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Milo v3
2015-09-06, 08:31 PM
For use in a Guns are Everywhere setting.

Gunsmith: The gunslinger knows hows to maintain, repair and even create firearms from his years of experience, gaining an insight bonus equal to his class level for crafting firearms and their ammunition. In addition, he can treat the key ability score for such checks to be wisdom rather than intelligence.

Gun Training (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a gunslinger can select one specific type of firearm (such as a revolver). She gains a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when firing that type of firearm. Furthermore, when she misfires with that type of firearm, the misfire value of that firearm increases by 2 instead of 4. Finally, the action required for the gunslinger to load that type of firearm is reduced by one step as per the rapid reload feat. This action reduction stacks with the rapid reload feat if the gunslinger possesses it.

Every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th), the gunslinger picks up another type of firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well.

Alchemy (Su): Gunslingers are trained a small set of alchemical sciencific formulae, allowing them to fashion magical potion-like extracts and special ammunition, in which they can store spell effects. In effect, a gunslinger prepares his spells by mixing ingredients into a number of advanced ammunition extracts, and then “casts” his spells by drinking the extract or shooting the ammunition. When a gunslinger creates advanced ammunition or an extract, he infuses the concoction with a tiny fraction of his own magical power—this enables the creation of powerful effects, but also binds the effects to the creator. A gunslinger can create two special types of magical items—advanced ammunition and extracts.

In many ways, advanced ammunition behave like spells, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the gunslinger's level as the caster level. A gunslinger can create only a certain number of advanced ammunition of each level per day. His base daily allotment of advanced ammunition is the same as a bloodrager. In addition, he receives bonus advanced ammunition per day if he has a high Wisdom score, in the same way a cleric receives bonus spells per day.

When an gunslinger mixes advanced ammunition, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. Advanced ammunition immediately becomes inert if it leaves the gunslinger's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—a gunslinger cannot normally pass out his advanced ammunition for allies to use. Advanced ammunition, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so a gunslinger must re-prepare his advanced ammunition every day. Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work—most gunslingers prepare many advanced ammunition at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for a gunslinger to keep some (or even all) of his daily slots open so that he can prepare advanced ammunition in the field as needed. Advanced ammunition is “cast” by firing it from a firearm—the effects of advanced ammunition exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell gains a bonus to it's attack rolls and DC equal to the enhancement bonus of the firearm being used. A gunslinger can draw, load and fire advanced ammunition as a standard action.

Extracts are the other form of alchemy a gunslinger can perform. Whenever the gunslinger would attempt to create advanced ammunition with a target of one or more creatures he can create it as an extract instead, and if the formulae has a range of personal he must create it as an extract instead. Extracts acts like advanced ammunition in all ways except that extract is “cast” by drinking it—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based. A gunslinger can draw and drink an extract as a standard action.

Although the gunslinger doesn't actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what advanced ammunition and extracts he can create. A gunslinger can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). The gunslinger uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.

Creating advanced ammunition and extracts consumes raw materials, but the cost of these materials is insignificant—comparable to the valueless material components of most spells. If a spell normally has a costly material component, that component is expended during the consumption of that particular extract. Extracts cannot be made from spells that have focus requirements (gunslinger formulae that duplicate divine spells never have a divine focus requirement).

A gunslinger can prepare advanced ammunition and extracts of any formula he knows. To learn or use an formulae, a gunslinger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the formula's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a gunslinger's advanced ammunition is 10 + the formula level + the gunslinger's Dexterity modifier. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a gunslinger's extract is 10 + the formula level + the gunslinger's Wisdom modifier.

A gunslinger is only taught a very limited set of formula, possessing a number of fomulae known equal to the number of spells known by bloodragers of equal level.

Lead Touch (Su): When a 4th level gunslinger uses advanced ammunition with a range of touch, it causes your firearm to hold the charge in the same manner a spellcaster can hold the charge and have it activate as part of a later unarmed attack, except that it is held in your firearm until the next attack you make with that firearm. As long as your firearm holds a charge, it's misfire chance increases by 1. This ability does not work with scattering shot attacks, causing the weapon to simply lose the charged spell as the magic is spread to thin.

