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puppyavenger
2007-05-15, 06:32 AM
I was just wondering, since every campagn world I've seen seems to have humans in a position of strength. What do you think of a worl where humans do not exist, never have existed, never will exist and there are no races that are the exact same as them?

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-15, 07:13 AM
I had a campaign once were there was only 1 human in the entire world and you had to make a San' check when you saw him.

Tormsskull
2007-05-15, 02:14 PM
I was just wondering, since every campagn world I've seen seems to have humans in a position of strength. What do you think of a worl where humans do not exist, never have existed, never will exist and there are no races that are the exact same as them?

It could be done, but I think you'd have a difficult time de-humanizing your typical fantasy setting. Unless you make another race that basically takes the place of humans.

In my own campaign world humans are the newcomers, they only inhabit a small chunk of the continent, and generally all of the other races dislike them.

But, if you want a real challenge, make a campaign where you offer various races, none of them being human or humanoid, and then I'll be impressed :smallsmile:

sigurd
2007-05-15, 02:29 PM
It might be exciting to make humans a hunted minority.

Other races just reproduce faster and thats the outlook for the future as well...

Goblins, Orcs, Kobolds etc..... Pick a dominant race and make the humans bend and scrape for a scrap of crappy land.


Sigurd

Dr._Weird
2007-05-15, 02:42 PM
I dunno, if I think about it it just doesn't seem a good idea. Humans are the one "normal" type- I.E. there are so many stereotypes about the other species (Dwarves always love alcoholic drinks and have huge nasty beards, elves are always aloof and beautiful and magical, etc.) that when you want to make a normal NPC, you couldn't really do it without humans.

Examples-

OMG ur loyer haev pointy ears olol

dwarf gonna stele beer frm me >______________>

(Chatspeak and bad spelling added for dramatic effect. :smallwink: )

Pepz
2007-05-15, 03:06 PM
I actually have been thinking quite a bit about this kind of campaign...and never really know what kind of implications this would have on the gaming world.
Because realistically, most fantasy is based upon races being different than humans ie, elves taller,leaner,live longer: dwarves shorter,grumpier,facial hair, live longer: kobolds, shorter, reproduce faster,live shorter lives.....
and to take away the middle would quite unbalance the world as is.....mostly because it's almost impossible for humans to imagine a world without humans :)

I always loved the idea about the humans being "new" tho :) in lot's of fantasy, the humans are the race that has come on the world last, but usually the campaign in played in a time when the humans are settled and a mayor force :) Imagine a campaign where your god/a mayor travelling incident/a warphole has gotten you in the middle between all races, and you need to find a place to live :) I would love to play that tbh :) needs a lot of diplomacy, a bit of fighting and I guess some carpentering if you want to live in something else than a tree house :P

Hazkali
2007-05-15, 04:14 PM
In my current campaign humans are the slaves of an Orc empire similar to the Mongols (who interestingly enough actually outlawed slavery).

I don't think this truly counts but messing with the basic "all human" premise can be done. Just expect that there'll be a lot of broken stereotypes. In order to retain verisimillitude, Orcs in my world have to be more than the "graagh" chaotic evil enemies in most games- so I've had to design an Orc culture, which in a way humanises them more.

Similarly, a world dominated by Dwarves couldn't exist entirely as tacticurn warriors, smiths and drunkards. Dwarves would need to farm and they'd need to harvest lumber, which means leaving their mountain halls. If there were more of them, their culture might be less community-centred, and may be undergoing the same sort of transitions the western world has undergone in the last century.

However, what you need to do is to somehow make the dominant race not just a scaly/short/blue version of humans. By this I don't mean purely game mechanics but thematically. If dwarves have taken over the role of humans to a point where every dwarf could be substituted for a human, then there's something wrong.

TheThan
2007-05-15, 04:32 PM
I got the idea to run an all elf campaign, where the only player races allowed are standard elves and sub-races of elves. But it hasnít seen the light of day yet, as Iíve got more interesting things to right now.

PirateMonk
2007-05-15, 05:17 PM
Similarly, a world dominated by Dwarves couldn't exist entirely as tacticurn warriors, smiths and drunkards. Dwarves would need to farm and they'd need to harvest lumber, which means leaving their mountain halls.

According to one book (albeit from GURPS), that's what gnomes are for.

