas.

[Flashy]

Yeah, this has retained way too much of the 3.5 power structure. Consider a dread knight at 5th level.

The Dread Knight can:

1. Attack Twice
2. Use a fighting style
3. Wear medium armor
4. Cast Animate Dead twice for free
5. Resist one type of physical damage
6. Rebuke Undead 1/day
7. Start every fight at full health
8. Even if you remove the feature that enables 7 (and you should) heal themselves for 12d10 hp through 1st level slots.
9. Cast a number of interesting and useful 2nd and 3rd level spells.

A 5th level Valor Bard, the nearest equivalent, can:

1. Attack once
2. Wear medium armor
3. Add a bunch of valuable bonuses to skill checks
4. Inspire allies 3 or 4 times a long rest
5. Heal everyone an extra d6 on a short rest
6. Heal themselves for 4d8+16 hp through 1st level slots
7. Cast a number of interesting and useful 2nd and 3rd level spells.

[Michael7123]

Yeah, this has retained way too much of the 3.5 power structure. Consider a dread knight at 5th level.

The Dread Knight can:

1. Attack Twice
2. Use a fighting style
3. Wear medium armor
4. Cast Animate Dead twice for free
5. Resist one type of physical damage
6. Rebuke Undead 1/day
7. Start every fight at full health
8. Even if you remove the feature that enables 7 (and you should) heal themselves for 12d10 hp through 1st level slots.
9. Cast a number of interesting and useful 2nd and 3rd level spells.

A 5th level Valor Bard, the nearest equivalent, can:

1. Attack once
2. Wear medium armor
3. Add a bunch of valuable bonuses to skill checks
4. Inspire allies 3 or 4 times a long rest
5. Heal everyone an extra d6 on a short rest
6. Heal themselves for 4d8 hp through 1st level slots
7. Cast a number of interesting and useful 2nd and 3rd level spells.

Well that was a very much needed look at perspective. Thank you.

I think I'm going to just hold off on granting lich body until level 18, and remove the more powerful version entirely. As for the rest of it. I might even remove charnel touch all together and just grant any DN the ability to heal undead with any of their spells.

I'll think on this a bit more. Thank you.

EDIT: Although, I would like to say that the dread necromacer, while having cool spells, has fewer spells than pretty much any other full caster. Take your example of the bard for example. The DN has 5 level 2 spells on it's list, and 6 level 3 spells. The Bard has more spells known to it at each spell level, and has spells that have a much wider area of use.

[Michael7123]

Alright, some changes have been made. Infinite healing is gone :smallfrown: and lich body has been moved up to level 18.

[Michael7123]

Alright, everything is done. By done, I mean, I have my horribly unbalanced class that has all of it's features listed.

This is were you guys come in. What can I do to make this better?

[Michael7123]

I've been strongly considering reducing the amount of animation points from half your class level to one third your class level. What are your thoughts on this change?

[Startouched]

Animation points could definitely do with a tweak (and maybe a name change too!), but that seems a bit clunky. Why not just say that you have uses of Dread Call equal to your proficiency bonus? I'd also consider making it available a bit later just because I can't think of any other features that let you cast a spell before you're of a level where you could cast it with your spell slots. (Warlock Invocations are the biggest example of this)

[Michael7123]

Animation points could definitely do with a tweak (and maybe a name change too!), but that seems a bit clunky. Why not just say that you have uses of Dread Call equal to your proficiency bonus? I'd also consider making it available a bit later just because I can't think of any other features that let you cast a spell before you're of a level where you could cast it with your spell slots. (Warlock Invocations are the biggest example of this)

I'm granting the ability to raise dead early because it's the key ability of the class. The part of the class i like the least was that you only unlocked real necromancy at level 8. I choose to change that.

Also, Dread Call is perfect. I'll be using that name, thank you. I don't think I'll make it tied to the proficiency bonus.

[Michael7123]

Alright, I updated the class. Fewer dread call uses overall. What do you guys think now?