Formulae List
1st
Anticipate Peril, Blurred Movement, Break, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Colour Spray, Corrosive Touch, Cure Light Wounds, Disguise Self, Ear-Piercing Scream, Endure Elements, Expeditious Retreat, Flare Burst, Frostbite, Glue Seal, Grease, Heightened Awareness, Hydraulic Push, Magic Missile, Mudball, Phantom Blood, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Sickening, Shocking Grasp, Summon Monster I, Touch of Combustion, Touch of Gracelessness, True Strike, Web Bolt

2nd
Acid Arrow, Animal Aspect, Bear's Endurance, Blindness/Deafness, Blood Armour, Bullet Shield, Cat's Grace, Daze Monster, Delay Pain, Disfiguring Touch, Eagle's Splendour, Elemental Touch, Extreme Flexibility, Fire Breath, Frigid Touch, Ghoul Touch, Glitterdust, Gust of Wind, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility, Shatter, Sonic Scream, Spider Climb, Stone Call, Summon Monster II, Touch of Idiocy.

3rd
Beast Shape I, Blood Scent, Burrow, Countless Eyes, Elemental Aura, Excruciating Deformation, Fireball, Firestream, Flame Arrow, Fly, Force Hook Charge, Force Punch, Greater Animal Aspect, Haste, Hold Person, Hydraulic Torrent, Lightning Bolt, Monstrous Physique I, Oneiric Horror, Pain Strike, Pellet Blast, Protection from Energy, Rage, Ray of Exhaustion, Silver Darts, Sleet Storm, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III, Toxic Gift, Vampiric Touch

4th
Acidic Spray, Beast Shape II, Bestow Curse, Black Tentacles, Confusion, Contagion, Crushing Despair, Dragon's Breath, Elemental Body I, Enervation, Greater False Life, Fire Shield, Lesser Spellcrash, Ice Storm, Mindwipe, Monstrous Physique II, Moonstruck, Purge Spirit, River of Wind, Shout, Stoneskin, Summon Monster IV, Touch of Slime, Volcanic Storm.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-09-09, 07:27 AM
So. You're starting to hit what I usually think of a "tier 3.5"-- you're very good and versatile at killing things, but still don't really have anything going on beyond that. But you don't need that much to bridge the gap, because combat is the most important part of the game to have rules for. Maybe tweak the skill list a bit, boost the points to 6/level and give access to some Rogue Tricks? (Replace Nimble, take a Rogue Trick in place of a bonus feat, a Trick in place of a Deed, something like that). Or maybe some non-combat alchemy, to complete the warrior/rogue/mage trio with the Investigator and Alchemist.

Oh, and give them free Rapid Reload. It absolutely sucks that the class doesn't properly function unless you invest outside resources.

Milo v3
2015-09-09, 09:19 AM
So. You're starting to hit what I usually think of a "tier 3.5"-- you're very good and versatile at killing things, but still don't really have anything going on beyond that. But you don't need that much to bridge the gap, because combat is the most important part of the game to have rules for.
To be honest, I just wanted get them to be tier 4. I simply couldn't think of any out-of-combat stuff... harder than getting out-of-combat options for fighter :smallsigh:


Maybe tweak the skill list a bit, boost the points to 6/level
I don't know, the skills look pretty decent for full bab.


and give access to some Rogue Tricks? (Replace Nimble, take a Rogue Trick in place of a bonus feat, a Trick in place of a Deed, something like that).
I'm not sure how rogue tricks fit the flavour.


Or maybe some non-combat alchemy, to complete the warrior/rogue/mage trio with the Investigator and Alchemist.
What do you have in mind? I added all the spells that could conceivably be fired from a magicgun without it seeming ridiculous, so I don't think formulae would be the answer.


Oh, and give them free Rapid Reload. It absolutely sucks that the class doesn't properly function unless you invest outside resources.
Okay. Done, in a round-about but slightly more flexible way.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-09-09, 01:40 PM
I'm not sure how rogue tricks fit the flavour.

What do you have in mind? I added all the spells that could conceivably be fired from a magicgun without it seeming ridiculous, so I don't think formulae would be the answer.

1. I personally feel like there's a lot of overlap between "gunslinger" and "smooth talking, nimble-fingered Rogue." But that's just me.
2. I'd give them full on alchemy, maybe topping out at 4th or 5th level extracts. Then let the alchemical bullets be a special type of extract. Not only does that give you the missing utility, it meshes more closely with existing material.

