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Ryunosuke
2015-10-06, 04:41 PM
If Wizards do all the fancy hand movements and junk and fancy spell components because all of their magical power is learned and studied, and Sorcerers are supposed to be naturally gifted with raw magical power, then would it not make a little sense to reflect this in game?

It's well known Wizards are top tier, even in a non optimized spell list selection so what about a little something to make Sorcerers a bit more flavorful and more useful is certain situations?

The idea is to remove any verbal components and any material components that a simple component pouch supplies to any spell a Sorcerer casts, possibly even remove the somatic since honestly I never really envisioned it to make sense for someone that just has magic flowing in their body naturally would require any sort of fancy incantations or hand gestures to use it.

This would in theory allow Sorcerers to cast magic in silence zones when the wizard could not, cast spells when disarmed of even spell components and even technically make use of some armors (even though mid level magic typically can provide far better defenses without denting their income)

Thoughts?

Solaris
2015-10-07, 09:35 PM
I know giving sorcerers Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level is a common house-rule. I've honestly ignored material components a lot of the time for both classes, and it hasn't really impacted the game much.
I also don't know of many ways that a free Silent Spell could be really exploited. The benefit is highly situational and rather minor.

Mages not wearing armor is something of a sacred cow in D&D. I'd say letting them freely cast spells in light armor would probably be okay, but I'm leery about anything heavier than that.

I've mostly just fluffed it that sorcerers still used verbal and somatic components, but theirs are different from wizards and unique to each sorcerer (albeit with some similarities, because there's only so many ways to skin a cat). The wizard's gestures might be more regimented and the wording more flowery, while the sorcerer's are fluid and the phrasing more prosaic, but they're both waggling their hands and speaking Draconic.

Ryunosuke
2015-10-08, 09:02 AM
I suppose you've a point on the free silence but still it just makes sense to me, especially in the case of dragons who I doubt are going to be waving claws about or the like and I never picture them saying anything to use magic. Though if I were to give a more tangible buff then yes, light armor without spell failure would be fine by me, maybe even a d6 hit die depending on the campaign itself.

nonsi
2015-10-09, 05:59 AM
.
Comparing the Sorc. to the other big 3, I see 3 equally valid options:

HD: d6
Casting in light armor
4th - Still Spell no prolonged casting time
7th - Silent Spell no prolonged casting time
15th - Quicken Spell no prolonged casting time

Or

Gain a bonus feat (same as Wiz) at each level divisible by 4 using those specific bonus feats for metamagic, the Sorc. doesn't suffer the usual casting-time penalty.

Or

Gain one extra spell known per SL, plus use Int-bonus to determine extra known spells.


All would gain Eschew Materials at 1st.


And yet... the other big 3 are still better choices.

Ryunosuke
2015-10-09, 09:03 AM
When you say 'big 3' I assume you are referring to Wizard, Cleric, and Druid? Because I at least want them to match a wizard. Matching a tanker divine caster (especially druid with everything they get) is not something I find many classes can do. However I do like those ideas as alternate buffs. I personally feel like using a spell point variant for just them (with a fixed amount of spell points as opposed to the meager sum the unearthed arcana gives them) would skyrocket the sorcerers, spell spamming potential.

nonsi
2015-10-11, 10:26 PM
When you say 'big 3' I assume you are referring to Wizard, Cleric, and Druid?


That's right.




Because I at least want them to match a wizard. Matching a tanker divine caster (especially druid with everything they get) is not something I find many classes can do.


Actually, the Druid can be toned down a bit. There are several options of accomplishing that.





I personally feel like using a spell point variant for just them (with a fixed amount of spell points as opposed to the meager sum the unearthed arcana gives them) would skyrocket the sorcerers, spell spamming potential.


I think you're aiming the wrong way.
The Sorcerer's problem was never with spell output.
The Sorcerer suffers from a narrow spell repertoire and inferior action economy.

Now that I think of it, I'd merge my first two suggestions as follows:

HD: d6
Casting in light armor
4th - Still Spell no prolonged casting time
8th - Silent Spell no prolonged casting time
12th Subtle Spell you completely eschew the verbal and somatic components of all spells cast w/o modifying their effective SL.
16th Eschew Focus you no longer need to use spell foci, except in special cases where a spell focus is consumed by the spellcasting.
20th Living Spell Rod you may cast a certain daily amount זof SLs from within A-M or dead magic zone.

The idea is to make it ever more difficult to take a sorcerer out of the equation.
These features also make it worth while to stay in the class for the long run.
If you really wish to push the class forward, combing the above with my suggestion to use Int-bonus to determine extra known spells. Anything further that this would be an abuse.

Ryunosuke
2015-10-12, 09:04 AM
I actually really like that setup, especially the ability to bypass an anti-magic field with a few spells at high levels. One thing I'm lost at is your insistence that they be changed to use Intel. Is it because of Gray Elves and other intel boosting races that have no LA? (no standard race has a charisma boost)

nonsi
2015-10-12, 12:15 PM
I actually really like that setup, especially the ability to bypass an anti-magic field with a few spells at high levels. One thing I'm lost at is your insistence that they be changed to use Intel. Is it because of Gray Elves and other intel boosting races that have no LA? (no standard race has a charisma boost)

Int just seems the most appropriate to represent expended knowledge to me. I could go for Cha, but the class is SAD enough as it is, and it already provides extra spell slots (everybody needs Con, so that one doesn't really count). Also, with 2 skill-points per level, high Int would give a character stuff to do even w/o spamming spells.

Ryunosuke
2015-10-12, 04:04 PM
Well I can't imagine them doing much with all the more 'useful' things being cross class for them but I suppose there is some merit to that logic at least.

nonsi
2015-10-12, 04:20 PM
Well I can't imagine them doing much with all the more 'useful' things being cross class for them but I suppose there is some merit to that logic at least.

It suddenly occurred to my that it would be wiser to position the suggested abilities at odd levels, say 3rd/7th/11th/15th - effectively lowering them by one level. Living Spell Rod could go down to 19th and could remain as capstone.