[Flashy]

It still grants the spells too early. A ranger doesn't even have their low quality CR 1/4 companion at the level at which a Dread Necromancer can swan around commanding a free CR 1/2 zombie with a bonus action. It's thematic, but still much too powerful. To put it another way, if you were building a pyromancer class would you give it free fireballs starting at second level? Would you eventually allow them to cast seven fireballs for free over the course of an adventuring day on top of their other class features? For better or worse the choice to keep minion spells at third level or above was deliberate, and handing them out early will mess with balance whatever you do. If you want to homebrew some low level spell options to replace them that's fine, but the game as written does not expect anyone to have CR 1/4 minions before 3rd level at the absolute earliest.

Additionally, the class is a tad front loaded for my taste. Two levels gets you an undead minion, a fighting style, medium armor proficiency and 9d10 points of self healing. You aren't subject to standard healing spells anymore but that honestly isn't the biggest deal in the universe. The class also also has a dead level at 6th, which is frowned upon in this edition.

I think this class actually works pretty well with the following rearrangement. First kick three of the archetype features up a level (skipping over ASIs) so you get your archetype features at 2, 6, 11 and 17. Keep the existing dread call progression, but start it at 5th level. This shaves only a single use off the 20th level necromancer and doesn't mess with the spell level balance. Move Dread Call improvement to 10th level to prevent that becoming a dead level.



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Dread Call Uses
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
-
Spellcasting, Taint of the Tomb
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
-
Necrotic Path
2
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
-
Rebuke Undead (1/per long rest)
2
4
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
-
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
1
Dread Call
3
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
1
Necrotic Path Feature
3
7
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
1
-
3
8
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
2
Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
+4
2
-
3
10
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
2
Dread Call Improvement
3
11
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
3
Necrotic Path Feature
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
3
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


13th
+5
3
Rebuke Undead (2/per long rest)
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


14th
+5
4
Greater Dread Call Improvement
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


15th
+5
4
-
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


16th
+5
4
Ability Score Improvement,
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


17th
+6
5
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1


18th
+6
5
Lich Body
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1


19th
+6
5
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1


20th
+6
6
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1




This progression keeps much of the flavor, still gives away create undead a level before it theoretically should (though at a stage where it's less likely to mess with game balance), keeps the dread knight from completely eclipsing valor bard as a gish, keeps the scholar from stepping quite so directly on the necromancer wizard's toes and leaves the infernalist (which I love) largely unaffected.


EDIT: Also, it's worth pointing out that I've looked pretty hard and can't actually find much drawback to Taint of the Tomb. You have access to a tremendous pool of personal healing, Bards can get inflict wounds through magical secrets, Wizards and Sorcerers can suddenly heal you, and Life Clerics still get to apply their Preserve Life feature to inflict wounds spells they cast on you (the wording does not require that the spell be a healing spell).

[Michael7123]

It still grants the spells too early. A ranger doesn't even have their low quality CR 1/4 companion at the level at which a Dread Necromancer can swan around commanding a free CR 1/2 zombie with a bonus action. It's thematic, but still much too powerful. To put it another way, if you were building a pyromancer class would you give it free fireballs starting at second level? Would you eventually allow them to cast seven fireballs for free over the course of an adventuring day on top of their other class features? For better or worse the choice to keep minion spells at third level or above was deliberate, and handing them out early will mess with balance whatever you do. If you want to homebrew some low level spell options to replace them that's fine, but the game as written does not expect anyone to have CR 1/4 minions before 3rd level at the absolute earliest.

Additionally, the class is a tad front loaded for my taste. Two levels gets you an undead minion, a fighting style, medium armor proficiency and 9d10 points of self healing. You aren't subject to standard healing spells anymore but that honestly isn't the biggest deal in the universe. The class also also has a dead level at 6th, which is frowned upon in this edition.

