Thoughts on sniper/scout build

[Spacehamster]

So at level 6 atm all levels in champ fighter archery style, variant human with +1DEX, +1CON and stealth prof. One ASI taken as +1 to both those again for maxed stats. Vuman feat sharpshooter and other ASI crossbow expert.

This is the definite pc I will play as other player takes up DM duties next week. Stats are at lvl 6:

STR: 16
DEX: 20
CON: 20
INT: 14
WIS: 17
CHA: 16

Skills: athletics, perception, stealth, survival and acrobatics.

Next two levels will be old one warlock for telepathy, short rest spell slots for hex and Devils sight. Remaining will be assassin for auto crits, expertise, cunning action and sneak attack die and so on. :)

Thoughts on the build and on what feats I should pick are welcome. :)

[ImSAMazing]

I have never used it, but the feat Skulker sounds && seems cool to me. Really useful when you are sniping a target with Sharpshooter but you missed and he shouldn't know you shooted at him.

[Spacehamster]

I have never used it, but the feat Skulker sounds && seems cool to me. Really useful when you are sniping a target with Sharpshooter but you missed and he shouldn't know you shooted at him.

Thought about this feat but decided not to take it since half the feat is wasted since I got Devils sight, and with two attacks and attacking out of stealth with advantage(you do get that from attacking undetected right? Afb atm) I do not see myself missing enough for it to be viable. :)

[MaxWilson]

So at level 6 atm all levels in champ fighter archery style, variant human with +1DEX, +1CON and stealth prof. One ASI taken as +1 to both those again for maxed stats. Vuman feat sharpshooter and other ASI crossbow expert.

This is the definite pc I will play as other player takes up DM duties next week. Stats are at lvl 6:

STR: 16
DEX: 20
CON: 20
INT: 14
WIS: 17
CHA: 16

Skills: athletics, perception, stealth, survival and acrobatics.

Next two levels will be old one warlock for telepathy, short rest spell slots for hex and Devils sight. Remaining will be assassin for auto crits, expertise, cunning action and sneak attack die and so on. :)

Thoughts on the build and on what feats I should pick are welcome. :)

Wow, my first thought it "You rolled 16 18 18 14 17 16?!? Wow."

My second thought is, "Yeah, rogue multiclass seems like a good choice for this guy." Personally I would be tempted by Arcane Trickster for access to Shield, but I see the appeal of Assassin too.

Consider Athletics expertise when you pick up your Rogue levels. Having nigh-unstoppable Pushing/Grappling is niche but it's a pretty wide niche with many applications.

[Spacehamster]

Wow, my first thought it "You rolled 16 18 18 14 17 16?!? Wow."

My second thought is, "Yeah, rogue multiclass seems like a good choice for this guy." Personally I would be tempted by Arcane Trickster for access to Shield, but I see the appeal of Assassin too.

Consider Athletics expertise when you pick up your Rogue levels. Having nigh-unstoppable Pushing/Grappling is niche but it's a pretty wide niche with many applications.

The rolls are thanks to us liking heroic characters so we rolled 7 times 4d6 drop lowest, re roll 1's and did that twice and picked the highest row of rolls and dropped the lowest in the row.

Yeah thinking stealth and athletics for the first two expertise and for the other two at lvl 6 rogue prob perception and thieves tools. Prefer assassin to trickster cause I wanted a rather simple yet powerful base for my pc. :)

[Grimstaff]

we rolled 7 times 4d6 drop lowest, re roll 1's and did that twice and picked the highest row of rolls and dropped the lowest in the row.

Why even roll? Not being snarky, just thinking if the objective is superhuman characters, why not just give out a 18/18/16/16/14/14 array?

And yeah, Rogue seems like a smart dip for your character concept.

[Spacehamster]

Why even roll? Not being snarky, just thinking if the objective is superhuman characters, why not just give out a 18/18/16/16/14/14 array?

And yeah, Rogue seems like a smart dip for your character concept.

