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GnomishPride
2015-09-20, 03:56 PM
One of my biggest problems with D&D (not that there are many problems) is how Energy Drain works. It has to do a lot with how levels work. Sorry if I start to rant a little bit.

Option 1: Energy Drain steals levels. This is how it works mechanically, but makes little sense. After all, levels are just increments of power based on accumulation of experience, so unless you lose your memories somehow, I doubt you can lose your levels.

Option 2: Energy Drain steals life energy. This is how it works thematically, but still makes little sense. The spell sucks away your life force, causing you to become weaker (or so I assume), but wouldn't that just make you take damage? Levels are a reflection of experience, as I stated above, so there shouldn't be a link between life force (what ED thematically takes) and levels (what ED mechanically takes). Experience does not equal life force (unless you're a god, I guess).

In addition to how little ED makes sense, it also is a big pain the butt. You have to spend time regaining those lost levels, which is annoying because you already earned those levels! And now you have to get them all over again. The same holds true for other things that cause level loss, primarily Raise Dead/Resurrection. It doesn't make sense (your death causes you to lose experience somehow?) and it's a big hassle to recover. (Though I guess it means a cost for dying... which should be reflected in some other way, like a temporary stat debuff or maybe a material component (oh wait...))

Anyway, I don't like the whole concept of level loss in D&D. I'd appreciate some thoughts on how it works, so that I can make a little more sense of why it is even a thing.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-20, 04:20 PM
One of my biggest problems with D&D (not that there are many problems) is how Energy Drain works. It has to do a lot with how levels work. Sorry if I start to rant a little bit.

Option 1: Energy Drain steals levels. This is how it works mechanically, but makes little sense. After all, levels are just increments of power based on accumulation of experience, so unless you lose your memories somehow, I doubt you can lose your levels.

Option 2: Energy Drain steals life energy. This is how it works thematically, but still makes little sense. The spell sucks away your life force, causing you to become weaker (or so I assume), but wouldn't that just make you take damage? Levels are a reflection of experience, as I stated above, so there shouldn't be a link between life force (what ED thematically takes) and levels (what ED mechanically takes). Experience does not equal life force (unless you're a god, I guess).

In addition to how little ED makes sense, it also is a big pain the butt. You have to spend time regaining those lost levels, which is annoying because you already earned those levels! And now you have to get them all over again. The same holds true for other things that cause level loss, primarily Raise Dead/Resurrection. It doesn't make sense (your death causes you to lose experience somehow?) and it's a big hassle to recover. (Though I guess it means a cost for dying... which should be reflected in some other way, like a temporary stat debuff or maybe a material component (oh wait...))

Anyway, I don't like the whole concept of level loss in D&D. I'd appreciate some thoughts on how it works, so that I can make a little more sense of why it is even a thing.

Somebody lost a level or two recently, didn't they?

So, Energy Drain is sort of like...mildly killing a mother****er. You're not immediately murdering them, but the candle that is their life burns a little less bright. You're suppressing the target's life force, the quintessential well of power and agency from which they draw capability. It doesn't matter if you remember being stronger, this spell stifles the very essence of the self. Energy draining might even permanently carve a little bit out of your soul.

It's a potent, debilitating debuff that's useful both short and long term on either side of the screen, and using it as a PC is awesome.

Kelb_Panthera
2015-09-20, 06:38 PM
Energy Drain is a disruption of the soul itself. Consequently, it weakens both life force and scrambles experience. This disruption sometimes causes a permanent loss in the form of mechanical level reduction.

As for regaining it being "a pain" you were going to continue adventuring anyway. It's not like you have to go on a side-quest or anything and (unless they changed it) being behind in level means you get more exp than your allies who weren't level drained so it's not as difficult to regain as it was to gain in the first place.

Level loss from death is supposed to disincentivise dying when the monetary cost isn't necessarily a big deal. It's a raising of the stakes when you could otherwise be completely reckless until you're broke. Luck plays its role but most character death is a result of poor strategic and tactical decisions (with the occasional, heroic martyrdom) and the potential of a lost level incentivises caution. Though, again, regaining the lost level and catching back up with your allies is only a matter of time anyway.

It's certainly unpleasant but it's not a huge thing all-in-all.

LadyFoxfire
2015-09-20, 08:10 PM
There are some versions of D&D where being raised lowers your constitution, instead of (or in addition to) losing a level.

In Pathfinder being resurrected doesn't cause you to lose a level, but my bard is still a level behind the party because they got xp for the dragon that killed me, and then got more xp on the way back to town to buy the components. Don't fail a saving throw vs Destruction, kids.

Mastikator
2015-09-20, 08:43 PM
The way I imagine how this life force/life energy/whatever is supposed to be visualized is as a liquid in a bottle. Magic spells and supernatural abilities that "drain energy" simply siphon some of the liquid, like a mosquito will siphon off your blood.

In settings where the undead function off a "negative energy" it's basically a different liquid in their bottle, and they have the ability to convert positive into negative when they steal it, which is why wights can steal the life force of living beings, but still be healed by harm and hurt by heal. If they didn't convert it when they stole it they would be hurt by it tool.