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View Full Version : DM Help Balanced fights and lots of players



Silus
2015-08-11, 06:29 PM
So I started a new Pathfinder campaign and after the first session I realize I don't really have much of an idea of what I'm doing.

1) Firstly I've got trouble balancing encounters. First session I threw like 5 CR 1/2, 2 CR 1/3 and a CR 2 at the players (5 players) and realized very quickly that that was far too much. So any tips on general CR and quick an dirty CR calculations would be greatly helpful.

2) One of the issues with the group is that there's no proper arcane caster and one of the players is distressed about this. Anything as a DM I should be mindful of or do to offset this lack of coverage?

3) Lastly, the party has exploded to 8 players. As this is only my 3rd campaign, I was hoping for some advice on dealing with so many players. I'd rather not boot anyone and want to make it work. And as a relate question, any tips on mapmaking to accommodate a large group?

Demidos
2015-08-11, 06:43 PM
1. Starting at level 1 is a great way for your PCs to die rather pointlessly. Starting at 2-3 gives them the appropriate "head and shoulders above the rest" start, while also boosting their capabilities to make them more interesting and keeping them from dying as easily.

2. Arcane casting generally tends towards utility, while divine tends towards healing and buffing. That can be overcome with dedication or multiclassing (some sort of eldritch knight?), but mostly just means your party will be a little weaker than normal.

3. Make two groups out of the single large one, or if you have frequent attendance problems, make them part of a "mercenary guild" which sends particular operatives to particular missions. 8 players in one party means that the CRs of the monsters need to be so boosted as to risk the enemy boss oneshotting the PCs.

BootStrapTommy
2015-08-11, 06:45 PM
http://donjon.bin.sh/pathfinder/encounter/

This thing does math stuff!

Mechalich
2015-08-11, 07:34 PM
Large numbers of enemies, especially at low-levels, make the PCs highly vulnerable to swing-y events. It also makes it harder for the party to achieve flanking bonuses and much more vulnerable to being flanked.

A party with 8 players is, if everyone shows up, more or less unmanageable. That many people breaks the assumptions of action economy in a huge way. If you add in minions of any kind it only gets worse. Depending on attendance issues you may want to split the group - if you have large numbers show up regularly you might also have some people play secondary characters such as animal companions or other minions, though that sort of maneuver has a tendency to leave people dissatisfied.

Silus
2015-08-12, 07:00 AM
Large numbers of enemies, especially at low-levels, make the PCs highly vulnerable to swing-y events. It also makes it harder for the party to achieve flanking bonuses and much more vulnerable to being flanked.

A party with 8 players is, if everyone shows up, more or less unmanageable. That many people breaks the assumptions of action economy in a huge way. If you add in minions of any kind it only gets worse. Depending on attendance issues you may want to split the group - if you have large numbers show up regularly you might also have some people play secondary characters such as animal companions or other minions, though that sort of maneuver has a tendency to leave people dissatisfied.

Some of the guys in the group have suggested breaking the group up into two with one of them running a game during the week as opposed to the usual Saturdays. Not really sure how well this would work though (as it's hard enough for some of the players to secure Saturdays off reliably).

There's a part of me that's saying to just do it and soldier on ahead. Like the only real way to figure out how to handle a large group is to actually do it and get some experience doing so.

BWR
2015-08-12, 07:16 AM
On point two, as a DM you basically have two options when there are perceived inadequacies in party composition. You can either tell the group that they are free to continue as they wish but will find the game difficult or impossible without fixing said 'problem' or you can alter the game so that said 'problem' isn't a problem. In the case of no arcane caster, either tell the players that one of them really should roll up a wizard to help things along or just assure them that you will if not necessarily always play to their strengths at least not entirely invalidate their characters because they don't have the Magic Key that Fixes Every Possible Problem.
What one should generally not do is keeping your mouth shut about how the players really need X in their party and then proceed to massacre the PCs and just shrug it off and say the players were stupid for not having X. Granted there are certain games where this is acceptable but in most D&D related situations it's just being a jerk.

Surpriser
2015-08-12, 11:11 AM
1) In addition to what others have said, try to stay away from "Big Bad Boss Solo Monster" fights. These things tend to transform from minor roadbump to instant character death without any middle ground in between.
CR for level 1 is hard to handle, as most fights depend a lot on good/bad rolls. If you have to play level 1, err on the side of caution - it is easier for you to bring in unexpected reinforcements than for a player to create a new character.

2) Keep in mind the abilities available to your group. This is especially important when using published adventures, as they are usually written with a standard party setup in mind. You can also help by providing easy access to an NPC spellcaster (note: NPC, not DMPC!), scrolls and other items of important spells.

3) If you are intent on playing with a large group, ensure that turns pass as quickly as possible.
- Restrict / Ban any sort of animal companion, familiar, minion, hireling, summoned monster ,... Everyone gets one set of actions per turn (except for you of course).
- Require everyone to plan their turn in advance, so they can immediately start declaring their actions in advance. Also: If someone does not know what an ability does and does not have the relevant rule immediately available, that ability will have to wait for the next turn.
- At the same time, try to complete the monster's turns as fast as possible. Prepare a few standard strategies and responses for probable situations, so you don't have to stop and think about what the goblins are going to do next. Don't panic if you make a mistake, just roll with it.
- It can also help to appoint an assistant DM. Depending on how far you want to go with this, they can handle things like tracking initiative, look up rules or even play (some of) the monsters for you.