Simple answer: rolling is fun. :) And even tho this gave really high results on the rolls for everyone at least there were variation. ^^

Next time we start over will prob be pointbuy or just a normal roll 4d6 drop lowest since early levels get quite easy otherwise. :)

[Spacehamster]

So home now and looking through the feats, for the remaining 4 feats I will most likely
pick(no order thought out yet) resilient WIS for a common save and +1 on perception and survival which I have both.
alert, mobile and skilled. Will make me very likely to go first in most combat, make me hard to catch with 40 speed
and cunning action dash and able to do lots of things with skills outside of combat. :)

[coredump]

I would skip most of those.

Wis: take expertise in Perception, that will be plenty of bonus
Mobile: With Cunning Action, you will have plenty of movement, and you are not using the melee attack part of the feat
Skilled: You already pick up another skill via Rogue, do you really need 2 more on top of that?

Alert is a solid choice for an assassin.

Also look at Lucky. Getting those 3 rerolls can be clutch.

[djreynolds]

In the guides section is the Death's Dealers Handbook. It matches up battle master with assassin and in one of the builds ranger. What is a scout sniper? He's a stalker, hunter, tracker, ambusher, scout, etc. He's not just an artillery battery or sentry on the wall. Were talking Ghillie Suit?

Now the creator of that build stats going fighter first for con save. But I recommend going rogue first and maximizing on those ability scores, and grabbing expertise in stealth and perception. Then dip fighter for three, archery style, action surge, and battle-master for precision (make sure you hit), trip, and menacing. Now from there you're 4th grab rogue and become assassin. You'll be 6th level. Next two levels you'll get two ASI. But do you want volley, that is ranger 11. Or are a one shot deal.

I'm going with the later, 12 battle-master and 8 assassin. 4 skills expertise, 3 attacks, uncanny dodge and evasion when you miss and the wizard launches a fireball or they send out the hounds. Stealth, perception, deception (call it camo), and insight (there are anti-sniper snipers out there).

But give me a visual of your concept. A fighter can stealth, but not as well as a rogue, or rogue/ranger with "pass without a trace". Lock it down, your concept. A ranger hunter 12 and assassin 8 or Battle-master 4, assassin 3, 13 hunter.That's a scout to me.

For an artillery battery, eldritch knight is your calling. And there's a guide for that. The guides are good reference point to see what "optimization" is out there, and then merge concept with optimization.

Ranger is a better archer, all around IMO. Yes a fighter can lay it down with four attacks, but ranger is better everywhere else. Hence the scout/sniper.

But your starting at 6th. So grab rogue 1, then 5 battle-master. You were a scout that they turned into a sniper. But 6 ranger is very effective with colossus hunter and hunter's mark. And you can dip fighter for action surge and another fighting style and rogue when feasible for sneak attack. But go rogue 1 early for expertise in stealth and perception.

Love to see the build also in the death dealer's handbook there is a warlock assassin build, check it out.

[Spacehamster]

I would skip most of those.

Wis: take expertise in Perception, that will be plenty of bonus
Mobile: With Cunning Action, you will have plenty of movement, and you are not using the melee attack part of the feat
Skilled: You already pick up another skill via Rogue, do you really need 2 more on top of that?

Alert is a solid choice for an assassin.

Also look at Lucky. Getting those 3 rerolls can be clutch.

Expertise in perception does not make me proficient in wis saves. ;)

Mobile gives me potential 10-30 more movement per turn cunning action just makes mobile even better. :)

3 more skills is always good. :3

[djreynolds]

Assassin will give you auto-crit if you hit. You have the chassis with the fighter already built and sharpshooter and cross-bow expert. Alert is needed to make sure you go first in the attack and maintain surprise. Expertise means you can stealth and perception means you don't miss that sentry. Mobile is okay, but you will have cunning action. You are hit and run and hide. The warlock can give you invisibility, or levitate, or darkness, to aid that surprise or help you hide again. Magic adept will allow you to get that one spell you need for this build.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4149876

This guide has changed my outlook on the fighter as a chassis. There is a warlock, fighter, assassin build. Give it a tweak and you will be killing in no time.