EvilElitest
2007-05-15, 05:22 PM
When i first read the hobbit, i was startled out of my mind when it turned out humans were in the story

But on a second note, making humans obslete just makes the cultures more deverse

I normally play humans as the most knew race
from,
EE

Tengu
2007-05-15, 05:33 PM
In Earthdawn, humans are the third in population race in Barsaive (the land where the games are played on default) - the first two are dwarves and orcs. This game has all of the "ordinary" fantasy races much different that the archetypes (or at least slightly different) though, and many that don't appear in other games.

my_evil_twin
2007-05-15, 06:20 PM
The Silmarillion depicts a pre-human fantasy world.

A world without humans probably wouldn't look much different from your generic D&D setting. The fantasy races are essentially different facets of humanity's diversity, so just about anything that humans do could also get done by some other race.

The only thing that really distinguishes humans in the D&D universe is their ability to learn or adapt. We might assume that the other races are less inventive, and so the world would be more static. But then D&D already lends itself to fairly static worlds, relative to real-life history.

Machete
2007-05-16, 10:06 AM
I would really get into a no-human game. Replace them with powered-down Catfolk or something maybe. Throw in some Native American flavor or Aztec flavor. Niiice?

Roderick_BR
2007-05-16, 10:34 AM
Could work. Would be like a exotic campaign where you never visit human cities, only nations of other races.
Chances are that without humans nosing everyone's business, most race cities would be more xenophobe, though.

JackMage666
2007-05-16, 11:38 AM
Chances are that without humans nosing everyone's business, most race cities would be more xenophobe, though.

Arn't they already, even with humans?

I'd have a hard time cutting humans out of the cmapaign world. Other than the obvious racial difference, my players would have a hard time roleplaying things of a different race (not that they don't try, but it's nice to be able to fall back on human for a race).

mikeejimbo
2007-05-16, 01:25 PM
Similarly, but also completely opposite, is the idea of a campaign with ONLY humans. That seems like it'd be easier, though.

A campaign without humans could be done too, though, and shouldn't be too hard in my opinion. But like many others on this thread, I think a world where humans are insignificant would be more interesting. Like David Brin's Uplift universe, but with a fantasy slant.

Pepz
2007-05-17, 05:21 AM
Similarly, but also completely opposite, is the idea of a campaign with ONLY humans. That seems like it'd be easier, though.

as I read it, I just thought " that would be really boring " :) just imagine fighting against humans from lvl1 till lvl20, never seeing anything else....sure there's be different groups, all sorts of classes that kind of thing, but once in a while you just want to kill an orc ;) or as dm, throw in a rustmonster once in a while :P

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-17, 05:35 AM
as I read it, I just thought " that would be really boring " :) just imagine fighting against humans from lvl1 till lvl20, never seeing anything else....sure there's be different groups, all sorts of classes that kind of thing, but once in a while you just want to kill an orc ;) or as dm, throw in a rustmonster once in a while :P

Well, only humans as player races (and probably the only humanoid) doesn't rule out Golems, or Rust Monsters but animals would be an obvious alternate foe. There are so many monsters in DnD that it would be nice to give animals a time to shine.

I've played campaigns without humans and campaigns with humans and the differance is limited. Might want to blame that on the DM for making both City campaigns though.

belboz
2007-05-18, 05:21 PM
I, too, don't think it would be particularly hard or bad.

I've also got a favorite set of fantasy novels where humans exist but are not in a position of strength (in my case, Brusts' Jhereg and its prequels/sequels...yeah, OK, there is a part of the world where humans are the dominant race, but it's never where the novels are set) and am, when I think about it, surprised that there aren't more of those campaigns.

It's also interesting that human-free fantasy novels are so rare. The Silmarillion...isn't exactly a novel, in the traditional sense.

Roderick_BR
2007-05-18, 07:26 PM
Arn't they already, even with humans?

I'd have a hard time cutting humans out of the cmapaign world. Other than the obvious racial difference, my players would have a hard time roleplaying things of a different race (not that they don't try, but it's nice to be able to fall back on human for a race).
Exactly. Without humans running around, getting into confusion, and making enemies/friends/allies with other races, most races wouldn't meet each other, except in war times. Take elves and dwarves for example. Each race is happy where they are. Then humans start to make cities nearby their florets and mountains, getting a bit too close. Human expedition teams explore to look for others cultures to make trades and exchange knowledge. Before you know it, human cities are flowing with several races, and these races will start visiting other cities following the human's example, looking for more things to expand their own cultures/riches.
Thing is, in most worlds, some races are confortable as they are, but human nature is to explore.

Ah, if your group can play well others races and cultures, it wouldn't be much of a problem to play without going into human countries.