I think this class actually works pretty well with the following rearrangement. First kick three of the archetype features up a level (skipping over ASIs) so you get your archetype features at 2, 6, 11 and 17. Keep the existing dread call progression, but start it at 5th level. This shaves only a single use off the 20th level necromancer and doesn't mess with the spell level balance. Move Dread Call improvement to 10th level to prevent that becoming a dead level.



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Dread Call Uses
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
-
Spellcasting, Taint of the Tomb
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
-
Necrotic Path
2
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
-
Rebuke Undead (1/per long rest)
2
4
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
-
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
1
Dread Call
3
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
+3
1
Necrotic Path Feature
3
7
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
+3
1
-
3
8
4
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
+3
2
Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
+4
2
-
3
10
4
3
3
3
1
-
-
-
-


10th
+4
2
Dread Call Improvement
3
11
4
3
3
3
2
-
-
-
-


11th
+4
3
Necrotic Path Feature
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


12th
+4
3
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2
1
-
-
-


13th
+5
3
Rebuke Undead (2/per long rest)
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


14th
+5
4
Greater Dread Call Improvement
4
13
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
-
-


15th
+5
4
-
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


16th
+5
4
Ability Score Improvement,
4
14
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
-


17th
+6
5
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1


18th
+6
5
Lich Body
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1


19th
+6
5
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1


20th
+6
6
Necrotic Path Feature
4
15
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1




This progression keeps much of the flavor, still gives away create undead a level before it theoretically should (though at a stage where it's less likely to mess with game balance), keeps the dread knight from completely eclipsing valor bard as a gish, keeps the scholar from stepping quite so directly on the necromancer wizard's toes and leaves the infernalist (which I love) largely unaffected.

I do like the sound of all of these. Hmmm.... I'll give these serious consideration. I'll probably go for it.

[Michael7123]

EDIT: Also, it's worth pointing out that I've looked pretty hard and can't actually find much drawback to Taint of the Tomb. You have access to a tremendous pool of personal healing, Bards can get inflict wounds through magical secrets, Wizards and Sorcerers can suddenly heal you, and Life Clerics still get to apply their Preserve Life feature to inflict wounds spells they cast on you (the wording does not require that the spell be a healing spell).

While persserve life might work RAW, it certainly doesn't work RAI.

I should probably include some sort of social drawback to taint of the tomb, something along the variety of "the mob of villagers who finds out you're part undead want to kill you.

[Michael7123]

Made some changes to the scholar subclass, lowering it's power level.

[Princess]

This class really needs Meat Puppet from my thread here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429934-Basics-of-Conjuring-and-Reanimation

Because a necromancer who can't always necromance is just no good.

[Michael7123]

This class really needs Meat Puppet from my thread here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429934-Basics-of-Conjuring-and-Reanimation

Because a necromancer who can't always necromance is just no good.

I did kinda solve this problem by granting the ability to create crawling claws from corpses. However, I'll consider adding meat puppet to the spell list, or maybe grant it as a 1/day ability at level one.

[Michael7123]

Alright, I made a bunch of changes to the infernalist subclass. The changes were largely inspired by the corpsecrafter feats from libis mortis.

[Michael7123]

Once the dread necro from 3.5 unlocks 3rd level spells, it unlocks scaborious touch, basically a 1/ day casting of contagion. Since contagion is a level 5 spell in 5th edtion, and I have a dead level at 9, would it be too much to grant a 1/day casting of contagion at that level, maybe even improving it to 2/day at level 15 (another dead level).

[Michael7123]

Added a whole bunch of fluff that's standard in normal PHB classes.

[DracoKnight]

Once the dread necro from 3.5 unlocks 3rd level spells, it unlocks scaborious touch, basically a 1/ day casting of contagion. Since contagion is a level 5 spell in 5th edtion, and I have a dead level at 9, would it be too much to grant a 1/day casting of contagion at that level, maybe even improving it to 2/day at level 15 (another dead level).

9 and 15 aren't dead levels for casters, since they get spells at those levels.

[Ziegander]

Well, you asked me for feedback, so here we are!