[PoeticDwarf]

So at level 6 atm all levels in champ fighter archery style, variant human with +1DEX, +1CON and stealth prof. One ASI taken as +1 to both those again for maxed stats. Vuman feat sharpshooter and other ASI crossbow expert.

This is the definite pc I will play as other player takes up DM duties next week. Stats are at lvl 6:

STR: 16
DEX: 20
CON: 20
INT: 14
WIS: 17
CHA: 16

Skills: athletics, perception, stealth, survival and acrobatics.

Next two levels will be old one warlock for telepathy, short rest spell slots for hex and Devils sight. Remaining will be assassin for auto crits, expertise, cunning action and sneak attack die and so on. :)

Thoughts on the build and on what feats I should pick are welcome. :)
Because you have crossbow expert, do you go for hand crossobow for three attacks. So you have with hex next level and sharpshooter 6d6+45 damage?

And next to that, you seriously rolled 2 18s, a 17, 2 16s and a 14. Not the highest stats but still very lucky.

[broodax]

Are we still having this argument, even after the clarifications from the designers?

You don't need two hand crossbows to use crossbow expert.

[tieren]

Well since you can't get three attacks with crossbow expert(can't reload two hand crossbows without three hands) since it's designed for a one handed melee weapon and a h-crossbow I will be going for heavy crossbow(which is cooler anyways). :)

Thats not right. You can reload a 2h crossbow, you can't reload 2 x 1h crossbows.

[CNagy]

So at level 6 atm all levels in champ fighter archery style, variant human with +1DEX, +1CON and stealth prof. One ASI taken as +1 to both those again for maxed stats. Vuman feat sharpshooter and other ASI crossbow expert.

This is the definite pc I will play as other player takes up DM duties next week. Stats are at lvl 6:

STR: 16
DEX: 20
CON: 20
INT: 14
WIS: 17
CHA: 16

Skills: athletics, perception, stealth, survival and acrobatics.

Next two levels will be old one warlock for telepathy, short rest spell slots for hex and Devils sight. Remaining will be assassin for auto crits, expertise, cunning action and sneak attack die and so on. :)

Thoughts on the build and on what feats I should pick are welcome. :)

If I may make a suggestion: rather than starting as a Fighter(6) and then spending the next 2 levels taking Warlock, start as a Fighter(4)/Warlock(2). That way, you get to start with most of your Scout/Sniper concept already realized. Crossbow Expert will give you a second attack (as a bonus action), so you aren't behind the normal progression of attacks for a 6th level character. You'll have Hex boosting your damage, darkvision, etc.

Then your next level in Fighter gets you Extra Attack, the level after that an ASI/Feat (Sharpshooter for another boost to damage output.) That's 8 levels, total, so 12 levels of Rogue falls right into the sweet spot. Since you have ASIs to spare, I'd look at the Mage Slayer feat (the higher DC on damage concentration checks can be triggered at range), Resilient Wisdom, Toughness, or frankly whatever catches your eye since you've basically got 4 excess ASIs.

Edit: Crossbow Expert is meant to be used with one crossbow. If you have Extra Attack and Crossbow Expert, you can take 2 attacks with a Heavy Crossbow, or 3 attacks (2 from Attack action, 1 from Bonus action) with a Hand Crossbow. The numbers work much better with Hand Crossbow, but you do kind of go from being a Sniper/Scout character to something more like Medieval SWAT team member.

[Spacehamster]

If I may make a suggestion: rather than starting as a Fighter(6) and then spending the next 2 levels taking Warlock, start as a Fighter(4)/Warlock(2). That way, you get to start with most of your Scout/Sniper concept already realized. Crossbow Expert will give you a second attack (as a bonus action), so you aren't behind the normal progression of attacks for a 6th level character. You'll have Hex boosting your damage, darkvision, etc.

Then your next level in Fighter gets you Extra Attack, the level after that an ASI/Feat (Sharpshooter for another boost to damage output.) That's 8 levels, total, so 12 levels of Rogue falls right into the sweet spot. Since you have ASIs to spare, I'd look at the Mage Slayer feat (the higher DC on damage concentration checks can be triggered at range), Resilient Wisdom, Toughness, or frankly whatever catches your eye since you've basically got 4 excess ASIs.

