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View Full Version : Low magic campaign mods (help?) [Ice and Fire campaign II]



Drudwyn
2007-05-14, 10:01 AM
I'm starting up a homebrew world based on the "Songs of Ice and Fire" series. Thanks to a previous post, someone here alerted me to a d20 game already based on the series, but after looking at it, I'd rather apply some mods to the basic D&D ruleset to keep things simple for me (though there are some very cool things about house alignment and regional skills/feats that I'll keep). After looking through some suggestions on Wizards and elsewhere, here is what I'm planning (can you tell me how it looks?):

1) Loot: I'm only going to award 1/2 treasure per encounter and no magic items generally. Magic items will be rare and never for sale. The PCs probably won't encounter any for several levels.

2) MW arms and armor: To make up for the above, Masterwork weapons and armor with enhancements greater than +1 will be available, for half the price of their magical counterparts (does this make sense?).

2) Encounters: I'm going to adjust the CR +1 for magic monsters, and they won't encounter any for the first several levels.

3) Races: I'm only allowing humans, half elves, dwarves, gnomes and halflings (all have to able to pass themselves off as funny-looking people because of the rarity of their races, who are largely withdrawn/in hiding). Later in the campaign (and once they've encountered them) I will allow characters to come back as elves or half-orcs if they wish.

4) Classes (the hard part): Core classes only, with mods as follows

For sorcerors and wizards, I'm going to ask that players first take three levels of "Scholar" first, basically a skill-heavy class *Edit* (per suggesions below, I'm thinking 10+int skills per level and a couple of bonus feats but class skills focused on less combat-oriented skills like Knowledges, perhaps Use Magic Item, too) with light weapon proficiency. At fourth level, when they take a magic level, I'm going to automatically award them the "Practiced Spellcaster" feat, to give them a CL of 4 but spell access, etc. unchanged.

For Druids, I'm going to require that they take three levels of Ranger first.

Clerics -- will only have access to healing and turn undead until fourth level. At fourth level, they return to their normal capabilities.

Palladins : I'm thinking no pallys for this campaign, but I might change my mind. Any thoughts how they would fit into a low magic/more realistic campaign?

Monks, Fighters, and Barbarians: unchanged.

5) Spells and feats: players will have to find one of the rare resource libraries to learn new spells or unusual feats and I'll be carefully selecting them (any advice which ones to watch out for?).

6) Story progression: Basically, magic will be the stuff of legend early in the campaign, and the healing powers of the clerics will be ascribed to powerful leechcraft. At fourth level, something changes in the world (beyond their knowledge) and magic starts to infuse the land. The characters will start to access it, and they'll begin to encounter other magic wielders and eventually, supernatural monsters.

How do these rules look? Would you want to play in a campaign set up like this? I'll be DMing for the first time, and I'll have a mix of newbies and some RPG afficionadoes who lean more toward d20 modern and Cthulu-style games (don't like straight fantasy as much) so I'm trying to make it gritty as well as straightforward for me to operate. Any and all tips very welcome.

Bosh
2007-05-14, 10:27 AM
take a look at the AFoIaF 2d20 RPG. Its very low magic and seems quite good.

pjackson
2007-05-14, 10:35 AM
4) Classes (the hard part): Core classes only, with mods as follows

For sorcerors and wizards, I'm going to ask that players first take three levels of "scholar" first, basically a skill-heavy class (I'm thinking 6-8+int skills per level) with light weapon proficiency. At the end of this progression, when they become magic-wielders, I'm going to automatically award them the "Practiced Spellcaster" feat, to give them a CL of 4 but spell access, etc. unchanged.


You are right this will be hard to do.
Are you starting at first level?
What are the player's of these scholars supposed to doing for the first 3 levels?
Why are scholars adventuring?
For a skill class with no special abilities there is the Expert class - 10+Int skills points per level and it is a NPC class.



For Druids, I'm going to require that they take three levels of Ranger first.

Clerics -- will only have access to healing until fourth level (no buffs, turning undead, etc.), at fourth level, they return to their normal capabilities.


Why disallow turn undead?
Since it is a low magic campaign undead are presumable rare, so the opportunity to use the ability will rarely come up anyway.
Do you think that being a second class fighter and band aid machine is likely to appeal to players?



Palladins : I'm thinking no pallys for this campaign, but I might change my mind. Any thoughts how they would fit into a low magic/more realistic campaign?


Options for paladins without spells (and rangers) is in one of the books, but I can't recall which at the moment.



Monks, Fighters, and Barbarians: unchanged.


Fighters may be (even more) underpowered at higher levels without access to many magical devices.