CLASS FEATURES
As a dread necromancer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points:
Hit Dice:1d8 per dread necromancer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8+ your constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Level:1d8(or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dread necromancer level after 1st.

Proficiencies:
Armor: Light
Weapons: All simple weapons, and 1 martial weapon of your choice
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Religion, and Stealth.

Equipment:
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.

The martial weapon you choose proficiency in
(a) A component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) A light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) a simple weapon of your choice
(a) an explorer's Pack, (b) a scholar's pack, or (c) a dungeoneer's pack


I question the appropriateness of the light armor and martial weapon. Thematically, I don't see why they are necessary. Even your picture is basically a wizard in robes with a staff. A dread wizard, to be sure, but I don't see a Dread Necromancer being a guy running around in studden leather carrying around a battleaxe. Maybe that's just me. Now, once we get to subclasses, sure, why not, but for the base class I would just stick with the d8 hit dice to signify that these guys are tougher than your average Sorcerer or Wizard.


Taint Of The Tomb:
The dark magic coursing through your body causes significant changes to your organic structure. You take radiant damage equal to the amount of damage you would normally be healed whenever you are the target of a healing spell. You may make a Charisma save to half the damage the spell deals to you. However, if you are the target of a spell that deals necrotic damage, you take no damage and instead heal an amount equal to the damage that would have normally been dealt. You may target yourself with spells that deal necrotic damage, such as inflict wounds) to heal yourself.

Furthermore, undead under your control can heal from necrotic damage from your spells, but not the spells of enemies.

Honestly, I don't like this. The 3.5 Dread Necromancer didn't even get this without the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat (or until 20th level). In 5th edition the ability makes even less sense than it would have in 3rd as Undead aren't default healed by (or even immune to) necrotic damage or damaged by healing spells (they simply can't regain hit points from those spells). 5e Undead aren't even extra vulnerable to radiant damage (for the overwhelming majority).

I would change it so that you don't take any radiant damage, instead you just don't receive healing from Cure Wounds and similar spells, like an Undead (though you can keep the Charisma save for half healing), and I would also remove the immunity to necrotic/healed by necrotic clause. Keep in that if you cast a spell from a spell slot of 1st level or higher that deals necrotic damage you can cast it on yourself to regain hit points equal to the damage it would normally deal, and the clause that allows you to do the same for Undead under your control. This way, you aren't just immune to necrotic damage, enemies that deal necrotic damage can still hurt you with it.


Rebuke Undead:
At level 3, as an action, you shout vile utterances of the primal language that all undead know. Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Charisma saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is rebuked for 1 minute. While a creature is rebuked, it stops and cowers in place, not taking any actions. Attack roles against rebuked creatures have advantage. A creature stops being rebuked once it takes damage.

Additionally, if the challenge rating of the undead rebuked is low enough and it fails it's saving throw, it falls under your control and you can command it as a bonus action. It remains under your control for 24 hours. It's actions towards you afterwards depend on the creature's intelligence (or lack their off) and how it was treated while under your command. If you merely asked it to fight along side you, it will likely be indifferent to you. If you used it as bait or cannon fodder, it may turn on you once it is free of your control.

Command Undead
Dread necromancer Level command Undead of CR
5th : 1/2 or lower
8th : 1 or lower
11th : 2 or lower
14th : 3 or lower
17th : 4 or lower

You can only use rebuke undead once per long rest up until level 13. At level 13, you can use it up to twice per long rest.

This is where the class starts to go a little off for me. As lame as it is, Destroy Undead is a whole 5 levels of class features for the Cleric (8 total if you're counting the additional uses per rest), but Rebuke Undead is just 1 (or 2 counting the additional use). Plus, controlling existing Undead for 24 hours is WAAAAY more useful than instantly destroying them. So, essentially, you're giving your class at least four extra class features over the Cleric. In fact, the Cleric essentially gets nothing other than its domain and Turn/Destroy Undead.