Keledrath
2015-09-09, 03:57 PM
Early on in Lead Alchemy, there's a line that refers to extracts
An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the gunslinger's possession

Honestly, this feels like an even bigger dip class than before. In fact, it replaces Fighter as a dip for feat hungry builds. Compare their level 1s
Fighter: Full BAB, d10 HD, crappy skill list, 2 skill points, +2 Fort, Bonus Combat Feat
Gunslinger: Full BAB, d10 HD, decent skill list, 4 skill points, +2 Fort, +2 Ref, Bonus Combat or Grit Feat, Gunsmith, Dex to damage with a ranged weapon, and misfire reduction.

And it still doesn't do a lot to solve the slinger's problems. Every time I hear gunslinger mentioned, no one complains about the lack of damage. In fact, it's the opposite. The thing is, the other class I here about getting silly damage values is magus. And what you've done here is basically given them spellstrike.

this really feels like an attempt to hybridize magus and gunslinger into an alchemy class, which just doesn't feel right.

Milo v3
2015-09-09, 06:35 PM
1. I personally feel like there's a lot of overlap between "gunslinger" and "smooth talking, nimble-fingered Rogue." But that's just me.
2. I'd give them full on alchemy, maybe topping out at 4th or 5th level extracts. Then let the alchemical bullets be a special type of extract. Not only does that give you the missing utility, it meshes more closely with existing material.
1. I'd agree if gunslinger was charisma based. :smalltongue:
2. It would solve the out-of-combat issue, though I'm not sure how I feel having all the cops and soldiers in the setting constantly take performance enhancers. Might have to give them a number of spells known. I'll have to think on this.


Honestly, this feels like an even bigger dip class than before. In fact, it replaces Fighter as a dip for feat hungry builds. Compare their level 1s
Fighter: Full BAB, d10 HD, crappy skill list, 2 skill points, +2 Fort, Bonus Combat Feat
Gunslinger: Full BAB, d10 HD, decent skill list, 4 skill points, +2 Fort, +2 Ref, Bonus Combat or Grit Feat, Gunsmith, Dex to damage with a ranged weapon, and misfire reduction.
hmm... This is actually fine to me since I also buffed up the fighter which ended up making the fighter ridiculously dippable and making it:
Fighter: Full BAB, d10 HD, decent skill list, +4 skill points, +2 all saves, bonus feat, combat stamina, bonus to profession soldier


And it still doesn't do a lot to solve the slinger's problems. Every time I hear gunslinger mentioned, no one complains about the lack of damage. In fact, it's the opposite. The thing is, the other class I here about getting silly damage values is magus. And what you've done here is basically given them spellstrike.

this really feels like an attempt to hybridize magus and gunslinger into an alchemy class, which just doesn't feel right.
Well, it's a lot slower than spellstrike since it takes two turns to do. But the main reason I added it was simply so there are more than three spells per level on it's formulae list. Still, its not like all the spells are simple deal damage one guy spells. There are debuffs, aoe's and a few other things like force hook charge and glueseal.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-09-09, 07:31 PM
1. I'd agree if gunslinger was charisma based. :smalltongue:
Which it should be. But I digress.


2. It would solve the out-of-combat issue, though I'm not sure how I feel having all the cops and soldiers in the setting constantly take performance enhancers. I'll have to think on this.
Why not? It's a mage's world, and we just live in it. Makes sense to up your game with magic whenever possible. Besides, you're already giving them magic bullets; might as well give them potions, too. (Or fluff it as special cocktails. That was my plan for a Gunslinger/Mutagen Fighter I never wound up playing). If you're concerned, you can always make the magic kick in at 4th level, like the other 4th level casters do. That way only elite guards have magic.


hmm... This is actually fine to me since I also buffed up the fighter which ended up making the fighter ridiculously dippable and making it:
Fighter: Full BAB, d10 HD, decent skill list, +4 skill points, +2 all saves, bonus feat, combat stamina, bonus to profession soldier
I'd drop the first level bonus feat, or have it explicitly be Rapid Reload. Or give the ability to rapidly reload firearms as part of Gun Training.

Milo v3
2015-09-13, 02:11 AM
Okay, modified to give them extracts. Though it's rather limited.