5) Spells and feats: players will have to find one of the rare resource libraries to learn new spells or unusual feats and I'll be carefully selecting them (any advice which ones to watch out for?).

6) Story progression: Basically, magic will be the stuff of legend early in the campaign, and the healing powers of the clerics will be ascribed to powerful leechcraft. At fourth level, something changes in the world (beyond their knowledge) and magic starts to infuse the land. The characters will start to access it, and they'll begin to encounter other magic wielders and eventually, supernatural monsters.


May be it would just be better to just say you can't start as magic using characters, but you may find ways to learn magic as the game progresses.
Perhaps add a scholar class - like the expert NPC class but with a bonus feats each level, for those who want to play someone who is determined to investigate and learn magic.

Drudwyn
2007-05-14, 11:18 AM
Are you starting at first level? .

Yes.


What are the player's of these scholars supposed to doing for the first 3 levels?
Why are scholars adventuring?
For a skill class with no special abilities there is the Expert class - 10+Int skills points per level and it is a NPC class..

A very good idea -- and I think I'll pick up the bonus feats suggestion from the end of your post as well. Fixed this above.

As far as why Scholars are adventuring -- I was thinking there would be a "journeyman" stage for scholars in this world, requiring them to travel around and collect info from far-flung resources. The scholars in my campaign would have a focus on magic (knowledge arcana, the planes, etc.).



Why disallow turn undead?
Since it is a low magic campaign undead are presumable rare, so the opportunity to use the ability will rarely come up anyway.
Do you think that being a second class fighter and band aid machine is likely to appeal to players? ..

Another great point. I'll fix this above.


Fighters may be (even more) underpowered at higher levels without access to many magical devices.

Another good point -- I was thinking I'd provide magic weapons around 5-6 level, just as the magic wielders begin to come into their own. But do you have any other suggestions?


May be it would just be better to just say you can't start as magic using characters, but you may find ways to learn magic as the game progresses.


I think I'll still need clerics, though -- healing is not something they'll be able to find in the nearest city, much less town. Otherwise, I think this is what I'm going to do with the Scholar class and the req. that Druids take Ranger levels first.

***THANK YOU****

ZeroNumerous
2007-05-14, 11:32 AM
Rather than completely tear apart spellcasters.. Why not just move their spell progression down three levels, ALA Paladin or Ranger?

Some base classes actually gain special abilities through out their 20 levels, and to force them to take 3 levels of something else really hurts.

As for suggestions for fixing fighter.. Why not change the enchantment for weapons and armor to Masterworking? Same cost, but it's a mundane enhancement instead of magical. If you still want them to be able to get their weapon "magicked", then you could easily add the weapon enhancements by giving them a base price.

IE: A +2 Longsword wouldn't be magical and would only cost 8000 gold. A +2 Holy Longsword would be 16,000(+2 + Holy).

Tormsskull
2007-05-16, 07:37 AM
Some base classes actually gain special abilities through out their 20 levels, and to force them to take 3 levels of something else really hurts.


I disagree here. It only really hurts if the players are trying to compare this customized system to normal D&D. If the DM sticks with his new system so that no one (PCs or NPCs) are able to take 20 levels of a full casting class, then it will be fine.

Also, as a big fan of ASoIaF, I would ask that you consider not injecting magic into the campaign. Part of what makes the campaign world great is the lack of magic. I have not checked out the world-specific campaign book but you could always buff the non-magic classes up by borrowing some ideas from the Iron Heroes campaign setting or from the Wheel of Time campaign setting.

Good luck on whichever way you decide to go.

Somebloke
2007-05-16, 01:01 PM
I've re-written the three central magic classes to suit my campaign. I've got the Inspired (priests or revolutionaries, with bardic music abilities and vows that function like the tatooed monk) Arcane Scholars (can create some 'alchemical items', gain lots of skill points, obscure lore and a selection of skill-based class abilities) and Prophecies (sorcerers using a very modified warlock system- more Sadako out of Ringu than Cyclops out of X-men). The low levels of magic (except for the Prophecy, who only gets a limited selection) means that the spellcasters aren't overpowered compared to the rest of the party, and I know exactly what they are capable of. The rest of the classes are either gone or powered down (rangers gain terrain bonuses instead) and the paladin is replaced with the swashbuckler anyway.

Finally, I used a modified masterwork item system and a modified alchemy system, used action points and racial feats, got rid of humanoids and stole some non-magical classes from the Conan campaign (good source, that).

It took a LOT of work, mind...

Matthew
2007-05-20, 07:11 PM
There is the Arcane Scholar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28033&page=4) Homebrew Base Class; I think you should check into that. In fact, the whole Thread is worth your consideration. There are a number of other ones in the Homebrew forum, I think.