Dread Call:
Starting at fifth level, you gain an amount of dread call uses shown in the chart above. You can expend one of these uses to cast the spell animate dead as if you were casting it as a third level spell. Dread Call uses regenerate after every long rest.

I'm not so sure 6 extra spell slots per day is balanced. The improvements are just gravy on top.


Lich Body:
Once you take your 18th level of dread necromancer, your body further alters to reflect the nature of the necromantic magic you practice. You gain resistance to one of the following damage types of your choice: slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing. This resistance can be overcome by any magic weapon.

This seems a little underwhelming for the class level, but given that the base chassis seems a little strong, that's okay.

I'll follow up with additional critiques of the subclasses.

[Scaileanna]

Well, you asked me for feedback, so here we are!



I question the appropriateness of the light armor and martial weapon. Thematically, I don't see why they are necessary. Even your picture is basically a wizard in robes with a staff. A dread wizard, to be sure, but I don't see a Dread Necromancer being a guy running around in studden leather carrying around a battleaxe. Maybe that's just me. Now, once we get to subclasses, sure, why not, but for the base class I would just stick with the d8 hit dice to signify that these guys are tougher than your average Sorcerer

Light armor makes sense as the original DN's main power was charnel touch and that required you to get Into the fray as for the material weapon that would work better with the subclass

[Michael7123]

I question the appropriateness of the light armor and martial weapon. Thematically, I don't see why they are necessary. Even your picture is basically a wizard in robes with a staff. A dread wizard, to be sure, but I don't see a Dread Necromancer being a guy running around in studden leather carrying around a battleaxe. Maybe that's just me. Now, once we get to subclasses, sure, why not, but for the base class I would just stick with the d8 hit dice to signify that these guys are tougher than your average Sorcerer or Wizard.

In most DND settings, a sorcerer of good, nuetral, or lawful evil alignment can go into a town and make a fairly decent living for himself without getting into much trouble. They wear robes because armor isn't really necessary for them.i

This is not the case for anyone who's a dread necromancer. The forces of evil want to cut you up to see what makes you tick, and the forces of good want to cut you up to make you stop ticking. You are treated as "Other" by even the most magic accepting people out there. You can't just rely on your spells to protect you. They are limited in scope, and will eventually run out. Defeat almost always means death. You'll take whatever advantage you can get.

Even the image above looks like someone who's wearing robes over some leather armor of some sort, and the skull over his chest looks metal IMHO. Either way, I liked this from 3.5, so I kept it.


Honestly, I don't like this. The 3.5 Dread Necromancer didn't even get this without the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat (or until 20th level). In 5th edition the ability makes even less sense than it would have in 3rd as Undead aren't default healed by (or even immune to) necrotic damage or damaged by healing spells (they simply can't regain hit points from those spells). 5e Undead aren't even extra vulnerable to radiant damage (for the overwhelming majority).

I would change it so that you don't take any radiant damage, instead you just don't receive healing from Cure Wounds and similar spells, like an Undead (though you can keep the Charisma save for half healing), and I would also remove the immunity to necrotic/healed by necrotic clause. Keep in that if you cast a spell from a spell slot of 1st level or higher that deals necrotic damage you can cast it on yourself to regain hit points equal to the damage it would normally deal, and the clause that allows you to do the same for Undead under your control. This way, you aren't just immune to necrotic damage, enemies that deal necrotic damage can still hurt you with it.

I know you don't get this without the tomb tainted soul feat, but who didn't take that feat when playing a dread necromancer. Its such a fundamental part of any dread necromancer build, that I felt like I had to include it.

Hmmmmmm......

I must admit that your sugestion does seem balanced. However, from a thematic standpoint, it really goes against what I was hoping for from the class. I'll likely include the part about only having resistance to necrotic damage from enemies, but I will probably keep the part about straight up taking damage from healing. After all, you aren't undead. You're a half baked undead with some negative features to him. Also, I might change it from being radiant damage and into untyped damage.


