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Cade Shadow
2007-05-05, 09:30 PM
I was thinking of making a Paladin whose focus was on preserving balance between good and Evil. I'm imagining him to have the ability to smite both good and evil, but that might not work out int he end

Same base attack/save progression as a regular paladin. It may perhaps keep the lay on hands ability. Is there such a thing as Aura of Neutrality?

Basically all I have is a concept, nothing else.

Please help.

Korias
2007-05-05, 09:55 PM
I assume your going for a Paladin of True Neutrality?

If so, you will need to give the paladin 4 Smites, Ones for each extreme.

Innis Cabal
2007-05-05, 10:52 PM
well an aura of neutrality would either an aura of Apathay, that of uncaring, or an aura that cuases peace. And give them the ability the Rilmani have...deal 2d6 against good, evil, law, and chaos...so 4d6 against anyone that isnt TN, 2d6 against those that are CN and LN

Erk
2007-05-05, 11:40 PM
/me weeps at non-LG paladins.

innis, that rilmani damage rule sounds a bit overpowered for a TN paladin. Cade, why not make the character select what each of his smites is going to be? I.E. every time the level up list says "smite evil 1/day" on the paladin spec, the player selects if he is going to add a daily Smite Evil or Smite Good. That way the TN paladin has the option of doing either, or just one, and pays for versatility by getting fewer uses per day if fighting enemies of a single alignment class. Or perhaps he chooses one at character creation, and his Turn Undead/Rebuke Undead falls into the same bailiwick? Like with neutral clerics? That seems a bit too non-neutral to me though.

Alternatively it would be fun if P.of B.'s with Smite Good had Turn Undead, and those with Smite Evil had Rebuke Undead. Heh.

I think get something other than Lay on Hands. That is pretty Good-aligned. Perhaps give him Restore Balance, a touch ability that dispelled magical effects, both good and bad, and used lay-on-hands points to determine the level of spells that could be dispelled? Takes some calculations to figure out how to work it but it seems more in line.

No ideas for Aura of Neutrality at the moment.

TheOOB
2007-05-06, 01:16 AM
For the record, in order to "hold the balance between good and evil" you would have to harm good people, which would in turn make you evil and not balanced at all. Actions determine alignment, not philosophies.

That said, the "smite" abilities are pretty weak, even if they did work on anyone. They add a very small amount of damage a very small amount of times per a day, in all truth the attack bonus is more useful then the damage, but it has too few uses to be truely worthwhile.

Innis Cabal
2007-05-06, 06:09 AM
actully OOB if you harm good people that dosnt make you evil, killing god people just ecuase does make you evil. Ya its about actions but killing evil people dosnt make you good. Murder is evil, that action is wrong, but defending yourself from good or evil wont make you alignment shift, nor will killing one good person cuase you to go to CE like a gunshot. That being said the Rilmani are TN and they kill good and evil people all the time, and they were around in 2nd ed....so in short this class could get away with it

Grey Paladin
2007-05-06, 06:16 AM
A paladin of balance is what my account is named upon so I am fully supporting you =P

A Paladin of Balance is pretty much a Second Edition Druid, you must always help the underdog from the preceptive of the universe, for you, good and evil are not ideals, but two sides that must remain balanced for the greater "good" for the lack of a better term, of the universe.


In 2E there was a legendary artifact named Sword of Balance, it was the TN equivalent of a Holy Avenger, look it up and make a 4th level spell named Sword of Balance that grants it's qualities to the weapon you are wielding at the moment.

An Aura of neutrality would not be an aura of Apathy, apathy is an evil quality, the lack of care for others, the Paladin of Balance cares more then any other, while good paladins care for one side the Paladin of Balance cares for the universe itself, for the well-being of existence.

I think an Aura of Understanding may be a good idea, basically it'll cause others to more easily understand opposed view points, rendering them alignmentless for the purpose of spells and abilities used by anyone but the Paladin.

As for Lay on Hands, Giving the Paladin both the ability to heal and harm but have half the points seems appropriate.

Smite could be usable on any non true neutral target at half the effects or on Non-neutral Paladins, Clerics, or Outsiders at double the effect.

Jarchh
2007-05-06, 06:23 AM
I assume your going for a Paladin of True Neutrality?

If so, you will need to give the paladin 4 Smites, Ones for each extreme.


He'd only need two smites, one for evil one for good.. he wants a paladin who maintains the balance between good and evil there was never anything mentioned about order and chaos..anyway preserving that balance always seemed like more of a LN thing to me.. not sure why.

deadfalcon
2007-05-06, 06:56 AM
I'm really likign the sound of this, and if the Dm allows it when it is finished I will most likely play it. Jarchh makes a good point. I'd suggest making it follow an ethial code, like the Good Pali, I've been doing some ethics study recently and I'd suggest useing something based on Virtue ethics, Wiki it if you're not sure what it is. Or find some other code wich dosent involve doing background reading :P

Falconsflight
2007-05-06, 07:28 AM
Okay, For the smite evil: You could allow the person to choose. He can choose to be a paladin of neutrality on the Good-Evil axis or the Law-Chaos Axis. (It is hard, if not impossible, to maintain neutrality on both accounts at the same time.)

