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View Full Version : Fractional BAB/Saves... really doesn't make that much difference

rawling
2007-05-11, 07:14 AM
Having just been playing around in HeroForge to make it use fractional BAB/saves, I decided to play around a little mor with spreadsheets to work out how much of a difference it really makes.

Firstly, saves. The only difference fractional saves make is when

(sum of your class levels with Good saves) mod 2 = 1 and
(sum of your class levels with Poor saves) mod 3 = 2

In these cases, you get a +1 bonus on that save compared to the non-fractional save you would get. That's one level in six.

Secondly, BAB. The only difference fractional BAB makes is when

(sum of your class levels with Fair BAB) mod 4 = 1 or 2 and
(sum of your class levels with Poor BAB) mod 2 = 1

In these cases, you get a +1 bonus on your BAB compared to the non-fractional BAB you would get. That's one level in 4.

I was expecting these to make more of a difference... I guess not. :smallconfused:

MORE crazy than this, in my opinion, is that, when multiclassing, you get +2 to a save for every class that has that as a good save, rather than just +2 if you have ONE class that has that as a good save. :smallamused:

Dhavaer
2007-05-11, 07:17 AM
How did you calculate that? How many classes were your example characters taking levels in?

rawling
2007-05-11, 07:27 AM
Aaaah, you're right, I oversimplified. This only takes into account levels of "good" and "poor" saves (ditto for BAB) rather than, say, taking separate levels of classes with "poor" or with "good". :smallfrown:

Glorfindel
2007-05-11, 07:28 AM
An X-level fighter has a base Fortitude save of (X+3)/2, and a base Reflex save of X/3. The fractional part of a good save is therefore 0 or 1/2, and that of a poor save equals either 0, 1/3 or 2/3. The only way two of these fractions can be added to give 1 or more, is 1/2 + 2/3 = 7/6. This happens when you have an even number of levels in the class that has good save progression (for that save), and a number of levels in the other class that, when divided by 3, gives remainder 2.

For example, a Fighter 2 / Rogue 2 has (RAW) a Fortitude save of (+2)+(+0)=(+2), while if fractions are taken into account, (+2 1/2)+(+2/3)=(+3 1/6), so rounded down 1 higher.

Same story for the BAB.

However, this rule applies only to characters with 2 classes; for example, a Ftr 1/Bbn 1/Rog 1 has (RAW) a Will save of +0, while if fractions are used this character has a Will save of +1. However, (s)he doesn't qualify for your rule.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-05-11, 07:45 AM
It certainly makes a difference if your 5th level character has a single level in 5 different poor or fair BAB classes! :smallwink:

No, really. It's not supposed to make a ton of difference except for cases like that.

rawling
2007-05-11, 07:51 AM
I guess, rather than screwing around with adding up fractions, you could simply say:

Instead of adding up individual class BABs (saves), add up your number of good/fair/poor BAB class levels (good/poor save class levels), look THOSE up on one of the relevant class tables and then add those bonuses.
If the total number of each type of level matches those outlined above, add the +1 bonus.

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-11, 09:55 AM
MORE crazy than this, in my opinion, is that, when multiclassing, you get +2 to a save for every class that has that as a good save, rather than just +2 if you have ONE class that has that as a good save. :smallamused:

And really, that's how Prestige Classes like Ur-Priest get broken. It's the primary reason why the only real limiter of entry levels is skills. It also adds to the weakness of a Monk(Why be a Monk and have all good saves, when you can multiclass multiple classes with Monk-esque saves, or just alternate classes with 2 good saves each and totally outsave the Monk?).

Merlin the Tuna
2007-05-11, 09:09 PM
And really, that's how Prestige Classes like Ur-Priest get broken. It's the primary reason why the only real limiter of entry levels is skills. It also adds to the weakness of a Monk(Why be a Monk and have all good saves, when you can multiclass multiple classes with Monk-esque saves, or just alternate classes with 2 good saves each and totally outsave the Monk?).Amen. One of the things I like most about fractional saves (depending on exactly which type of fractional save system you use) is that it tends to not only make your worst saves better, but it makes your best saves stronger. Personally, I find it kind of ugly to see a save spread of +2/+16/+3.