This is where the class starts to go a little off for me. As lame as it is, Destroy Undead is a whole 5 levels of class features for the Cleric (8 total if you're counting the additional uses per rest), but Rebuke Undead is just 1 (or 2 counting the additional use). Plus, controlling existing Undead for 24 hours is WAAAAY more useful than instantly destroying them. So, essentially, you're giving your class at least four extra class features over the Cleric. In fact, the Cleric essentially gets nothing other than its domain and Turn/Destroy Undead.

Good point. I obviously designed this as the simple inverse of turn undead, but that's too powerful. Maybe I'll limit the duration of control to 1 hour?



I'm not so sure 6 extra spell slots per day is balanced. The improvements are just gravy on top.

Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks all have a way to regain spell slots.

At level 20, a wizard can use arcane restoration to restore 3 level 3 spell slots (and 1 level 1 slot). This equates to 3 extra animate dead uses. Of course, you can cast any of your spells with this.

At level 20, a sorcerer can use his sorcerer points to restore 4 level 3 spell slots. This could equal 4 animate dead castings, or the casting of any other 3rd level spell. Of course, he also has the options to use metamagic, but so does this class depending on the options you take.

At level 20, the warlock can regain all of his level 5 spell slots in one minute due to the nature of his capstone. Before that, he only needs a short rest.

The dread necromancer can cast a maximum of 3 different spells with his spell slots (animate dead, create undead, and planar binding), but unless you pick the right options, can only cast 1 spell. Furthermore, create undead and planar binding take up one of these uses. In short, while you might get more spell slots with the dread necromancer than the other classes, these spell slots have very limited versatility compared to the core classes. I think it winds up being a fair trade off.


This seems a little underwhelming for the class level, but given that the base chassis seems a little strong, that's okay.

That was kind of the point. It's basically meant as a high level ribbon.



I'll follow up with additional critiques of the subclasses.

Awesome! However, I would like you to hold of on critiquing the dread knight until I update it. I've got some ideas I'd like your feedback on more than the current features.

Thanks for the help!

[Ziegander]

I know you don't get this without the tomb tainted soul feat, but who didn't take that feat when playing a dread necromancer. Its such a fundamental part of any dread necromancer build, that I felt like I had to include it.

Hmmmmmm......

I must admit that your sugestion does seem balanced. However, from a thematic standpoint, it really goes against what I was hoping for from the class. I'll likely include the part about only having resistance to necrotic damage from enemies, but I will probably keep the part about straight up taking damage from healing. After all, you aren't undead. You're a half baked undead with some negative features to him. Also, I might change it from being radiant damage and into untyped damage.

Well, my point is that 3.5's positive and negative energy are mechanically a far cry from 5e's radiant and necrotic damage. Healing effects have nothing to do with radiant damage, and Undead aren't all even resistant to necrotic, let alone immune (skeletons and zombies, for example, are neither resistant nor immune to necrotic damage). Undead are certainly not healed by necrotic damage in 5th edition.

Tomb-Tainted Soul made sense thematically in 3rd edition, because that's how Undeath and negative energy worked. But you're trying to shoehorn 3.5 mechanics into 5e where nothing else in the game works that way and claiming that it's thematic because that's how it worked before. By my suggestion, I'm just trying to make your Dread Necromancer become more Undead-ish by having him start functioning somewhat like how 5e Undead function which, again, is almost not at all how 3e Undead used to function.


Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks all have a way to regain spell slots.

You know, you're absolutely right. The extra Animate Dead uses seem totally fine with that perspective.


Awesome! However, I would like you to hold of on critiquing the dread knight until I update it. I've got some ideas I'd like your feedback on more than the current features.

Okay, sure thing.


Thanks for the help!

No problem!

[Michael7123]

Well, my point is that 3.5's positive and negative energy are mechanically a far cry from 5e's radiant and necrotic damage. Healing effects have nothing to do with radiant damage, and Undead aren't all even resistant to necrotic, let alone immune (skeletons and zombies, for example, are neither resistant nor immune to necrotic damage). Undead are certainly not healed by necrotic damage in 5th edition.