Edit: Crossbow Expert is meant to be used with one crossbow. If you have Extra Attack and Crossbow Expert, you can take 2 attacks with a Heavy Crossbow, or 3 attacks (2 from Attack action, 1 from Bonus action) with a Hand Crossbow. The numbers work much better with Hand Crossbow, but you do kind of go from being a Sniper/Scout character to something more like Medieval SWAT team member.

Altho valid points I prefer to start out with both feats right away and take all classes levels in a linear way. :)

Now that I got my misunderstanding of crossbow expert sorted I decided I will have both a heavy crossbow for when long range sniping is needed and a hand crossbow for normal dungeon type closer quarters. :)

[djreynolds]

The battle-master has precision, and can really help turns misses into hits, 1d8 extra chance and assassin gives you auto-crit, meaning all damage is now a critical hit. Skulker makes sure you don't lose your stealth on a miss and Alert means you go first, most of the time. And you only need 6 levels of these classes. A lot of the classes have big perks at 11 and 13. Also warlock can achieve two attacks per round.

I'm working on a stealth build myself and I'm interested in your creation, though I don't have the stats I rolled 15,14,14,12,10,6. I was thinking an arcane trickster base for my little fellow as I've never played one.

[Spacehamster]

The battle-master has precision, and can really help turns misses into hits, 1d8 extra chance and assassin gives you auto-crit, meaning all damage is now a critical hit. Skulker makes sure you don't lose your stealth on a miss and Alert means you go first, most of the time. And you only need 6 levels of these classes. A lot of the classes have big perks at 11 and 13. Also warlock can achieve two attacks per round.

I'm working on a stealth build myself and I'm interested in your creation, though I don't have the stats I rolled 15,14,14,12,10,6. I was thinking an arcane trickster base for my little fellow as I've never played one.

All true, picking the champion as a base for the build just cause I want to keep it a simple yet powerful and efficient build. :) only things to decide is who to shoot, should I use hex, cunning action or the bonus attack from crossbow expert. :)

[djreynolds]

Many people have suggested I play a warlock, more spy utility type. But I have never played one. Any advice with the above stats. I gotta thread "Help me stand out in a big party'" I could use the help. I'm leaning rogue, but a trap finding warlock sounds cool for me with a hand crossbow.

[Spacehamster]

Many people have suggested I play a warlock, more spy utility type. But I have never played one. Any advice with the above stats. I gotta thread "Help me stand out in a big party'" I could use the help. I'm leaning rogue, but a trap finding warlock sounds cool for me with a hand crossbow.

If you will not multi class I would not take pure warlock for hand crossbow use, prob rogue or a dex based fighter with a background that gives stealth and thieves tools, would either take stout halfling or wood elf. If elf 10 STR, 14 + 2 DEX, 14 CON, 12 INT, 15 + 1 WIS and 6 CHA. Halfling same but 15 CON + 1 and 14 in WIS instead.

[broodax]

Nope need a melee weapon and a hand crossbow and not going melee so. :)

What on earth are you talking about?

[Spacehamster]

Also just want to make sure I got this right, it's possible to get off two turns of auto crits from assassinate with surprise right? Once during surprise round and once in normal round if you go before enemy does by having higher initiative?

Cause could swore I read that if surprised you are surprised until you have taken your turn.

[djreynolds]

Also just want to make sure I got this right, it's possible to get off two turns of auto crits from assassinate with surprise right? Once during surprise round and once in normal round if you go before enemy does by having higher initiative?

Cause could swore I read that if surprised you are surprised until you have taken your turn.

Yes, but you'll need the Alert feat, for which you have already planned for. You have a very unique build and it rocks. I believe there is no more crazy Jesse James dual hand crossbow sick shooter, but you can dual wield two hand crossbows for the initial hit and have them lanyard, and draw out a melee weapon for your next attack.