Also, you have to figure if the character is apathetic to the world or wishing to restore balance. The problem with restoring balance on the good-evil alignment is you would be one guy versus Paladins and Blackgaurds. Angels and demons. Becuase an Angel is too good, while a Demon is too evil. Or you can choose the path that as long as the "angels" and the "demons" numbers are about the same, it is balanced. So essentially you would be flipping sides all the time. One day you'll work with a paladin to kill off a nesting of vampires in a nearby cathedral. The next day you'll be with a pack of theives trying to stop robin hood from spreading the wealth (yes, I know that analagy is bad.)

It's easier on the Law versus chaos Axis, which is something I think should eb explored more. Mainly becuase it is a lot easier to define and follow than Good versus evil (as the above paragraph showed.) You'll be the guy that is hired by the dictator to stop a rebellion. But the next day you'll help a rebellion overthrow a dictator. You do not wish for anarchy, but you don't wish for true law.

So to sum up. Make a Paladin of Nuetrality who works on the Law-Chaos stratification, rather than the good-Evil. Since we already have champions of Good and Evil (Paladin and Blackgaurd respectively.)

deadfalcon
2007-05-06, 08:10 AM
hm... I've been thinking some more about the whole code thing. What I've come up with so far is the following ideology that this class might follow. "Law restricts freedom and limits progress, Chaos has no structure and hence makes progress impossible as there is no real sense of the future (you live in the now not thinking about tomorrow). Evil is wrong as it creates suffering and thus limits progress as suffering restrict thought. Good is wrong as it trys to eliminate suffering and with out suffering we cannot know when we are wrong and thus make no progress. the middle path is the right path where progress can be made and a new world born.

It's abit longwinded and such but it could work as a code for the class. feel free to discredit it thou, i have a feeling that it has plenty of flaws

Cade Shadow
2007-05-06, 11:30 AM
What about in the place of the detect evil ability?

Giving both a detect evil and a detect good may be a little extreme.... perhaps giving it that ability but will only if it would detect as strong or overwhelming?

Grey Paladin, I have no way to look up the Sword of balance idea, but that seems really cool and seems perfect for this character, both the sword and the spell.

This is what I have so far

Paladin of Balance
{table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Aura of Neutrality, smite others(?) 1/day

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Commitment to Cause , restore balance

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Aura of Peace, Perseverance

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Calm Undead

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Smite others 2/day, Special Mount

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2|Remove Disease 1/week

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|Remove Disease 2/week

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Smite others 3/day

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|Remove Disease 3/week

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5|Remove Disease 4/week, smite others 4/day

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6|Remove Disease 5/week

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Smite others 5/day[/table]

Aura of Neutrality
The power of a paladin of balance’s aura of neutrality is equal to her paladin level. The Paladin may also use this as a 10ft wide sanctuary spell for a number of round equal to her paladin level. (unbalanced?)

Smite others
Once per day, a paladin of balance may attempt to smite others with one normal melee attack. She gains a bonus equal to her charisma bonus on attack rolls and deals an additional 2d6 against good and evil

Commitment to Cause
At 2nd level, a paladin of Balance gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Restore Balance
Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can undo magical effects by touch. Each day she can undo a total number of spell levels equal to her paladin level her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her restoration among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using restore balance is a standard action. (Does restore balance need its balance restored?)

Aura of Peace
Beginning at 3rd level, each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects and each enemy takes a -2 penalty on all saving throws.

This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

Perseverance
A Paladin of Balance is immune to poisons.

Calm Undead
A Paladin of Balance calms undead and the affected undead are unable to be turned or rebuked by clerics or paladins. The undead take no actions unless any of the affected undead are attacked, in which case they return to normal.

Special Mount
As paladin's ability

Remove Disease
As paladin's ability

Code of conduct
The Paladin's code is as follows

"I am a Paladin of Balance
In my profession I have realized that neither Good or evil is right
Evil creates suffering and allows no road to progress
Good eliminates sufferings and will not allow us to see the wrongs of our actions
Only by staying between Good and evil may we better ourselves
Only through the middle path may we make progress and know what to do
As a Paladin of Balance, this is my creed, my oath, my life."


Paladin's Spells
Add the following spells to the Paladin of Balance's spell list:

1st level:
Bane
cause fear
inflict light wounds
protection from good


2nd level
hold person

3rd
magic circle against good
inflict moderate wounds

4th
inflict serious wounds
dimensional anchor
dismissal


remove the following:
1st level
create water
divine favor
protection from chaos

2nd
undetectable alignment

3rd
magic circle against chaos

4th
Holy sword


Any more ideas?

LoopyZebra
2007-05-06, 10:06 PM
I might have got here a bit late, but this may help:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny

Tor the Fallen
2007-05-07, 10:47 AM
Ooh, cool idea!
I imagine this would be the sort of character that has fought on both sides of the Blood War, yet the Heavens still extend him a welcome.

Fluff-wise, he'd work for some ancient, mysterious, and extremely powerful order that seeks to keep balance in the multiverse. Most would see him as mercenary, calculating, and coldly pragmatic, a self-serving and reprehensible fellow. Few, save the great lore masters, would be aware of his ulterior motives, and who he truly served.

I'd take out some of the knight in flashing armor aspect, and add some subterfuge to the class.

Matthew
2007-05-15, 10:08 PM
Ahh, The Blood War, the single coolest concept D&D ever came up with... I hate Threads like this, and yet, the idea of a Warrior fighting on both sides of the Blood War in order to preserve the balance of the Multiverse undeniably and inexplicably appeals to me...