Tomb-Tainted Soul made sense thematically in 3rd edition, because that's how Undeath and negative energy worked. But you're trying to shoehorn 3.5 mechanics into 5e where nothing else in the game works that way and claiming that it's thematic because that's how it worked before. By my suggestion, I'm just trying to make your Dread Necromancer become more Undead-ish by having him start functioning somewhat like how 5e Undead function which, again, is almost not at all how 3e Undead used to function.


I'll consider all of this. I'm not sure if I'll go with it ultimately, because I wanted to build this class to help people who have DN's in 3.5 transition to 5th smoothly. Using my character as an example, the entire reason he was abandoned by his villagers (including someone who was almost like a second father figure to him) was because he got nuked by a healing spell. I don't really want to do anything that could mess up the feel of the class for people who are making the transfer.

Anyways, I do really appreciate your help. I do have two more questions to ask you though.

1. Scaborious Touch (1/day contagion) at level 9. Yea or Nay?

2. Does all the fluff I wrote seem good to you?

[Michael7123]

Alright, the Dread Knight is updated now.

[Michael7123]

Made the change regarding the length of rebuke undead. Also, I added Scabrous touch, which lets you cast contagion for free once per long rest at level 9, and twice per long rest at level 15.

I know what you're all probably thinking: that two extra level 5 spells, in addition to the dread call ability of this class, is far too much. Here's why I did it.

1. It's a carry over from 3.5, and I liked the feature in that edition. I adjusted it so you can't cast contagion untill you actually could learn the spell normally, just like in 3.5.

2. It filled up the level 9 and 15 feature slots. The original DN had no empty feature slots, and I don't want to either. If someone can think of a good ribon for level 7, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking maybe poison immunity or resistance.

3. Most important reason here. You have selection to a limited amount of spells. A large number of your spells target constitution saving throws. Monsters, by and large, have good con saves. With this class feature, you make up for the fact that you need monsters to make save's they're good at by forcing 2 enemies per day to have disadvantage on those throws. Furthermore, to make sure that this strategy isn't risk proof, you have to be able to touch a target to cast the spell. I know you get light armor, but you're CON and Dex won't be to high. This strategy could easily backfire, which is intentional.

Overall, I think it's balanced.

[Palorin]

Looks really awesome to me! Any chance of crafting the class into a downloadable pdf file?

[SodaDarwin]

I love it.
But, are your undead minions temporary, or permanent? Thus, do you have a squad, or can you get an undead horde to obey you? I understand that Rebuke causes temporary control, but what about the spells?

[Michael7123]

Looks really awesome to me! Any chance of crafting the class into a downloadable pdf file?

I'll be creating a version of this on dropbox soon enough. You can download it from there.


I love it.
But, are your undead minions temporary, or permanent? Thus, do you have a squad, or can you get an undead horde to obey you? I understand that Rebuke causes temporary control, but what about the spells?

The way the spells work is described in the player handbook. Basically, you have control of your minions for 24 hours, but you can ccast animate dead or create undead (where appropriate) to regain controll of them.

[Michael7123]

I added a new 1st level spell, conjure undead creatures. I could use some feedback on it's balance.

Furthermore, here's a version of the class available on dropbox. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wiorlsxbcteqda9/Dread%20Necromancer%205e%20%28Update%202%29.docx?d l=0)

[SodaDarwin]

The concentrate requirement on the spell is of concern to me, as I'm interested in playing as a Dread Knight. I don't quite remember the rules for concentration off the top of my head, but I will say this: while it does definitely help balance it, Dread Knights will be in the action and therefor very susceptible to losing the concentration and thus creating problems with the idea of leading your army.

