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View Full Version : Quick, hug me! My wand will work better!



Dhavaer
2007-05-09, 05:03 AM
If Youíre Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions) or a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions)). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.
Activate a Magic Item

You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesnít require spell completion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#spellCompletion) activation. You donít need to make a grapple check to activate the item.



1. Acquire level 20 Hexblade.
2. Acquire wand of baleful polymorph.
3. Grapple Hexblade.
4. Hexblade uses baleful polymorph 4 times/round.
5. ???
6. Profit!



Does this work?

Ikkitosen
2007-05-09, 05:21 AM
I think the use of the word "some" in "some of these actions" means no. Unfortunately, he he.

Caelestion
2007-05-09, 05:42 AM
I thknk that's a clear case where common sense should rule over any rules interpretation!

Devil's Advocate: That said, allowing a wizard to activate a wizard wand once per round per iterative attack isn't a dreadful idea...

Roderick_BR
2007-05-09, 06:07 AM
Free Timestop? lol. Yeah, the kind of situation a DM need to be careful when a player want to misinterpret the rules in his favor.

That said, this thread's title IS a bit awkward... XD

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-09, 06:55 AM
I thknk that's a clear case where common sense should rule over any rules interpretation!

Devil's Advocate: That said, allowing a wizard to activate a wizard wand once per round per iterative attack isn't a dreadful idea...Umm, it isn't? Are you sure about that?

Theodoxus
2007-05-09, 07:11 AM
Can't make a wand of time stop, so that's ok.

As posted by the OP, it would work... I'll need to see the entire entry though.


Ok, after reading the entire passage, it does appear that activation a magic item falls under the 'you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks.' A number of the other things you can do specify 'standard, move or full round' action, while activating a magic item does not.

Seems like a nice loophole for the two party mages to grapple each other and start flinging magic missiles and lightning bolts from the wands... course, they'd have to be pretty high level to get enough iterative attacks to make it worthwhile - but it certainly appears to be true, based on RAW.

I also believe its bad editing and not what should be...

Caelestion
2007-05-09, 07:13 AM
Well, wands are only 1st to 4th-level, but I'm sure there are game-breaking effects that can be exploited.

Lapak
2007-05-09, 08:03 AM
Well, wands are only 1st to 4th-level, but I'm sure there are game-breaking effects that can be exploited.Right off the top of my head, any save-or-lose effects become a lot more effective when you can toss 2-4 of them at the same target in one round, and there are enough of those in levels 1-4 that even the lower save DCs will probably not balance it out. Charm Monsterx4 on the same target give any wizard a pretty good shot at having a brand-new friend.

Annarrkkii
2007-05-09, 10:07 AM
I see no reason this wouldn't work. Which is sad. Especially since you can technically manage this as a halfling if you use your familiar to acquire a cat, and just have it grapple you...

The Cathat of Wandslinging.

EDIT: Believe it or not, this would be beast with direct damage spells, as well. A CL 9 wand of Empower Magic Missile would be doing 25([1d4+1]*1.5) every round... That averages to 113 inescapable damage in a turn. Maximize instead of empower and the damage jumps to a guaranteed 125, but the maximum drops from 175. And is available at middish levels. Doesn't work for a Hexblade, though. Better bet for a gish.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-09, 10:14 AM
A Fig1/Wiz5/EK10/AbjChamp4 would have a high enough BAB to be able to make a full series of iterative attacks with wands...

I'm pretty sure you can break this even more with Leadership (Cohort with a Gish build to grapple and get insane number of shots off per round).

Granted, you'd be going through Wands pretty rapidly, but oh the destruction...

This reminds me of WandChucks...

Borogove
2007-05-10, 01:19 AM
If You’re Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

Activate a Magic Item

You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesn’t require spell completion activation. You don’t need to make a grapple check to activate the item.
...

Escape from Grapple

You can escape a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you so desire, but this requires a standard action. If more than one opponent is grappling you, your grapple check result has to beat all their individual check results to escape. (Opponents don’t have to try to hold you if they don’t want to.) If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent(s). Being grappled doesn't change what sort of action activating a wand requires. Note that the line of text talking about actions replacing attacks mentions "some actions", and that escape from grapple action expressly refers to replacing an attack, where as activating a magic item does not.

Jack Mann
2007-05-10, 01:42 AM
Don't use a wand. Use a staff. High level spells that use your caster level and ability score. Use a cleric, with divine power for the full four spells a round.

bighead
2007-05-10, 02:22 AM
Being grappled doesn't change what sort of action activating a wand requires. Note that the line of text talking about actions replacing attacks mentions "some actions", and that escape from grapple action expressly refers to replacing an attack, where as activating a magic item does not.

Yup, you are correct. The text says "some" of these actions, and it allows attempts. For example drawing a weapon, if you have a high enough base attack bonus, it allows you more attempts to draw your weapon, but at lower grapple scores. Using a wand is still a standard action. Its not a loophole. If you look under wands and standard actions you'll see you only get one of those.