[Michael7123]

The concentrate requirement on the spell is of concern to me, as I'm interested in playing as a Dread Knight. I don't quite remember the rules for concentration off the top of my head, but I will say this: while it does definitely help balance it, Dread Knights will be in the action and therefor very susceptible to losing the concentration and thus creating problems with the idea of leading your army.

You have to make a constitution check equal to either 10 or the damage delt (whichever is higher) if I recall correctly. I would go with taking the warcaster feat (which lets you cast spells on AOOs and more importantly, gives you advantage on concentration checks). Furthermore, your Constitution should already be pretty high, since you are playing a character who uses melee weapons.

Finally, if you loose control, you can always rebuke your undead back into serving you.

Also, if you ever get to play as a dread knight, let me know how it went!

[SodaDarwin]

Lots of good points and tips. A'ight.
And will do! ...on the offchance it ever happens. :smallfrown:

[Michael7123]

Lots of good points and tips. A'ight.
And will do! ...on the offchance it ever happens. :smallfrown:

Well, there are some play by post games on these forums. Maybe ask around, see if a DM is willing to let you try this class.

[SodaDarwin]

And so I awake in the middle of the night, unable to sleep due to a question running through my head.
What kind of necromantic manic/hero wouldn't have some (arguably) permanent undead companion? Level 7 is the only level without some special, unique benefit, so it could fit in there. Might make the class become just a bit much though, but here's my thought:

At level 7, the magic in your unholy bloodline becomes strong enough to raise a helpful, mostly fresh, undead servant of a CR no more than one third (maybe a quarter?) of your level. You may awaken to find that they are there, or you may actively create them. Regardless, they are loyal and will obey your (nearly) every order. They will not directly get involved in combat. They may not, however, do so without snark. They are mostly fresh after all.
Any attempts to be rid of the servant will fail, they will unerringly find you again within the week. If they die, they will claim a new body to use to help you. Again, within the week. It will still be the same servant, though in a new corpse.
Infernalists instead gain a fiend as a servant. Otherwise, this is identical.

There, a permanent noncombatant who will help you always, no matter your task. However, you get them whether you want them or not, which may bring up some problems of its own.

[Michael7123]

And so I awake in the middle of the night, unable to sleep due to a question running through my head.
What kind of necromantic manic/hero wouldn't have some (arguably) permanent undead companion? Level 7 is the only level without some special, unique benefit, so it could fit in there. Might make the class become just a bit much though, but here's my thought:

At level 7, the magic in your unholy bloodline becomes strong enough to raise a helpful, mostly fresh, undead servant of a CR no more than one third (maybe a quarter?) of your level. You may awaken to find that they are there, or you may actively create them. Regardless, they are loyal and will obey your (nearly) every order. They will not directly get involved in combat. They may not, however, do so without snark. They are mostly fresh after all.
Any attempts to be rid of the servant will fail, they will unerringly find you again within the week. If they die, they will claim a new body to use to help you. Again, within the week. It will still be the same servant, though in a new corpse.
Infernalists instead gain a fiend as a servant. Otherwise, this is identical.

There, a permanent noncombatant who will help you always, no matter your task. However, you get them whether you want them or not, which may bring up some problems of its own.

Eh, while this might be cool to have around a villainous character, it would be a colossal pain in the @$$ for PC's. Good luck living in any city of good people if you've got an undead creature following you arround all the time. You might as well shout out "I practice the dark arts!'

[SodaDarwin]

Point. But hey, could just stuff him in a bag :P
Or, more seriously, make him wear some cloak. Put your absurd Charisma modifier to use, make nobody bat an eye!

[Michael7123]

Point. But hey, could just stuff him in a bag :P
Or, more seriously, make him wear some cloak. Put your absurd Charisma modifier to use, make nobody bat an eye!

Temporary solution at best. Even a natural 20 on a deception check won't let you convince a guard that the skeleton is a living human being if they see any exposed bones.

[SodaDarwin]

Hence my stating of "Mostly fresh", so nothing obviously undead. Maybe a bit off, but not a skeleton or rotten corpse.